Remove Decorations from ADV/GSC item pages

eric the espeon · Dec 7th, 2009, 10:42:27 AM

While looking through the items pages for several generations I noticed an inconsistency which makes navigating GS and especially RS pages quite annoying, the inclusion of "Decorations". The DP pages do not include these for good reason, they have absolutely zero competitive effect and zero effect on productive ingame play. I'm not entirely sure why they were added in the first place, but the descriptions seem to be ripped directly from the game and are not even particularly helpful. I doubt any Smogoner will ever really find these pages useful, they quite clearly do not fit within "Competitive Pokemon", and they unnecessarily clog up the item list making it annoying to read through when looking for useful items, or ones that you may actually want to know about. The kicker is that they are not even really items..

Advantages for Smogon:
Cleaner, nicer looking item lists.
Sticks better to what we intend to write about, competitive Pokemon
Improves consistency between generations

I have complied a list of items that fall under decorations for RS and GS:

RS Decorations

GS Decorations

and if jigglypuff_poste is kept, it needs an r added to the end.

I have checked and SCMS seems to only allow me to edit competitive items in RS (so none of these), all items in GS, but gives no ability to remove (though I can remove all content). If I had the ability to I would happily volunteer to do everything I can myself (Colin mentioned a script of some kind which would update the main item list page automatically from the individual item pages, so that would need to be run by someone other than me). If only site staffers can remove these pages, and one of them is willing to work with me that would be great.

Edit: After talking to RBG, BK and Mingot it seems that site staff are not able to remove item pages. Would it be possible to change the permissions relatively easily for a short time while this is done, or possibly use a script that uses the list to quickly remove them all? Also, on RBG's suggestion I will be replacing spaces with underscores for ease of parseing.

And whether or not this happens, maybe Item Name Description could go?

cim · Dec 7th, 2009, 12:29:47 PM

There are plenty of items listed in the Dex that have no competitive value (for this I take the liberal approach of "if a pokemon can hold it, it matters to competitive play") that are in the Item Dex, including decorations. Why are they there?

eric the espeon · Dec 7th, 2009, 1:02:43 PM

The difference is almost all of them have some use in game, and people play the games to reach a stage where they can make a competitive team. People are may to go to the item page and look up what a Scared Ash does, or check the relative catch rates of Ultra Balls and Dive Balls (note to self: add catch rate multiplier to Dive Ball), but realistically no one who should be on Smogon wants to read

Quote:

Lapras Doll A large doll. Place it on a mat or a desk.

You could argue that a few non decoration items should be removed, but it would not be simple to sort the ones with "some" ingame use from those without any. My proposal would clear out a vast majority of the truly useless items (technically, they are not even items. So you could argue that they should go from that line of reasoning as well.) with little or no arbitrariness or need for discussion about what exactly should stay or go.

And if the proposed organization of items is implemented, the "in game competitive" and "shoddy/link competitive" items should be quite clearly distinct. You could suggest that if at some stage the items are categorized then maybe decorations should stay, however the fact is they contribute nothing to Smogon, do not fit with the competitive goals at all (do we have a guide for ball seals?), are not even items, and would still clog up the big list.

Dec 7th, 2009, 10:42:27 AM	#1
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Remove Decorations from ADV/GSC item pages While looking through the items pages for several generations I noticed an inconsistency which makes navigating GS and especially RS pages quite annoying, the inclusion of "Decorations". The DP pages do not include these for good reason, they have absolutely zero competitive effect and zero effect on productive ingame play. I'm not entirely sure why they were added in the first place, but the descriptions seem to be ripped directly from the game and are not even particularly helpful. I doubt any Smogoner will ever really find these pages useful, they quite clearly do not fit within "Competitive Pokemon", and they unnecessarily clog up the item list making it annoying to read through when looking for useful items, or ones that you may actually want to know about. The kicker is that they are not even really items.. Advantages for Smogon: Cleaner, nicer looking item lists. Sticks better to what we intend to write about, competitive Pokemon Improves consistency between generations I have complied a list of items that fall under decorations for RS and GS: RS Decorations a_note_mat attract_mat azurill_doll b_note_mat ball_cushion ball_poster baltoy_doll blastoise_doll blue_balloon blue_brick blue_poster blue_tent breakable_door brick_chair brick_desk c_high_note_mat c_low_note_mat camp_chair camp_desk charizard_doll chikorita_doll clefairy_doll colorful_plant comfort_chair comfort_desk cute_poster cute_tv cyndaquil_doll d_note_mat diamond_cushion ditto_doll duskull_doll e_note_mat f_note_mat fence_length fence_width fire_blast_mat fire_cushion fissure_mat g_note_mat glass_ornament glitter_mat gold_shield gorgeous_plant grass_cushion green_poster gulpin_doll hard_chair hard_desk heavy_chair heavy_desk jigglypuff_doll jump_mat kecleon_doll kiss_cushion kiss_poster lapras_doll long_poster lotad_doll marill_doll meowth_doll mud_ball mudkip_doll pichu_doll pika_cushion pika_poster pikachu_doll pokemon_chair pokemon_desk powder_snow_mat pretty_chair pretty_desk pretty_flowers ragged_chair ragged_desk red_balloon red_brick red_plant red_poster red_tent regice_doll regirock_doll registeel_doll rhydon_doll round_cushion round_tv sand_ornament sea_poster seedot_doll silver_shield skitty_doll sky_poster slide small_chair small_desk snorlax_doll solid_board spikes_mat spin_cushion spin_mat stand surf_mat swablu_doll thunder_mat tire togepi_doll torchic_doll totodile_doll treecko_doll tropical_plant tv venusaur_doll wailmer_doll water_cushion wynaut_doll yellow_balloon yellow_brick zigzag_cushion GS Decorations big_onix big_snorlax blue_carpet bulbasaur_doll charmander_doll christmas_tree clefairy_doll clefairy_poster diglett_doll feather_bed gengar_doll geodude_doll gold_trophy green_carpet jigglypuff_doll jigglypuff_poste jumbo_plant machop_doll magikarp_doll magna_plant nes nintendo64 oddish_doll pikachu_bed pikachu_doll pikachu_poster pink_bed poliwag_doll polkadot_bed silver_trophy squirtle_doll staryu_doll super_nes surf_pikachu_doll tropic_plant unown_doll virtual_boy voltorb_doll yellow_carpet and if jigglypuff_poste is kept, it needs an r added to the end. I have checked and SCMS seems to only allow me to edit competitive items in RS (so none of these), all items in GS, but gives no ability to remove (though I can remove all content). If I had the ability to I would happily volunteer to do everything I can myself (Colin mentioned a script of some kind which would update the main item list page automatically from the individual item pages, so that would need to be run by someone other than me). If only site staffers can remove these pages, and one of them is willing to work with me that would be great. Edit: After talking to RBG, BK and Mingot it seems that site staff are not able to remove item pages. Would it be possible to change the permissions relatively easily for a short time while this is done, or possibly use a script that uses the list to quickly remove them all? Also, on RBG's suggestion I will be replacing spaces with underscores for ease of parseing. And whether or not this happens, maybe Item Name Description could go? __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted. Last edited by eric the espeon; Dec 17th, 2009 at 9:55:33 PM.

Dec 7th, 2009, 12:29:47 PM	#2
cim dreams of ladybugs crushed forever Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,366 five years here and i can't change my custom title :(	There are plenty of items listed in the Dex that have no competitive value (for this I take the liberal approach of "if a pokemon can hold it, it matters to competitive play") that are in the Item Dex, including decorations. Why are they there? __________________ i was nobody we're all a little bit strange, don't worry about it