DPPt Heatran

TAY

You and I Know
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OK! Well I saw that there was no sub heatran set in the analysis, and since it is really one of the better sets it seemed like a good idea to have it added! This is the first Analysis I have done, so I'm not totally sure about conventions. Also I hope it isn't a problem that I wrote quite a bit for this set.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heatran

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[SET]
name: Substitute
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Toxic / Explosion / Hidden Power / Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The idea behind this set is twofold: first of all, Heatran is one of the best in the game at forcing switches, due to his nearly universal coverage, great typing, and frequent use of Choice Scarf, so it is not difficult to get a Substitute up. Second, the only Pokemon that are immune to Toxic are Steel-types — easily taken out by Fire Blast and Earth Power — and Poison-types, all of which have either poor special defense or a Fire or Ground weakness.</p>

<p>Heatran should be sent out against something that will likely switch out, such as a Celebi or one of the many Steel types in OU. In consideration of this goal, it is often useful to send Heatran out for the first time after one of your own pokemon has been KO'd; most players will assume it is holding a Choice Scarf and switch out of the expected speedy attack. Once you have a Substitute up, make your play according to what they switch to. If they for some reason switch in something weak to Fire or Ground then you will attack it, obviously. If they don't, then you are still OK, since most of Heatran's common switch-ins—things like Gyarados, Tyranitar, Salamence, Swampert, and the bulky Water-types—absolutely hate being poisoned. Once you Toxic them and they break your Substitute, you can switch to something to stall out their attacks, and the next time you bring in Heatran your opponent will have at least one fewer counter for it!</p>

<p>Toxic is recommended because it has the greatest coverage of all the options in the last slot, but it isn't that spectacular without a reasonably bulky team to take hits from pokemon after they have been poisoned. For this reason several other more specialized options are available if you are running a more offensive team. Explosion is an all-around useful move, carrying the ability to take out Blissey and pretty much anything else your team has trouble with. One of the cool things with Explosion is that almost no one will think to switch to a Ghost if you explode with a Substitute up, which just makes it all the more useful (note that a Naive nature should be used with Explosion). A certain Hidden Power can also be selected if you want to be able to quickly take out any one of either Gyarados, Salamence, or Swampert instead of slowly waiting for Toxic to do the job. Finally, Will-O-Wisp is possibly more useful than Toxic against Gyarados, Salamence, Tyranitar, and some others, but it kills even slower than Toxic (and can even be circumvented via Recover or Roost), and the 75% accuracy is a pretty big turn off.</p>

<p>It may seem strange to use a +Speed nature without a Choice Scarf, but in a metagame where Heatran is as popular as it is, max speed can be a huge aid. With full Speed, Heatran will attack before +Speed Breloom and Metagross, and before neutral speed Gyarados, Dragonite, and Heracross; and it will nearly always outspeed the defensive base 100 Speed Pokemon. Any of these could easily OHKO or status Heatran, so getting the jump on them with Substitute or Toxic is often crucial to the outcome of a match.</p>
 

TAY

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Yeah Caelum told me the same thing. The problem is that HP Elec, Ice, and Grass are all about equally viable, and it seemed more sensible to just discuss the Hidden Power options in the description than to give six options for one moveslot >_>

Is convention really that strong that it overrides terrible aesthetics?
 
I think the set should be called something like subterran or some other clever play on words
which is something in reference to heatran's subterranean dwelling i wonder what you think.
 
I realized they took SubSalace Heatran off the analysis page? If it didn't deserve its own set, perhaps you could fit it in here.

As far as Hidden Powers, Ice or Grass are the big ones. With Electric you are still walled by Swampert. And Salamance with Grass.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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I dunno why SubSalac Heatran was taken off.

Anyway, I've seen people use Lava Plume over Fire Blast and use Toxic in slot 4 many times. Probably to give Heatran a pseudo-Double Status and such. Might be worth mentioning.
 

Malfunction

nice desu ne
Just something quick,
On the first line, first word, shouldn't the word 'This' be 'The'?
Also, you're using '--'. Is '—' what you wanted? Just copy it.
Last but not least, I think this analysis is really long.. Try cropping some stuff, as previously mentioned. Even if the HPs each have their own uses, I don't think you need to describe them.. Your choice though, just my opinion.

Sincerely,
Yours Truly
 

TAY

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On the first line, first word, shouldn't the word 'This' be 'The'?
Yes it should.
Also, you're using '--'. Is '—' what you wanted? Just copy it.
Yeah that looks dumb. Fixing it.
Last but not least, I think this analysis is really long.. Try cropping some stuff, as previously mentioned. Even if the HPs each have their own uses, I don't think you need to describe them.. Your choice though, just my opinion.
Is length really a problem? It isn't like I talk about irrelevant stuff...and I hate to sound lazy but someone should probably tell me what to crop because the whole thing seems useful to me since I wrote it. And I do mention the hidden powers briefly in my description, though I only reference them by the pokemon they are intended to be used against. Do I really need to spell out "HP Elec for Gyara, Ice for Salamence, Grass for Swampert." That would just make it longer and I think most people can figure it out.

Anyway, I've seen people use Lava Plume over Fire Blast and use Toxic in slot 4 many times. Probably to give Heatran a pseudo-Double Status and such. Might be worth mentioning.
Ugh I dunno. As someone who has used this set a lot, there isn't a single pokemon I can think of that I would rather use Lava Plume than Toxic on after I have a sub up (except for stuff weak to fire, of course). Can you really say that if you got a sub up you would go for a 30% burn on gyarados or salamence rather than a 90% toxic? Maybe it's worth mentioning just for accuracy though...

Also sorry if I sound like a bit of a jerk; I haven't done one of these before and I'm just trying to figure out what stuff is / is not acceptable in the write-ups.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
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Second, the only Pokemon that are immune to Toxic are Steels-types — easily taken out by Fire Blast and Flamethrower — and Poison-types, all of which either have abysmal special defense or are part Grass type
I wouldn't say that. Consider Tentacruel (80/120), Muk (105/100), Nidoqueen (90/85) and even Crobat (85/80)...not that the latter two really have the stomach to take Fire Blasts but I don't understand where this idea of Poisons having poor SpD came from...with the exception of Weezing, every Poison type Pokemon you're likely to encounter in OU has above average SpD. Might just be better to say "and Poison-types, none of whom particularly enjoy absorbing Heatran's Fire or Ground attacks" or something along those lines.

In the paragraph that I've quoted you also mention Flamethrower, a move that isn't listed on the set.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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No its cool. The reason I said that was to give something similair to Will-O-Wisp, while still maintaining Toxic. Obviously, you want to use Toxic as your main status, but you can juggle around burns with Lava Plume. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the set. As I've stated, SET COMMENTS having a mention will do.
 

TAY

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I wouldn't say that. Consider Tentacruel (80/120), Muk (105/100), Nidoqueen (90/85) and even Crobat (85/80)...not that the latter two really have the stomach to take Fire Blasts but I don't understand where this idea of Poisons having poor SpD came from...with the exception of Weezing, every Poison type Pokemon you're likely to encounter in OU has above average SpD. Might just be better to say "and Poison-types, none of whom particularly enjoy absorbing Heatran's Fire or Ground attacks" or something along those lines.

In the paragraph that I've quoted you also mention Flamethrower, a move that isn't listed on the set.
Well I'm not too concerned about Muk since it get like -40 OU usages each month (and it is pretty terrible), but you're absolutely right about Tentacruel and Nidoqueen. I am changing it appropriately.

Also "Flamethrower" should have been "Earth Power." Thanks.
 

Caelum

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TAYlum said:
<p>It may seem strange to use a +Speed nature without a Choice Scarf, but in a metagame where Heatran is as popular as it is, max speed can be a huge aid. It also is helpful to get a Substitute up in front of a status attack, and to nearly always outspeed the defensive base 100 Speed Pokemon.</p>
+ Speed is also useful to outrun Adamant Gyarados so you can Toxic / WoW / Explode / HP Electric it whatever. I'd mention that since you make it sound like it's only for Heatran Speed ties.



You can upload this sometime tomorrow if no more big comments come along :)
 

Sapientia

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perhaps you should also mention torment at the last slot as this takes out a lot of pokemon that have just one move that is dangerous for heatran
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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Torment is glitched on Shoddy to the point of broken-ness, so it's impossible to test Torment accurately and fairly.
 

TAY

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+ Speed is also useful to outrun Adamant Gyarados so you can Toxic / WoW / Explode / HP Electric it whatever. I'd mention that since you make it sound like it's only for Heatran Speed ties.



You can upload this sometime tomorrow if no more big comments come along :)
Yes sir

@Sapientia: So I torment them and then as they switch...I use Substitute again? It doesn't really make sense to me to torment from behind a sub when all it really does is let me use sub again the next turn.


@SithLord: I love you for making grammar corrections. I have taken the first and third suggestions. "Less" may sound better but it is grammatically incorrect. Such is English.
 
Some minor changes:

Second, the only Pokemon that are immune to Toxic are Steels-types
should be Steel-types

next time you bring in Heatran your opponent will have at least one fewer counter for it!
I think "less" flows better compared to "fewer"

It may seem strange to use a +Speed nature without a Choice Scarf, but in a metagame where Heatran is as popular as it is, max Speed can be a huge aid. With full Speed, Heatran will attack before +Speed Breloom and Metagross
Stats capitalized. These are all I could find...nice writeup!
 
It's not major, but it might be worth mentioning that Will-O-Wisp is useful against Tyranitar also. As the way it's written at the moment seems to indicate that Toxic will work well against Tyranitar, but not Will-O-Wisp.

The tag at the end of the first paragraph of Set Comments is also wrong, it should be </p>. But that's all =)
 

Malfunction

nice desu ne
Something really quick. When using the '—' thing, don't set it off by spaces. Change "Steel-types — easily taken out by Fire Blast and Earth Power — and Poison-types" to "Steel-types—easily taken out by Fire Blast and Earth Power—and Poison-types".

Sincerely,
Yours Truly
 

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