Thriller - Joint RMT by Pana and JLei2k

RIP M.J.


So now that Canada has been eliminated from the World Cup (what a shame), my buddy JLei2k is retiring, so we’re gonna post one of our (if not the) most successful teams, getting both of us in the top 3. This is largely a defensive team and it is centred around spikes support and suicune. Introductions can be boring so I’m just going to get on with the team...

At a Glance:



Ok, let’s get in depth shall we?

Forretress @ Leftovers ---Wally---
Careful Nature, 252 HP / 252 Special Defense / 4 Attack

• Spikes
• Toxic Spikes
• Rapid Spin
• Payback

Forretress is our designated lead and it has become quite useful in the lead position, as it excels against slower and bulky leads, which became more and more common with the rise of metagross. Forretress was chosen over skarmory due to its ability to rapid spin and set up toxic spikes, which through playtesting we found to be very useful (and this team already has two phazers so skarmory doesn’t bring too much to the table). Forretress was given a bias to special defense EVs as it allows foretress to set up spikes against a larger variety of pokemon. Payback is our move of choice for its ability to 3HKO defensive-rotoms (2HKO on offensive ones) and 2HKO latias. Spiking is usually a top priority, toxic spikes should only be given priority to set up if it is apparent that the opponent has a celebi, vaporeon or a blissey, so that suicune can handle those threats much easier.

Here is how foretress fares against the top 10 leads as of june:


Metagross: Forretress easily wins this one, as metagross can’t hurt forretress, and foretress completely shuts metagross down by spiking as it meteor mashes or rapid spinning after it has Stealth Rocked.

Azelf: If it has fire blast forretress loses, but if it is the taunting version (which should be apparent if it taunts the switch in) forretress does well against it.


Jirachi: Free spikes. If it tricks its scarf on to forretress that is all the better for us as it cannot cripple one of our other pokemon. If it utilises Fire Punch (which doesn’t come that close to OHKOing) Swampert can switch in for a free Stealth Rock. Either way, we are nearly guaranteed two layers of hazards against this lead.

Swampert: Free spikes. Foretress can easily get three layers of spikes against swampert (more if it SRs) so forretress definitely comes out on top in this matchup.

Aerodactyl: 90% of the time, they will taunt, so switching to jirachi and then (hopefully) flinching them renders aerodactyl useless.
Infernape: Forretress loses this one. Switch to swampert and get some Stealth Rocks up.

Hippowdon: Two Layers of spikes means forretress is in a good situation.
Bronzong: Free Spikes. Keep setting up on it until it switches out.
Ninjask: Man how is this thing even top 10, I hardly ever see it! Anyhow, just switch to swampert and roar it away.

Tyranitar: This one can be a bit iffy. Either spike or switch to swampert.


So as you can see, forretress fairly pretty nicely against the top 10 leads.

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Latias @ Leftovers ---Jumpluff---
Timid Nature, 108 HP / 148 Special Attack / 252 Speed

• Dragon Pulse
• Calm Mind
• Recover
• Roar

Pretty much your standard Calm Mind + Refresh Latias here with a twist; roar. Roar is such a good and under-appreciated move on latias and it works nicely with forretress’s entry hazard support. It is very beneficial in the way that it scouts latias’s counters, who won’t be countering her anymore if we got hazards up. Roar is also useful as it turns latias into our <insert bulky calm minder> counter (and if you feel ballsy enough you can roar away gyarados and lucario who try to set up), and if they are foolish enough to set up against latias, it could very well be good game right then and there. The surprise factor of roar on latias cannot be overemphasised and we have never regretted the decision to utilise it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Rotom-C @ Leftovers ---Scrotom---
Bold Nature, 252 HP / 176 Defense / 80 Special Defense (Jlei2k uses 252 HP / 156 Defense / 100 Special Defense)


Discharge
Will-o-wisp
Rest
Sleep Talk


When running a team that utilises spikes support, a spinblocker is (nearly) always needed, hence the addition of Rotom. Rotom serves as our status absorber, spin blocker and gyarados counter among other things. As we rely on rotom to take on gyarados, will-o-wisp was given the nod over shadow ball so rotom was not able to be pursuited to death as easily. Will-o-wisp is also beneficial in that even when rotom is sleeping, the majority of time we can still cripple or kill gyarados. Discharge was chosen over thunderbolt as the added chance to paralyse it always nice and the power drop isn’t too noticeable. With the statusing abilities from this chosen moveset, setting up on rotom is not the easiest task, which is very helpful. Rotom-C was chosen over the other rotom forms because, let’s be honest, it’s so much cooler.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Swampert @ Leftovers ---Stallion---
Relaxed Nature, 252 HP / 240 Defense / 16 Special Attack

• Stealth Rock
• Ice Beam
• Earthquake
• Roar

This is your standard mixpert. We needed a counter for physical Salamence and Tyranitar and a Stealth Rocker, so a bulky ground was the obvious choice. Swampert was given the nod over Gliscor and Hippowdon because it can Utilise Ice Beam and has that beautiful fire resist and it can take electric types much better too (ones that that lack Hp Grass anyway). Simplistically, swampert is really just a great defensive pokemon that can switch into a multitude of threats. Swampert has the added bonus of having tremendous synergy with Forretress so it is really easy to get Stealth Rock and Spikes up one after the other. You should know how it works by now, Earthquake is the main move to use, and Ice Beam hits everything that Earthquake can’t. Roar is useful in stopping pokemon setting up.

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Suicune @ Leftovers ---Wet Dream---
Bold Nature, 252 HP / 240 Defense / 16 Speed

• Calm Mind
• Surf
• Rest
• Sleep Talk

Crocune, the star of the show. Suicune works great with entry hazards and once it gets one or two calm minds, it is going to be very hard to stop. With the large majority of its counters getting destroyed by hazards, a suicune sweep is likely if we play our cards right (funnily enough we utilise one of the best counters for crocune). Sixteen Speed EVs allows us to outspeed the defensive versions of rotoms, so we have a much easier time setting up against them and the rest is thrown into HP and Defenses, as we will be boosting our Special Defense anyhow. Suicune often sweeps unprepared teams, as it is not utilised as much as it should be, it is really a great pokemon. Suicune is not getting stopped by latias any time soon either (unless you run the set we do or manage to trick it) as dragon pulse is a 4HKO when we are on even boosts and it only has 8 chances to critical hit us due to pressure.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf ---luckismyskill---
Adamant Nature, 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP

• Iron Head
• Fire Punch
• Ice Punch
• Trick

Jirachi is our revenger and a great one at that. Fire punch was chosen as lucario is a pain in the regions behind the genitals so hitting it super effectively is essential. Iron Head is for STAB and flinching purposes, Ice Punch is mainly for Salamence, because the dragons are such threats in the metagame and Trick rounds it off to screw over walls (or stuff like Gyarados after a DD if rotom has died). Jirachi was mainly chosen as the revenge killer as choice due to three reasons. 1) It can beat salamence, 2) It can utilise Trick and 3) because iron heads flinching potential is way too good to pass up. An Adamant nature was chosen over jolly because, Even with jolly, we have no way of knowing DD Salamences EV Spread and Nature so we could lose to it anyway, plus adamant outspeeds pretty much everything we want it to anyway and the power increase is appreciated.

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panamaxis: what should the conclusion say
JTest: its been real...peace!
JTest: since im retiring
JTest: haha
JTest: :P



It's been awesome JLei2k, I wish you all the best. So yeah, thats the team, don't be late to rate this great team I built with my mate and please don't hate.

(yeah I know I suck at rapping ok? >.<)

And now for team building...

Ok, animenagai gets a mention as he helped with the first version of the team.

Team Building Process

First of all I was getting tired of making the same team over and over again with bulky offense and balance. So I started watching others looking for ideas. One particular player (LoveDestiny) was abusing Spikes with a balanced sort of team and it gave me a eureka moment of how underrated they were in the metagame. His team had many glaring weaknesses on paper but because his concept worked so well he made it to the top 5 on the leaderboard. I decided that I would attempt to take that strategy and put my own little spin on it and basically here’s the team building process that I went through analyzing the metagame.

First of all I started with.
Rotom

Every spikes team needs a spin blocker and Rotom is the best one. Now I thought of what were the best rapid spinners and they were Forretress and Starmie. Starmie isn’t a very big problem for Rotom but those new Payback Forreys were a problem for the standard Rest Talk Rotom. So I decided to put Will-O-Wisp over Shadow Ball and it worked like a charm. It also helped it to not be Pursuit bait as Scizors, Metagross and Tyranitars hate being burned and Rotom staying alive is important to keep the spikes there.

Next I added
Swampert

Standard Mixpert is the best SR user in the game IMO. Its so bulky and has plenty of opportunities to come in and get the SR up and that it can learn Roar and still have 2 moves for perfect coverage is great.

Next I added
Heatran

A Substitute Roar Heatran taken straight from LoveDestiny’s team. It was a gimmick but it worked quite well as Sub Tran is a very effective poke in the metagame and especially on a Spikes team because it already forces so many switches with it’s great resistances and it can either kill the switch in from behind the sub (they switch in an opposing Heatran) or you can Roar their switch in away (bulky water) and rack up a lot of Spikes damage. A perk was Heatran ended up killing Wish Bliss very often because it could never heal itself due to you Roaring it away before Bliss could protect while the rest of Stall falls pretty hard to Heatran (before Gyara got popular).

Next I added
Celebi

The standard defensive Celebi with Perish Song over Thunder Wave keeping the theme of Pokémon that force switches especially with the synergy with Heatran. Originally Perish Song was meant to cause more switches but later on we found it to be a crutch to counter certain Pokémon.

Next I added
Forretress

A recent trend that I was noticing in Stall was the advent of the Payback Special Defensive Forrey mainly seen used by IPL. Seeing how the first 4 pokes I picked were pretty defensive I knew Forrey would fit right in. I initially had Swampert as the lead but I noticed how LoveDestiny kept the pressure right from the beginning with his lead (Smeargle) attempting to get Spikes on the field immediately due to Swampert having ample opportunities to get SR up later. Then I thought would Forrey be a good lead in this metagame? Just so happens that the whole Metagross lead frenzy created by Pana was hitting the Smogon metagame and it countered the Metagross lead and the bulky leads that became more popular to counter the Metagross lead such as Swampert, Hippo, and Bronzong very well and was able to get up 1 layer while Rapid Spinning their SR away. A bonus is just how perfectly Swampert and Forrey worked together which I didn't even realize until play testing. Swampert gets up SR against leads that Forrey has to switch out of like Infernape and Heatran because of his Fire resist.

Finally I added
Salamence

A choice scarf Salamence to be exact normally Scarf Salamence kind of sucks due to its lack of power and the frequency you have to switch it out but because the Rapid Spinner we chose is very good at keeping SR off the field Salamence became the perfect clean up and fix for many of the weaknesses such as Latias, Infernape, DD Mence and Lucario the first 2 tend to stay in since they are normally faster.

So the team was:



I presented this team to Pana as well as laddering with it and got pretty high on the leaderboard (mid 20’s) while Pana was still number 1 or 2 at that point and he really liked the team but we noticed that there were a few exploitable weaknesses so he decided to experiment with the team.

He changed Heatran to a
Suicune

He was toying around with pokemon with the pressure ability such as Zapdos and Suicune and he suggested trying out Suicune over Heatran and it just clicked. Suicune quickly became a key Pokémon in the defensive core and brought a potential sweep to the table which was much appreciated.

And he changed Salamence to a
Latias


With the addition of Suicune, the team lost the surprise factor of roar on Heatran. Pana then suggested trying out a Latias that utilized roar as it largely filled the same role that Heatran had. It also provided us with an exemplary Infernape counter and its high speed helped us break offense and stall alike easier (due to high speed + phasing abilities).

The last poke we added was changing Celebi to a
Jirachi

As I mentioned earlier Celebi was becoming a crutch and not really doing all that much and with Heatran replaced didn't have as much Synergy on our team. As well we needed a new cleanup hitter with Salamence replaced and another Steel because Heatran was replaced and we found Jirachi who is better at this role than Salamence since it is naturally a good Choice Scarfer and it countered Lucario and Latias better because of the ES resist and being able to switch into Latias.

The Final Team:



After I saw Pana's success with the new version I had to try it myself and I got to 3rd on the leaderboard after a good run with a 1660 CRE and a 1840-1965 rating then I retired.

It's been real ya'll. I may post another RMT with another one of my successful teams.

Crappy Threat List

Aerodactyl- It taunts Jirachi, Jirachi Iron Heads though Forrey beats it anyways.
Alakazam- Forrey, Jirachi
Azelf- As a lead switch to Latias then Rotom on the boom otherwise get Jirachi in on Psychic
Blissey- Spikes, TSpikes, Jirachi, Cune
Breloom- Rotom, Latias
Bronzong- Forrey, Pert, Rotom
Celebi- Latias, Jirachi
Cresselia- Latias, Cune
Dragonite- Jirachi, Latias, Swampert, Rotom
Dusknoir- Cune, Jirachi
Electivire- Swampert, Rotom, Latias does fine as well, TSpikes
Empoleon- Latias, Cune
Flygon- Rotom, Swampert, Cune
Forretress- Rotom, Jirachi
Gengar- Forrey, Jirachi
Gliscor- Swampert, Cune, Latias, Rotom
Gyarados- Rotom, Latias works in a pinch, or Trick with Jirachi and kill with Cune
Heatran- Swampert, Cune, Latias
Heracross- Rotom, Cune and Pert does fine to, Jirachi and Latias are faster
Hippowdon- Forrey, Pert, Cune, Latias
Infernape- Pert, Cune, Latias, Rotom
Jirachi- Forrey doesn't mind Trick from leads, Rotom, Swampert
Jolteon- Swampert, Latias, TSpikes
Kingdra- Rotom, or Latias baiting Outrage or if it comes in on Pert just attack/ Roar, TSpikes
Latias- Forrey, Jirachi
Lucario- Pert, Rotom, Jirachi
Machamp- Rotom, Cune, Jirachi
Magnezone- Gay sometimes...Pert, Latias
Mamoswine- Rotom, Cune, Latias
Metagross- Rotom, Forrey, Swampert, Jirachi
Ninjask- Swampert, Jirachi, Latias
Porygon-Z- Jirachi, Forrey, TSpikes
Rhyperior- Suicune, Swampert, Rotom, TSpikes
Rotom- Forrey, Latias
Salamence- Swampert, Jirachi, Latias
Scizor- Lol everything Except Latias (though Latias can roar the switch in making Scizor eat Spikes)
Skarmory- Forrey, Rotom
Smeargle- Rotom on the Spore, Jirachi or Forrey depending on what it does
Snorlax- Phaze it kill it on the switch in since its slow. Jirachi works well
Starmie- Rotom, Latias
Suicune- Latias, Rotom, Trick it
Swampert- Forrey, Latias, Suicune, Rotom, Trick Cursepert
Tentacruel- Latias, Rotom
Togekiss- Rotom, Latias
Tyranitar- Swampert, Jirachi, Cune, Rotom can burn
Umbreon- depends on set. TSpikes or phazer
Vaporeon- Latias, Rotom
Weavile- Jirachi, Forrey, Cune
Zapdos- Swampert, Latias, Rotom

*Cough cough* missing someone? I did help you with the first version of the team J I want credit too!

Either way, this is one of my favourite teams. Not much to say really, it's amazing. 5 pretend stars!

I remember facing this team the other day. One problem Pokemon I notice is Stallbreaker Gliscor. It can use Taunt to shut down most of your Gliscor switch-ins options, then use U-turn to safely get in their counter.

This is even more of a problem when all your spiking needs are left to Forretress, so a combination of Gliscor and Rotom-A can break the team somewhat.

I suggest changing Rotom-C to Rotom-W and give it Hydro Pump over Will-o-Wisp. If you don't like that, try ditching ResTalk and running Discharge / Hydro Pump / Will-o-Wisp / filler.

Nice team though. Why is it called Thriller when there aren't any MJ references?

Just a small nitpick. Your Suicune has 256 speed EV's. (240 in speed, and 16 in speed also) But anyways, looks like a great team. I especially like the idea of Roar on Latias. If it wasn't there, Tryanitar could switch in any time and annhilate your Latias. I also like the Forrestress lead. Overall, a very nice and original team!

Really nice team. The only thing I think you should change would be leftovers on Forrey. Shed Shell is much better since any team with Zone can get rid of him right away. I think Jolly is better on Jirachi unless of course the extra power is needed to beat some threats. Wouldn't Pert fit better in the lead spot? You already have good counters to the leads he looses to. I don't have much experience with Forrey but I think it would be easier to get up hazards mid-game especially with payback on the set. Can't see any other problems, really good team.

Good luck to you both.

@KnightoftheWind. To be honest me and JLei2k spent about 20 minutes or so trying to think of a title name, so we ended up random battling to decide who would choose the title. He won so he just decided we should put a michael jackson song up there.

@mc2094. Getting spikes up early is quite beneficial as they are already put under pressure from the get go. It should also be noted that swampert is a lot easier to switch in then forretress.

Thanks to the people who caught that mishap with suicunes EVs, I changed them back to defense.

If I recall correctly, jolly lucario lacks the power to OHKO suicune swampert and latias (with ES in this case) so I don't think its much of a problem. Adamant lucario, on the other hand, is, so I've found that the extra power of fire punch vs it to be very nice. Not sure about JLei2k, but I haven't had too many problems with salamences, swampert can take it, latias forces it into an outrage. If i do use this team again and salamence begins to become a problem, I'll definitely switch to jolly.

Forretress's leftovers recovery often makes a huge difference so I would not be inclined to change that (it actually lives a timid magnezones hp fire at full health which is nice).

Gliscor..doesnt seem to troublesome really, suicune, swampert jirachi (as the large majority only run enough speed to outpace lucario or less (i think), so it can 2HKO with ice punch before gliscor gets the chance to 2HKO back), even latias fares okay (not so much against the SDer but the taunt version).

Lovely team, I think I told jlei2k that when we played or at least I meant to. I really anticipated explosion on forry as that would add another dimension to your gyara coverage as 5/6 are letting it set up pretty easy and rotom is 2hkoed by DD wf I think. I've lived a few discharges with gyara and I'm not sure if this is because my opponent did something weird with IVs but that'd be rather dangerous for you too so maybe try t-bolt if you ever run into the issue. Granted with the forry>>pert set up you probably get SR out fast and that prevents gyara from doing too much already.

You guys probably want to give suicune some more speed to outrun max speed adamant cbtar I believe you want to reach 222 (stat).

Now that I see the team it seems a lot less threatening than when I played it. I guess it appeared that way because each of the pokemon you've chosen has so many options and I imagine that allows you to bluff all sorts of things. Very nice.

husk said:

Lovely team, I think I told jlei2k that when we played or at least I meant to. I really anticipated explosion on forry as that would add another dimension to your gyara coverage as 5/6 are letting it set up pretty easy and rotom is 2hkoed by DD wf I think. I've lived a few discharges with gyara and I'm not sure if this is because my opponent did something weird with IVs but that'd be rather dangerous for you too so maybe try t-bolt if you ever run into the issue. Granted with the forry>>pert set up you probably get SR out fast and that prevents gyara from doing too much already.

You guys probably want to give suicune some more speed to outrun max speed adamant cbtar I believe you want to reach 222 (stat).

Now that I see the team it seems a lot less threatening than when I played it. I guess it appeared that way because each of the pokemon you've chosen has so many options and I imagine that allows you to bluff all sorts of things. Very nice.

Click to expand...

The last sentence is one of keys to the team and you hit the nail on the head. Thanks.

Man this team needs a lot more love :/

Heh I feel special that:

a) I gave rotom his nickname

and

b) I am the Swampert :)

Also this team is frustrating because I can't use it brilliantly but it's a pain in the ass to beat lol. But really, wonderful team. The only thing I suggest is taking Roar off Latias for Reflect and put it on Suicune over sleep talk possibly. Yeah you still have a slight taunt Gyara weak but it helps againt offensive versions. Also putting Tpunch > Trick will mean you pretty much check taunt versions no matter what. Anyway these are just nitpicks, great team and bye Jlei2k, I'll miss you, you were a great battler, fun to build teams with and above all one of my best friends on shoddy, or online at all for that matter. Send me your msn through PM or something :)

Magnezone and salamence combo will give you troubles so i think for magnezone, you can change rotom-c to a rotom-h, i think the standard set for bulkyness. You dont need two sleep talkers. hope this helps

Oh dang, LoveDestiny getting that mad credit for a balanced spikes team. Though no smeargle lead probably makes him sad.

Anyways good team, I have a very similar team to this I messed around with except I had scizor over pert and my latias is CM LO. I really love the idea of roar latias to make its counters like scizor,and ttar take entry hazard damage and than instantly gone, very nice idea that I might have to steal xD. I don't see any major glaring weakneses, maybe a slight DDgyra problem if rotom gets flinched or crited, but I guess pert can roar it as well.

I played with this team a bit and you have a challenging time with rotom especially the heat version but in general any leftovers rotom with wisp gives you issues. Generally you have accept that latias or swampert will get burned and severely weakened.

Taunt gyara is actually a serious issues as a resting rotom means it runs right through your team. The only thing prevent a clean sweep is roar on pert and latias and a hopefully early SR though pert/latias will have to take some serious damage just to force gyara out.

SD lucario is also annoying as you only real hope to beating it is revenge killing with jirachi. Though few people ever switch their lucario out after it gets an SD which is really silly but it helps.

This team is EVERYWHERE lol, I swear I've battled it 20 times since you posted this RMT.

As husk said above, Adamant Lucario is really the issue for this team. Everything on your team is swept clean by it, except for Jirachi. The issue is that Jirachi still takes around 32% minimum from a +2 Extreme Speed, and late game after Jirachi has needed to switch into various Dragon attacks (like Draco Meteor), it might be too weak to stand up to a Extreme Speed. Not to mention Jirach only does 84% max, so if Lucario chooses to stay in and CC you, it can still kill 1 or 2 other pokemon.

Not sure really how to deal with it without changing your team drastically. Increasing the speed of stuff like Rotom/Suicune would help, but that would probably bring more problems than solve.

You probably don't need to hear it, but great team. I'm also liking the idea of roar on Latias, and might mess around with it on a team in the future. Thanks for the idea!

If a NP Azelf carries Shadow Ball, you're in a spot of trouble. LO Shadow Ball OHKO's Latias with rocks up, Flamethrower kills Forry and Jirachi (who could stop it only with flinchax) and Psychic has a 87.18% chance to OHKO suicune with rocks. That's not saying it'd be too easy to get a NP off, but merely pointing out that he has the possibility of destroying the team.

NP Azelf doesn't seem like a huge threat, mainly because I've never seen Azelf actually use Shadow Ball, since it already has 4 moveslot syndrome with NP / Psychic / Flamethrower / ???. I guess someone might try to use Shadow Ball / HP Fighting to give Azelf unresisted coverage, but either way, Jirachi can outspeed and finish it off after entry damage or, if worst comes to worst, trick it into using one move and bring in a resist.

Normal NP Azlef with NP / Psychic / Flamethrower / Grass Knot seems like set up bait for Latias.

xWOLFYx said:

NP Azelf doesn't seem like a huge threat, mainly because I've never seen Azelf actually use Shadow Ball, since it already has 4 moveslot syndrome with NP / Psychic / Flamethrower / ???. I guess someone might try to use Shadow Ball / HP Fighting to give Azelf unresisted coverage, but either way, Jirachi can outspeed and finish it off after entry damage or, if worst comes to worst, trick it into using one move and bring in a resist.

Normal NP Azlef with NP / Psychic / Flamethrower / Grass Knot seems like set up bait for Latias.

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Levitate prevents spikes, Jirachi fails to OHKO him. Either way, I never saw a reason to run Grass Knot as at +2, Psychic finishes off nearly all bulky waters anyway. I only ran NP Azelf once on a random team I threw together in 5 minutes because I was using shoddy on a different computer, and I ran Shadow Ball, so it's not unheard of.

romeojustdie said:

Oh dang, LoveDestiny getting that mad credit for a balanced spikes team. Though no smeargle lead probably makes him sad..

Click to expand...

All good because I love this RMT because:
-Great team and strategy. No glaring weaknesses, although Salamence/Lucario (already mentioned) are a pain. I've seen this team in battle and think I faced it once or twice.
-Love the team style as it is my personal favorite.
-MJ ftw. I am watching the Jackson 5 movie as I speak
-I love hearing my name.
-Show people in the past that Forrey isn't a trashy lead

Unfortunately I got bad comments:
-Sucks to see you leave, Jlei. I'll remember the nice late night(for me late night) talks about things.
-Yuck, this team is so good... people are now taking it. Well.. serves as a good role model at least

End comments... I hope I play it in ladder and improve my new team.

d2m said:

If a NP Azelf carries Shadow Ball, you're in a spot of trouble. LO Shadow Ball OHKO's Latias with rocks up, Flamethrower kills Forry and Jirachi (who could stop it only with flinchax) and Psychic has a 87.18% chance to OHKO suicune with rocks. That's not saying it'd be too easy to get a NP off, but merely pointing out that he has the possibility of destroying the team.

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Considering the frailty of Azelf and the fact that it's one of the rarest sweepers in OU, the chances of this happening are very slim, so I'd say its a nonissue, but you never know. So.. you're right. haha

What is really bothering me about this team is the 2 Restalkers. I dont know about a crocune set on Suicune I would much rather go for the Calmmind shuffle

Nape

Heya pana!,this may sound wierd but SD Infernape can be a problem, since Latias can´t OHKO and Suicune might be weakened or Sleep Talking a Rest, I don´t know how to fix this, but is something to think of. Probably playing resistances until LO, Close Combat or Flare Blitz puts him in Jumpluff´s KO range or hoping for flinches, good luck!!