The Pokemon Suspects

[Maniaclyrasist]

After Lati@s and Manaphy are done who exactly are we testing?

There has been a fair amount controversy about Mew, Ho-oh and now Deoxys-D and in the OoO thread in PR there is little to no discussion concerning either. I didn't think it was really necessary to bring this up in PR so i'm asking it here what is the general consensus on Mew, Ho-oh and Deoxys-D as future suspects.

Personally I think testing Mew and Ho-oh is a bit silly but Deoxys-D seems like it would fit in the metagame just fine.

Opinions?

[Jibaku*]

Forget Mew. While many would abuse the Baton Passer, his movepool is so wide he can counter the stuff trying to counter the normal BPer. And as you drop from OU what counters this go less (though at the same time, the Pokemon to pass to drops).

[Havak]

Well, I was assuming that there was still more to do in terms of testing Lati@s (testing Soul Dew on them?) and also more to come from Garchomp and Shaymin-S.

Personally I'd be against testing all of Mew, Deoxys-D and Ho-oh.. I think they could all be easily beaten if you engineer your team to do so, but that's not a real reason for them not being Uber (as the same can be said for something like Deoxys-A). I guess there's no harm in testing them all, but I just wouldn't.

What were the thoughts about Stealth Rock, Evasion etc

[Maniaclyrasist]

Testing Lati@s with Soul Dew falls under my group of "testing that would be just silly". It's already relatively hard to deal with them in Ubers considering the amount of initial power they have at their disposal. Saying that they would centralise OU would be an understatement.

The other "testing" with Garchomp and Shaymin-S will come at Stage 3, this is still stage 1 I am talking about.

[TAY]

If it were up to me I would only test Ho-oh, but seeing has how there has been quite a debate around Deo-d recently it might be good to throw it on the list. I agree that Mew is ridiculous enough to not warrant testing.

So I would say after Manaphy we can move to either Deo-d or ho-oh; the order isn't particularly important.

[Jumpman16**]

no to sr, evasion stays. dew is being tested because there is literally no reason to believe latias is overwhelmingly uber with it

mew can leave the list, ho-oh isnt on it and shouldnt be

this should have been posted in pr, this isnt a big secret discussion. dxd can be brought up there

[Maniaclyrasist]

Originally Posted by Fat Jumpman16

dew is being tested because there is literally no reason to believe latias is overwhelmingly uber with it.

I disagree. I think there is no reason to test Soul Dew Lati@s due to the overwhelming effort it would take to counter it. Lati@s with Soul Dew is already hard enough to deal with in Ubers as is, even with things like Scarf Garchomp, Scarf Palkia and Dialga there. Testing it in OU would be a complete waste of time, especially considering the fact that if we did this we would be testing Latias and Latios seperately again.

this should have been posted in pr, this isnt a big secret discussion. dxd can be brought up there

I didn't bring it up in PR because it was more of a personal question and I didn't know if it was discussed elsewhere or not.

[Earthworm]

I think Deoxys-D and perhaps Ho-oh are appropriate suspects. I also think that Mew and Lati@s with Soul Dew are most likely too powerful for OU but if others think they should be tested then the only reason I can see not to test is the time that would be used doing so/delay in testing other suspects.

[Great Sage**]

Deoxys-D would have my support for testing, though I'd have reason to believe that its having Knock Off makes it something different from an alternate Cresselia in terms of counters. Ho-oh is something I could go either way with. Mew should be off the list; it's very potent even in Ubers.

[Jumpman16**]

Originally Posted by Fat Maniaclyrasist

I disagree. I think there is no reason to test Soul Dew Lati@s due to the overwhelming effort it would take to counter it. Lati@s with Soul Dew is already hard enough to deal with in Ubers as is, even with things like Scarf Garchomp, Scarf Palkia and Dialga there. Testing it in OU would be a complete waste of time, especially considering the fact that if we did this we would be testing Latias and Latios seperately again.

i didn't initially test them with dew because testing them first with dew makes even less sense than the notion that they might not be uber with dew, not because i'm sure that they're uber with dew. i was fully aware that at least one could have been given a stage 2 ou tag, as the first post of my latias thread clearly indicates.

i am also open to the idea, in the interests of saving time, of stopping any test if something obviously looks to be out of hand. we're not retesting skymin because i don't want to "waste" another month on one single pokemon we already tested, not because it's the "right" thing to do (it technically isn't). we're not unyieldingly tied to the 30-day window for every single suspect test, because, well, i said so, and for all intents and purposes i am running this process. i am aware of what lati@s is capable of with and without soul dew, as the second post of my latias thread ("fun fact:") clearly indicates.

I didn't bring it up in PR because it was more of a personal question and I didn't know if it was discussed elsewhere or not.

how is this "personal"

if it were personal you would/should have PMed me or talked to me on AIM (as you've done before)

in actuality, this is exactly the kind of pokemon policy issue that needs a lot of peoples' input. and exactly the reason tangerine and i go out of our way to assess posters on a case-by-case basis to determine the exact kind of qualified people we need weighing in on these issues.

repost your concerns in pr. without worrying about whether other people may disagree with you, or whether you may not look like you have all the right answers up front.