CAP 8 - Part 14a - Complete Movepool Submissions - Page 2

Roserade Raider · May 17th, 2009, 1:37:42 PM

i agree with gothic togekiss, and i also really like deck knight's

Umbreon Dan · May 17th, 2009, 2:54:09 PM

So I fixed mine up a bit (with help from Cyzir). It now include Earthquake as a TM and Growth and Crunch as Egg moves. Growth is illegal with most others.

bugmaniacbob · May 17th, 2009, 4:34:57 PM

I love this part.

Code:

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM17 - Protect
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM50 - Overheat
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM78 - Captivate
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM90 - Substitute
HM04 – Strength

Notable omissions:
Roar - It learns Whirlwind via level-up, so no difference made.
Taunt - Cyclohm has considerable speed; shutting down walls and pseudo-hazers encourages offensive-minded sets, which I do not believe was the assumed role for it to play.
Ice Beam - I would greatly dislike this pokemon if it turned out as another BoltBeam option. Anyway, it has Hydro Pump for Ground, Fire Blast for Grass, and its own Dragon and Electric STABs for Dragon and Flying Pokemon, respectively. If you're desperate, you can run Blizzard.
Earthquake - Is an egg move (see below).
Energy Ball/Grass Knot - It can Draco Meteor against Swampert, who would be the only reason to use these (also cannot see a cloud tripping people over with grass ropes).
Stone Edge/Rock Slide - All this coverage is already provided in other options. Not very much power when unboosted.
Psychic/Shadow Ball - Both largely expendable; low base power and no important coverage.
Surf -Hydro Pump is already available as an egg move.

Code:

H. Tri Attack
H. Thunder Fang
H. Weather Ball
5. Dragon Rage
10. Charge
12. Dragonbreath
23. Whirlwind
29. Ancientpower
34. Haze
38. Smokescreen
46. Smog
51. Discharge
55. Mist
62. Hyper Voice
70. Zap Cannon

Moves with competitive value:
Whirlwind, Thunder Fang, Haze, (possibly) Discharge

Code:

Glare (Seviper/Arbok)
Dragon Dance (Kingdra/Salamence/Altaria/Dragonite/Gyarados/Charizard)
Detect (Sceptile)
Slam (Sceptile/Dragonite/Arbok)
Recover (Milotic)
Thrash (Gyarados/Salamence/Garchomp)
Yawn (Kingdra)
Hydro Pump (Gyarados/Milotic/Kingdra/Salamence)
Earthquake (Smeargle -----> Arbok)

The ability to use Recover forgoes the ability to run Earthquake or Dragon Dance. Other than this, the other moves of note are Glare, Yawn and Hydro Pump.

Code:

Signal Beam
Outrage
Heat Wave
Draco Meteor
Magnet Rise
Twister
Vacuum Wave
Air Cutter
Icy Wind
Ominous Wind

Signal Beam/Magnet Rise - learned by nearly all Electric-types; Signal Beam gets a far larger hit on Celebi as well as helping with Ludicolo, Magnet Rise cancels its most glaring weakness.
Outrage/Draco Meteor - Given to, I think, every Dragon.
Heat Wave - Fits both the 'weather' concept and the 'dragon' concept.

Sc4rfCh0mp · May 17th, 2009, 4:40:52 PM

I made a few changes to my movepool, since I wanted to put some additional moves in that I missed for flavor. Water Gun and Mist Ball replaced Growth(which replaced Stomp as an egg move) and Whirlwind. Roar and Water Pulse were added to the TMs list. The Punches were taken out of the tutors pool (again flavor, and physical is only a gimmick for Cyclohm most of the time) and replaced with Icy Wind, Snore, Uproar, and Ancientpower.

Hohahihehu · May 17th, 2009, 5:01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight

I've already used up all my competitive moveslots on more important things, but I don't really think Weather Ball suits Cyclohm much. Flamethrower and Surf have the same approximate power in the corresponding weather, special attackers without SS immunity don't function well in Sandstorm, and an Ice move is probably useless if someone has summoned Auto-hail, unless you have Abomasnow on your team to surprise SS users for the fun of it.

Weather Ball suits Cyclohm from a flavor perspective, and it isn't considered a "competive move," so you don't have to worry about it taking up a slot. According to the CAP guide, the only usually competitive Normal type special moves are Hyper Beam, Tri Attack, Hyper Voice and Swift. Considering that it isn't included in the Attacking Moves list for Cyclohm, it isn't competitive on Cyclohm. Someone might use Weather Ball on a gimmick set, but I don't see anyone using Double hit, so you might as well stick it on there.

Petope · May 17th, 2009, 5:26:46 PM

There are alot of good sets that I like but all of them is missing the move I want to se the most. Power Trick, please someone add this move because I think it could be usefull.

hydrolphin · May 17th, 2009, 6:27:22 PM

Level Up Moves

Code:

Level Up:
Lv. 1-Twister
Lv. 1-Leer
Lv. 9-Thunder Fang
Lv. 12-Peck
Lv.17-Double Hit
Lv. 25-Charge
Lv. 29-Dragonbreath
Lv. 32-Stun Spore
Lv. 38-Haze
Lv. 40-Discharge
Lv. 45-Bug Buzz
Lv. 51-Thunderbolt
Lv. 64-Ice Ball
Lv. 70-Tri-Attack

The level up moveset has a lot a good moves, but nothing groundbreaking.
Notables:
Charge-Solid move, but unlikely to be used.
Stun Spore-Paralysis on Grounds ftw!
Discharge-If you want extra paralysis instead of power.
Bug Buzz-Coverage, if you like Bug type moves.
Tri-Attack and Ice Ball-Uneeded moves that are fun!

TM Moves:

Code:

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM54 - False Swipe
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM78 - Captivate
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM05 – Defog

Pretty Basic. Note the lack of any fire moves, but the inclusion of Surf and Roar. (More on the fire moves later)

Egg Moves: (Monster)

Code:

Overheat
Slack Off
Curse
Yawn
Stomp
Disable
Take Down
Snore

I haven't don the full compatable-ness yet, but Overheat and Slack Off are NOT compatable. Slowbro gives Cyclohm Slack Off, while Charizard gives Overheat to him. I originally intended to do this with Flamethrower too, but Slowbro just has to randomly learn both it and FB. Also, Yawn and Curse are included.

Tutor Moves

Code:

Draco Meteor
Fury Cutter
Knock Off
Heat Wave
Icy Wind
Ominous Wind
Helping Hand
Snore
Swift
Uproar
Rollout
Outrage
Signal Beam
Twister

Not much here is competetive: only Draco Meteor, Knock Off, and Heat Wave. Heat Wave is compatable with Slack Off, so, if you really want Recovery+Fire, you can have it.

What this movepool lacks:
Flamethrower and Fire Blast-you have options for both consistant and high powered fire moves, so these were seen as uneeded, (though I really did want F-Thrower over Overheat in the egg moves)
Dragon Dance-People have an obsesion with this move. I decided to leave it out so you don't have to deal with the random DD set.
Volt Tackle-With no DD this is useless-so its not here obviously
Slack Off+Overheat-I didn't really like the prospect of these to powerful moves together, hence, they aren't. However, if you want healing, Heat Wave or Surf can take over the void Overheat left. Similarly, Overheat and Surf work together.
As for support, Cyclohm has plenty of it: Knock Off, Light Screen, T-Wave, Stun Spore, and Roar. All can work on a defensively minded Cyclohm. Reflect isn't included as, well, it doesn't really need it.

However, the most awesome move in this movepool is obviously Ice Ball. Its like rollout, except Ice-typed, and cooler. Cyclohm also learns rollout by tutor, so you could use a gimmick set like Ice Ball/ Rollout/ Curse/ Outrage. Fun stuff.

**Korski** · May 18th, 2009, 12:17:13 AM

Alright first edits done and I think it's a lot better. See bottom of post for synopsis of changes.

Level-up Moves:

Code:

H - Weather Ball
H - Morning Sun
1 - Tackle
1 - Growl
7 - Thundershock
10 - Leer
13 - Thunder Wave
15 - Twister
19 - Glare
21 - Discharge
24 - Dragon Claw
30 - Thunderbolt
38 - Power Trick
46 - Dragon Dance
56 - Dragon Pulse
68 - Volt Tackle

Competitive non-TM moves: Morning Sun, Discharge

TMs/HMs:

Code:

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash

Egg Moves (Dragon/Monster):

Code:

Heat Wave - Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard, Dragonite, Swablu, Altaria, Salamence
Recover - Milotic
Mirror Coat - Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Milotic
Aromatherapy - Chikorita, Bayleef, Meganium
Charge - Mareep, Flaffy, Ampharos
Aqua Tail - Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Slowpoke, Slowbro, Lickitung, Rhyhorn, Rhydon, Kangaskhan, Gyarados, Lapras, Dratini, Dragonair, Dragonite, Totodile, Crocinaw, Feraligatr, Slowking, Tyranitar, Mudkip, Marshtomp, Swampert, Aggron, Seviper, Milotic, Salamence, Garchomp, Lickilicky, Rhyperior 
Yawn - Slowpoke, Slowbro, Snorlax, Slowking, Kingdra, Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise
Tickle - Lapras, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra
Focus Energy - Nidoran (m), Nidorino, Nidoking, Nidoran (f), Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Cubone, Marowak, Horsea, Seadra, Kingdra, Bagon, Shelgon, Larvitar, Pupitar, Tyranitar, Shieldon, Bastiodon, Salamence, Cranidos, Rampardos
Double-Edge - Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, Venusaur, Cubone, Marowak, Aron, Lairon, Aggron, Bagon, Shelgon, Salamence, Snorlax, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra, Cranidos, Rampardos, Shieldon, Bastiodon, Gible, Gabite, Garchomp, Snover, Abomasnow

Competitive Moves: Recover, Aromatherapy, Mirror Coat, Heat Wave

Legal Egg Combos (forgetting Focus Energy and Double-Edge, which are in all cases rather useless):
Heat Wave + Aqua Tail (Dragonite, Salamence)
Recover + Mirror Coat + Aqua Tail (Milotic)
Mirror Coat + Aqua Tail (Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Milotic)
Charge and Aromatherapy are both completely exclusive

Move Tutor:

Code:

Counter
Metronome
Mimic
Icy Wind
Seismic Toss
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
Vacuum Wave
Swift
Magnet Rise
AncientPower
Outrage
Signal Beam
Draco Meteor

Synopsis:

Physical attacks (for DD sets): Outrage, Shadow Claw, Facade, Return, Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Aqua Tail.

Special attacks of potential worth: Discharge, Thunderbolt, Dragon Pulse, Thunder, Hidden Power, Shadow Ball, Psychic, Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Charge Beam, Surf, Vacuum Wave, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Draco Meteor.

Non-attacking moves of potential worth: Morning Sun, Thunder Wave, Glare, Roar, Toxic, Hail, Dragon Dance, Sunny Day, Taunt, Light Screen, Protect, Rain Dance, Reflect, Rest, Stealth Rock, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Recover, Aromatherapy, Mirror Coat, Charge, Counter, Knock Off, Magnet Rise, Yawn

And some notes:

Sunny Day + Rain Dance + Hail + Sandstorm + Morning Sun + Weatherball for flavor.

Morning Sun is the only form of recovery that is legal with Heat Wave, Yawn, Aromatherapy, Tickle, or Charge. All other moves are legal with Morning Sun and Recover.

Flamethrower, Heat Wave, and Surf are the only competitive Water or Fire attacks. They offer the necessary coverage without being overpowered. Since Cyclohm should be leaning defensive anyways, I don't think the sweeper-esque high-powered attacks are necessary.

No other pokemon in OU can run Counter + Mirror Coat. Also, it'll be the only pokemon outside of Deoxys-D to run both + Recover, giving it a little more surprise and niche value.

No Volt Tackle. I could only put it in level-up, but the competitive moves there both outclass it, imo, and it would be a novelty otherwise.

No Zap Cannon. 50% accuracy means no one will use it.

Signal Beam > Bug Buzz because Bug Buzz could only be level-up and would take out one of my other competitive moves, and Signal Beam is tutorable.

EDIT: I caved and added Volt Tackle (gimmicky) and Power Trick (gimmicky) to level-up moves, Heat Wave (competitive), Aqua Tail (gimmicky), Aromatherapy (competitive-ish), and Yawn (not competitive) to Egg moves, and Psychic (not competitive) to the TM list. I traded in Slack Off for Recover in terms of insta-recovery so that it would remain illegal with Heat Wave and Charge but become compatible with Mirror Coat. Now this moveset is very diverse, catering to offensive, defensive, mixed, support, and gimmick sets.

Also, it can now run Counter + Mirror Coat + Recover, which would make it the only pokemon in OU to run Counter and Mirror Coat, and the only pokemon outside of Ubers to run both plus recovery. Let me know if that's too overpowered.

There you have it. Let me know how I can make it better, pleez.

Aerodactyl Legend · May 18th, 2009, 2:22:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

At the moment it looks like a toss-up between Umbreon Dan's and Aerodactyl Legend. AL has everything I'm looking for, though a bit more fine-tuning wouldn't hurt.

What parts specifically need more fine-tuning?

bumfacepik · May 18th, 2009, 4:00:58 PM

Level up moves:

Code:

HS Charm
HS Glare
HS Fake out
1 Tackle
1 Growl
5 Howl
7 Thundershock
15 Thunder wave
25 Dragon rage
30 Thunder fang 
35 Whirlwind
40 Spikes
45 Thunderbolt 
50 Dragon pulse
60 Hyper beam

Dragon pulse, Thunder wave ( maybe glare), and whirlwind, spikes are all nice moves here.

Egg moves Dragon

Code:

 
Dragonbreath
Aqua tail
Tail whip
Body slam
Pursuit
Flail

I didn't put anything notable here, pursuit may be alright but its very gimmicky.

TMs

Code:

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM09 - Bullet Seed
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day 
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM51 - Roost
TM55 - Brine
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate 
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM02 - Fly
HM07 - Waterfall

The bolded moves are moves I think could be used competitively. I didn't want this moveset to be a jack of all trades moveset, something more predictable. Think of this making it a special metagross.

Move tutors

Code:

 
Draco meteor
Synthesis
Trick

Very very important moves. Draco meteor could be used for a powerful STAB. Synthesis is a usefull healing move, and trick is usefull for a choice Trick set.
I'm open to all feedback. This is my first moveset so it will probably need lots.

zarator · May 18th, 2009, 4:12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bumfacepik

Level up moves:

Code:

HS Charm
HS Glare
HS Fake out
1 Tackle
1 Growl
5 Howl
7 Thundershock
15 Thunder wave
25 Dragon rage
30 Thunder fang 
35 Whirlwind
40 Tri attack
45 Thunderbolt 
50 Dragon pulse
60 Hyper beam

Dragon pulse, Thunder wave ( maybe glare), and whirlwind are all nice moves here.

You do not need to highlight level-up moves that the Pokémon obtain anyway as TMs. They are not really "additions", since the Pokémon would have obtained them anyway. Here, the only noteworthy moves are, as you said, Glare (without "maybe"^^ it is a lot more exclusive than Thunderwave, so it is much more interesting to point out) and Whirlwind. I'd add also Howl to a minor extent since you did not include Dragon Dance.

Egg moves Dragon

Code:

 
Dragonbreath
Aqua tail
Tail whip
Body slam
Pursuit
Flail

I didn't put anything notable here, pursuit may be alright but its very gimmicky.

TMs

Code:

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM09 - Bullet Seed
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day 
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM51 - Roost
TM55 - Brine
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate 
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM02 - Fly
HM07 - Waterfall

The bolded moves are moves I think could be used competitively. I didn't want this moveset to be a jack of all trades moveset, something more predictable. Think of this making it a special metagross.

Reflect is competitive, too. Hell, it was even controversial. You really need to bold it too, there's no excuse.

I'm open to all feedback. This is my first moveset so it will probably need lots.

Hope it helped

bumfacepik · May 18th, 2009, 4:25:41 PM

Ahh thanks, I forgot to bold that. I changed a few other things around too.
Edit:I forgot movetutor moves. Ill have those up in a moment.

**Elevator Music** · May 18th, 2009, 5:03:28 PM

DK/tennis's is perfect and is pretty much what I invisioned

heheh Spiffy used Slack Off

**Deck Knight** · May 18th, 2009, 5:28:31 PM

When did special Ice Moves become non-competitive? Ice Beam still outdamages STAB Dragon Pulse on Salamence and Flygon and hits Zapdos for SE damage.

We never approved of Ice Moves in the Attacking Moves Discussion.

Also Added Weather Ball as a Heart Scale move. Its best use is probably solely vs. Zapdos in a Sandstorm. Otherwise I'm hard-pressed to think of instances where it is superior to Thunderbolt, considering the most common OU Fire types are Infernape and Heatran, and Weavile fails to function in Sandstorm and additionally hates paralysis.

Robo-Ky · May 18th, 2009, 5:34:31 PM

Small edit made, I'll be making this my Final Submission.

Level-Up Moves

Code:

H. Tri Attack
H. Slack Off
1. Thundershock
1. Leer
5. Charge
8. Thunder Wave
14. Spark
20. Dragonbreath
25. Mist
31. Rain Dance
36. Whirlwind
43. Weather Ball
48. Mirror Coat
53. Dragon Dance
59. Dragon Pulse
67. Thunder

TM/HM Moves

Code:

TM02-Dragon Claw
TM03-Water Pulse
TM05-Roar
TM06-Toxic
TM07-Hail
TM10-Hidden Power
TM11-Sunny Day
TM12-Taunt
TM15-Hyper Beam
TM16-Light Screen
TM17-Protect
TM18-Rain Dance
TM20-Safeguard
TM21-Frustration
TM23-Iron Tail
TM24-Thunderbolt
TM25-Thunder
TM26-Earthquake
TM27-Return
TM30-Shadow Ball
TM32-Double Team
TM33-Reflect
TM34-Shock Wave
TM35-Flamethrower
TM38-Fire Blast
TM41-Torment
TM42-Façade
TM43-Secret Power
TM44-Rest
TM45-Attract
TM50-Overheat
TM57-Charge Beam
TM58-Endure
TM59-Dragon Pulse
TM62-Silver Wind
TM65-Shadow Claw
TM66-Payback
TM68-Giga Impact
TM70-Flash
TM73-Thunder Wave
TM76-Stealth Rock
TM77-Psych Up
TM78-Captivate
TM82-Sleep Talk
TM83-Natural Gift
TM87-Swagger
TM90-Substitute
TM92-Trick Room
HM03-Surf
HM04-Strength
HM06-Rock Smash

Egg Moves (Dragon, Monster)

Code:

Yawn (Kingdra, Slowbro, Slowking)
Scary Face (Salamence, Charizard)
Curse (Slowbro, Slowking, Torterra)
Hydro Pump (Blastoise, Gyarados, Feraligatr, Kingdra)
Fire Spin (Charizard)
Slam (Dragonite, Sceptile)
Dragon Rush (Dragonite, Garchomp)
Refresh (Altaria, Milotic)
Discharge (Ampharos)

Move Tutor Moves

Code:

Draco Meteor
Air Cutter
Ominous Wind
Vacuum Wave
Magnet Rise
Snore
Swift
Uproar
AncientPower
Aqua Tail
Outrage
Signal Beam
Counter
Knock Off

Standout Moves
Physical: Outrage, Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Return, Aqua Tail

Special: Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Discharge, Signal Beam, Vacuum Wave, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Tri Attack, Shadow Ball, Surf, Hydro Pump

Support: Slack Off, Thunder Wave, Whirlwind (Roar), Mirror Coat, Dragon Dance, Taunt, Light Screen, Reflect, Stealth Rock, Yawn, Curse, Counter, Knock Off

Exclusions
-Volt Tackle. It would only be even remotely viable on a Dragon Dance set, and I don't think that this should be used as a physical attacker, anyway.

-Bug Buzz. I really don't see it fitting on this Pokemon, and Signal Beam is already a decent option, though I am still torn on this one, so if enough people give good enough reasons for it, I will add it in.

Corn Snake · May 18th, 2009, 6:50:11 PM

My turn. I'm new to this.
Level Up

Code:

1. Weather Ball
5. Twister
5. Gust
12. Mist
18. Charge
21. Tailwind
27. Rain Dance
27. Sunny Day
32. ThunderBolt
38. DragonBreath
41. Heat Wave
46. Haze
52. Thunder Fang
59. Tri Attack
65. Dragon Claw
73. Thunder

Egg Moves Dragon/ Monster

Code:

Yawn 
Outrage 
Hydro Pump 
Crunch 
Reflect 
Dragon 
Dragon 
Ice Beam

TMs/ HMs

Code:

TM02    Dragon Claw
TM03    Water Pulse
TM05    Roar
TM06    Toxic
TM07    Hail
TM10    Hidden Power
TM12    Taunt
TM15    Hyper Beam
TM17    Protect
TM18    Rain Dance
TM20    Safeguard
TM21    Frustration
TM23    Iron Tail
TM24    Thunderbolt
TM25    Thunder
TM27    Return
TM29    Psychic
TM30    Shadow Ball
TM31    Brick Break
TM32    Double Team
TM34    Shock Wave
TM35    Flamethrower
TM38    Fire Blast
TM40    Aerial Ace
TM41    Torment
TM42    Facade
TM43    Secret Power
TM44    Rest
TM45    Attract
TM46    Thief
TM51    Roost
TM56    Fling
TM57    Charge Beam
TM58    Endure
TM59    Dragon Pulse
TM62    Silver Wind
TM63    Embargo
TM65    Shadow Claw
TM68    Giga Impact
TM70    Flash
TM73    Thunder Wave
TM77    Psych Up
TM78    Captivate
TM79    Dark Pulse
TM80    Rock Slide
TM82    Sleep Talk
TM83    Natural Gift
TM87    Swagger
TM88    Pluck
TM90    Substitute
TM91    Flash Cannon
HM03    Surf
HM04    Strength
HM05    Defog
HM06    Rock Smash

Tutor Moves

Code:

Air cutter
Icy Wind
Ominous Wind
Vacuum Wave 
ThunderPunch
Zen Headbutt
Magnet Rise
Snore
Uproar
Bounce
Aqua Tail
Outrage
Signal Beam
Twister
Draco Meteor

That's pretty much it.

Sc4rfCh0mp · May 18th, 2009, 10:19:19 PM

Apart from my own, DK's is looking pretty nice. I have a quick comment to make on bumfacepik's movepool- since Fake Out was never approved in the Attacking(or Support?) Moves Discussion, it can't be used, which is also why nobody is using Ice Beam/Blizzard.

Gir! · May 18th, 2009, 10:39:43 PM

Deck Knight, as always, posted a marvelous Movepool, access to a good recovery move, option to use a gimmick DD set, egg moves with really good compatibility and the not always needed, but certainly good to see flavor moves

**Korski** · May 18th, 2009, 11:30:10 PM

Honest question from a movepool n00b re: DK's movepool:

Quote:

From the 13 to 16 different moves that you're going to write (including the Heart Scale moves), make sure that only one, two, or three of them are competitive moves worth using that are not already learned by the TM list.

His level-up list has Gravity, Charge, Stun Spore, Discharge, Slack Off, Dragon Dance, and Volt Tackle as competitive non-TM moves.

Quote:

Make sure that, from your egg move list, you don't have more than four that are competitive moves worth using.

He has Yawn, Hydro Pump, Overheat, Curse, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Haze, and Block as Egg moves.

Quote:

Also, the number of viable competitive moves from the Level-up list and the egg moves list (not repeated in the TM list) combined must be between two and six.

He's got 15.

How strictly should movepool creators be following this guide? I'd like to fix up my submission a bit, and since a lot of people seem to be supporting this movepool, I was wondering if I would be able to throw some more competitive moves in the level-up and egg sections as well.

**Deck Knight** · May 18th, 2009, 11:52:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat admiral_korski

Honest question from a movepool n00b re: DK's movepool:

His level-up list has Gravity (LOL), Charge (LOL), Stun Spore (Thunder Wave - Accuracy + Hits Ground types), Discharge (Yes, on low-power support sets), Slack Off (yes), Dragon Dance (gimmick at best), and Volt Tackle (see Dragon Dance) as competitive non-TM moves.

He has Yawn (LOL), Hydro Pump (Yes, but not with OH), Overheat (Yes, but not with HPump), Curse (possible), Fire Fang (inferior to Fire Punch), Thunder Fang (inferior to Thunderpunch), Haze (possible), and Block (LOL) as Egg moves.

He's got 15. (More like 3 solid on Level-up, 3 in Egg. The Rest are fairly gimmicky or only situationally useful)
l.

Yeah, 15. Nice try. You go ahead and make a reliably competitive set with Charge, Yawn, Haze, Block, or Gravity. If you can find time to use them.

Gothic Togekiss · May 18th, 2009, 11:55:52 PM

Adamiral Korski, what and which moves are considered competitive depends on the current CAP Pokemon. For CAP8 Gravity, Haze, Block, Fire/Thunder Fang, and Charge would be considered non-competitive . Dragon Dance, Volt Tackle, Curse, and probably Yawn are somewhat competitive but not so much.

Edit: beaten to the punch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Aerodactyl Legend

What parts specifically need more fine-tuning?

Was going to say that you need to fix that overload of moves within the level-up but you already fixed that. They're nothing wrong about you submission from a guideline point of view, just the lack of Discharge within you movepool which is more of a personal taste really. You could probably replace it with Thunderbolt within your level-up since it already gets it as a TM.

**Deck Knight** · May 19th, 2009, 12:00:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

Adamiral Korski, what moves are considered competitive depends on the current Pokemon. For CAP8 Gravity, Haze, Block, Fire/Thunder Fang, and Charge wouldn't be considered competitive. Dragon Dance, Volt Tackle, Curse, and probably Yawn are somewhat competitive but not much.

To expand on this, a movepool is not binary. There are generally three classes on moves: Competitive, Marginal/Gimmicky, and Useless. I tend to put on a lot of loves that fall into the Marginal/Gimmicky category. Any pokemon set is going to have a primary attack and a secondary attack, and the rest of the moves are either coverage or marginal/gimmicky moves.

Yawn for example has terrible synergy with Static, although it can work with Shield Dust. Yawn is near useless on a Static utilizing set. The opponent may attack and get paralyzed, meaning you wasted your Yawn Turn, possibly two if you tried to use it again to predict a switch.

Hohahihehu · May 19th, 2009, 12:06:46 AM

Deck Knight, you're getting my vote for sure! Thank you for adding Weather Ball, that clinched it.

Ybbob · May 19th, 2009, 12:14:24 AM

I like DK's apart from the exclusion of Fire Blast and incompatability between Hydro Pump. Honestly, everything apart from the Choice sets will be using some form of non-attacking move, limiting the choice to one coverage move, and I don't why we can't have the option to run both fire+water on a set.

IMO the best in current form are Aero's and Stellars.

**Korski** · May 19th, 2009, 12:21:12 AM

Thanks for the response, DK. I thought the guide was only referencing moves that were considered competitive on their own (like not Thundershock or Leer), not competitive based on that particular pokemon or based on possible movesets (in this case, not including DD/physical attacks), but I can see now how I read it wrong.

May 17th, 2009, 2:54:09 PM	#27
Umbreon Dan Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,184 kiss my ass, this is a holy site.	So I fixed mine up a bit (with help from Cyzir). It now include Earthquake as a TM and Growth and Crunch as Egg moves. Growth is illegal with most others. __________________ 9.9 dan likes to ramble <@Fatecrashers> im really gay <@Fatecrashers> and i might fart rainbows Last edited by Umbreon Dan; May 17th, 2009 at 3:08:30 PM.

May 17th, 2009, 4:34:57 PM	#28
bugmaniacbob Fare thee well. Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,038 Floccinaucinihilipilification	I love this part. Code: TM02 - Dragon Claw TM03 - Water Pulse TM06 - Toxic TM07 - Hail TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day TM14 - Blizzard TM15 - Hyper Beam TM16 - Light Screen TM18 - Rain Dance TM17 - Protect TM21 - Frustration TM22 - SolarBeam TM24 - Thunderbolt TM25 - Thunder TM27 - Return TM32 - Double Team TM33 - Reflect TM34 - Shock Wave TM35 - Flamethrower TM37 - Sandstorm TM38 - Fire Blast TM40 - Aerial Ace TM41 - Torment TM42 - Facade TM43 - Secret Power TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract TM46 - Thief TM49 - Snatch TM50 - Overheat TM55 - Brine TM56 - Fling TM57 - Charge Beam TM58 - Endure TM59 - Dragon Pulse TM61 - Will-o-wisp TM62 - Silver Wind TM63 - Embargo TM65 - Shadow Claw TM66 - Payback TM67 - Recycle TM68 - Giga Impact TM70 - Flash TM72 - Avalanche TM73 - Thunder Wave TM78 - Captivate TM82 - Sleep Talk TM83 - Natural Gift TM87 - Swagger TM88 - Pluck TM90 - Substitute HM04 – Strength Notable omissions: Roar - It learns Whirlwind via level-up, so no difference made. Taunt - Cyclohm has considerable speed; shutting down walls and pseudo-hazers encourages offensive-minded sets, which I do not believe was the assumed role for it to play. Ice Beam - I would greatly dislike this pokemon if it turned out as another BoltBeam option. Anyway, it has Hydro Pump for Ground, Fire Blast for Grass, and its own Dragon and Electric STABs for Dragon and Flying Pokemon, respectively. If you're desperate, you can run Blizzard. Earthquake - Is an egg move (see below). Energy Ball/Grass Knot - It can Draco Meteor against Swampert, who would be the only reason to use these (also cannot see a cloud tripping people over with grass ropes). Stone Edge/Rock Slide - All this coverage is already provided in other options. Not very much power when unboosted. Psychic/Shadow Ball - Both largely expendable; low base power and no important coverage. Surf -Hydro Pump is already available as an egg move. Code: H. Tri Attack H. Thunder Fang H. Weather Ball 5. Dragon Rage 10. Charge 12. Dragonbreath 23. Whirlwind 29. Ancientpower 34. Haze 38. Smokescreen 46. Smog 51. Discharge 55. Mist 62. Hyper Voice 70. Zap Cannon Moves with competitive value: Whirlwind, Thunder Fang, Haze, (possibly) Discharge Code: Glare (Seviper/Arbok) Dragon Dance (Kingdra/Salamence/Altaria/Dragonite/Gyarados/Charizard) Detect (Sceptile) Slam (Sceptile/Dragonite/Arbok) Recover (Milotic) Thrash (Gyarados/Salamence/Garchomp) Yawn (Kingdra) Hydro Pump (Gyarados/Milotic/Kingdra/Salamence) Earthquake (Smeargle -----> Arbok) The ability to use Recover forgoes the ability to run Earthquake or Dragon Dance. Other than this, the other moves of note are Glare, Yawn and Hydro Pump. Code: Signal Beam Outrage Heat Wave Draco Meteor Magnet Rise Twister Vacuum Wave Air Cutter Icy Wind Ominous Wind Signal Beam/Magnet Rise - learned by nearly all Electric-types; Signal Beam gets a far larger hit on Celebi as well as helping with Ludicolo, Magnet Rise cancels its most glaring weakness. Outrage/Draco Meteor - Given to, I think, every Dragon. Heat Wave - Fits both the 'weather' concept and the 'dragon' concept. __________________ Art / C&C / The Smog / Longest Ever Analysis MkI / Longest Ever Analysis MkII / Warstories / Stupid Poem / CAP 4: Aurumoth

May 17th, 2009, 4:40:52 PM	#29
Sc4rfCh0mp Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 182 Classified T_T	I made a few changes to my movepool, since I wanted to put some additional moves in that I missed for flavor. Water Gun and Mist Ball replaced Growth(which replaced Stomp as an egg move) and Whirlwind. Roar and Water Pulse were added to the TMs list. The Punches were taken out of the tutors pool (again flavor, and physical is only a gimmick for Cyclohm most of the time) and replaced with Icy Wind, Snore, Uproar, and Ancientpower. __________________ Has officially left the Community of Smogon due to the immense theorymon that just pissed me off. I'll be on Shoddy still.

May 18th, 2009, 12:17:13 AM	#33
Korski Distilled, 80 proof Moderator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,003 Minneapolis	Alright first edits done and I think it's a lot better. See bottom of post for synopsis of changes. Level-up Moves: Code: H - Weather Ball H - Morning Sun 1 - Tackle 1 - Growl 7 - Thundershock 10 - Leer 13 - Thunder Wave 15 - Twister 19 - Glare 21 - Discharge 24 - Dragon Claw 30 - Thunderbolt 38 - Power Trick 46 - Dragon Dance 56 - Dragon Pulse 68 - Volt Tackle Competitive non-TM moves: Morning Sun, Discharge TMs/HMs: Code: TM02 - Dragon Claw TM03 - Water Pulse TM05 - Roar TM06 - Toxic TM07 - Hail TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day TM12 - Taunt TM15 - Hyper Beam TM16 - Light Screen TM17 - Protect TM18 - Rain Dance TM20 - Safeguard TM21 - Frustration TM23 - Iron Tail TM24 - Thunderbolt TM25 - Thunder TM26 - Earthquake TM27 - Return TM29 - Psychic TM30 - Shadow Ball TM32 - Double Team TM33 - Reflect TM34 - Shock Wave TM35 - Flamethrower TM37 - Sandstorm TM40 - Aerial Ace TM42 - Facade TM43 - Secret Power TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract TM46 - Thief TM54 - False Swipe TM56 - Fling TM57 - Charge Beam TM58 - Endure TM59 - Dragon Pulse TM62 - Silver Wind TM65 - Shadow Claw TM66 - Payback TM68 - Giga Impact TM70 - Flash TM73 - Thunder Wave TM76 - Stealth Rock TM78 - Captivate TM82 - Sleep Talk TM83 - Natural Gift TM87 - Swagger TM90 - Substitute HM01 - Cut HM03 - Surf HM04 - Strength HM05 - Defog HM06 - Rock Smash Egg Moves (Dragon/Monster): Code: Heat Wave - Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard, Dragonite, Swablu, Altaria, Salamence Recover - Milotic Mirror Coat - Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Milotic Aromatherapy - Chikorita, Bayleef, Meganium Charge - Mareep, Flaffy, Ampharos Aqua Tail - Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Slowpoke, Slowbro, Lickitung, Rhyhorn, Rhydon, Kangaskhan, Gyarados, Lapras, Dratini, Dragonair, Dragonite, Totodile, Crocinaw, Feraligatr, Slowking, Tyranitar, Mudkip, Marshtomp, Swampert, Aggron, Seviper, Milotic, Salamence, Garchomp, Lickilicky, Rhyperior Yawn - Slowpoke, Slowbro, Snorlax, Slowking, Kingdra, Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise Tickle - Lapras, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra Focus Energy - Nidoran (m), Nidorino, Nidoking, Nidoran (f), Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Cubone, Marowak, Horsea, Seadra, Kingdra, Bagon, Shelgon, Larvitar, Pupitar, Tyranitar, Shieldon, Bastiodon, Salamence, Cranidos, Rampardos Double-Edge - Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, Venusaur, Cubone, Marowak, Aron, Lairon, Aggron, Bagon, Shelgon, Salamence, Snorlax, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra, Cranidos, Rampardos, Shieldon, Bastiodon, Gible, Gabite, Garchomp, Snover, Abomasnow Competitive Moves: Recover, Aromatherapy, Mirror Coat, Heat Wave Legal Egg Combos (forgetting Focus Energy and Double-Edge, which are in all cases rather useless): Heat Wave + Aqua Tail (Dragonite, Salamence) Recover + Mirror Coat + Aqua Tail (Milotic) Mirror Coat + Aqua Tail (Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Milotic) Charge and Aromatherapy are both completely exclusive Move Tutor: Code: Counter Metronome Mimic Icy Wind Seismic Toss Knock Off Ominous Wind Vacuum Wave Swift Magnet Rise AncientPower Outrage Signal Beam Draco Meteor Synopsis: Physical attacks (for DD sets): Outrage, Shadow Claw, Facade, Return, Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Aqua Tail. Special attacks of potential worth: Discharge, Thunderbolt, Dragon Pulse, Thunder, Hidden Power, Shadow Ball, Psychic, Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Charge Beam, Surf, Vacuum Wave, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Draco Meteor. Non-attacking moves of potential worth: Morning Sun, Thunder Wave, Glare, Roar, Toxic, Hail, Dragon Dance, Sunny Day, Taunt, Light Screen, Protect, Rain Dance, Reflect, Rest, Stealth Rock, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Recover, Aromatherapy, Mirror Coat, Charge, Counter, Knock Off, Magnet Rise, Yawn And some notes: Sunny Day + Rain Dance + Hail + Sandstorm + Morning Sun + Weatherball for flavor. Morning Sun is the only form of recovery that is legal with Heat Wave, Yawn, Aromatherapy, Tickle, or Charge. All other moves are legal with Morning Sun and Recover. Flamethrower, Heat Wave, and Surf are the only competitive Water or Fire attacks. They offer the necessary coverage without being overpowered. Since Cyclohm should be leaning defensive anyways, I don't think the sweeper-esque high-powered attacks are necessary. No other pokemon in OU can run Counter + Mirror Coat. Also, it'll be the only pokemon outside of Deoxys-D to run both + Recover, giving it a little more surprise and niche value. No Volt Tackle. I could only put it in level-up, but the competitive moves there both outclass it, imo, and it would be a novelty otherwise. No Zap Cannon. 50% accuracy means no one will use it. Signal Beam > Bug Buzz because Bug Buzz could only be level-up and would take out one of my other competitive moves, and Signal Beam is tutorable. EDIT: I caved and added Volt Tackle (gimmicky) and Power Trick (gimmicky) to level-up moves, Heat Wave (competitive), Aqua Tail (gimmicky), Aromatherapy (competitive-ish), and Yawn (not competitive) to Egg moves, and Psychic (not competitive) to the TM list. I traded in Slack Off for Recover in terms of insta-recovery so that it would remain illegal with Heat Wave and Charge but become compatible with Mirror Coat. Now this moveset is very diverse, catering to offensive, defensive, mixed, support, and gimmick sets. Also, it can now run Counter + Mirror Coat + Recover, which would make it the only pokemon in OU to run Counter and Mirror Coat, and the only pokemon outside of Ubers to run both plus recovery. Let me know if that's too overpowered. There you have it. Let me know how I can make it better, pleez. __________________ "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon Last edited by Korski; May 20th, 2009 at 2:34:15 PM.

May 18th, 2009, 5:03:28 PM	#38
Elevator Music there is actually no underscore in my name Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,445	DK/tennis's is perfect and is pretty much what I invisioned heheh Spiffy used Slack Off __________________

May 17th, 2009, 1:37:42 PM	#26
Roserade Raider Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 268 Potomac, Maryland	i agree with gothic togekiss, and i also really like deck knight's

May 17th, 2009, 5:26:46 PM	#31
Petope Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 115	There are alot of good sets that I like but all of them is missing the move I want to se the most. Power Trick, please someone add this move because I think it could be usefull.

May 18th, 2009, 4:25:41 PM	#37
bumfacepik Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 107 NOMNOM	Ahh thanks, I forgot to bold that. I changed a few other things around too. Edit:I forgot movetutor moves. Ill have those up in a moment.

May 18th, 2009, 5:28:31 PM	#39
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,834 Massachusetts	When did special Ice Moves become non-competitive? Ice Beam still outdamages STAB Dragon Pulse on Salamence and Flygon and hits Zapdos for SE damage. We never approved of Ice Moves in the Attacking Moves Discussion. Also Added Weather Ball as a Heart Scale move. Its best use is probably solely vs. Zapdos in a Sandstorm. Otherwise I'm hard-pressed to think of instances where it is superior to Thunderbolt, considering the most common OU Fire types are Infernape and Heatran, and Weavile fails to function in Sandstorm and additionally hates paralysis. __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\|

May 18th, 2009, 10:19:19 PM	#42
Sc4rfCh0mp Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 182 Classified T_T	Apart from my own, DK's is looking pretty nice. I have a quick comment to make on bumfacepik's movepool- since Fake Out was never approved in the Attacking(or Support?) Moves Discussion, it can't be used, which is also why nobody is using Ice Beam/Blizzard. __________________ Has officially left the Community of Smogon due to the immense theorymon that just pissed me off. I'll be on Shoddy still.

May 18th, 2009, 10:39:43 PM	#43
Gir! Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 430 Mexico	Deck Knight, as always, posted a marvelous Movepool, access to a good recovery move, option to use a gimmick DD set, egg moves with really good compatibility and the not always needed, but certainly good to see flavor moves __________________ Platinum FC- 0860-9398-5874. In Battles, I may use Legal Hacks, I´ll try to avoid it though My services(approved by TheForgottenSould) Offering HG/SS tutoring

May 19th, 2009, 12:06:46 AM	#48
Hohahihehu Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 103	Deck Knight, you're getting my vote for sure! Thank you for adding Weather Ball, that clinched it.

May 19th, 2009, 12:14:24 AM	#49
Ybbob Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 59	I like DK's apart from the exclusion of Fire Blast and incompatability between Hydro Pump. Honestly, everything apart from the Choice sets will be using some form of non-attacking move, limiting the choice to one coverage move, and I don't why we can't have the option to run both fire+water on a set. IMO the best in current form are Aero's and Stellars.

May 19th, 2009, 12:21:12 AM	#50
Korski Distilled, 80 proof Moderator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,003 Minneapolis	Thanks for the response, DK. I thought the guide was only referencing moves that were considered competitive on their own (like not Thundershock or Leer), not competitive based on that particular pokemon or based on possible movesets (in this case, not including DD/physical attacks), but I can see now how I read it wrong. __________________ "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon