Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

[thetorsoboy]

Wait, can you clarify what you mean, Pink?

EDIT: And chainers are not screwed, because you can only get bred Pokemon in Poke Balls, last I checked. :P

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by Fat LightningFusion

I can maybe do a mini guide tonight. Yeah, chainers are screwed. We can get perfect shinies now.

No, WiFi is screwed. Trade threads are completely pointless once people get used to this.

[VileTung]

Originally Posted by Fat LightningFusion

I can maybe do a mini guide tonight. Yeah, chainers are screwed. We can get perfect shinies now.

I can't wait for the Guide!

@thetorsobuy, yes that's true, so I will still keep chaining, I think I will only breed stuff that really needs an egg move to be used otherwise just chaining =)

@Mingot; that would be awesome, good luck!

[Pink]

Sure thing. And, I don't think someone is going to chose a Mediocre shiny in a dive ball over a Flawless bred shiny.

So, in Platinum there are two different RNG. The Incubation RNG and the Normal RNG.

The Incubation is used for the egg. It is manipulatable in such a way that by using the Poketech to call the RNG and progress the Seeds, we can set the Seed to make it so the egg will be shiny. This RNG isn't changed when we take steps, or stand in town with all the NPCs moving around. If it was, we wouldn't be able to get the shinies because the RNG would change the seed. So, when we have an Egg to SR in the day care, we can make the egg shiny by the seed manipulation, then proceed to SR it for good IVs.

The Normal RNG is what is used for catching wild pokemon, legends, and really everything else. Walking effects it. NPCs walking effects it. Turning around effects it. Anything you can think of, really, effects it. Time in game *might* effect it. That's why we can get the same spreads on legends when we wait a little while. I did it my self with Azelf.

So, the question was could we use the IRNG (Incubation) to make legends shiny, and I'm going to have to say no. The NRNG is what calls the seed and PID for the legends we fight. By moving the Poketech around, we're changing the IRNG. It won't have an effect on the legend's shinyness.

However, I have a very base understanding of this, and could be wrong. But, I believe what I've gathered is mostly, if not all, correct.


EDIT: Can someone please tell me which Japanese link to click to get the App? I want to try getting a shiny.

[thetorsoboy]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that you generate a shiny egg by the PID and such, then-

Oh, shit. I get it. So you basically advance the RNG to get the shiny egg with the desired nature and ability. Then you can just SR for IVs. I get it.

Are IVs inherited like D/P? Or do we not know?

[=Jonny=]

Originally Posted by Fat Equinox

No, WiFi is screwed. Trade threads are completely pointless once people get used to this.

No. WiFi was already screwed.

Mingot -- did you fix your seed calculator? the results I get are slightly different from the ones I get from calcpid.

[Pink]

We don't know how the IVs are inherited yet. However, you had one thing wrong. The IRNG only influences the shinyness. Nature and Ability and Gender are set when the egg is in the old man's hands. You change the shinyness after he is holding it.

Jonny, which app are we s'posed to use to get the seed for shinyness? Can you link me? And no, they're all method one.

[thetorsoboy]

Okay, just one more question. To advance the RNG with the friendship app, you just double tap it so all the Pokemon jump, right?

[VileTung]

Originally Posted by Fat thetorsoboy

Okay, just one more question. To advance the RNG with the friendship app, you just double tap it so all the Pokemon jump, right?

As far as I know, yes.

[mingot**]

Originally Posted by Fat =Jonny=

No. WiFi was already screwed.

Mingot -- did you fix your seed calculator? the results I get are slightly different from the ones I get from calcpid.

Er not sure what I need to fix with regards to the initial seed. I used it and then plugged that into the JP app as the initial seed and found my egg pids on his list. I can't generate a good PID list at this time, though, as I don't have the formula. What exactly are you having a problem with?

Tell me whats broken :)

And is "Calcpid" the name of the Japanese program?

Originally Posted by Fat Pink

We don't know how the IVs are inherited yet. However, you had one thing wrong. The IRNG only influences the shinyness. Nature and Ability and Gender are set when the egg is in the old man's hands. You change the shinyness after he is holding it.

Jonny, which app are we s'posed to use to get the seed for shinyness? Can you link me? And no, they're all method one.

Looks like IVs use the regular RNG. I can't output inheritance yet as it has changed slightly from emerald, but I have updated my internal version and the next release will at least let you output proper inheritance.

Originally Posted by Fat thetorsoboy

Okay, just one more question. To advance the RNG with the friendship app, you just double tap it so all the Pokemon jump, right?

Yes.

Also, updated the the OP to include a link and download instructions for the JP app.

And if any of you are mathematically or research inclined PLEASE help me find the method for egg PID generation so we don't even have to use the JP application.

[=Jonny=]

Originally Posted by Fat Pink

We don't know how the IVs are inherited yet. However, you had one thing wrong. The IRNG only influences the shinyness. Nature and Ability and Gender are set when the egg is in the old man's hands. You change the shinyness after he is holding it.

Jonny, which app are we s'posed to use to get the seed for shinyness? Can you link me? And no, they're all method one.

yeah I've just realized you're right. I edited my post. I'm using the JP program calcpid to find the seed. RNG reporter gives a different seed when the same ivs and nature are given. By the way I put these ivs and nature in rng reporter:

hardy 2 3 12 31 20 26

the calculated sEED is: B5F1EAA3
and the PID: 12030A90

with calcpid:

seed : 0EEB4379
PID : same as RNG reporter

[Pink]

Are you putting in the time correctly?

Alright, so I'm going to be a dumbass here. Which do we use to get the initial seed? calcpid / rngreporter? Then from there, which app do we use to get the shiny spreads? That's what I'm not understanding.

EDIT: nvm didn't see OP.

[mingot**]

Interesting, I think he is wrong, though.

For fun run both his and my seeds through a generation.

When you run my seed the actual monster (the hardy 2 3 12 31 20 26) comes out first.

When you run his a gentle (9 19 5 4 30 31) comes out first.

Rerun mine and you will find that gentle down six locations. Basically what he is giving for the seed seems to be to get the next actual pokemon after all RNG calls are consumed.

I have no idea what/why he does that but my method is better to actually get get the seed to generate the pokemon you just asked about.... *shrug*

-----

and really, for step 2, he is going backwards so the fact that he advanced perhaps more than necesary probably does not make any difference. Also, you should not really be using the monster seed for anything :) it's the first "initial" canidate that is what you want.

[TDS]

I think you should add a guide regarding the poketech app too. Like how much does it advance the rng each time etc. I kind of get it....

[=Jonny=]

yeah but the "first" spread is @ frame 3... in RNG reporter I can't generate frame 0 1 and 2.
I validated the JP program on my RF (writing a SGM and then checking the ivs of a zapdos caught by successive frames) so I'm pretty sure it's correct.

[VileTung]

Hi Mingot

What tab do we need to use? at this step:

Step 6

Start the Japanse PID creation application and find the box of controls at the bottom right corner. This should be the only portion of the application that we need.

[mingot**]

*sigh* The frame 3 shit is just where I start the count to match with emloop numbers to avoid confusion.

What's an RF?

I am also not saying he is giving bad numbers, just that he gives a seed that will start generating a few frames PAST the actual monster whose numbers you plugged in.

@ Vlie - it is not done, please wait until it is :/

[VileTung]

Originally Posted by Fat mingot

*sigh* The frame 3 shit is just where I start the count to match with emloop numbers to avoid confusion.

What's an RF?

I am also not saying he is giving bad numbers, just that he gives a seed that will start generating a few frames PAST the actual monster whose numbers you plugged in.

@ Vlie - it is not done, please wait until it is :/

Oops, lol. Sorry I thought it was done!

[=Jonny=]

RF is Red Fire...this is what I did:
-saved a sgm in front of a zapdos
-caught the zapdos and checked ivs and nature.
-obtained the seed from the JP calculator
-seeded the RNG with the above seed and generated a list of spreads.
-reloaded the SGM (which actually had the same Seed) and advanced one frame
-caught a new zapdos and its ivs nature matched with those I obtained by seeding the RNG with the seed calculated by calcpid. and also all the zapdos in the successive frames had matching ivs and natures... that's why I originally thought that Calcpid was giving out a correct SEED

[Pink]

So, everstones no longer work for natures in the Daycare now?

[mingot**]

Actually if you think about it, thats proof that it's not giving out the "correct" (by my definition heh heh) seed.

Given the same seed you should get the same pokemon, not the next one. It seems my "seed" produces output to get the same pokemon and his to get the next. *shrug*. I don't really think it makes any difference, as it's all about getting the initial seed.

[Pink]

He advanced the RNG by switching ahead one frame, so he got the next spread. So aren't you both right then? xD

[mingot**]

I don't think it's really a matter of being right or wrong. My idea of a seed for a monster is the value that you plug back into the RNG to produce the same monster. The author of the JP applications idea of a seed is the number you plug in to get the next monster. Since knowing the actual seed if the monster is pretty much useless and it's really only the initial seed that counts it's not even important.

AND at this point I don't think we have any idea at all about how the everstone affects the process.

[=Jonny=]

Originally Posted by Fat mingot

Actually if you think about it, thats proof that it's not giving out the "correct" (by my definition heh heh) seed.

Given the same seed you should get the same pokemon, not the next one. It seems my "seed" produces output to get the same pokemon and his to get the next. *shrug*. I don't really think it makes any difference, as it's all about getting the initial seed.

I loaed the SGM with the same seed and then advanced by only one frame and caught a new (different) zapdos.
by the way the difference between the two programs is that one gives a SEED that's 6 calls past the other
(Inverse seed calculation from calcpid)
- 0回目,0x0EEB4379 Calcpid
- 1回目,0x2468135E
- 2回目,0x53FA4FB7
- 3回目,0xB062D1D4
- 4回目,0x1203C645
- 5回目,0x0A90F1DA
- 6回目,0xB5F1EAA3 RNG Reporter
- 7回目,0xFED594F0
- 8回目,0x65A17451
- 9回目,0xB537A096

[Wiil]

So I'm using your RNG Reporter, mingot, just playing around with it. I tried the generator/finder thing, just trying to figure it out. I played around with some dates, and I came onto 4/18, 2006, 12:44:00. I was trying for something Giratina-O oriented, so I entered in 31/2/31/31/31/31 for the IVs, and Modest for the nature. I clicked "Find", and... well, I got some results, but I don't exactly know what they mean. There were five results. Under the "Type" column, the first one says "Monster" but the rest say "Initial". The next column lists seeds. The third is for "Offset", and the first one is at 0 but the rest have numbers in the thousands. For the last two colums, Seconds and Delay, the first one has nothing, but the last four have something.

So I guess what I'm asking is what does this all mean and how do I use it?