RNG Research

[mattj]

Thank you for doing that! I couldn't possibly check the starters on my cart. So, so far we've found:

Originally Posted by Fat Pokes that have their IVs predicted by the IV MTRNG:

• Starters
• Wild Random Encounters
• Sweet Scented Mons
• Overworld Mons (Morobareru and most likely Hihidarumas)
• Fossil Mons
• Stationary Legends (Cobalon and most likely the other 2 Beasts)

Originally Posted by Fat Pokes that have "shifted" IVs from what is predicted by the IV MTRNG:

• The Roamer (Tornelos, most likely Voltolos)
• Gift Meraruba Egg

I guess the only mons left to check are...
Zekrom/Reshiram, Kyumeru, Victini, Musharna, Zoroark, Ulgamoth, The Gifted Monkey Trio, Zorua, That Magikarp you can buy (lol).
But I don't really see a reason why most of them wouldn't have their IVs predicted by the IV MTRNG, because most "fit the categories" we've already looked at. I am curious about other "Gift" mons though.

[mattj]

heee heee ^^^

Well, I found a decently good IV set while arbitrarily SRing the other day for a completely different purpose. It only appeared twice out of 15 times while Resetting on a certain second, so I figured it was related to some kind of human error and I was accidentally Resetting on some other near by second. So I decided to go back to that second, and do some Resets, adjusting my timer by 1/2 a second up and then later down until I started hitting it consistently. I keep getting really spotty results. Are we 100% sure that the Date/Time to the second is close enough? Could it be like 1/2 a second, or an 1/8th of a second or something?

Just throwing it out there because the only proof I've seen so far is that Japanese blog.

...

---

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First 5th Gen RNG Project: Purotooga (564)
Brave
Either Gender
Either Ability
31 / 26 / 19 / 5 / 27 / 0

Target IVRNG: 22440 49583

I randomly came across the above IVs while doing some SRing for a different project
the other day. I'm pretty sure they were on an adjacent second to the one I was Resetting
on, but I'm not sure if it was above, or below, or how far. The plan is to Synch on the same
DS Date/Time, but to play with emloop till I can hone in on them and hit them at will. Then
I'll use the one RMNPC to cycle through PIDs till I find any Brave one.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:30:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 26446 49622
IVs: 31 / 25 / 5 / 28 / 9 / 19
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs: 3 / 15 / 1 / 7 / 11 / 17
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 26446 49622
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 26446 49622
IVs:
Time / PID:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:31:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs: 12 / 31 / 22 / 19 / 8 / 6
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 56175 02925
IVs: 3 / 17 / 18 / 1 / 28 / 23
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 18908 46324
IVs: 15 / 29 / 20 / 11 / 19 / 24
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:31:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 18908 46324
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 56175 02925
IVs:
Time / PID:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:32:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs: 25 / 21 / 8 / 15 / 6 / 19
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs: 29 / 6 / 27 / 24 / 18 / 8
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs:
Time / PID:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:30:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (long)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) (long)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) (long)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) (short)
IVRNG: 22440 49583
IVs: 31 / 26 / 19 / 5 / 27 / 0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
Time / PID:

Reset #5) (short)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:29:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (short)
IVRNG: 34723 62374
IVs: 0 / 15 / 19 / 25 / 27 / 13
Time / PID:

Reset #2) (long)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs: 12 / 16 / 18 / 3 / 29 / 19
Time / PID:

Reset #3) (long)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) (short)
IVRNG: 34723 62374
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) (long)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:29:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (short)
IVRNG: 34723 62374
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) (long)
IVRNG: 61553 37113
IVs: 17 / 24 / 22 / 2 / 6 / 12
Time / PID:

Reset #3) (long)
IVRNG: 61553 37113
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) (short)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) (short)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

I do realize this could all just be human error, but I'm using a timer which has given me results consistent to within 4 delay in the past. Could my DS Lite Clock just be that imprecise??

[Kaphotics]

Could be, considering the AR is also in the way.

[mattj]

Okay, more on my suspicion that there's something weird going on with the "seed being generated based only down to the second".

I expanded my Soft Resets. I set my DS Date/Time to 10-25-2010 00:01:00 and started Emloop at that moment. I set emloop first to 33.0, reset 5 times, recorded the IVRNG and or IVs, then dropped emloop to 32.5, repeat, etc, etc... I covered 33.0 - 27.0 (6 seconds, 70 Resets over 2 days). Found a weird, but steady pattern:

...

---

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Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:33:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) good, long
IVRNG: 22202 08963
IVs: 15 / 20 / 20 / 11 / 19 / 26
Time / PID:

Reset #2) good, spam a
IVRNG: 22202 08963
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) good, spam a
IVRNG: 27606 56012
IVs: 11 / 17 / 17 / 8 / 29 / 18
Time / PID:

Reset #4) wonky, long
IVRNG: 22202 08963
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) good, fast
IVRNG: 23675 29853
IVs: 30 / 31 / 0 / 9 / 10 / 27
Time / PID:

(nothing boils over)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:32:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) good synch, long
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) good, short
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) wonky, long
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) good, fast
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) wonky, long
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

(566 and 094 boil below, not above)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:32:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs: 25 / 21 / 8 / 15 / 6 / 19
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs: 29 / 6 / 27 / 24 / 18 / 8
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 56643 52531
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #1) good synch, let the intro play out to gamefreak
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) good synch, let the intro play out to gamefreak
IVRNG: 09428 39817
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) trippy synch, let the intro play out to gamefreak
IVRNG: 56643 52513
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) good synch, spammed A
IVRNG: 42041 62889
IVs: 27 / 2 / 18 / 7 / 9 / 7
Time / PID:

Reset #5) good synch, spammed A
IVRNG: 42041 62889
IVs:
Time / PID:

(566 094 boil over above, but not below, 420 is nowhere else)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:31:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 18908 46324
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 56175 02925
IVs:
Time / PID:

(433, 189, 561 all boil over below, not above)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:31:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs: 12 / 31 / 22 / 19 / 8 / 6
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 56175 02925
IVs: 3 / 17 / 18 / 1 / 28 / 23
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 18908 46324
IVs: 15 / 29 / 20 / 11 / 19 / 24
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 43345 29866
IVs:
Time / PID:

(433, 189, 561 all boil over above, not below)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:30:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1)
IVRNG: 26446 49622
IVs: 31 / 25 / 5 / 28 / 9 / 19
Time / PID:

Reset #2)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs: 3 / 15 / 1 / 7 / 11 / 17
Time / PID:

Reset #3)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4)
IVRNG: 26446 49622
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5)
IVRNG: 26446 49622
IVs:
Time / PID:

( 507boils over below, 264 neither above)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:30:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (long)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) (long)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) (long)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) (short)
IVRNG: 22440 49583
IVs: 31 / 26 / 19 / 5 / 27 / 0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
Time / PID:

Reset #5) (short)
IVRNG: 50730 30907
IVs:
Time / PID:

(507 boils over above, 224 nowhere, neither below)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:29:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (short)
IVRNG: 34723 62374
IVs: 0 / 15 / 19 / 25 / 27 / 13
Time / PID:

Reset #2) (long)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs: 12 / 16 / 18 / 3 / 29 / 19
Time / PID:

Reset #3) (long)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) (short)
IVRNG: 34723 62374
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) (long)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:
(347 and 256 both boil over below, neither above)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:29:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (short)
IVRNG: 34723 62374
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) (long)
IVRNG: 61553 37113
IVs: 17 / 24 / 22 / 2 / 6 / 12
Time / PID:

Reset #3) (long)
IVRNG: 61553 37113
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) (short)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) (short)
IVRNG: 25683 39245
IVs:
Time / PID:

(347, 256 both boil over above, 615 neither, none below)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:28:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) good, long
IVRNG: 33458 15028
IVs: 28 / 31 / 31 / 22 / 20 / 13
Time / PID:

Reset #2) good, long
IVRNG: 33458 15028
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) good, fast
IVRNG: 22646 12025
IVs: 10 / 24 / 24 / 23 / 9 / 4
Time / PID:

Reset #4) good, fast
IVRNG: 22646 12025
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) good, long
IVRNG: 33458 15028
IVs:
Time / PID:

(334, 226, neither above, 334 below)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:28:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) good, long
IVRNG: 61670 08843
IVs: 6 / 15 / 27 / 14 / 12 / 21
Time / PID:

Reset #2)good, short
IVRNG: 61670 08843
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #3) wonky, long
IVRNG: 33458 15028
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) wonky, short
IVRNG: 61670 08843
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) good, long
IVRNG: 61670 08843
IVs:
Time / PID:

(334, above, 616 neither, neither below)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:27:50

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) wonky, long
IVRNG: 39154 39041
IVs: 14 / 21 / 7 / 20 / 18 / 22
Time / PID:

Reset #2) good, long
IVRNG: 33171 16597
IVs: 1 / 11 / 5 / 17 / 30 / 3
Time / PID:

Reset #3) good, short
IVRNG: 39154 39041
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) good, long
IVRNG: 33171 16597
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) good, short
IVRNG: 39154 39041
IVs:
Time / PID:

(391, 331 both below, neither above)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Synch Date/Time: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to 00:27:00

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) good, long
IVRNG: 39154 39041
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #2) good, short
IVRNG: 34317 12632
IVs: 14 / 21 / 5 / 26 / 3 / 14
Time / PID:

Reset #3) good, long
IVRNG: 33171 16597
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #4) good, long
IVRNG: 33171 16597
IVs:
Time / PID:

Reset #5) wonky, short
IVRNG: 33171 16597
IVs:
Time / PID:

(391, 331 both above, 343 neither)

Summed, up, I'm seeing 2 common, distinct IVRNG Seeds for each second, with about 1 "tangent" seed, that just shows up every now and then. This is pretty consistent in these 70 resets, and looking back over my old notes is actually consistent with everything I've seen so far. I expected that maybe the game was determining the IVRNG Seed by the 1/2 a second instead of whole seconds, but these 70 resets don't seem to support that in my view. For an anecdote:

With Emloop set to 00:29:50, 34723 62374 and 25683 39245 both also show up at 00:29:00, but neither show up at 00:30:00. They are both common within 29:00 and 29:50, but the two common IVRNG seeds change to something else at 00:30:00 and above and :28:50 and below.

It would look something like this:
Time Common Seeds
33.0 A B
32.5 C D E
32.0 C D
31.5 F G
31.0 F G H
30.5 I J
30.0 I J
29.5 K L M
29.0 K M
28.5 N O P
28.0 N O
27.5 Q R
27.0 Q S

If this was a matter of human error, or the Action Replay, or the DS Clock inconsistency "throwing the timing off" by a few seconds, I would think that after 70 resets spanning 6 seconds I would find one of those tangent seeds within 3 seconds or so (3 seconds is a pretty dang noticeable amount of lag for the startup screen) but I didn't see a single instance of that. I would also think that I would say (for example from the list I drew up) see an "I" up at 32.5 seconds, or an "M" at 27.5, but nope, not once out of 70 resets. They were always within .5 seconds of each other, and never any farther, always grouped together like that.

It's late, and my brain is fried from resets, but I seem to recall OmegaDonut mentioning something somewhere about "the game randomly advancing some seed by varying amounts at game boot". Could this be where the 2 common and 1 uncommon IVRNG Seeds within any given second are coming from? It could still just be human error, but 1) I'm pretty dang good at hitting 4th Gen Delays with a Timer (which I'm using) and 2) I did 70 Resets! x_x

I just think there's something more than human error, AR inconsistency, or clock inconsistency going on here.

[Kaphotics]

Pokemon from the Dream World
PIDs and IVs are unset, you have to catch them in High Link to "obtain" them. Thus they are RNGable like Wild Pokemon and not like Pokewalker Pokemon.

Not sure on the pattern for PID generation yet, but there is a pattern. You can't save, and the CGear is ON and you can't turn it off (this or something else is advancing it exactly like the cgear did in the overworld), and I don't have a 64bit seed advancer to get a seed/frame spread to see what is called when. RNGing PIDs is pretty pointless, see latter half of post.

IVs are static over a given timespan. They don't change when the cgear ticks change the main RNG.
They would be fairly easy to RNG depending on how/if it reseeds upon entering High Link. Also the CGear must be on, so the typical MTRNG prediction fails. What's important to note is that the MTRNG memory location we know and love is not used to predict the IVs just like once the CGear is activated. It's gotta be another memory location.

------

Pokemon from the Dream World caught in the High Link cannot be shiny due to a shiny check. Can't catch eggs, obviously.

RNG Process => PID1
PID1 is Shiny -> PID1+1000000 hex
-> PID2

proof, this post is getting some publicity on other sites

---

Not sure how to get PID1 and PID2 to be shiny to see if it checks multiple times, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's infinite like the Mystery Gift one (which is XOR'd with 0x1000000 if shiny). The main point is that shiny checks exist for both of these PID generation methods.

Same nature, since that's calculated from a previous call.

[Bond697]

kaph and i were also experimenting with shiny legendaries tonight and we had some interesting results. this is the process i followed:

-start game and note date/time to re-hit seed
-approach victini/kyuremu and catch them, noting their PID
-use pokegen to generate a matching shiny TID/SID for that PID
-change the save file's TID/SID to that shiny TID/SID
-hit the same seed(date/time) to get the same PID and guarantee a shiny

this works just fine for kyuremu. it appears shiny with no issue and has no problems.

victini, however, has issues. encountering/catching it for the first time is no problem. once you change the TID/SID and rehit the seed, however, it will not battle you. if you hit the seed and speak to it, the dialogue box will come up and disappear, but the battle never starts. you can keep talking to it over and over, but the battle will never start. i tried this with multiple shiny TID/SID sets to match its PID, but was never able to get into a battle. kyuremu worked every time, however.

[Garchomper16]

I realized that the egg seems to change everytime you get it from a save...

I am willing to help, I have white (JPN Cart)

also, Omega, you mentioned above that you can manipulate shinyness at this point, do you know how?

and does anyone know if the frame advances or changes if you run from High Link pokemon (trying to SR for shinies but its easier if you can jsut run and battle again)

thanks

[Kudan]

I have the retail cart too (no access to AR though) so if there's anything simple that a noob can help out with, I don't mind.

Originally Posted by Fat Garchomper16

and does anyone know if the frame advances or changes if you run from High Link pokemon (trying to SR for shinies but its easier if you can jsut run and battle again)

I don't have the answers for your question but I'm saving you some time by informing you that Pokemon in HL can't be shiny.

Originally Posted by Fat Kaphotics

Pokemon from the Dream World caught in the High Link cannot be shiny due to a shiny check. Can't catch eggs, obviously.

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Garchomper16

and does anyone know if the frame advances or changes if you run from High Link pokemon (trying to SR for shinies but its easier if you can jsut run and battle again)

Unfortunately, running from a High Link Pokemon does not change the next set of IVs you will get. And as Kaphotics already pointed out, there is a shiny check preventing Dream World shinies.

Anyway, I've been looking at the "Mersenne lookup table" generated when you come up with a seed using the C-Gear. Turns out it's calculated very differently than the table generated when seeded normally at startup, which is why we haven't been able to use the number at 022151D4 to predict IVs.

Normally, the table is generated by multiplying the previous number by 0x6c078965 and the number of previous numbers before it. This new table is not generated by multiplying a single number and adding another, though.

I've also been working on getting some better debugging tools to work, too.

[Kaphotics]

Getting Shiny Starters
You can RNG them, the PID is calculated from the 1st frame, ending on frame 2 for a total of 2 advances. IVs predicted by the IV MTRNG seed.

They will not appear shiny when you open the box, the first moment you can tell is when they pop out of the pokeball. The reason they won't appear shiny is that only the sprite is displayed. Since the PID is calculated from the frame 1, all would appear shiny if it was shiny, however this is not the case.

Not sure on the XOR and why it was different for the different frames, +/-...

-------

I'ma go test the High Link PID generation (more for nature manipulation).
Harder than usual, can't save game to +1 the RNG.

[Kaphotics]

High Link Pokemon Generation

Pre-Dialogue Advancement

Lower Seed	Upper Seed
D6B445DE	8924238B	Start 0 		Just talking the first time
BFBBFD59
B95533E0
A2A6F623	198BE052
04B37592	14A8B8DC	0-FR1	
B3DD235D	11522C6D
81DD5774	477DE531	0-FR2~=~Start A0		Dialogue stops, go to the yes/no option

-------------------------------------------------

Engaging? (Yes) Advancement

Lower Seed	Upper Seed
81DD5774	477DE531	Start A0
04733387	5A2655BE	0-PIDC
C4DE3206	A6EADE7F	...
7ABF9121	392B464F	...	Start A1
D64C89C8	7C619F87	0-FC1	1-PIDC	Start A2
A68D02AB	1BC4BC66	...	...	2-PIDC
62E32F3A	02603513	0-FC2	...	...	Start A3
5AA44AA5	B9D1FC96	0-FC3	1-FC1 	...	3-PIDC
556D5EDC	976FF1E8		...	2-FC1	...
A414C78F	E74C212F		1-FC2 	...	...	PID Displayed in 0225CCA4 for A1
A40DE12E	910737C7		1-FC3	2-FC2	3-FC1 	PID Displayed in 0225CCA4 for A2
B76413E9	34EC0115			2-FC3	...
C0A92AB0	8D0AA6C5				3-FC2	PID Displayed in 0225CCA4 for A3

Generic Pattern
Start A(#) - Yes/No Starting Frame
A(#)+1=Unshown PID Call, changed based on resulting pkm's set gender, and some other factor?
A(#)+4=Frame Change 1 Pokemon # Call
A(#)+6=Frame Change 2 Gender of Pokemon # Call
A(#)+7=Frame Change 3 Battle Flashes Start

0225CCA4 Location for A2
Start-0 022595DC (pointer?)
FC-1 B9D1FC96 [A(#)+3] Wonder what this does... Nature!?
FC-2 1BC4BC80 male Croagunk 1BC4BC02 female Mareep 1BC4BC01 female Nidoran

PIDs and Set Genders

PID Style: (Upper6 hex of PIDC)XY, in which XY is for the gender value which, in general, overwrites Frame 1's Upper Seed's lowest two hex.
There may be certain cases in which the first XY modification fails, and it may change the other bits. I didn't see it happen for like 7 tests.

The modification likes to play really close to gender ratio lines. 

50/50 Female is 0-127, male is 128-225. 
Female looked like it always was around 0~ decimal
Male looked like it was always around 128~ decimal
With different ratios it looked like it didn't stick to this, but meh!

[Kaphotics]

The MTRNG location, if changed, will not change the IVs. It's based off of some other calculation that might be for reseeding. Tested with + without modification, same egg and same IV spread after inheritance.

Can't get the MTRNG to predict my eggs correctly, hitting 94BDA4EB and yet I get the base IVs starting on frame 8 onwards.

Bond got the new version of desmume so we now have the same MAC addresses, but he can't hit the same seeds I can, with the same date/time.
94BDA4EB for me is CF2F251E for him. It won't predict any IVs from that either.

If others could elaborate a little more on the circumstances (roamers???) of when they did it and how it would help iron out kinks.

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Kaphotics

The MTRNG location, if changed, will not change the IVs. It's based off of some other calculation that might be for reseeding. Tested with + without modification, same egg and same IV spread after inheritance.

Can't get the MTRNG to predict my eggs correctly, hitting 94BDA4EB and yet I get the base IVs starting on frame 8 onwards.

The MTRNG uses all 624 of those values, not just the first. It's likely that you getting the same IVs is just a coincidence, or your changing the first value did not have enough of an effect on the final value. What was the original seed before you changed it to (from?) 94BDA4EB?

Bond got the new version of desmume so we now have the same MAC addresses, but he can't hit the same seeds I can, with the same date/time.
94BDA4EB for me is CF2F251E for him. It won't predict any IVs from that either.

Exactly what version of Desmume would this be again?

[mattj]

Well, after a few Resets the other day looking at eggs, I got some promising results:

...

---

2 Random Yooteriis
A) 17 / 27 / 2 / 23 / 10 / 29
B) 8 / 6 / 23 / 9 / 1 / 18
Just looking to see how IVs are passed down.


Resetting on: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to: 28.5

Reset #1)
Egg IVs: 29 / 26 / A / A / 27 / B
Pre-Pickup: spam A
MTIVRNG: forgot @_@

Reset #2)
Egg IVs: 29 / 26 / A / A / 27 / B
Nature: Quiet
Pre-Pickup: spam A
MTIVRNG : 63796 13273

Reset #3)
Egg IVs: 29 / 26 / A / A / 27 / B
Nature: Quiet
Pre-Pickup: spam A
MTIVRNG: 63796 13273

Lol, switching to:
A) Kojofu 28 / 31 / 31 / 22 / 20 / 13 (everstone/jolly)
B) Ditto 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
just to quickly see if this is practical.

Reset #4)
Egg IVs: B / B / 16 / 30 / 27 / B
Nature: Jolly
Pre-Pickup: Spam A
\MTIVRNG: 42464 56250 (different seed, sloppy synch on my part)

Reset #5)
Egg IVs: 29 / 26 / A / A / 27 / B (29 / 26 / 31 / 22 / 27 / 31)
Nature: Jolly (Regeneration)
Pre-Pickup: Spam A
MTIVRNG: 63796 13273

I hit the same egg IVs while Resetting on the same Date/Time, multiple times. Worked fine for me.

Then last night, I tried pausing different lengths of times before picking up the egg. Oivey...

...

---

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Looking for good Egg IV seeds:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

2 Random Yooteriis
A) 17 / 27 / 2 / 23 / 10 / 29 (everstone, Brave)
B) 8 / 6 / 23 / 9 / 1 / 18

Synching to: 10-25-2010 00:01:00
Emloop set to various times.
CGear OFF at Continue.
Spam A to collect Egg.
Record Data.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

25.0 Seconds
Unkown
A) 17 / 27 / 2 / 23 / 10 / 29 (everstone, Brave)
B) 8 / 6 / 23 / 9 / 1 / 18

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (immediate)
Offspring IVs: 8 / 6 / 2 / 24 / 10 / 15 (B / B / A / 24 / A / 15)
IVMTRNG: 20166 45715

Reset #2) (pause)
Offspring IVs: 8 / 6 / 28 / 24 / 10 / 15 (B / B / 28 / 24 / A / 15)
IVMTRNG: 20166 45715

Reset #3) (immediate)
Offspring IVs: 8 / 6 / 2 / 24 / 10 / 15 (B / B / A / 24 / A / 15)
IVMTRNG: 20166 45715

Reset #4) (pause)
Offspring IVs: 5 / 6 / 23 / 4 / 1 / 13 (5 / B / B / 4 / B / 13)
IVMTRNG: 23037 08423

Reset #5) (pause)
Offspring IVs: 8 / 27 / 23 / 24 / 23 / 15 (B / A / B / 24 / 23 / 15)
IVMTRNG: 20166 45715

Reset #6) (no everstone, immediate)
Offspring IVs: 5 / 6 / 3 / 9 / 10 / 13 (5 / B / 3 / B / A / 13)
IVMTRNG: 23037 08423

Reset #7) (no everstone, immediate)
Offspring IVs: 5 / 27 / 3 / 23 / 5 / 18 (5 / A / 3 / A / 5 / B)
IVMTRNG: 23037 08423

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

26.0 Seconds
Unknown
A) 17 / 27 / 2 / 23 / 10 / 29 (everstone, Brave)
B) 8 / 6 / 23 / 9 / 1 / 18

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reset #1) (immediate)
Offspring IVs: 17 / 27 / 2 / 9 / 18 / 29 (A / A / A / B / 18 / A)
IVMTRNG: 26374 04520

Reset #2) (pause)
Offspring IVs: 17 / 27 / 28 / 9 / 18 / 29 (A / A / 28 / B / 18 / A)
IVMTRNG: 26374 04520

Reset #3) (immediate)
Offspring IVs: 17 / 27 / 2 / 9 / 18 / 29 (A / A / A / B / 18 / A)
IVMTRNG: 26374 04520

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

That looks to me a whole lot like the Egg IVs that are inherited and generated are changing with the amount of time you pause before picking up the egg. I though the Everstone might be screwing with something so I took it off, and no.

Can any of you guys with the capability to do so see if there's some value advancing the inherited and generated egg IVs from either time, or the RMNPCs? I hope to God they're not "on the same frame" like 4th Gen Method 1 pokes were.

[Kaphotics]

94BDA4EB -> 00000000

0.9.7

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Kaphotics

94BDA4EB -> 00000000

0.9.7

Desmume 0.9.7 assigns a different MAC address to each user, that's why you're getting different results. This was a decision made by the programmers because 0.9.7 can actually connect to Nintendo Wi-Fi*, and they didn't want all the same MAC addresses trying to connect.

* Or so they say. I haven't managed to get it to work.

[Kaphotics]

Interesting, I'd have to ask Bond because he said that he now has the same MAC address as me for some reason...

00-09-BF-12-34-56 is my mac address.

Ehh I guess I meant to say 0.9.6, I mistook what he said thinking he got the new version and his mac became like mine

[Bond697]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

Desmume 0.9.7 assigns a different MAC address to each user, that's why you're getting different results. This was a decision made by the programmers because 0.9.7 can actually connect to Nintendo Wi-Fi*, and they didn't want all the same MAC addresses trying to connect.

* Or so they say. I haven't managed to get it to work.

kaph is on .9.6 which just uses the default mac. i am too and i have the same mac. nothing wrong there. i was just explaining this to him, actually. i had said there was a new SVN version out, but i wasn't using it.

there's no official .9.7 yet, right? it's just SVN snapshots. also, you need to install winpcap to get desmume to use your own network hardware as the softAP.

yeah though, i hit the same time the same way he did with the same MAC and got a different seed that's nowhere close to his.

[Kaphotics]

As per request, checking to see if Zekrom can be shiny or not:

img test results

---

Well that sucks.

Note this was done with changing IDs, not with RNG since I don't have a way of finding shiny frames for seeds I hit, so I just rehit the seed with changed IDs via a save editor (lol)

For now I'd be skeptical of any shiny Reshiram/Zekrom/Victini (Meroetta/Keruido maybe?) until credible proof has been given (not just lol I just soft reset for it). This + the Victini thing I posted earlier is in line with the Japanese Wiki which says that they can't be shiny.

This means that the Zekrom/Reshiram PID RNG should not be considered in any algorithm used for RNG, it'd just be a waste of time!

[The Shadow Knight]

Just dropping by to say that I've hit an Egg IV spread that passes 4 IV's from the parents, just to confirm the odd looking spreads mattj's posted. I guess this is a change from 4t gen breeding?

[Dan Dan]

Don't know how or if this will help, but here are a few runs I've done throughout the day:

Parent A - 2 / 5 / 14 / 20 / 23 / 31
Parent B - 6 / 31 / 31 / 28 / 12 / 28

(not the best parents I know, but all i had to breed with karp >_>)
_________________________________________

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:20
Continue: 15:57:34
Enter game: 15:57:41
Collect Egg: 15:57:47

IVs: 17 / 31 / 14 / 7 / 20-21 / 28 Adamant (F)
---- 17 / B / A / 7 / 20-21 / B

------------------------------------

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:20
Continue: 15:57:34
Enter game: 15:57:42
Collect Egg: 15:57:47

IVs: 17 / 12-13 / 31 / 28 / 20-21 / 31 Impish (M)
---- 17 / 12-13 / B / B / 20-21 / A

------------------------------------

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:20
Continue: 15:57:34
Enter game: 15:57:42
Collect Egg: 15:57:42

IVs: 17 / 31 / 15-16 / 7 / 23 / 28 Lax (F)
---- 17 / B / 15-16 / 7 / A / B

------------------------------------

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:20
Continue: 15:57:34
Enter game: 15:57:42
Collect Egg: 15:57:43

IVs: 17 / 31 / 15-16 / 7 / 23 / 28 Lax (F)
---- 17 / B / 15-16 / 7 / A / B

*repeat despite different egg collect times*
------------------------------------

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:20
Continue: 15:57:34
Enter game: 15:57:42
Collect Egg: 15:57:44

IVs: 17 / 31 / 14 / 7 / 20-21 / 28 Neutral (F)
---- 17 / B / A / 7 / 20-21 / B

**same as first one, but different nature..**

------------------------------------

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:20
Continue: 15:57:40
Enter game: 15:57:48
Collect Egg: 15:57:49

IVs: 17 / 31 / 15-16 / 7 / 23 / 28 Lax (F)
---- 17 / B / 15-16 / 7 / A / B

*another repeat, but this was after intentionally waiting longer at the continue screen, and then collecting the egg asap.*
------------------------------------

Synch Time: 15:57:00
Reset Time: 15:57:18
Continue: 15:57:32
Enter game: 15:57:
Collect Egg: 15:57:42

IVs: 6 / 5 / 6 / 4-5 / 12 / 14 Naive (F)
---- B / A / 6 / 4-5 / B / 14

***changed the reset time, and voila different spread altogether.***
------------------------------------

Notice all the ones reset at 15:57:20 have 17 HP IV. This could just be "luck." I hope this isn't just repeating what is already known -_-

[Kaphotics]

Felt a little bored so I wanted to continue with the what can be shiny what can't stuff... this time Manaphy!

image of... manaphy!

---

Looks like Manaphy can now "hatch" as a shiny.

The PID did not change upon unboxing it, or hatching it. It was a Manaphy egg from the previous generation generated with a random PID in Pokesav, and put in the box with the egg met location of Link trade as per last generation.

Note this is a hackish way of obtaining a manaphy, it is only for testing purposes as there is no Manaphy egg Gift/Wonder Card as of now.

Tested gift generation via the wondercard gift from the Delivery Man.

Sucks. Same XOR like the Mystery Gift check. I didn't bother testing the generation method, it might not even be different this gen.

Note this is a fake wondercard gift, there may be some flag in the card that allows shinies to be preset or allowed (0x37h). Unknown until we get a Manaphy Gift/Card. Or something entirely different that makes it generate different.

So, for now it looks like Manaphy will be able to be RNG'd in the same fashion as last generation, unless a PID check is executed upon trading. Someone else can confirm/deny this by trading a fake manaphy egg to someone in which it would hatch shiny, to see if it does.

Guess that is just good news, but not great :P

/thatsallfornow

[Bitterlemon]

I'm using Desmume 0.9.6 in order to test some spreads and shininess with breeds in White, no C-Gear used.

Fist of all, the same frame holds the same PID, regardless of species, but you won't be able to hit the same frame if you change your parents from [pkm & ditto] to [pkmF & pkmM]. This means that, for example, you found a good iv spread in frame 2 with dokkora and ditto, but when you breed dokkoraF and dokkoraM you'll find the same spread on frame 3 with the same PID but most likely with a different nature.

Ivs are separated in two "layers", a first layer which is determined by the seed and another layer which corresponds to the IVs passed on by parents.
The first layer is static, it doesn't change, while the second layer varies with the frame.

An example: Frame 1 has 20/10/30/31/0/2 (nature = fixed brave)
Frame 2 has 31/10/22/31/0/2 (nature = everstone)
and so on...

Last but not least here's shadowhunter's guide for breeding shinies the old fashioned way -> http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=12

[The Shadow Knight]

Which means that if you find a time and date that gives a high number of 31's you can SR on that seed and let the frame advance by waiting and by doing such land on a frame where the right stats are inherited, right?

EDIT: I wonder if this is similar to gen 4 ...

[Bitterlemon]

Originally Posted by Fat The Shadow Knight

Which means that if you find a time and date that gives a high number of 31's you can SR on that seed and let the frame advance by waiting and by doing such land on a frame where the right stats are inherited, right?

Yes, you can do that, power items may come in handy too.