Team Sand Attack (Bulky Offensive OU)

Bingleton · May 21st, 2009, 3:54:48 PM

Introduction

A dedicated Sandstorm team? Whaaaaaat? I was less than keen on playing a weather team at first, but after a lot of tinkering I got to a team that suits my switch-heavy playstyle, with several immunities and boosts. It's been solid in playtesting, but does poorly against several common threats and has problems with stall teams (Spikes and Toxic Spikes in particular, probably because of the lack of a Rapid Spinner.)

Sand Attack At A Glance

Crumplezone (Azelf) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic

Suicide Azelf scouts out opposing leads - usually, I throw up an SR and attack. Fire Blast and Psychic are surprisingly effective against a lot of common leads (Metagross, Abomasnow, Infernape, Lucario) and failing that, Explosion will knock out a lead the rest of my team has difficulty with (such as Swampert.) Occasionally, I'll pull back Azelf after throwing up the initial SR and switch in something else, saving that last-ditch Explosion for a future threat.

Shockwave (Metagross) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk/132 Spd/124 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Ball

I brought in Metagross when I began having too much trouble with Bulky Waters (particularly Swampert.) Metagross is a very solid sweeper, but a little fragile for my tastes - still, it makes up for it in pure power, often OHKOing rival Tyranitar (assuming it outspeeds them) and EQing numerous others. I usually bring him in to clear out Blissey as well.

Rampage (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 120 HP/136 Atk/252 Spd
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

Nominally, the centerpiece of the team. (Wait a minute to find out who really runs the show.) Scarfed Tyranitar outruns most Pokes but has big problems with priority attacks (Mach Punch and Bullet Punch.) It's a very solid wallbreaker, however, and often manages a revenge kill against Heatran and Gengar. Choice can be problematic though, and switching him in and out can be irritating - I may be looking to switch to a different set on Tyranitar.

Frenzy (Vaporeon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/70 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish
- Surf
- Protect

Arguably the crux of the team. Vaporeon devours the Waterfalls and Surfs my team is so weak to, and always counters Gyarados with HP Electric. Vappy also offers valuable Wish support - he doesn't do a lot more than Wishing and absorbing water attacks, but this is more than enough.

Barricade (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roar
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

My physical wall. I often draw Thunderbolts with Vaporeon and switch to Hippowdon, dealing more damage if Sand is already in effect (if not, often wasting a turn of theirs.) He is almost completely walled by Skarmory though, particularly if they choose to Whirlwind. A different set might be more effective (Ice Fang?) but I've had little success trying them out. A back up SR and a powerful EQ after surviving a SD Lucario is pretty beefy though.

Armorhide (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP/56 SAtk/204 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Heatran has been one of my most solid performers. He absorbs Fire Blasts from lead Heatran directed at Azelf and Fire thrown at Metagross, then strikes back with STAB Lava Plume (30% burn chance!) or Earth Power on other pokes. He also absorbs status with Rest Talk, but this is dangerous on Breloom and takes a bit of luck - Lava Plume will OHKO Breloom, but there's only a 1/3 chance of casting it and Focus Punch can be dangerous when a Sub is up.

Serious Threats

Off the top of my head, this list is def. not complete. I'll add more as they come to mind (CM Jirachi, I'm looking at you!)

Swampert - This guy is pretty close to Public Enemy #1 - without Metagross and Grass Knot, he eventually sweeps my entire team, barring a crit from Tyranitar. Same goes for Suicune, though this is less of a problem - CM outraces Vaporeon's HP Electric though.

Scizor - Scizor sweeps me hard, and Scizor sweeps me good. Bullet Punch murders a fair portion of my team, and Superpower tears Tyranitar and Heatran to pieces. If I can survive and fire off a Lava Plume, or outrace with T-Tar's Fire Blast, this is winnable, but still quite difficult.

Final Thoughts

Thank you for taking the time to look over my RMT - I'm open to whatever changes you have to offer, from different EVs and movesets to swapping out half the team. I'd like to keep this team on the bulky side - fast but fragile offense hasn't been doing too hot in the metagame as of late. Again, thank you for taking the time to look over this!

Eternal · May 21st, 2009, 4:06:41 PM

I'd say SD Lucario is much more of a threat to your team than Scizor. I suggest replacing Hippowdon with Gliscor. This way you're safe from Scizor and Lucario and Machamp. Your team is seriously weak to Machamp. Nothing in your team can take a Dynamic Punch and be safe. Adding Gliscor would be a big help (plus the sand veil boost).

**tab** · May 21st, 2009, 4:10:05 PM

Hi, and welcome to Smogon!

Having two copies of SR is a terrible idea to be honest. If you want to make sure you can put SR down again if it's removed, you could run a Swampert lead, or even just run a non-SR lead seeing as you have Hippo. Alternatively, you could run a Skarmory and have both Stealth Rock and Spikes, which will help hugely in weakening teams while you play off your resistences and force switches.

I'd run a Substitute+Leftovers Heatran instead of RestTalk. While RestTalk is useful for its ability to switch in, Heatran works well enough with Vaporeon that you should be able to Wish pass a lot of the time that it's needed, while Substitute + a third attack (HP Grass, Toxic or Dragon Pulse) both eases prediction hugely, helps to lure in and either take out counters (Swampert) with HP, or cripple them with Toxic, as well as being capable of sweeping a weakened team from behind a Sub, which is easy enough to manage with pokemon like Scizor being everywhere.
Should you run a more offensive Heatran like I suggest, run Timid with and EV spread of 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed and 4 HP.

I'd consider making Metagross your Choice Scarfer, and then giving Tyranitar either a mixed set to handle your wallbreaking needs, or a Choice Band set to Pursuit threats and open up windows for the rest of your team. Alternatively, you could use a Choice Band Scizor over Metagross, again in combination with either of the previously mentioned Tyranitar sets. U-turn, especially if you have Stealth Rock (and even a layer or two of Spikes if you go with Skarmory), is great at building up residual damage to let another team member sweep, and Bullet Punch lets you revenge kill a lot of threats, reducing the teams need for a Scarfer. However, using Scizor does make your team somewhat vulnerable to SD Lucario, but CB Bullet Punch can usually take out Lucario after it's used Close Combat on something. Losing Grass Knot isn't a big deal as long as you run HP Grass or Toxic on Heatran, who makes for a great Swampert lure.
Alternatively, you could use a ScarfTran over your current RestTalk set, although that depends on whether you're confident enough to play around Swampert rather than having a lure that can hit it with a grass attack.

As for your threat list, Scizor can be easily dealt with by Heatran. If your current spread is outsped by Scizor, you could look into adding some speed EVs, assuming you keep it as a RestTalker.

Arin - the current team has no problems whatsoever with SD Lucario, Tyranitar revenge kills it easily.

Bingleton · May 21st, 2009, 4:22:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arin

I'd say SD Lucario is much more of a threat to your team than Scizor. I suggest replacing Hippowdon with Gliscor. This way you're safe from Scizor and Lucario and Machamp. Your team is seriously weak to Machamp. Nothing in your team can take a Dynamic Punch and be safe. Adding Gliscor would be a big help (plus the sand veil boost).

My main concern with moving in Gliscor is losing Sand Stream - Tyranitar is not durable enough in the current environment to consistently throw up Sandstorm by itself. I'm not too worried about SD Lucario, Hippowdon always survives one hit and EQs (this is assuming one SD, of course.) Machamp is definitely a problem (Fighting types in general) but I really don't know about Gliscor in Hippowdon's stead unless I run Sandstorm on it or something (which is kind of weird and might not end well.)

**tab** · May 21st, 2009, 4:24:50 PM

One Sandstream pokemon should be more than enough. Unless you walk into a fighting attack with Tyranitar early on, it's going to be sticking around long enough to do its job, not to mention you're very, very rarely going to have to put up Sandstorm a second time in a battle. Pretty much all the weather that's used in OU is Sandstorm with the rare Hail and Rain teams, both of which Tyranitar should be able to stay alive against for long enough to stop them from having it up all that often.

Eternal · May 21st, 2009, 4:26:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bingleton

My main concern with moving in Gliscor is losing Sand Stream - Tyranitar is not durable enough in the current environment to consistently throw up Sandstorm by itself. I'm not too worried about SD Lucario, Hippowdon always survives one hit and EQs (this is assuming one SD, of course.) Machamp is definitely a problem (Fighting types in general) but I really don't know about Gliscor in Hippowdon's stead unless I run Sandstorm on it or something (which is kind of weird and might not end well.)

There should be no concern in maintaining sandstorm. There's nothing ok with your team to maintain sandstorm. Would you rather maintain Sandstorm then get your team easily swept by Machamp or Lucario? Hippowdon weakened can easily lead to your team being late game swept by Lucario.

Bingleton · May 21st, 2009, 4:29:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tab

Hi, and welcome to Smogon!

Having two copies of SR is a terrible idea to be honest. If you want to make sure you can put SR down again if it's removed, you could run a Swampert lead, or even just run a non-SR lead seeing as you have Hippo. Alternatively, you could run a Skarmory and have both Stealth Rock and Spikes, which will help hugely in weakening teams while you play off your resistences and force switches.

I can see the wisdom in that, occasionally it's been irritating running two SRs, but one is often hit with Rapid Spin and it's my only entry hazard - cut SR on Azelf before Hippowdon though, right? Are you suggesting Skarm as a lead? That might be interesting, but it doesn't seem like it would be fast enough to survive against most common leads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tab

I'd run a Substitute+Leftovers Heatran instead of RestTalk. While RestTalk is useful for its ability to switch in, Heatran works well enough with Vaporeon that you should be able to Wish pass a lot of the time that it's needed, while Substitute + a third attack (HP Grass, Toxic or Dragon Pulse) both eases prediction hugely, helps to lure in and either take out counters (Swampert) with HP, or cripple them with Toxic, as well as being capable of sweeping a weakened team from behind a Sub, which is easy enough to manage with pokemon like Scizor being everywhere.
Should you run a more offensive Heatran like I suggest, run Timid with and EV spread of 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed and 4 HP.

Currently, Heatran is sort of my special wall - you don't think having one is critical to the team? I'm going to try that Heatran now that you've mentioned it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tab

I'd consider making Metagross your Choice Scarfer, and then giving Tyranitar either a mixed set to handle your wallbreaking needs, or a Choice Band set to Pursuit threats and open up windows for the rest of your team. Alternatively, you could use a Choice Band Scizor over Metagross, again in combination with either of the previously mentioned Tyranitar sets. U-turn, especially if you have Stealth Rock (and even a layer or two of Spikes if you go with Skarmory), is great at building up residual damage to let another team member sweep, and Bullet Punch lets you revenge kill a lot of threats, reducing the teams need for a Scarfer. However, using Scizor does make your team somewhat vulnerable to SD Lucario, but CB Bullet Punch can usually take out Lucario after it's used Close Combat on something. Losing Grass Knot isn't a big deal as long as you run HP Grass or Toxic on Heatran, who makes for a great Swampert lure.
Alternatively, you could use a ScarfTran over your current RestTalk set, although that depends on whether you're confident enough to play around Swampert rather than having a lure that can hit it with a grass attack.

What would you run on a Scarfed Metagross - standard Smogon set? Definitely taking that into consideration, I used to run a mixed Tyranitar but it fell kind of easily to a lot of other pokes, I'm going to try that again with your suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tab

As for your threat list, Scizor can be easily dealt with by Heatran. If your current spread is outsped by Scizor, you could look into adding some speed EVs, assuming you keep it as a RestTalker.

Brick Break/Superpower destroys Heatran, but Lava Plume does wreck Scizor if I can get it in. Moving in Speed EVs from Sdef on Heatran?

**tab** · May 21st, 2009, 4:36:47 PM

Don't use Skarmory as a lead, just replace Hippowdon with it if you want a second set of entry hazards. In that case, consider dropping Azelf for Swampert to get up Rocks as well as having a ground type, seeing as this is bulky offense leaning towards a sort of stallish playstyle, suicide leads are going to be decent at best for you.

Heatran can come in on a lot of special attacks even without the defensive EV spread and RestTalk, the best way to deal with special threats is to use resistances rather than designating one team member to sponge them all (unless you have Blissey, which I wouldn't recommend here). With Flash Fire and Heatran's great typing, you can come in regularly enough, especially with Wish support.

As for Scarf Metagross, I'd give the standard set in the analysis a try to start with. If you find that there's a big problem for your team that it can't deal with, you can always lose the least useful of the attacks for something to revenge kill it if needed.

Heatran can easily deal with Scizor, as long as you don't get a predicted Superpower used against you. With your current set, I'd move EVs out of Sp Atk, and then Sp Def if needed.

Revolution.Z · May 23rd, 2009, 7:38:30 AM

Cool team!

Ok first. OMG I absolutely love the mixedmeta a common forgotten pokemon! HP Fire over Shadow Ball may give extra coverage aka skarm and other metas.

Ok your looking for another Ttar set. Ah i love ttar as a wall breaker and Boah is my choice. Destroying Bliss/skarm and other walling pokemon. The standard Smogon set should be fine.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tyranitar

Look at the tyraniboah set. Incredible wall breaking capabilities.

Ok I dont see why using Hippowdon on your team is gonna help? You already have a summoner and to be honest with you Hippowdon isn't incredible at walling. Regirock Perhaps? Big defenses and boosted sp def in sand! Makes for a tough wall.

Scizor problem...Gyara/Rotom-H are really the big counters to scizor and seeing as your team looks big and bulky, bulkygyara could work easily here.

DD, Bounce, Waterfall and Sub/Stone Edge for good coverage and if you opt for Sub it blocks status such as Para and WoW

Nice team and not too much to comment on

Good Luck SF (StrategyFocus)

Star Shaper · May 23rd, 2009, 4:54:39 PM

Your main concern should not be with always having sandstorm up. Arin is right, Fighting types destroy your team. Machamp/Lucario/Heracross. I'm sure if a CB Heracross comes on anything that can't take a hit from Close Combat, whatever comes in is being 2HKOd. You should really consider Gliscor over Hippowdon.

Shimrit As · May 24th, 2009, 7:05:06 AM

Hi Bingleton

My main problem is one that has already been mentioned; your hippowdon doesnt do much for the team. There's already a sand streamer and already a stealth rocker, so he seems pretty redundant to me.

Also, the main point of suicide leads is to secure ohkos for hyper offensive teams, but from what I can see it isn't that much of a necessity here.

IIRC, metagross has no chance to ohko swampert with grass knot, even with max sp att and LO. Though you can 2hko it if you hit it on the switch in.

Scarftar is surprising but gives other pokes an easy switch in. Boah, as mentioned is a good alternative for a mix wall breaker. If you need the speed, you can fit rock polish into the set even though it opens you up to scizor's bullet punch.

Thats all, hope that was useful.

May 21st, 2009, 4:10:05 PM	#3
tab cubchoo (°ᴥ°) Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 633	Hi, and welcome to Smogon! Having two copies of SR is a terrible idea to be honest. If you want to make sure you can put SR down again if it's removed, you could run a Swampert lead, or even just run a non-SR lead seeing as you have Hippo. Alternatively, you could run a Skarmory and have both Stealth Rock and Spikes, which will help hugely in weakening teams while you play off your resistences and force switches. I'd run a Substitute+Leftovers Heatran instead of RestTalk. While RestTalk is useful for its ability to switch in, Heatran works well enough with Vaporeon that you should be able to Wish pass a lot of the time that it's needed, while Substitute + a third attack (HP Grass, Toxic or Dragon Pulse) both eases prediction hugely, helps to lure in and either take out counters (Swampert) with HP, or cripple them with Toxic, as well as being capable of sweeping a weakened team from behind a Sub, which is easy enough to manage with pokemon like Scizor being everywhere. Should you run a more offensive Heatran like I suggest, run Timid with and EV spread of 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed and 4 HP. I'd consider making Metagross your Choice Scarfer, and then giving Tyranitar either a mixed set to handle your wallbreaking needs, or a Choice Band set to Pursuit threats and open up windows for the rest of your team. Alternatively, you could use a Choice Band Scizor over Metagross, again in combination with either of the previously mentioned Tyranitar sets. U-turn, especially if you have Stealth Rock (and even a layer or two of Spikes if you go with Skarmory), is great at building up residual damage to let another team member sweep, and Bullet Punch lets you revenge kill a lot of threats, reducing the teams need for a Scarfer. However, using Scizor does make your team somewhat vulnerable to SD Lucario, but CB Bullet Punch can usually take out Lucario after it's used Close Combat on something. Losing Grass Knot isn't a big deal as long as you run HP Grass or Toxic on Heatran, who makes for a great Swampert lure. Alternatively, you could use a ScarfTran over your current RestTalk set, although that depends on whether you're confident enough to play around Swampert rather than having a lure that can hit it with a grass attack. As for your threat list, Scizor can be easily dealt with by Heatran. If your current spread is outsped by Scizor, you could look into adding some speed EVs, assuming you keep it as a RestTalker. Arin - the current team has no problems whatsoever with SD Lucario, Tyranitar revenge kills it easily. __________________ Last edited by tab; May 21st, 2009 at 4:16:01 PM.

May 21st, 2009, 4:24:50 PM	#5
tab cubchoo (°ᴥ°) Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 633	One Sandstream pokemon should be more than enough. Unless you walk into a fighting attack with Tyranitar early on, it's going to be sticking around long enough to do its job, not to mention you're very, very rarely going to have to put up Sandstorm a second time in a battle. Pretty much all the weather that's used in OU is Sandstorm with the rare Hail and Rain teams, both of which Tyranitar should be able to stay alive against for long enough to stop them from having it up all that often. __________________

May 21st, 2009, 4:36:47 PM	#8
tab cubchoo (°ᴥ°) Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 633	Don't use Skarmory as a lead, just replace Hippowdon with it if you want a second set of entry hazards. In that case, consider dropping Azelf for Swampert to get up Rocks as well as having a ground type, seeing as this is bulky offense leaning towards a sort of stallish playstyle, suicide leads are going to be decent at best for you. Heatran can come in on a lot of special attacks even without the defensive EV spread and RestTalk, the best way to deal with special threats is to use resistances rather than designating one team member to sponge them all (unless you have Blissey, which I wouldn't recommend here). With Flash Fire and Heatran's great typing, you can come in regularly enough, especially with Wish support. As for Scarf Metagross, I'd give the standard set in the analysis a try to start with. If you find that there's a big problem for your team that it can't deal with, you can always lose the least useful of the attacks for something to revenge kill it if needed. Heatran can easily deal with Scizor, as long as you don't get a predicted Superpower used against you. With your current set, I'd move EVs out of Sp Atk, and then Sp Def if needed. __________________

May 23rd, 2009, 7:38:30 AM	#9
Revolution.Z Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 262 In the Eye of The Tornado	Cool team! Ok first. OMG I absolutely love the mixedmeta a common forgotten pokemon! HP Fire over Shadow Ball may give extra coverage aka skarm and other metas. Ok your looking for another Ttar set. Ah i love ttar as a wall breaker and Boah is my choice. Destroying Bliss/skarm and other walling pokemon. The standard Smogon set should be fine. http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tyranitar Look at the tyraniboah set. Incredible wall breaking capabilities. Ok I dont see why using Hippowdon on your team is gonna help? You already have a summoner and to be honest with you Hippowdon isn't incredible at walling. Regirock Perhaps? Big defenses and boosted sp def in sand! Makes for a tough wall. Scizor problem...Gyara/Rotom-H are really the big counters to scizor and seeing as your team looks big and bulky, bulkygyara could work easily here. DD, Bounce, Waterfall and Sub/Stone Edge for good coverage and if you opt for Sub it blocks status such as Para and WoW Nice team and not too much to comment on Good Luck SF (StrategyFocus) __________________ Took a hiatus haters now I'm back to cause trouble?

May 23rd, 2009, 4:54:39 PM	#10
Star Shaper Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61	Your main concern should not be with always having sandstorm up. Arin is right, Fighting types destroy your team. Machamp/Lucario/Heracross. I'm sure if a CB Heracross comes on anything that can't take a hit from Close Combat, whatever comes in is being 2HKOd. You should really consider Gliscor over Hippowdon. __________________ Loki: i mostly win via a combo of luck and trashtalking

May 21st, 2009, 3:54:48 PM	#1
Bingleton Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3	Team Sand Attack (Bulky Offensive OU) Introduction A dedicated Sandstorm team? Whaaaaaat? I was less than keen on playing a weather team at first, but after a lot of tinkering I got to a team that suits my switch-heavy playstyle, with several immunities and boosts. It's been solid in playtesting, but does poorly against several common threats and has problems with stall teams (Spikes and Toxic Spikes in particular, probably because of the lack of a Rapid Spinner.) Sand Attack At A Glance Crumplezone (Azelf) @ Focus Sash Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Fire Blast - Explosion - Stealth Rock - Psychic Suicide Azelf scouts out opposing leads - usually, I throw up an SR and attack. Fire Blast and Psychic are surprisingly effective against a lot of common leads (Metagross, Abomasnow, Infernape, Lucario) and failing that, Explosion will knock out a lead the rest of my team has difficulty with (such as Swampert.) Occasionally, I'll pull back Azelf after throwing up the initial SR and switch in something else, saving that last-ditch Explosion for a future threat. Shockwave (Metagross) @ Expert Belt Ability: Clear Body EVs: 252 Atk/132 Spd/124 SAtk Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef) - Meteor Mash - Earthquake - Grass Knot - Shadow Ball I brought in Metagross when I began having too much trouble with Bulky Waters (particularly Swampert.) Metagross is a very solid sweeper, but a little fragile for my tastes - still, it makes up for it in pure power, often OHKOing rival Tyranitar (assuming it outspeeds them) and EQing numerous others. I usually bring him in to clear out Blissey as well. Rampage (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Sand Stream EVs: 120 HP/136 Atk/252 Spd Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def) - Crunch - Fire Blast - Ice Beam - Earthquake Nominally, the centerpiece of the team. (Wait a minute to find out who really runs the show.) Scarfed Tyranitar outruns most Pokes but has big problems with priority attacks (Mach Punch and Bullet Punch.) It's a very solid wallbreaker, however, and often manages a revenge kill against Heatran and Gengar. Choice can be problematic though, and switching him in and out can be irritating - I may be looking to switch to a different set on Tyranitar. Frenzy (Vaporeon) (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Water Absorb EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/70 Spd Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Hidden Power [Electric] - Wish - Surf - Protect Arguably the crux of the team. Vaporeon devours the Waterfalls and Surfs my team is so weak to, and always counters Gyarados with HP Electric. Vappy also offers valuable Wish support - he doesn't do a lot more than Wishing and absorbing water attacks, but this is more than enough. Barricade (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 SDef Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Roar - Slack Off - Earthquake - Stealth Rock My physical wall. I often draw Thunderbolts with Vaporeon and switch to Hippowdon, dealing more damage if Sand is already in effect (if not, often wasting a turn of theirs.) He is almost completely walled by Skarmory though, particularly if they choose to Whirlwind. A different set might be more effective (Ice Fang?) but I've had little success trying them out. A back up SR and a powerful EQ after surviving a SD Lucario is pretty beefy though. Armorhide (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 248 HP/56 SAtk/204 SDef Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Earth Power - Lava Plume - Rest - Sleep Talk Heatran has been one of my most solid performers. He absorbs Fire Blasts from lead Heatran directed at Azelf and Fire thrown at Metagross, then strikes back with STAB Lava Plume (30% burn chance!) or Earth Power on other pokes. He also absorbs status with Rest Talk, but this is dangerous on Breloom and takes a bit of luck - Lava Plume will OHKO Breloom, but there's only a 1/3 chance of casting it and Focus Punch can be dangerous when a Sub is up. Serious Threats Off the top of my head, this list is def. not complete. I'll add more as they come to mind (CM Jirachi, I'm looking at you!) Swampert - This guy is pretty close to Public Enemy #1 - without Metagross and Grass Knot, he eventually sweeps my entire team, barring a crit from Tyranitar. Same goes for Suicune, though this is less of a problem - CM outraces Vaporeon's HP Electric though. Scizor - Scizor sweeps me hard, and Scizor sweeps me good. Bullet Punch murders a fair portion of my team, and Superpower tears Tyranitar and Heatran to pieces. If I can survive and fire off a Lava Plume, or outrace with T-Tar's Fire Blast, this is winnable, but still quite difficult. Final Thoughts Thank you for taking the time to look over my RMT - I'm open to whatever changes you have to offer, from different EVs and movesets to swapping out half the team. I'd like to keep this team on the bulky side - fast but fragile offense hasn't been doing too hot in the metagame as of late. Again, thank you for taking the time to look over this!

May 21st, 2009, 4:06:41 PM	#2
Eternal Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,522 NYC	I'd say SD Lucario is much more of a threat to your team than Scizor. I suggest replacing Hippowdon with Gliscor. This way you're safe from Scizor and Lucario and Machamp. Your team is seriously weak to Machamp. Nothing in your team can take a Dynamic Punch and be safe. Adding Gliscor would be a big help (plus the sand veil boost).

May 24th, 2009, 7:05:06 AM	#11
Shimrit As Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 270 Singapore	Hi Bingleton My main problem is one that has already been mentioned; your hippowdon doesnt do much for the team. There's already a sand streamer and already a stealth rocker, so he seems pretty redundant to me. Also, the main point of suicide leads is to secure ohkos for hyper offensive teams, but from what I can see it isn't that much of a necessity here. IIRC, metagross has no chance to ohko swampert with grass knot, even with max sp att and LO. Though you can 2hko it if you hit it on the switch in. Scarftar is surprising but gives other pokes an easy switch in. Boah, as mentioned is a good alternative for a mix wall breaker. If you need the speed, you can fit rock polish into the set even though it opens you up to scizor's bullet punch. Thats all, hope that was useful.