The Move: Super Fang

[blasphemy1]

Originally Posted by Fat Lemmiwinks MkII

I meant that both Glalie and Nidoqueen get Crunch to hit the Ghosts that block Super Fang for SE damage. Sorry if I worded it badly.

Also, it confuses me when people say that Super Fang helps bring walls into KO range. Surely if you can KO something at half health, then you can also 2HKO them at full health. I guess it eases prediction if you can 2HKO everything with your three regular attacks, but otherwise I don't get it tbh.

Oh, sorry about the confusion.

Yeah, that is the idea. If you can Super Fang something like Hippowdon on the switch with Nidoking, it is more beneficial than if you were to simply use Earthquake. Super Fang neuters all walls that aren't ghost type, and allows you to 2HKO everything assuming you have the right moves.

[RegalStar]

Super Fang mainly works to bring walls into KO range of something else. Some premier walls of their tier (think Registeel) have no reliable 50% recovery move, so halving their health is quite a huge deal.

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Crobat is an interesting case, but IMO I think it needs to keep Brave Bird in its moveset so that it can check common offensive threats such as Infernape, Lucario and Gengar (!!!). A set based purely around defeating stall with Mean Look + Super Fang seems too specialized and wastes Crobat's versatility against offense.

Speaking of stall, let's not forget that the number one switch-in to Crobat on stall is Rotom-A, who is present on just about EVERY good OU stall team. Super Fang is useless against it, as is Brave Bird in fact, and Crobat is obviously forced to switch out of it or suffer the consequences. So even a specialized stallbreaker set doesn't get everything going its way.

Though throw in a bit of Pursuit support from Tyranitar or whatever? Then it becomes a bit more interesting.

[WarriorPrince]

Mixed Nidoking can now break walls in any tier.

Nidoking for BL?? lol jk.

I think Nidoking can cause some trouble, having both Super Fang and Suckerpunch.

Opponent switched in Gengar. Super Fang doesn't affect it. Nidoking uses Sucker punch. Gengar dies, dies, dies. With Super Fang, Nidoking can 2HKO many OU walls as well, since it has such a diverse move pool.

[youknowwhoitis]

This entire thread is just theorymon--we don't know if it will really have an impact.

[Eraddd]

Originally Posted by Fat youknowwhoitis

This entire thread is just theorymon--we don't know if it will really have an impact.

Because a move where a pokemon can half the hp of a wall, that otherwise counters it, won't have an impact. It's more like common sense.

[sanjay120]

Originally Posted by Fat youknowwhoitis

This entire thread is just theorymon--we don't know if it will really have an impact.

kind of like how all the garchomp hype was just theorymon?

i am soooo excited for crobat. super fang on the switch, uturn to a counter. and toxicroak on a rain dance team. and of course, walrein for uber.

[kd24]

Opponent switched in Gengar. Super Fang doesn't affect it. Nidoking uses Sucker punch. Gengar dies, dies, dies. With Super Fang, Nidoking can 2HKO many OU walls as well, since it has such a diverse move pool.

Or you just use Substitute with whatever Ghost-type you bring in :/

The only real Super Fang threat I can think of is Walrein with Super Fang/Substitute/Protect/Brine or Blizzard. Hail has always been a defensive strategy that is usually coupled with Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, and I imagine Walrein can just sit behind his Substitutes (which he can set up on Blissey, Forretress, whatever) and start using Super Fang to bring whatever it wants into residual damage KO range.

There are some other interesting options but I personally will keep an eye on Walrein the most, as he is probably the best defensive user of Super Fang (which is where I find its true appeal, not offensively).

[A.P.]

Nidoking's problem is that it can't get everything (ie 4-MS Syndrome), with Super Fang, Sucker Punch, and two fillers. Theoretically, it can hit the entire metagame, but the point is: it can't cover everything.

[One Hit Knockout]

O.o Sharpedo with all that power??? Broken much??? None the less, it seems like it will be placed on my team.

[reyscarface]

Originally Posted by Fat Bill Miller

so how does this effect STAB!?!? that seems like it would OHKO everything O.O

Super Fang does half the opponent's HP all the time, STAB isnt taken into account.

[1059860]

Originally Posted by Fat Terywj

On the other hand, Stallrein sets running Substitute / Protect / Super Fang / Blizzard now can stall for MORE than 32 turns, shooting Stallrein to the Uber Tier or Hail Stall Play.

-Terywj

I would use Aqua Ring over either Substitute or Protect since that's even better. Especially if Toxic Spikes had been lain down beforehand.

Originally Posted by Fat 031ap

Nidoking's problem is that it can't get everything (ie 4-MS Syndrome), with Super Fang, Sucker Punch, and two fillers. Theoretically, it can hit the entire metagame, but the point is: it can't cover everything.

However, your opponent won't likely to know your moveset until you have used it... If they don't know what's coming, screwing them over is quite easy. Less predictable = wilder games.

[Onii]

Seeing Purugly getting it makes me wonder, what would it add to a speedshuffling team?

It's only one slot, so it shouldn't affect the probability of getting a phazing move terribly much, but it would speed up the shuffle process quite significantly, especially against something like Flygon, which would otherwise take forever to kill.

[blasphemy1]

Why do you need Sucker Punch on Nidoking? You are still going to lose to Mismagius and Rotom, the former due to Substitute, the latter because of Will-o-Wisp, and Nidoking enjoys having 3 reliable attacking moves(as an example, Earthquake, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, etc.) In OU, Gengar will switch, as most people should know by now Nidoking has Sucker Punch, and Rotom-A will burn you.

[1059860]

You don't, but I just mentioned it on the list of Pokemon with priority moves for the convenience and to show how many of them are actually accessible to at least one.

[Phadunk]

Good. It finally gave a handful of Pokemon the attention they deserve.

Nidoking ftw.

[tophway]

Just in the interest of exploration, if your health is right you can jump into Super Fangs + entry hazards to activate berries with calculated coolness. Maybe give you that speed or power boost you need to take out a pesky Super Fanger.

[Diesel]

It should be noted that Crobat will have a hard time switching in repeatedly with Stealth Rock in play, and that most Ghost-types don't mind switching into it at all. Pursuit Spiritomb in particular would also do nicely against Crobat, who won't like taking Pursuit when it has to switch out. Rotom-A should see a rise in usage after Super Fang is added to Shoddy, not that it wasn't already 6th last month. It has Super Effective STAB on both Crobat and Walrein, and won't mind repeatedly switching in to Crobat.

With this in mind, however, Crobat should be an excellent Ghost lure, as it can scare something off, then U-turn to scout, and switch to a Pursuit user if it likes what it sees. Because of this, I like its chances of being successful, despite the fact that I agree with KD24 in that Super Fang will mostly be used on defensively based pokemon.

Originally Posted by Fat One Hit Knockout

O.o Sharpedo with all that power??? Broken much??? None the less, it seems like it will be placed on my team.

Yea we should ban it ASAP. Is it even possible to OHKO Sharpedo?

Edit: For completion's sake, Crobat gets Quick Attack.

[btb]

Sharpedo has access to Brine as well as Super Fang which means that if it Super Fangs on the switch, halving the opponent's health, it can unleash an 130 BP STAB move, which coupled with its 95 base Sp.Attack pretty much ensures the KO if the opponent doesn't resist it.

[youknowwhoitis]

Originally Posted by Fat sanjay120

kind of like how all the garchomp hype was just theorymon?

You neglected to mention that Rhyperior, Porygon-Z, and Rampardos recieved just as much, if not more hype than Garchomp.

[kd24]

that was a case of healthy theorymonning, because those were primarily the first pokemon tested on shoddy, just to see how strong they were. people then posted their results on why they either worked (like rhyperior/chomp) or they still had problems despite our thinking (pz/ramp).

there is nothing really wrong with the theorymon being given, if anything, it is motivating people to try out the new sets once shoddy comes out.

[wDro]

Originally Posted by Fat Diesel

It should be noted that Crobat will have a hard time switching in repeatedly with Stealth Rock in play, and that most Ghost-types don't mind switching into it at all. Pursuit Spiritomb in particular would also do nicely against Crobat, who won't like taking Pursuit when it has to switch out. Rotom-A should see a rise in usage after Super Fang is added to Shoddy, not that it wasn't already 6th last month. It has Super Effective STAB on both Crobat and Walrein, and won't mind repeatedly switching in to Crobat.

With this in mind, however, Crobat should be an excellent Ghost lure, as it can scare something off, then U-turn to scout, and switch to a Pursuit user if it likes what it sees. Because of this, I like its chances of being successful, despite the fact that I agree with KD24 in that Super Fang will mostly be used on defensively based pokemon.



Yea we should ban it ASAP. Is it even possible to OHKO Sharpedo?

Edit: For completion's sake, Crobat gets Quick Attack.

I only see rotom to be the problem here. Neutral 252 atk Crobat can OHKO 0/0 gengar and mismagius with brave bird. Spiritomb can't do much to crobat if it stays in and taunts. So ya, I agree with you that Rotom-A will get eve more popular.

[familyguyman]

Originally Posted by Fat Lemmiwinks MkII

I meant that both Glalie and Nidoqueen get Crunch to hit the Ghosts that block Super Fang for SE damage. Sorry if I worded it badly.

Also, it confuses me when people say that Super Fang helps bring walls into KO range. Surely if you can KO something at half health, then you can also 2HKO them at full health. I guess it eases prediction if you can 2HKO everything with your three regular attacks, but otherwise I don't get it tbh.

Super Fang does 50% health to everything. Blissey and Skarmory both take big damage, going down to like 43.75% HP with Rocks up.

It's not so much that they are in KO range, it's that you can essentially do good, unresisted damage to any switch in except Ghosts. This is especially good for things like Bronzong who can't recover HP and is a tough wall to take down.

Obviously things like Infernape are still better mixed attackers, but Super Fang is a catch all move.

[doppio]

Originally Posted by Fat RegalStar

Super Fang mainly works to bring walls into KO range of something else. Some premier walls of their tier (think Registeel) have no reliable 50% recovery move, so halving their health is quite a huge deal.

I guess for this reason Wish support will be of even greater importance. Hell, Disable may see more use too (and that's a move seen as hardly viable). :S

Originally Posted by Fat wDro

I only see rotom to be the problem here. Neutral 252 atk Crobat can OHKO 0/0 gengar and mismagius with brave bird. Spiritomb can't do much to crobat if it stays in and taunts. So ya, I agree with you that Rotom-A will get eve more popular.

I for one think Hidden Power Ice (or maybe Electric) is a nice move on Spiritomb... So it may be worth looking at in light of this. Crobat will end up pretty low considering SR is up (also depending on how many EVs invested into special attack and held item), then once it Roosts, Spiritomb can either get out of dodge without having to worry about being attacked, or use WoW if it got Crobat on the switch. So I wouldn't say Spiritomb is entirely helpless. Crobat will still have to be careful the other two ghosts aren't scarfers also, as their attacking prowess is greater.

[frogbandit]

Hmm...im most excited about stallrein learning super fang. a rise in hail stall teams?