DP Research Thread #5 (Newest yet)

[imperfectluck]

There is no prompt to reselect a new switch target over Platinum wifi if your Pokemon get's ko'd by Pursuit.

[Syberia]

What ipl said; Smogon was lame and wouldn't let me post.

You continue with the switch as normal; you don't get to pick a new pokemon.

[puffery]

Acid rain glitch confimation that the rain boosts water attacks in the acid rain

my kingdra did 75% to a metagross after 1 dd after scizor pursuited my jirachi in sandstorm

[RBG*]

Originally Posted by Fat puffery

Acid rain glitch confimation that the rain boosts water attacks in the acid rain

my kingdra did 75% to a metagross after 1 dd after scizor pursuited my jirachi in sandstorm

I'm sorry, but that is hardly enough info. What was the attacking stat of kingdra? What items did it have? What was metagross Def stat? What attack did you use?

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Fat RB Golbat

I'm sorry, but that is hardly enough info. What was the attacking stat of kingdra? What items did it have? What was metagross Def stat? What attack did you use?

Read into it a little RB, c'mon now :(

Obviously his Kingdra is maximum Attack and Adamant (nobody runs anything else) and if it did anywhere near 75% to Metagross in the Rain it probably is not running maximum HP (or any at all) and so I can assume it's a basic 4 HP / 0 Def spread he is running.

Working under those assumptions I make the calcs for average damage.

317 Attack Kingdra's +1 Waterfall vs. 302 HP / 296 Def Metagross: 150 HP (49.67% on average)

So, in the rain, that Waterfall should do about 223 HP in damage and that's about 74% of Metagross's health which would reasonably appear like 3/4s of Metagross's health lost to a player.

Data is for the weak. Research should always work on assumption!

[RBG*]

Currently, our on site info on Micle Berry is wrong:

Originally Posted by Fat Site

The next move used will always hit. Micle Berry ignores all accuracy and evasion modifiers. If the target uses Detect or Protect the turn after the Micle Berry activates, then any attack by the user that turn has 100 - Accuracy chance to break through Detect or Protect. This ability to break through Detect and Protect does not apply to Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.

Past tests have proven that it can miss, however, the exact mechanics are still uncertain. What is the increased percentage chance of hitting? Does it really hit through protect?

[BlueCookies]

Originally Posted by Fat RB Golbat

Currently, our on site info on Micle Berry is wrong:



Past tests have proven that it can miss, however, the exact mechanics are still uncertain. What is the increased percentage chance of hitting? Does it really hit through protect?

Has this been tested in Platinum, because Blizzard in hail/Thunder in rain/etc had a chance to hit through protect in D/P but Platinum changed that, so maybe the attack used after micle berry activates has 0% chance to hit through protect?

[Jibaku*]

Well I tested the Protect thingy

Giratina-O & Darkrai vs. Ponyta and Rapidash
Darkrai used Dark Void!
Ponyta and Rapidash fell asleep!
Giratina-O used Aura Sphere on Darkrai!
(82% damage)
Darkrai's Micle Berry activated!
Ponyta and Rapidash are tormented by Bad Dreams!

Giratina-O used Protect!
Darkrai used Dark Pulse on Giratina-O!
Giratina-O protected itself!
(no damage)

Verdict: The moves don't hit through Protect. I haven't tested Focus Blast or any other <100% acc moves though.

[puffery]

caelum's assumption is correct i have max attack 317 +1 waterfall doing ~50 with no rain ~75 with rain

[puffery]

I have a question why are certain moves missing from smogon's move section for some pokemon for example heal bell on dragontie

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Originally Posted by Fat puffery

I have a question why are certain moves missing from smogon's move section for some pokemon for example heal bell on dragontie

We're working on it.

For future reference, save those type of questions for the Simple Question, Simple Answer thread. This thread is for questions related to game mechanics.

[cim]

Do Critical Hits ignore the Rock Sandstorm boost? I don't think so, but have no recollection of it being tested.

[Veedrock]

Erm, not that this is proof, but from Bulbapedia:

When a move scores a critical hit, damage is calculated based on either the modified or unmodified attack and defense stats, whichever is more advantageous to the attacker. For example, an attacker who has used Swords Dance and then makes a critical hit will get the benefit of the increased Attack, while one affected by Charm will use its normal Attack score. Another example would be if a team had Light Screen or Reflect on it and the attacker scored a critical on the team with the certain wall; the defense added by the wall would then be ignored, and will do double normal damage.

Based on that I would presume it does ignore it, but if it's untested it's still worth doing.



EDIT: Agreeing with what OmegaDonut said below, I don't think it hits through Light Screen and Reflect.

[ΩDonut]

Critical Hits have worked that way since GSC. Although I'm suspicious about that part where critical hits ignore Reflect\Light Screen. I remember that they still halve the damage of critical hits, but maybe I'm thinking of a different gen?

[eric the espeon]

Beat Up.
How exactly is the damage calculated?
On site it said the following:

All Pokémon on the user's team that are not fainted and do not have a status condition do a 10 power typeless attack on the target. Beat Up uses base Attack and base Defense for these calculations; EVs, IVs, and Natures are irrelevant.

So what formula exactly is used?
Is it the same as the normal damage formula, but with Attack replaced directly by Base Attack?

Bulbapedia said that: "Beat Up skips the randomization factor, but does apply same-type attack bonus for Dark-type Pokémon." which would imply that the formula is not entirely the same as for normal attacks.

It would be pretty easy to test if Bulbapedia is correct on this, if you get the same damage output each time the randomization is skiped.

If Bulbapedia is correct Beat Up would need to be added to the Exceptional Cases section of the damage guide.

Edit: Specifically does Choice Band, boosted attack or similar changes affect the damage? It would be kinda strange for one Pokemon's boost to make the attacks from other Pokemon more powerful.

[Pyromanic]

Three questions:
If the custap berry is tricked after it is "in a pinch" does the pokemon who originally had the the custap berry get the bonus?
Does confusion go through wonder guard?
If a pokemon "hurts itself in confusion" does that activate a focus sash?

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Fat -_-

Three questions:
If the custap berry is tricked after it is "in a pinch" does the pokemon who originally had the the custap berry get the bonus?
Does confusion go through wonder guard?
If a pokemon "hurts itself in confusion" does that activate a focus sash?

simple Q/A thread next time (should be a few below this thread). If a mod wants they can delete the posts and I'll just PM him the answers so it doesn't clutter the thread. Edit: I PMed him, just delete these two posts.

- After the berry activates it can't be tricked so whoever it activated for gets the "bonus"

- yes

- If it deals enough damage in confusion to activate focus sash, yes.

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Originally Posted by Fat -_-

Three questions:
If the custap berry is tricked after it is "in a pinch" does the pokemon who originally had the the custap berry get the bonus?

Originally Posted by Fat Caelum

- After the berry activates it can't be tricked so whoever it activated for gets the "bonus"

Whoa, hold up now. This is a legitimate research question. A Custap Berry doesn't get eaten until the turn after it gets to 1/4 of its HP. It is unlike all other 'pinch' Berries in this respect. So does it activate when the holder's HP drops, or when it actually gets the benefit?

Since the text message and the graphic occur when the holder actually gets the benefit from the Berry, I suspect that it doesn't 'activate' at all until then. A test should be done to confirm this, though.

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMaskedNitpicker

Whoa, hold up now. This is a legitimate research question. A Custap Berry doesn't get eaten until the turn after it gets to 1/4 of its HP. So does it activate when the holder's HP drops, or when it actually gets the benefit?

Since the text message and the graphic occur when the holder actually gets the benefit from the Berry, I suspect that it doesn't 'activate' at all until then. A test should be done to confirm this, though.

I talked to him in PM, you are thinking of a different question. He was asking that if the message appeared on the screen (at least that's what he told me), I don't know the answer to what you are asking.

[Syberia]

Critical Hits do not ignore the Sandstorm boost.

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Originally Posted by Fat Caelum

I talked to him in PM, you are thinking of a different question. He was asking that if the message appeared on the screen (at least that's what he told me), I don't know the answer to what you are asking.

I'm not sure if he (or you) are aware of exactly how the Custap Berry works. It's my understanding that a Pokémon is 'in a pinch' when its HP reaches a certain threshold (in this case 1/4 max HP). Unlike every other pinch Berry, Custap does not activate as soon as the holder passes this threshold. It activates when the Pokémon uses its next move. No message appears until this point. So what was he asking? It seems unlikely he was asking whether a Berry could be Tricked after being eaten.

[X-Act]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

Critical Hits have worked that way since GSC. Although I'm suspicious about that part where critical hits ignore Reflect\Light Screen. I remember that they still halve the damage of critical hits, but maybe I'm thinking of a different gen?

I'm absolutely sure that critical hits ignore Reflect and/or Light Screen. At least they do in DP. I remember Peterko providing the evidence when we were working on the damage formula for DP.

[whistle]

RE: Custap Berry. I understood his question as "if you Trick the Custap Berry after its holder reaches the 1/4 HP threshold but before it uses the berry, who gets the effect?"

Label the turn that the user reaches 1/4 HP "Turn 1" and the next turn (the one that Custap would activate on) "Turn 2". If the user of Trick is faster than the Custap holder, nothing happens. If you Trick on Turn 1, it defeats the purpose of tricking because the berry isn't in a pinch yet. If you Trick on Turn 2, the Custap holder has already gone first.

This would only apply (1) if the user of Trick was slower than the user of the Custap Berry (2) if the Tricker used Trick after the Custap holder attacked (3) if the Custap holder was below 25% HP at the time of the Trick (4) this all happened on Turn 1.

Test: Alakazam (Trick) and Ninjask (@ Custap) in DP Battle Tower. Parentheses show Ninjask's HP, which is NOT divisible by 4 at L50.

Snover's Snow Warning whipped up a Hailstorm.
Ninjask used Substitute. (75%)
Alakazam used Calm Mind.
Snover used Icy Wind. Ninjask's Substitute faded.
Hail. (69%)

Ninjask used Substitute. (44%)
Alakazam used Calm Mind.
Attacks. Substitute faded. (44%)
Hail. (38%)

Ninjask used Substitute. (13%)
Alakazam used Trick. It failed.
Snover used Icy Wind. Ninjask's Substitute faded. (13%)
Alakazam fainted from Shieldon's something or other.
Hail. (6%)

Gyarados, I choose you!
Ninjask's Custap Berry let it go first. Ninjask used Baton Pass. (6%)

There we go. Trick fails if used after the Custap Berry's holder drops below the 1/4 HP cutoff but before the holder activates the berry when it attacks.

[supermarth64]

Originally Posted by Fat whistle

Ninjask used Substitute. (13%)
Alakazam used Trick. It failed.

Substitute blocks Trick.

From the Substitute move page:

Substitute blocks Acupressure, Block, Ghost's Curse, Dream Eater, Embargo, Gastro Acid, Grudge, Heal Block, Leech Seed, Lock-On, Mean Look, Mimic, Mind Reader, Nightmare, Pain Split, Psycho Shift, Spider Web, Sketch, Switcheroo, Trick, Worry Seed, and Yawn.

So you have to change your test.

[whistle]

I redid it, but forgot to account for the possibility that Alakazam might have been below 25% when Custap activated. That was the second method. Below is the third method, which has been double checked.

The other team was a Drowsee and Voltorb, but all they did was attack my Uxie for LOL% so they aren't included.

Alakazam and Uxie go out.
Yawn.
Yawn.

Protect.
Protect.
The other team falls asleep.

Ninjask switches in for Uxie.
Alakazam uses Psychic on Ninjask. 30% left.

Alakazam uses Protect.
Ninjask uses Substitute. 5% left.

Alakazam uses Yawn. It failed.
Uxie switches in for Ninjask.
Both of the other team's guys wake up.

Staraptor switches in for Alakazam.
Uxie yawns one of them.

Alakazam switches in for Staraptor.
Uxie yawns the other one.
First one falls asleep.

Protect.
Protect.
Second one falls asleep.

Ninjask switches in for Uxie.
Alakazam uses Trick. Alakazam obtained the Custap Berry.

Ninjask's None allowed it to move first. Ninjask used Swords Dance.
Alakazam used Psychic.

Apparently, Trick transfers the item but not the effect of the berry activation. It's pretty interesting that the game doesn't know what to say now that the berry is gone so it just says Ninjask's None.

I double checked this result.