Pokemon Draft!

[Wikey]

I think the most important thing to figure out isn't how to draft the pokemon but rather which pokemon to have in the draft. Most importantly, whether or not to have multiple entries of the same species or not. Take the top 9 most used OUs for example. If there are more than 9 players drafting from a pool that contains only one of each of them the nine players that get them are going to have a huge advantage over other players. (Maybe not so much the guy that gets haxrachi, but I digress.) Some of those top nine are akin to having a guy like Peyton Manning on your team. They are heads, shoulders, and elbows above the next most comparable pokemon.

I think a draft with multiple but different entries from the same species could be alright. Maybe having two Scizors, but one of them has Technician the other has Swarm. Or two of the same pokemon but with different natures. Limiting them to specific movepools and EVs would be too restrictive but I think limiting them to specific natures and abilites would work alright. The only problem would be cheating as there is no way to tell the nature of a pokemon in battle afaik.

[zarator]

Originally Posted by Fat Wikey

I think a draft with multiple but different entries from the same species could be alright. Maybe having two Scizors, but one of them has Technician the other has Swarm. Or two of the same pokemon but with different natures. Limiting them to specific movepools and EVs would be too restrictive but I think limiting them to specific natures and abilites would work alright. The only problem would be cheating as there is no way to tell the nature of a pokemon in battle afaik.

Which is why I think different entries could be based on the different sets from Somogon analyses or something like that. Pokémon like Tyranitar are so versatile that things like Tyraniboah and DDTar can almost function as different Pokémon altogether. The only problem is that Pokémon like Scizor do not have the same variety of things like Salamence or Tyranitar.

[Old Man Reaver]

As I mentioned in the first post, the problem with drafting specific sets is that you might not get the right sets you need with 9x Pokemon in the pool (where x is the number of players). Additionally, Clefable has 15 sets listed on its analysis page, whereas Ninjask has three. While the Ninjask sets do pretty much the same thing and can be worked around, the chances of getting the Clefable set you need are very, very low. You may want a set that can wall special attackers, but instead, the Clefable in the pool might be a Life Orb attacker.

To compensate for this, you'd have to generate more Pokemon to put in the pool and their sets (a painstaking process).

Imo, fixed sets create more problems than advantages over freed sets.

[ANinyMouse]

Posting simply to say that I would be very interested in playing a game of "Draft Pokemon," if such a game ever saw Shoddy support.

I could theoretically run a DS Draft game myself, having a flash card (and therefore unlimited resources), but I don't have enough free time between my two jobs to do anything but grab a few games, let alone plan and orchestrate everything myself.

[Acritter]

Allow me to elaborate on my problems with hidden-pack drafting. Since each player will only draft eight Pokemon, there is a distinct likelihood of taking a Pokemon with intent of picking up another type of Pokemon later (say, Salamence with the intent of later getting a bulky Water to absorb Ice damage) and being unable to find a Pokemon which fits the bill, either because everyone took them or the pool is simply lacking in the type needed. That is more comparable to drafting a one-drop in trying to force an aggressive deck, but never finding the offensive curve to flesh out your idea. Cube solves this problem, by giving you a much wider choice of Pokemon to fill each role, and never stymieing you for a possible solution.

If you're looking for a good place to host the draft, I would have thought the answer to be rather simple. Just use these forums, set a time for everyone to draft at and draft away in a thread dedicated to the purpose!

[Wikey]

Originally Posted by Fat The Reaver

As I mentioned in the first post, the problem with drafting specific sets is that you might not get the right sets you need with 9x Pokemon in the pool (where x is the number of players). Additionally, Clefable has 15 sets listed on its analysis page, whereas Ninjask has three. While the Ninjask sets do pretty much the same thing and can be worked around, the chances of getting the Clefable set you need are very, very low. You may want a set that can wall special attackers, but instead, the Clefable in the pool might be a Life Orb attacker.

To compensate for this, you'd have to generate more Pokemon to put in the pool and their sets (a painstaking process).

Imo, fixed sets create more problems than advantages over freed sets.

Any good drafter has to look at what he can pick now and decide whether it's a good pick or not based on what he will be able to pick later. Say you wanted to pick a pokemon with your current pick that would need a specially wall to back it up and the only special wall left is the special wall Clefable you mentioned, it would probably be in your best interest to draft a different pokemon if it isn't likely that the Clefable you want will still be around by the time your pick comes back around.

Also, the problem with snake drafting is that people at the extreme ends of the snake have a huge advantage over people towards the middle. I have learned this from years of fantasy drafts in Madden with multiple people.

[Huntofthelion]

Cool Idea, as Zwing said you should talk to a Tournament Director if you want to make this serious.

[Twin_Scimitar]

Originally Posted by Fat The Reaver

That's my issue as well. Even if it were handled by TOs, people could still cheat. One TO can't watch every game.

Imo, a draft version that would be less prone to cheating would be better suitable for this type of thing. Even if Rochester or the bid draft aren't as fun as a booster version, they're easier to keep track of.

And now that I look at it, I agree with the mythic rare thing. I'd reworked the entire rarity thing in my head last night, using MtG as a model. Basically, instead of of the 3 OU, 6 UU for every 9, we would separate the giant conglomerate of the OU, BL, and UU tiers into Top, Middle, and Bottom groups based on usage, simply because Rare, Uncommon, and Common sounds too much like a TCG, which this isn't. =P

Now, since we have three groups, we can't just simply through in OUs and UUs and hope for the best. We have to include each of these groups. However, imo, a 3:3:3 ratio wouldn't be fair because the Bottoms would always go last. Therefore, the next best thing is to separate it into a 2:3:4 ratio (2 Top, 3 Middle, 4 Bottom). For example, in a four person draft, you would have 8 Pokemon from the Top, 12 from the Middle, and 16 from the Bottom. How does that sound?

Regarding the cutoffs for each of the groups, I took a look at Zendikar and their rarity ratios. There are 15 Mythics, 53 Rares, 60 Uncommons, 101 Commons, and 20 Lands for a total of 249. For simplicity, I combined the Mythics with the Rares for a total of 68 Rares and the Lands with the Commons for a total of 121 Commons. It's easy to see that they're in a rough 1:1:2 ratio.

There are 113 Pokemon in OU+BL+UU, but I combined all of the alternate Rotom formes into a single Rotom-A, just because it seems a little weird to restrict players to a single Rotom forme. I then made ratios of Rare:Total, Uncommon:Total, and Common:Total and multiplied that number with 109 to get the following:

30:26:53

Then I saw that all of UU except for Venusaur, Arcanine, Honchkrow, and Uxie were in the Bottom group, which didn't make much sense to me. I fudged the numbers a little to move all of UU into the bottom group.

28:24:57

So, if a rarity base is in favor for determining the Pokemon in the pool, those would be good numbers to use. Any suggestions for this are welcome. =)

I do think that the mtg draft style would work, however for the sake of getting this idea off the ground i'll let it drop. I'd advocate the Rochester draft, for both, quality of the draft, and for ease of supervising.

I don't think the majority of the smogon players taking place in this draft will have drafted pokemon before, so I strongly recommend making the draft only OU. I'd do this just to make it easier on drafters, since most people know which pokemon work for an OU team, and how they work in one.

I'm 100% behind this idea, and am willing to help you organize a tournament if that is your aspiration. I don't think that the rarity discussion necessarily needs to be fleshed out in this thread, and I would recommend that everyone interested in helping out discuss this via PM or over irc. If you still want to gauge the amount of interest, I suppose we could leave this thread open, or get it moved.

From what I know about "cube drafting", is that it is the same as a regular draft, just that the TOs create the pool deliberately rather than randomly, and that the "cub" is made public before the draft. I am fairly certain that the individual packs are still randomized though.

I'd rather keep a completely random draft for all of OU, and just have each person draft more than 8 pokes, perhaps 10 or 12, to compensate for variability. If it doesn't work out at first, a cube draft is certainly an option. Please let me know if I don't understand the concept of a cube draft.

I know that DJXO9 said he had some interest in helping, which is awesome, anyone else interested should let it be known.

[Old Man Reaver]

Originally Posted by Fat Wikey

Any good drafter has to look at what he can pick now and decide whether it's a good pick or not based on what he will be able to pick later. Say you wanted to pick a pokemon with your current pick that would need a specially wall to back it up and the only special wall left is the special wall Clefable you mentioned, it would probably be in your best interest to draft a different pokemon if it isn't likely that the Clefable you want will still be around by the time your pick comes back around.

Also, the problem with snake drafting is that people at the extreme ends of the snake have a huge advantage over people towards the middle. I have learned this from years of fantasy drafts in Madden with multiple people.

Granted, taking the Clefable if no other decent sets to back it up were in the pool would be a bad idea, but the thing is, what are the chances of getting a pool of 36 Pokemon, eight of which all fit at least decently well with each other? Just think about this: Going alphabetically, the first seven Pokemon in OU have a total of 44 different movesets in the analysis pages (admittedly, Celebi was one of them). And though some of those 44 sets might have similar functions, each Pokemon has a very specific set of partner Pokemon that it works well with, and each of those partners needs a specific moveset in order to function as a partner. Again, enlarging the pool would make this process significantly easier, but that puts stress on the organizers.

Yeah, I understand the snake drafting issue, but wouldn't the last player always be disadvantaged otherwise?

Originally Posted by Fat Acritter

Allow me to elaborate on my problems with hidden-pack drafting. Since each player will only draft eight Pokemon, there is a distinct likelihood of taking a Pokemon with intent of picking up another type of Pokemon later (say, Salamence with the intent of later getting a bulky Water to absorb Ice damage) and being unable to find a Pokemon which fits the bill, either because everyone took them or the pool is simply lacking in the type needed. That is more comparable to drafting a one-drop in trying to force an aggressive deck, but never finding the offensive curve to flesh out your idea. Cube solves this problem, by giving you a much wider choice of Pokemon to fill each role, and never stymieing you for a possible solution.

If you're looking for a good place to host the draft, I would have thought the answer to be rather simple. Just use these forums, set a time for everyone to draft at and draft away in a thread dedicated to the purpose!

Wait, so are you saying that we pile all of the non-Ubers into a single, giant pool? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of this in the first place? The point of this, and of traditional MtG booster/Rochester drafts, is to work with what you have. If we throw in all of the below-Ubers Pokemon, it's just like building a team normally, and although some Pokemon will become picked, there's always another Pokemon to fill that role. In fact, it seems like if a draft with every OU, BL, and UU Pokemon in the pool were done, the first person would always pick Blissey, since she's the only definitive "best" at anything.

I do feel like I'm completely misunderstanding your interpretation of a Cube draft for this, though. Would you mind clarifying?

As for the forums as an organizational place, drafting would require rapid communication between the players in order to make picks. As such, I don't think the forums are a good place for this. A single thread for every draft would get messy, and a thread for each individual draft would clog up the forums. I opened #pokedraft for a reason (just connect through mibbit if you don't want to download mIRC).

[Twin_Scimitar]

A question about the Rochester type draft (which will probably be the first draft type):

What do people think would be a good pool size? If each person is allowed to draft a total of 8 pokemon for a 4 person 4 pool draft, each pool will go around the table twice. In order for there to be enough picks to make synergistic teams, yet at the same time make the drafting aspect of the tournament matter we were having trouble coming up with a good number for pool size. When pool sizes are too small synergistic teams are hard to come by, and when pool sizes are too large the drafting aspect doesn't really matter, and people mine as well make teams the old fashion way.

Each pool will probably have a 1:1:2 ou:lowou/bl:uu ratio, and leftover pokemon after each round will just be discarded.

ex. Pools of ten pokemon would have two pokemon that would be discarded each round (8 total discarded).

[GoldDraconian]

As I mentioned on Shoddy, I think this is a very interesting idea. My inclination is that Rochester has the best balance of enforceability, strategy, and getting done in a reasonable span of time. I assume you can even put a cap on the time players get to make a pick and guarantee that it gets done in a certain timeframe with a DraftBot of some sort? I would think some sort of bot is the easiest way to generate packs and keep track of what's what.
Twin Scimitar brings up a good point, by the way. Having the packs go around the table more than once seems like it adds depth to the draft, but you really don't want to give players too large a pool to work with. If you've got four people with packs of 10 Pokemon, every player sees 34 possible first picks (10 when you open, 9 from your neighbor, 8 from his neighbor, 7 from the last player), which seems a good number even though some of them are going to be unusable. You also see 18 total second pick options, though depending on the pack distribution it's unclear how good they're going to be on average. You draft 8 Pokemon and end up not using two of them. With five people, and packs of 12 (2*(number of players) + 2 seems like a logical number), you see 50 possible first picks and an additional 25 possible second picks. You draft 10 Pokemon and discard four. Nothing is really fixed yet so it's not terribly useful to theorymon up whether that is too few or too many, but those are the numbers for anyone trying to get a feel for things. Based really only on gut feeling, I think this implies that tables can't really get much bigger than five, but who knows.

The bidding variant is also potentially quite intriguing but also threatens to take a long time to get done, as you need to give people enough time to reasonably consider their move every time a Pokemon comes up and every time someone places a bid, and that's just asking for it to take a day and a half.

By the way, I'm not sure if dividing things up by usage is necessarily going to be the best way to do things. It's a fairly logical means of sorting guys, but you run into the problem that the top OUs really are much stronger than low OUs, and I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff in UU is actually going to be unusable crap. Compare to Magic where, at least when I played, rares were usually going to be the strongest cards, but some of them were trash, and you could get some pretty strong things at uncommon or common (Psychatog and Wild Mongrel respectively come to mind, although those are perhaps extreme examples). There's also the important difference that in draft, if you get some ridiculous bomb, you still need to draw it before you can use it to crush your opponent into paste, whereas in Pokemon, you have access to it whenever you want it to come out. Add to this that if we're drafting movesets, even a lot of the "good" UUs are going to have sets that are bad in the environment, and thus are not going to be realistic options. I'm not sure if you can get around this by any means, to be honest, and perhaps those of us who are interested in the format are going to just have to accept it as inevitable, but I'd at least like to see if I (or anyone else) can come up with a more balanced way to work it.

[Acritter]

Originally Posted by Fat The Reaver

Wait, so are you saying that we pile all of the non-Ubers into a single, giant pool? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of this in the first place? The point of this, and of traditional MtG booster/Rochester drafts, is to work with what you have. If we throw in all of the below-Ubers Pokemon, it's just like building a team normally, and although some Pokemon will become picked, there's always another Pokemon to fill that role. In fact, it seems like if a draft with every OU, BL, and UU Pokemon in the pool were done, the first person would always pick Blissey, since she's the only definitive "best" at anything.

I do feel like I'm completely misunderstanding your interpretation of a Cube draft for this, though. Would you mind clarifying?

As for the forums as an organizational place, drafting would require rapid communication between the players in order to make picks. As such, I don't think the forums are a good place for this. A single thread for every draft would get messy, and a thread for each individual draft would clog up the forums. I opened #pokedraft for a reason (just connect through mibbit if you don't want to download mIRC).

A Cube is effectively a pile of cards (or Pokemon) that are drafted out one at a time. The simplest Cube is to just use ABSOLUTELY EVARYTHING, but that can be impractical for several reasons. Making a Cube is significantly easier than making a set of balanced "packs."

[Myzozoa]

I think if you did this in large tournaments you would do it where you have groups of four that play each other round-robin style to advance or something along those lines. Or you could continue to copy from mtg and just assign people a pool of 10 or 8 pokemon to make a team from the start, and then the later rounds would be drafts

[Old Man Reaver]

Okay, so we had our first four-way draft tonight and we did it in the form of a mini-tournament. I think it's safe to say that it was a success. A huge thanks to Twin_Scimitar, reachzero, bigfoots, and yankees123 for playtesting, and congrats to reach for winning!

If anyone was curious, here were the packs:

Azelf
Flygon

Yanmega
Dusknoir
Hippowdon

Hariyama
Blastoise
Regirock
Feraligatr
Slowbro

-----

Jirachi
Dragonite

Roserade
Aerodactyl
Heracross

Chansey
Houndoom
Miltank
Torterra
Gardevoir

-----

Tyranitar
Metagross

Smeargle
Staraptor
Ninjask

Toxicroak
Claydol
Gallade
Omastar
Scyther

-----

Starmie
Blissey

Shaymin
Smeargle
Mamoswine

Milotic
Aggron
Drifblim
Alakazam
Lanturn

The top two of each pack were from the top half of OU (usage-wise), the middle three were from the bottom half of OU and BL, and the bottom five were from UU.

And additionally, here were each player's picks in the order that they were picked:

1st place--reachzero: Flygon, Slowbro, Jirachi, Roserade, Gallade, Smeargle, Mamoswine, Drifblim
2nd place--bigfoots: Yanmega, Regirock, Dragonite, Miltank, Tyranitar, Claydol, Milotic, Aggron
3rd--yankees123: Dusknoir, Feraligatr, Aerodactyl, Gardevoir, Metagross, Ninjask, Shaymin, Alakazam
4th--Twin_Scimitar: Azelf, Hippowdon, Heracross, Torterra, Staraptor, Scyther, Starmie, Blissey

Some very surprising things happened last night. Since there were no Scizors running around with Bug Bite, reach's Slowbro became an amazing tank. Additionally, the only Steel on each of the teams was bigfoots's Aggron, so the two Dragon-types in the draft were extremely powerful. Ninjask also became a lot better due to its ability to pass speed Boosts undeterred, and yankees's opponents came unprepared into the fray. The highlight was definitely yankees's Aerodactyl using Fly. Since 3 of T_S's 6 selected Pokemon were weak to Flying, that definitely went unexpected!

This following is the summary of the rules which we played by (a four-player Rochester draft):

• Four packs of 10 Pokemon each are created for the draft. Each pack will have 2 Pokemon from (roughly) the top half of OU, 3 Pokemon from (roughly) the bottom half of OU and BL, and 5 Pokemon from UU. The Pokemon are randomly generated from each of those categories.
• Each player goes around and picks one Pokemon from the pack for his/her box. Once picked, a Pokemon may not be exchanged for any other player's Pokemon or for any Pokemon still in the pack. After each player has taken two Pokemon from the pack, the remaining two Pokemon are discarded. (I'm thinking about adding in an additional passing option when its a player's turn to pick, but that would begin to overcomplicate things.) A player may pick more than one Pokemon of same species, but Species Clause will be enforced in battles, so this would normally be unwise.
• After the last pack is depleted, players must build their teams using the Pokemon they have selected from the packs. (I'm thinking of enforcing a time limit for this in the future, but we didn't do that for this draft.) A player may use any moves, items, EV spreads, IVs, and natures for their Pokemon.
• After players have built their teams, the bracket is revealed, and each player plays his or her designated opponent in a best of three set using standard ladder clauses, including Species Clause. After each game during a set, a player may edit his or her team by changing movesets, EV spreads, or even swapping in a Pokemon from his or her sideboard with a member of his or her team.
• The winner of the best of three match advances, while the loser is eliminated. (For this tournament, since we only had four people, we had the winners play each others and the losers play each other to get a 1st, 2nd, 4rd, and 4th place.)
• The Pokemon in each player's box are public information. That means that any player may ask any other player or a TO for a list of Pokemon in a particular player's box.

These rules worked so well that they most likely will be kept for future drafts. Speaking of which, at the draft last night that bigfoots and I have agreed to hold another one Sunday (December 20th) at 7:00 PM MST. PM me if you're interested, as this draft will be small and will likely not exceed eight people. This draft took approximately one and a half hours (with four people), so be ready to stay on the server for that long if you do decide to play.

[DJXO9]

Well, I participated in the most recent draft.

I love the concept, and it went fairly smoothly. The problem with it is that it is hard enough with 4 people each drafting. Maybe what could happen is an auto-draft. That would help smooth things up, but that takes away from the uniqueness of this, and makes it seem more like a Random Battle.

Another thing I would like is if the packs were tightened up, meaning it would be better pokemon being chosen. Again, this can take away a bit from point of this, but I hate having to face random threats.

Those are my two cents. Any thoughts?

[Stylish Interval]

Hey, I was wondering about a Trade turn or phase. What would that be like, and could it be implemented?

[Old Man Reaver]

Heh, we've already established a trading phase. Basically, after picks are completed and organized (before people build teams), players have a short span of time to negotiate trades (about five minutes) within their same draft pool (i.e., you can't trade with another pool). Obviously, both participants in the trade must agree to the trade, and they should tell the organizer in order to complete it.

Well guys, we've been having a LOT of fun the past few nights. reachzero won the four-way draft on Friday and kingclown50 won the four-way on Saturday (the tournament wasn't completed Sunday due to leavers). Tonight, during the eight-person tournament, reachzero and kingclown50 faced each other in the finals after three grueling rounds, and when the dust cleared, reach emerged victorious 2-0.

Tonight's tournament was a collaboration of all of the previous nights' worth of work. The trading phase was included, pack rotation was firmly established, and we've gotten more people interested in the format. We've pushed back the tournament times to 8 PM EST on most days (not tomorrow night; I have a conflict, but we're gonna do one on Wednesday) to make it more accessible for people to join as well. Just find us on Shoddy at that time.

[Acritter]

Eight, you say. Convenient time. I might go for one on Wednesday. What do you think about the (now clarified) Cube draft? If you have the get-go to continue making individual packs, then those are great, but Cubes are far easier to construct.

[TEA_DEMON]

This is pretty sweet guys, good stuff for actually getting this up and running. I'm going to have to join in on this.

[bigfoots]

Well I've played in 3 of these now, and it's a lot of fun. It forces you to use things you normally wouldn't and counter threats that would never otherwise be threats. However, I actually don't think that the trading was a good addition. I liked being forced to play with what you drafted, and not having leeway to trade your way into building exactly what you want to. I think part of the fun is trying to make what you drafted work.

As a side note, stall teams made through the draft can work, but only if you're willing to sit there PP-stalling multiple Pokemon for close to an hour (not that it wasn't a fun battle).

[Old Man Reaver]

Originally Posted by Fat Acritter

Eight, you say. Convenient time. I might go for one on Wednesday. What do you think about the (now clarified) Cube draft? If you have the get-go to continue making individual packs, then those are great, but Cubes are far easier to construct.

My peeve with Cube is that it sorta takes away from the purpose of the draft in the first place, which is to build and use teams in a shorter period of time and with limited resources. Rochester has been working fantastically for the past four tournaments, and while admittedly, the packs are a bit of a bitch to create, I'm in the process of writing a small program in order to expedite that process. I commend your idea, but I believe the small tournaments will continue to be Rochester-style (you'll like it when you play in one).

However, don't let that dishearten you. I am a supporter of democracy, and if a fair few people want to play the Cube version during a particular night, I'd be happy to oblige.

Originally Posted by Fat bigfoots

Well I've played in 3 of these now, and it's a lot of fun. It forces you to use things you normally wouldn't and counter threats that would never otherwise be threats. However, I actually don't think that the trading was a good addition. I liked being forced to play with what you drafted, and not having leeway to trade your way into building exactly what you want to. I think part of the fun is trying to make what you drafted work.

I know what you mean, and I actually favor your stance for the same reasons. I added in trading, however, because you guys wanted to try it out one night (my democratic inclination again, heh) and I thought it would be interesting. However, since I want this format to be as well-developed as possible, I'd like THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY DRAFTED to post here with their opinions on trading.

As a side note, stall teams made through the draft can work, but only if you're willing to sit there PP-stalling multiple Pokemon for close to an hour (not that it wasn't a fun battle).

(posting to say that that match literally did last for an hour)

I also have some good news and bad news. Let's start with the good first.

The good news is that PokeN3rd Pwnz0r (5 posts above me in this thread) may be hosting a draft tournament on Serebii sometime soon. From what he told me, I believe that it will be larger in scale in comparison to the nightly ones we've been having here. Hopefully, I can get some feedback on how the tournament went. If so, a draft tournament larger in scale than our nightly ones will get going. ;)

The bad news is that something came up today and I will NOT be able to host the Wednesday night tournament. I've sent Twin_Scimitar, who has been of great help during the past couple of tourneys, a PM asking if he would like to organize it, but if anyone else would like to help host, send me a PM and we'll figure something out. I'm truly sorry about this, and I was looking forward to actually playing tomorrow night, but I'm inclined to believe that the tournament will happen anyway if we can get the necessary organization going.

I'm also going to get off my ass and revamp the first post soon.

Once again, I'm really sorry about not being able to host the tournament tomorrow, but again, hopefully people will host it anyway. Tell me how it went if you participate!

(Watch this space. I will edit in a confirmation if someone agrees to host.)

[DJXO9]

Originally Posted by Fat The Reaver

I'd like THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY DRAFTED to post here with their opinions on trading.

The thing I've noticed is that there are only ever one or two trades, barely worth it. In both of my drafts, I was only involved with one trade, and It didn't really have much of an affect on the outcome. It doesn't really take that long, so I don't care that much about it. If it were longer, I would really be against it.

I could see why it would be useful, and most people who don't trade just use that time to start building there team anyways, so whatever. I don't have that much of an opinion.

Originally Posted by Fat The Reaver

(posting to say that that match literally did last for an hour)

Yeah, it did. I had already finished my match, and was watching this one for about .5 hours, thinking it was the 3rd match. After about twenty minutes, i realized it was the 2nd. We ended up not having a true finals anyways that night.


I would be willing to host tonight Reaver. I'lll talk to you on IRC sometime today. This isn't official yet for those reading it...

[DJXO9]

Sorry for the double post, but to make sure everybody sees this,

There will be a Draft tonight, and I will be hosting it.

I'll be on the Smogon Server at 7:30 EST, with it starting at 8:00 EST.

Also 200 posts! I think this is a pretty good way to do that.

[rayquazamaster776]

Originally Posted by Fat DJXO9

Sorry for the double post, but to make sure everybody sees this,

There will be a Draft tonight, and I will be hosting it.

I'll be on the Smogon Server at 7:30 EST, with it starting at 8:00 EST.

Also 200 posts! I think this is a pretty good way to do that.

I'll try to be there.

[Stylish Interval]

Originally Posted by Fat DJXO9

Sorry for the double post, but to make sure everybody sees this,

There will be a Draft tonight, and I will be hosting it.

I'll be on the Smogon Server at 7:30 EST, with it starting at 8:00 EST.

Also 200 posts! I think this is a pretty good way to do that.

I'll try to be there as well. Do you have any advice for a newcomer? (This goes to anyone who has played, not just DJXO9.)