(Gen 3) GC Research Thread (Colosseum/XD)

[Lightsabre]

I don't have an AR for my GBA and I didn't go to the event so I guess I'm stuck just going through the game bilions of times :/ is there something I can do in the mean time? for research

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat Lightsabre

I don't have an AR for my GBA and I didn't go to the event so I guess I'm stuck just going through the game bilions of times :/ is there something I can do in the mean time? for research

Damage calcs. See if the IVs of non-shadow Pokemon you're battling really have all 0 IVs, as they seem to be, from my results, as well as if they're always the same nature for a trainer's non-shadow Pokemon, again, as they seem to be.

[skyfox500]

Does anyone know if Synchronizing natures works in Pokemon XD?

And if so, just wild pokemon (most likely) , or if it works on shadow pokemon too?

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat skyfox500

Does anyone know if Synchronizing natures works in Pokemon XD?

And if so, just wild pokemon (most likely) , or if it works on shadow pokemon too?

Coming before Emerald, Synchronizing does *not* work.

[skyfox500]

Thank you. I didn't know whether XD came before or after emerald.

[Wild Eep*]

I recently made a Mt. Battle run in Battle Mode, and it seems that the opponents have 0 IVs and EVs as well as random natures. So if you want to EV for speed to outspeed certain foes, you'll need less training for Mt. Battle than in a real competitive environment.

[peachy243]

Hi Loark i have sometime to kill and have sent you a pm so let me know if i can help your research

[peachy243]

Hi, after restarting game and trying for a while got an sassy umbreon with 0 speed (after checking with metalkids iv) , i like trick room teams so will use it after to breed etc for d/p/platinum. So let me know if this will be useful to test speeds with as i continue playing through the game. I will follow an ev guide i found on serebii to ensure umbreon gets no evs for speed ( ie had to kill umbreon in first battle as two zigazoons give out speed evs). Umbreon has 63 speed at level 50 and 121 speed at level 100

[Lorak]

Well, I've just about confirmed the non-shadow Pokemon's 0 IVs in all stats, thanks to damage calcs done during my Battle Mode Mt. Battle vs. 100 challenge I did yesterday.

I wish we had someone here who could figure out how nature and IVs are determined by the game, and why they don't match the PIDs of the portable games.

[Arseus]

Well, this is what we know so far, concerning the Colosseum/XD RNG:

Originally Posted by Fat goldursaring

As I said in Colosseum, it's not the same as GBA.

Pokemon are created by a random numerical equation that determines the IVs/Natures/Gender/Shininess.

This game is using a modified version of what is normally used to create Pokemon. It's the reason why Pokemon with two abilities can randomly change abilities upon evolution on the DS or GBA, even if they previously had access to the ability in the third generation (like Tri Attack Togepi that change from Serene Grace to Hustle). Colosseum and XD run the same way.

At the start of the game, 3 random numbers are generated that play a role in creating the IVs/PIDs for all Pokemon you catch. The impact of these numbers isn't dramatic but it can play a serious role.

The formula that generates the Pokemon is different from all other games, which tend to have a balanced output. The modifications make this formula favor certain numbers (and by coincidence put a strain on generating most shinies).

Originally Posted by Fat yamipoli

From what is known about col/XD pokemon is that they are based on numbers generated on the file (it DOES NOT restart apon making a new game, you will have to erase the file from the gamecube menu in order to get a new number set), plus a strange RNG. It also xors one pair of your numbers by a number too high to produce a shiny pokemon, meaning that for some people, they will never get a shiny that is produced by that number!

Also, sorry I haven't been able to capture more Lugia, but as I suspected, I've been quite busy!

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat Arseus

Well, this is what we know so far, concerning the Colosseum/XD RNG:

Well, that's quite useful. Do you think we could learn how this equation is modified, or would we have to delve into the game's coding to have any chance of this?

Originally Posted by Fat Arseus

Also, sorry I haven't been able to capture more Lugia, but as I suspected, I've been quite busy!

No worries, business before pleasure!

[Wichu]

Originally Posted by Fat Lorak

It also seems, though I'm not 100% positive, that through over 400 tests, the Mew tutor did not select two or more XD-exclusive Mew tutor moves to generate for a moveset. This does not apply to tutored moves learned in XD (Self-Destruct, Sky Attack, etc.), where one or more could be found on the movesets; rather, it is for things such as Hypnosis and Zap Cannon.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the move tutor selects from a list of sets, not individual moves. For example, when I was trying to teach my event Mew Hypnosis, he offered to teach it Mega Punch/Ice Punch/ThunderPunch/Fire Punch.
I think I came across Hypnosis twice, once with Dream Eater, and once with Nightmare (I'm not sure on the Dream Eater one, but I can confirm that I decided on Hypnosis/Nightmare/Swagger/Protect). Nightmare was directly after Hypnosis, too.
I really doubt that those sets are a coincidence (come on, the 'classic' four punches on one set?).

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the move tutor selects from a list of sets, not individual moves. For example, when I was trying to teach my event Mew Hypnosis, he offered to teach it Mega Punch/Ice Punch/ThunderPunch/Fire Punch.
I think I came across Hypnosis twice, once with Dream Eater, and once with Nightmare (I'm not sure on the Dream Eater one, but I can confirm that I decided on Hypnosis/Nightmare/Swagger/Protect). Nightmare was directly after Hypnosis, too.
I really doubt that those sets are a coincidence (come on, the 'classic' four punches on one set?).

I'll post the 27 movesets I got. I did notice a somewhat-correlation between answers and movesets.

AERIAL ACE    ICY WIND    FURY CUTTER    STRENGTH
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    THUNDER    HYPER BEAM
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    ROCK TOMB    THIEF
 ZAP CANNON    IRON TAIL    FURY CUTTER    ICY WIND
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    ICE PUNCH    FRUSTRATION
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    ICE PUNCH    RETURN
 SWORDS DANCE    AERIAL ACE    FURY CUTTER    SWIFT
 FAINT ATTACK    SHOCK WAVE    FIRE PUNCH    DOUBLE TEAM
 ZAP CANNON    DYNAMICPUNCH    SLEEP TALK    ROAR
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    HYPER BEAM    WATERFALL
 RAIN DANCE    WATERFALL    SWAGGER    ENDURE
 DOUBLE-EDGE    EXPLOSION    SELFDESTRUCT    SOLARBEAM
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    SWIFT    ICY WIND
 DOUBLE-EDGE    EXPLOSION    SELFDESTRUCT    WATER PULSE
 TAUNT    COUNTER    SUBSTITUTE    SLEEP TALK
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    STRENGTH    BULLET SEED
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    FIRE BLAST    FIRE PUNCH
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    AERIAL ACE    STRENGTH
 ZAP CANNON    THUNDER    ROLLOUT    ROCK TOMB
 RAIN DANCE    THUNDER    SEISMIC TOSS    ROAR
 ZAP CANNON    THUNDER    NIGHTMARE    ROCK TOMB
 DOUBLE-EDGE    EXPLOSION    SELFDESTRUCT    FURY CUTTER
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    SLUDGE BOMB    AERIAL ACE
 DEFENSE CURL    ROLLOUT    STEEL WING    SEISMIC TOSS
 FAINT ATTACK    SWIFT    SURF    BRICK BREAK
 RAIN DANCE    WATERFALL    AERIAL ACE    IRON TAIL
 FAINT ATTACK    SWIFT    SHOCK WAVE    ICE PUNCH

[Wichu]

Originally Posted by Fat Lorak

I'll post the 27 movesets I got. I did notice a somewhat-correlation between answers and movesets.

AERIAL ACE    ICY WIND    FURY CUTTER    STRENGTH
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    THUNDER    HYPER BEAM
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    ROCK TOMB    THIEF
 ZAP CANNON    IRON TAIL    FURY CUTTER    ICY WIND
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    ICE PUNCH    FRUSTRATION
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    ICE PUNCH    RETURN
 SWORDS DANCE    AERIAL ACE    FURY CUTTER    SWIFT
 FAINT ATTACK    SHOCK WAVE    FIRE PUNCH    DOUBLE TEAM
 ZAP CANNON    DYNAMICPUNCH    SLEEP TALK    ROAR
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    HYPER BEAM    WATERFALL
 RAIN DANCE    WATERFALL    SWAGGER    ENDURE
 DOUBLE-EDGE    EXPLOSION    SELFDESTRUCT    SOLARBEAM
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    SWIFT    ICY WIND
 DOUBLE-EDGE    EXPLOSION    SELFDESTRUCT    WATER PULSE
 TAUNT    COUNTER    SUBSTITUTE    SLEEP TALK
 ROLE PLAY    MIMIC    STRENGTH    BULLET SEED
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    FIRE BLAST    FIRE PUNCH
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    AERIAL ACE    STRENGTH
 ZAP CANNON    THUNDER    ROLLOUT    ROCK TOMB
 RAIN DANCE    THUNDER    SEISMIC TOSS    ROAR
 ZAP CANNON    THUNDER    NIGHTMARE    ROCK TOMB
 DOUBLE-EDGE    EXPLOSION    SELFDESTRUCT    FURY CUTTER
 METRONOME    HIDDEN POWER    SLUDGE BOMB    AERIAL ACE
 DEFENSE CURL    ROLLOUT    STEEL WING    SEISMIC TOSS
 FAINT ATTACK    SWIFT    SURF    BRICK BREAK
 RAIN DANCE    WATERFALL    AERIAL ACE    IRON TAIL
 FAINT ATTACK    SWIFT    SHOCK WAVE    ICE PUNCH

The moves do appear grouped in some way... Perhaps there are themed groups of two or three moves, and the remaining ones are random? From your list, I can see:
Role Play/Mimic - copying other Pokémon's ability/move
Metronome/Hidden Power - random effect (?)
Faint Attack/Swift (or Shock Wave?) - never miss
Double-Edge/Explosion/SelfDestruct - 'suicide' moves
Rain Dance/Waterfall - water moves?

There are also a lot of combo moves:
Rain Dance/Thunder
Defense Curl/Rollout
Taunt/Counter

Perhaps the questions determine one of a number of possible combinations, and the 'random' moves at the end?

Whatever the mechanism is, it's certainly not random... If I get some free time, I could help with getting a list of movesets.

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

The moves do appear grouped in some way... Perhaps there are themed groups of two or three moves, and the remaining ones are random? From your list, I can see:
Role Play/Mimic - copying other Pokémon's ability/move
Metronome/Hidden Power - random effect (?)
Faint Attack/Swift (or Shock Wave?) - never miss
Double-Edge/Explosion/SelfDestruct - 'suicide' moves
Rain Dance/Waterfall - water moves?

There are also a lot of combo moves:
Rain Dance/Thunder
Defense Curl/Rollout
Taunt/Counter

Perhaps the questions determine one of a number of possible combinations, and the 'random' moves at the end?

Whatever the mechanism is, it's certainly not random... If I get some free time, I could help with getting a list of movesets.

I had seen the groupings as well. However, without other people with third-gen Mews willing to help, my previous thread on this topic hadn't advanced as far as I'd hoped.

[Wichu]

I hadn't seen that thread; if you want, I'll try doing a few.

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

I hadn't seen that thread; if you want, I'll try doing a few.

I figure we might as well post results here, seeing as that thread hasn't been updated since July.

[Arseus]

Yeah, it makes more sense to post the results here than in an old thread.

Originally Posted by Fat Lorak

Well, that's quite useful. Do you think we could learn how this equation is modified, or would we have to delve into the game's coding to have any chance of this?

I'm thinking we'd have to get someone who can look at the game's code to do something like this. I'm almost certain that's what X-Act did for his PID/IV creation article; something like that is just too complex to be found externally.

[Little Green Yoda]

Originally Posted by Fat Arseus

Well, this is what we know so far, concerning the Colosseum/XD RNG:

That's crazy. It's strange that selecting a New Game would still keep the game's "SID" intact. I'm really curious as to how much of an impact those 3 numbers affect IV generation and if/how that can be manipulated.

It seems like a whole lot more complicated than the RNG in any of the other Pokemon games. Here's hoping somebody can crack the coding of these games lol. If only I knew how...

[Wild Eep*]

Bump with Mew info:

I just input Friends, kind MEW, Strike first to win, Krane, Snattle twice, and I got two different movesets:

Sunny Day/Fire Blast/Rest/Sleep Talk
Rain Dance/Waterfall/Sunny Day/Return

I have a strong feeling (not certain, but close) there is a random element to this.

[Lorak]

Originally Posted by Fat Wild Eep

Bump with Mew info:

I just input Friends, kind MEW, Strike first to win, Krane, Snattle twice, and I got two different movesets:

Sunny Day/Fire Blast/Rest/Sleep Talk
Rain Dance/Waterfall/Sunny Day/Return

I have a strong feeling (not certain, but close) there is a random element to this.

Was going to say, you've got Sunny Day in both. Also, both are weather-oriented. Random, perhaps, but there's more than coincidence related to the answers, methinks.

[Wild Eep*]

Originally Posted by Fat Lorak

Was going to say, you've got Sunny Day in both. Also, both are weather-oriented. Random, perhaps, but there's more than coincidence related to the answers, methinks.

Definitely there is a coincidence - I just was saying there is likely a portion of the moveset design that is random.

[ultimatedra]

Has there been any work in this lately?
And is there anything i could do to advance any research on this subject?

[flash_mc]

I'd like to help with this. I'm going to restart XD so tell me what can I do to help with this =P