(Gen 2) As promised, thisisBob. Think of it as my guide part 2 (long)

[Charlie Brown]

http://www.oocities.com/thelegendary.../downloads.htm

The RMT program is definitely awesome. Albeit, the "effectiveness" tab is the only thing that's truly imperative, the rest of the program makes you think twice about your team. I'm in the process of asking the publisher for the source and I might update it a bit with better logic and improved numerical ratings. Maybe. Need permission though.

For the sake of flaunting, here's what my team scored (ratings seem to be similarly GPA based?):

Synergy: 14.94 D+

Avg Base stats:
Health - 3.18 B+
Attack - 3.05 B+
Defense - 3.30 A-
S Atk - 2.12 C
S Def - 3.18 B+
Speed - 2.43 B-

Type Weak: 3.35 A-

Moves:
Off - 12 C+
Def - 2 F+
Healing - 7 A+
Msc - 3 C

Envir Ctrl: F-

Issues: 22

Overall 2.03 C

[Newby]

This was a good read. ^_^

[Nitro.]

Good read for sure.

[Borat]

Updated 2nd and 3rd post on Pokemon review. I still need a rant on Explosion teams (3, 4, 5, even 6 exploders on a team) and how they seem to usurp skill in favor of reckless play, and actually reward players for doing so.

Just a reminder, this battle is pathetic in terms of execution and teams. But the mindset is all there, and it was long enough to show a good part of what's "suppose" to go on in your head. And it's two pretty big-name players.

I have too much free time. Fuck the rain.

[Xav]

Jesus that was long. Sure was enjoyable though, thanks for putting the effort into this. Also what happened to turn 28?

[Borat]

He surfed, I switched, pretty straight forward.

[RaikouLover]

I just read all your GSC posts Borat. Wow. You have made me want to play GSC competitively. Amazing.

[Donny Mae.]

<3

[Borat]

Updated Raikou and Celebi bits.

Updating part 3 on how to play stalls (not "against", but "with") later this week. Or month.

Or never.

[shadowkid17]

for those of you who may or may not be interested... I cannot use NB supremacy anymore , so I am now wifi battling all three all generations if you are or are not interested.. It'd be amazing to battle you VIL. I also use XD and colloseum to wifi

[johnnyg2]

Hello Borat, when i first read it i thought it was going to be a not-very-informative rant... It sees that I was wrong. I don't have very much experience with GSC, which I why I would like to ask you a few questions based on the what I have read
Why do you have both BD and Curse on Lax. It seems to me that would be inefficient and would leave completely walled by ghosts. Also what is the viability of Celebi? The on-sight guide says nothing about whether it is usable in OU and I have read some guides that say it is allowed and some that don't. And finally it seems as if on some of your teams, you have pokes that seem to have similar roles. An example of this would be having Miltank and Lax on the same team. Do you really think it necessary to have two of the same type and same basic functions just for Heal Bell? As I said I'm not very experienced but would like to know.

[Jorgen]

Originally Posted by Fat johnnyg2

Hello Borat, when i first read it i thought it was going to be a not-very-informative rant... It sees that I was wrong. I don't have very much experience with GSC, which I why I would like to ask you a few questions based on the what I have read
Why do you have both BD and Curse on Lax. It seems to me that would be inefficient and would leave completely walled by ghosts. Also what is the viability of Celebi? The on-sight guide says nothing about whether it is usable in OU and I have read some guides that say it is allowed and some that don't. And finally it seems as if on some of your teams, you have pokes that seem to have similar roles. An example of this would be having Miltank and Lax on the same team. Do you really think it necessary to have two of the same type and same basic functions just for Heal Bell? As I said I'm not very experienced but would like to know.

I'm not Borat, but I can give my Borat-influenced take on some of this.

BD and Curse on lax lets you force unfavorable matchups by surprise in the early game (notice when Borat has to sac Raikou after what he thought was Curselax used Belly Drum), and can provide defensive boosts so stuff like skarm doesn't do something as silly as KO'ing you with drill peck. It is walled by ghosts, but Ttar can be used with it to pick off the specters (though you don't necessarily need Ttar with a Snorlax that can't hit ghosts if you have other forms of offense; this was written at a time when the meta was more defensive, and most teams relied almost entirely on Snorlax for any sort of offense).

Celebi is still banned from OU, but as far as viability, I'd guess its defensive versatility might make stall more powerful and heal belling more viable (right now, heal bell's popularity is waning because teams that use it often rely too much on it, and Miltank/Blissey are otherwise mediocre pokemon.)

Snorlax and Miltank don't have similar roles. Snorlax is an offensive behemoth who also won't die unless you blow up on it or manage to set something up (or if they drum too recklessly), whereas Miltank is a beller, and not much else. Doubling up on a type isn't the end of the world; it's better to think of stuff in terms of what they beat than in terms of what type they are.

[Borat]

This was more or less a 2007 team which has just seen a few "experimental" changes, mainly Starmie -> Suicune. Drumlax and Marowak were arguably the two most effective offenses against stalls, which was the most prevalent type of team in existence at the time. Drumlax doesn't do too well against offensive teams (unless it's with Jolteon backing), since it becomes a one hit wonder. Marowak is still okay, as long as you're not running Rest. Cursedrum still works pretty decently against offensive teams, since curselax is definitely one of the best against them.

Regarding Celebi, I thought I had just updated it?

It has the stats, it doesn’t have the movepool. Think of it as Suicune with Recover and Heal Bell, but without Roar. Well that doesn’t make much sense, but that’s how I see it. It’s annoying sure, hard as hell to kill, but what isn’t? To put forth blatantly: it doesn’t pose much of a threat to any team. It’s just there… always… there.

With that said, Celebi is unhealthy metagaming in its truest form. However, if there's ever one pokemon where just being defensive makes it overpowered, it's celebi (and lugia/mewtwo, but that's beside the point). You can't possibly tell me you have fun playing with it/against it. It's just +100 unnecessary turns, as well as upsetting the current offense vs defense seesaw, which is the closest it's ever been. Shit like Marowak is being used outside of Jolteon teams is "new" (2006-2007; not new to you guys, but to us), Machamp threatening ever team legitmately (as opposed to the pre-2008 of just hitting everything hard, but koing nothing), and Exeggutor rocking up OU the way it's meant to. Blissey and Skarmory has become as unreliable as ever, and Miltank has taken a pretty harsh hit as well. Bellers are becoming the crutch they're meant to be. Celebi needn't come back. And no, "just use HP Bug" isn't a viable counterargument. HP Bug Steelix/Espeon/whatever is far outside the reasonable norm to countering something and arguing it's viability.

Bottomline: It's not uber by way of power, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be unbanned.

Conclusion: it's viable, but it's banned. The same way Mewtwo/Mew/Lugia are "viable but banned".

Also this is just part 2, a very old part 2 at that.

[Pocket]

I thoroughly enjoyed re-reading this updated thread, Borat! I am always very grateful for the energy and wealth of insight you bring back to Gen 2.

What made you change your attitude towards Exeggutor? Is it for its ability to reliably explode on things? I mean EQ / Cross Chop / Surf resistances are great, and it has great bulk to switch on to Snorlax and Leech Seed / Powder / threaten to explode on it. Of course its Special Attack is legendary status. The main fault is his lack of decent special moves, I am guessing, not giving him perfect coverage. Good thing Houndoom is uncommon.

It also seems like your attitude towards Machamp has take a positive turn as well. Not really, since many of the offensive teams that you have shown me included this mon, so I am kind of surprised that you included him in the "not-your-type" of Pokemon. I kind of agree with your original sentiments, though. It is rather hard to switch Machamp in to the play-field and even if you bring it in, it has to deal with Starmie / Slowbro / Exeggutor. Maybe I have been playing Machamp wrong. Curse + 3 Attacks is good, but I think I favor the Curse RestTalker set for giving it the durability to actually set up Curse. The RestTalker set could never get pass Starmie / Slowbro / Exeggutor with Psychic, but at least it would live long enough to harass Snorlax around.

Also, I believe Victreebel is a monster worth a mention. It's similar in playstyle as Druidcruel, but has some neat perks, such as not being EQ and Tbolt weak, being able to set up on Electrics without an Ice / Fire / or Flying moves, having access to Sleep Powder / Stun Spore, and having a much higher base Atk Stat than Tentacruel. Of course the downside is not being as fast as Druidcruel, being weak to Ice Beam, and especially not hitting Steels for good damage, but that could be played around.

[Borat]

Exeggutor is probably one of 4 pokemon in the game that's legitimately both offensive and defensive. Other 3 being Snorlax, Raikou, and Zapdos. That lends to its tremendous flexibility, and the movepool, while slightly lacking, is more than enough to threaten anything it wants to threaten.

I'm thinking several things should consider running a curse+3 attack set. Machamp (poisons are hard walls), Tyranitar (depends on set), and Heracross (skarm is a hardwall) are notable ones.

But I don't consider Druidcruel a huge threat at all. It lives in the past, and hasn't really done anything for almost a full decade since Starmie and Raikou started showing their face. And there's still Roar Suicunes to worry about. However, in the right matchup, it does shine (against Vaps? the 3 curse machamp?). I'm not sure where I ranked it, but it shouldn't be that far from Muk.

I'll end up making one more team (variation) before it all ends and I get overwhelmed by graduate classes/life stuff.