The CAP Threat Descriptions (Workshop)

[Plus]

Originally Posted by Fat Stalfos

Type: Ice/Bug
Abilities: Mountaineer, Compound Eyes
Base Stats: 70 HP / 116 Atk / 70 Def / 114 SpA / 65 SpD / 115 Spe
Rating: *

(Note that the stats above are the pre-2nd-revision stats)

When Syclant was first created it was an absolute powerhouse, with moves that included, but weren't limited to, Ice Beam, Tail Glow, Bug Buzz, Earth Power, Focus Blast and Blizzard in the early days when Compound Eyes was viable, and several other moves at its disposal. Despite being x4 weak to Rock, it could even enter the fray while Stealth Rock was down on the opponent's side of the field thanks to Mountaineer. But when the CAP community first revised Syclant, it all went downhill from there. Scizor resists both STABs and quickly disposes of it with a Bullet Punch. Heatran's in the same boat, except it can hit Syclant where it hurts most. Blissey and Snorlax can also be used against most Syclant, since you see more Special ones than Physical, and so can Arghonaut as its Unaware ability stops Syclant from getting any ideas. Because of the variety of Pokemon that can take down Syclant and the downfall created by the so-called "revision", it's best avoided if you're new to battling in the CAP metagame, but if you do decide to use it, stick to its strengths.

^Is this short enough now?

This isn't a history lesson on Syclant, it's about how Syclant does in the metagame. It's also not a paragraph meant for persuading the person to use it. The purpose of the paragraph is to inform the reader of how big of a threat Syclant is. You cut down on the paragraph, yes, but it's incoherent and lacking a bit of the main point. Elaborate a bit more on how it fares in the metagame and take out all the crap pertaining to Syclant's history, the revisions, or the "if you should use it" stuff. =/

The only meaningful sentence I found in that whole paragraph was

Scizor resists both STABs and quickly disposes of it with a Bullet Punch. Heatran's in the same boat, except it can hit Syclant where it hurts most. Blissey and Snorlax can also be used against most Syclant, since you see more Special ones than Physical, and so can Arghonaut as its Unaware ability stops Syclant from getting any ideas.

. Imagine if a person was facing Syclant and didn't know what to do. You start talking about its history, give one hopefully common sense counter or check, and then you talk about if you should use it or not. That is barely helpful.

[Korski]

I guess I'll give this a shot. I'll try and do more if there are any available.


Gliscor (offense)

Type: Ground / Flying
Abilities: Sand Veil / Hyper Cutter
Base Stats: 75 HP / 95 Atk / 125 Def / 45 SpA / 75 SpD / 95 Spe
Rating: **

Gliscor has two important moves that can turn it into a real threat: Swords Dance and Rock Polish/Agility. Gliscor has the physical bulk to set up multiple boosts and abuse them with STAB Earthquake, Stone Edge, and/or Ice Fang, all the while having access to Roost to brush off hits and Life Orb recoil. Unfortunately for Gliscor, 4 move slot syndrome means it can't do all these things at once, so more than likely it'll be boosting only one stat and running two attacks with Roost. Fast special attackers, Starmie, Syclant, Latias, and Fidgit can force out SD Gliscor (although Fidgit must be wary of switching into Earthquake and Syclant fears Stone Edge) and RP/Agility Gliscor lacks the power to sweep on its own. Additionally, Arghonaut is probably the easiest switch-in to offensive Gliscor possible and will always beat it one-on-one.

[HD]

Suicune

Type: Water
Abilities: Pressure
Base Stats: 100 HP / 75 Atk / 115 Def / 90 SpA / 115 SpD / 85 Spe
Rating: **

Suicune, as a defensive water type, is generally outclassed by Arghonaut and Vaporeon in the CaP metagame. Suicune itself has better overall defenses (100 HP / 115 Def / 115 SpDef) compared to Arghonaut’s 105 HP / 95 Def / 100 SpDef and Vaporeon’s 130 HP / 60 Def / 95 SpDef, but he isn’t used as much because: a) Arghonaut has Unaware, preventing Pokemon who would normally set-up on Suicune (ones without HP Electric are Dragon Dance Gyarados fodder and ones without Ice Beam are Dragon Dance Salamence fodder) to set-up on him and b) Suicune’s only recovery comes in the form of Rest, which allows aforementioned Pokemon to set-up on him. Also, most Defensive Suicune run Calm Mind to boost there already spectacular Special Defense, but sadly Arghonaut stops setting-up short. Some Suicune run Roar, and with Suicune’s overall better Defenses he can easily shuffle the opponent’s team. Suicune has the ability to wall both sides of the offensive spectrum at the same time. In fact, Suicune could wall Colossoil (without Selfdestruct), Infernape, Kitsunoh, Scizor, Kingdra, and others.

Suicune

Type: Water
Ability: Pressure
Base Stats: 100 HP / 75 Atk / 115 Def / 90 SpA / 115 SpD / 85 Spe
Rating: **

Suicune is the definition of bulky offense – 90 base Special Attack and 85 base Speed coupled with those fantastic defenses allows him to be a great pivot point for offensive teams and special sweeper. Most people run either a Life Orb set consisting of Calm Mind, Surf, Ice Beam and Hidden Power Electric or a more defensive set running Leftovers and Substitute, Calm Mind, Surf and Ice Beam/Hidden Power Electric. Both sets wreak havoc on unsuspecting teams, getting perfect neutral coverage with the first set and nearly perfect neutral coverage on the second. Suicune likes Light Screen and Reflect up to boost his already spectacular defenses and let him set-up much easier. Generally, Suicune without Hidden Power Electric run into problems with Argonaut, who not only resists Suicune’s moves but negates his Calm Mind boosts, Gyarados, who loves to set-up on resisted Surfs and neutral Ice Beams while setting-up himself and firing off powerful Stone Edges, Bounces and Earthquakes; and Vaporeon, who could attack with a Hidden Power Electric of her own, stall out Suicune with Wish and Protect, Roar away Suicune’s Calm Minds or Toxic the Suicune who don’t run Substitute. Likewise, ones without Ice Beam face trouble with Dragon- and Grass-types.

offensive up, going to gengar

[Zystral]

Zapdos

Type: Electric / Flying
Ability: Pressure
Base Stats: 90 HP / 90 Atk / 85 Def / 125 SpA / 90 SpD / 100 Spe
Rating: **

Zapdos has many traits which are similar to those of a sweeper: great Special Attack, good Speed and a wide movepool. STAB Thunderbolt backed by Zapdos' naturally high Special Attack will be doing considerable damage, outdamaging even Gyarados' Waterfall. Zapdos can then be more of a threat with Metal Sound, forcing the foe to either switch (and potentially rack up residual damage), or face one of Zapdos' attacks at double damage. Zapdos can also abuse Agility for itself, or even Baton Pass it onto its team-mates, making more of a potent threat. Zapdos' sweeping ability is hindered, however, as its main STAB attack is resisted by some common Pokémon in CAP, and having a 2x Stealth Rock weakness does not help it switching in and out, especially as some offensive sets may lack Roost.

wanted to add stuff about how lowered bulk for more power will affect its ability to take hits but not sure if that makes it too long.

I'll do Offensive Togekiss as well.

oh hey update.

Togekiss

Type: Normal / Flying
Abilities: Serene Grace / Hustle
Base Stats: 85 HP / 50 Atk / 95 Def / 120 SpA / 115 SpD / 80 Spe
Rating: ****

The number one thing to watch out for with Togekiss is Air Slash. 75 Base Power, backed by STAB and a high Special Attack is definitely something to fear. Bolstered further by the 60% flinch rate thanks to Serene Grace and Togekiss will have you ripping your hair out. Not even its mediocre 80 Speed can hold it back as Togekiss can also use Thunder Wave or Body Slam to paralyze you and start flinching you to death. But there's no kill like overkill; Togekiss has access to Nasty Plot, making its wide array of attacks (which include but is not limited to: Fire Blast, Aura Sphere, Tri-Attack, Shadow Ball, Air Slash and Grass Knot) even more powerful, especially since the likes of Shadow Ball and Tri-Attack also have side effects of their own. Togekiss' insanity does not stop there, however. Equip a Choice Scarf and Togekiss doesn't even need set-up to flinch everything into oblivion while also being able to cripple your Blissey with Trick. Making that Choice Specs will put nuclear warheads to shame. And we're still not done. Drop Serene Grace for Hustle and suddenly Togekiss' 50 Base Attack becomes useable, especially with a Life Orb boosting STAB ExtremeSpeed and Aerial Ace. Togekiss is easily shut down however, simple priority, paralysis resistance or Blissey can stop most Togekiss dead.

Nobody reserved it so I went ahead and did Kingdra anyway.

Kingdra

Type: Water / Dragon
Abilities: Swift Swim / Sniper
Base Stats: 75 HP / 95 Atk / 95 Def / 95 SpA / 95 SpD / 85 Spe
Rating: *****

Kingdra is an immensely dangerous threat for a plethora of reasons: it has decent Attacking stats on both sides of the spectrum, it has amazing coverage with STABs alone, Swift Swim cures its less-than-great Speed while boosting one of its STABs and it is almost impossible to out-predict, simply because it can run so many different sets. If it holds Rain Dance, you don't know whether to bring in Blissey or Skarmory. If it uses Dragon Dance, there's still a chance Draco Meteor will kill you. Kingdra is so dangerous, even without set-up, not even the likes of Arghonaut or Revenankh can reliably stop it. Even Tyranitar, who removes rain and gets a Special Defence boost in the Sand, fears switching into Waterfall. Kingdra needs little-to-no support to blow everything to smithereens and is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

[Fuzznip]

Ok, I have some problems... Don't take this the wrong way, Admiral Stalfos19 and ZystraL, but I'm really not liking your submissions for the Threat list so far. It's not really what I'm looking for, both grammar- and description-wise.

Admiral, I'll go through your Magnezone entry.

The bane of any Steel-types that pack neither a Shed Shell, U-Turn nor a super effective move.

This statement is slightly pointless. Almost every common Steel-type in OU will carry a super effective move against Magnezone. Bronzong, Kitsunoh, and Metagross have Earthquake, Lucario has Close Combat, Heatran has Fire Blast, Jirachi has Fire Punch, Scizor has Superpower, etc. Some of those carry U-turn (U-turn > U-Turn) as well to escape Magnet Pull.

Magnezone carries a variety of attacks to keep itself alive while waiting for a Steel-type guy to come out of hiding, including Thunder Bolt, Thunder in the case that it's on a Rain Dance team, Hidden Power (coming in either Fire, Grass or Ice), Flash Cannon, Discharge and even Explosion in some cases, and carries a high Special Attack score to back them up.

You do realize that the above paragraph is an entire sentence? There is literally no stops, only commas. When you say that "Magnezone carries a variety of attacks to keep itself alive...", that's not true. Those moves don't keep it alive, they help it sweep. There are a lot of grammatical mistakes (missing commas/colons/semicolons/etc) and spelling errors (Thunderbolt > Thunder Bolt) that need to be fixed.

Magnezone can even carry Magnet Rise to dodge Earthquakes from the likes of Forretress, Bronzong and Metagross... if it can outspeed it, which is hard because Metagross is not only normally faster than Magnezone, but it also can pump a decent amount of EVs into Speed, and will if it decides to use Agility.

I don't know why you went with the "..." after Metagross and you suddenly brought up "if it can outspeed it". Who exactly is the first it and the second it? You then explain that Metagross is normally faster than Magnezone, but it can also pump up more EVs into its Speed. Why exactly would Metagross do that if it already outpaces Magnezone? Also, you don't need the italicized "can".

Magnezone is also a fine choice to dispose of enemy Jirachi if one is sure that it doesn't carry Fire Punch, because it is hard to flinchax to death since it x4 resists it's Iron Head.

Be careful with your "it"s. I have no idea who you are referring to when you say "it", you said that like, 5 times throughout that sentence. Also, "it's" = "it is", so you are essentially saying this:

"...because it is hard to flinchax to death since it x4 resists it is Iron Head."

That's obviously incorrect.

However, Lucario and Heatran are the only Steel-types that don't mind being trapped by Magnet Pull, and if you take a look at their other types and movepools, there's a pretty good reason for that

Lucario fears Choice Scarf Magnezone obviously, so it does mind Magnezone. Choice Scarf Magnezone is probably the most common variant anyway. I'll give you Heatran. What do you mean by "other types"? They don't have any other types. Also, you're missing a period at the end of the last sentence.

ZystraL, I'll go through your Kingdra entry.

Kingdra is an immensely dangerous threat for a plethora of reasons: it has decent Attacking stats on both sides of the spectrum, it has amazing coverage with STABs alone, Swift Swim cures its less-than-great Speed while boosting one of its STABs and it is almost impossible to out-predict, simply because it can run so many different sets.

"Attacking" should not be capitalized, you aren't referring to Kingdra's specific offensive stats (Attack/Special Attack). What STABs does Kingdra have? You should bring up that Water- and Dragon-type moves provide perfect coverage, only resisted by Empoleon. Kingdra is not impossible to outpredict. Every Kingdra will either be a Dragon Dancer, mixed sweeper, or a standard special sweper. Those can be stopped.

If it holds Rain Dance, you don't know whether to bring in Blissey or Skarmory.

I'd bring in Blissey...

If it uses Dragon Dance, there's still a chance Draco Meteor will kill you.

Uhh... kill what? Why would it have a chance to kill something when I don't even know what it is?

Kingdra is so dangerous, even without set-up, not even the likes of Arghonaut or Revenankh can reliably stop it.

I'd say they can pretty well. I mean, Argho has Recover to recover off Draco Meteor/Outrage and stall out rain. Rev can just use Hammer Arm + Shadow Sneak to end you. It could survive a Hydro Pump or Outrage.

Even Tyranitar, who removes rain and gets a Special Defence boost in the Sand, fears switching into Waterfall.

Sand should not be capitalized. The point of Tyranitar switching into Kingdra is to stop the rain.

Kingdra needs little-to-no support to blow everything to smithereens and is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

No, it can't blow everything to smithereens. It really isn't that invincible.


Ok, so I went through one of each of your submissions and explained the problems. You need to proofread your work multiple times, fix every correction, read it out loud, etc. I honestly hate it when I have to go about fixing stuff like this; it's time-consuming. Also, I suggest you take a look at this thread, it shows you how to use Pokemon terminology correctly. I really appreciate you guys helping me out with this, but I honestly can't stand it when I have to fix entire descriptions. Don't ever be afraid to ask me or anyone on #cap for assistance, we will help you out.

Please don't take this the wrong way. Thanks.

[KnightoftheWind]

I'd like to do Infernape and Gengar if you don't mind.

EDIT:

Infernape

Type: Fire / Fighting
Ability: Blaze
Base Stats: 76 HP / 104 Atk / 71 Def / 104 SpA / 71 SpD / 108 Spd
Rating: ****

Infernape has a large offensive movepoll and good stats to utilize it. Infernape can hit specially with Fire Blast, Hidden Power Ice, Grass Knot and Vacuum Wave, or physically with Close Combat, Fire Punch, U-turn, Stone Edge and Mach Punch. Infernape is most often seen as a mixed sweeper with Life Orb, in order to cause trouble for stall teams. Infernape is capable of being an effective boosting sweeper as well, having access to both Nasty Plot and Swords Dance. It can even work as a suicide lead, using both Fake Out and Stealth Rock. This is all made better by the fact that some of its usual counters such as Latias and Tentacruel are less effective in the CAP metagame, being countered by Colossoil and outclassed by Fidgit respectively. Infernape does have a few problematic foes though. Latias and Starmie resist Infernape's STAB moves, and can outspeed and OHKO with Surf, though they must watch out for U-turn. Vaporeon resists Fire, can take a Close Combat, takes little damage from Grass Knot and can heal itself with Wish.

Ok, so I cut out most of the filler that wasn't really necessary. Hope this is better than the last one. I'll post Gengar tomorrow.

[Umbreon Dan]

well, i promised i'd write ten analyses if fuzznip grew some balls, and while i wouldn't say he was particularly harsh (maybe he grew one ball) i do plan to stick by that. here are the five i reserved. add mamoswine, both pyroaks and... oh, there don't seem to be many left :(

edit: on second thought, it really makes no sense to write pyroak until we've tested the revised version, since it's going to completely change... i guess mamoswine is the only mon i'm doing unless somebody wants to give up theirs!

Starmie

Type: Water/Psychic
Abilities: Natural Cure/Illuminate
Base Stats: 60 HP / 75 Atk / 85 Def / 100 SpA / 85 SpD / 115 Spe
Rating: ***

Starmie makes a good defensive Pokemon for two reasons: Water is excellent typing defensively (Psychic less so) and its 115 Base Speed, giving Starmie one of the fastest Recovers in the metagame. While Starmie will never wall entire teams, it excels at forcing out various offensive threats, like Infernape, Gyarados, and Gliscor. On top of this, Starmie is an excellent Rapid Spinner; Natural Cure means Starmie rarely fears Toxic Spikes. Revenankh is the ideal counter, as his Ghost typing prevents Rapid Spin and his high Special Defense allows him to take Surfs almost indefinitely. Starmie's biggest flaw is its weakness to Dark moves; most notably Pursuit.

Gliscor

Type: Ground/Flying
Abilities: Sand Veil/Hyper Cutter
Base Stats: 75 HP / 95 Atk / 125 Def / 45 SpA / 75 SpD / 95 Spe
Rating: ***

Gliscor's unique typing and excellent Defense stat make it a very reliable physical wall. Combine this with Roost and a respectable support movepool including Stealth Rock, Taunt, and Knock Off, and Gliscor is sure to see frequent use. Most run enough Speed to outrun even Jolly Lucario, so Gliscor will often be able to use Roost before his opponent is allowed to attack. Gliscor is also a staple on Baton Pass teams, as he is one of very few Pokemon who ha access to Taunt and multiple stat boosting moves like Swords Dance and Agility. Gliscor has difficulty taking special attacks, which is worsened by his weaknesses to many common special attacks like Surf and Ice Beam. Note that Sand Veil is often used on defensive Gliscor, so your moves will be only 80% as accurate in a sandstorm as they would be otherwise.

Latias

Type: Dragon/Psychic
Ability: Levitate
Base Stats: 80 HP / 80 Atk / 90 Def / 110 SpA / 130 SpD / 110 Spe
Rating: ***

Latias has a massive Special Defense stat, and while her typing isn't perfect defensively, it is very interesting and it often comes in handy; Latias is one of the very best counters to Infernape and Zapdos, for example. Her very high Speed and access to Recover and Refresh make it difficult for the opponent to permanently dent Latias, as well. Probably her most threatening aspect as a defensive Pokemon is her ability to support her team; Latias has a wide support movepool, starring Wish, Reflect, and Roar. Latias's only real flaw is her weaknesses to Dragon, Ice and Dark, the latter of which means Pursuit is often a problem for Latias.

Jolteon

Type: Electric
Ability: Volt Absorb
Base Stats: 65 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 110 SpA / 95 SpD / 130 Spe
Rating: ***

Jolteon has a top-tier Speed stat and excellent Special Attack, which, when boosted by Life Orb or Choice Specs, makes Jolteon a serious threat. STAB Thunderbolt hits very hard and is Jolteon's primary attack. As threatening as Jolteon is, his movepool is very small and predictable: his other moves are generally limited to Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, and Hidden Power Ice or Grass. Some Jolteon will use Charge Beam to boost their Special Attack and Baton Pass to escape from danger and to scout. If you have Blissey, or to a lesser extent, Snorlax, Jolteon should be easily manageable. Jolteon can also be checked by Ground types with Priority or a Choice Scarf, like Colossoil, Mamoswine and Flygon. If Jolteon is a problem for your team, keep in mind that it has a hard time switching into any attack that isn't Electric-typed.

Jirachi

Type: Steel/Psychic
Ability: Serene Grace
Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Rating: ****

Jirachi has solid defensive stats and typing, and his support movepool is perfect to accommodate that. Jirachi can support his team as a lead with Trick, Stealth Rock and U-turn, or can pass Wish later on in the match. He is also very adept at spreading paralysis, either with Thunder Wave or Body Slam, which has a 60% paralysis chance with Serene Grace. Jirachi is also one of the very best Rain Dance supporters, and is also a great choice if you need Light Screen and Reflect. Jirachi is best dealt with by using powerful Ground- and Fire-typed attacks like Earthquake. Alternately, Magnezone can swiftly finish off any Jirachi without U-turn. In general, try to dispose of Jirachi quickly; many more offensive teams tend to fall apart after their Wish passer goes down.

Mamoswine

Type: Ice/Ground
Abilities: Oblivious/Snow Cloak
Base Stats: 110 HP / 130 Atk / 80 Def / 70 SpA / 60 SpD / 80 Spe
Rating: ****

Mamoswine ranks among the very most powerful Pokemon in the metagame. STAB Earthquake from 130 Base Attack is absolutely devastating to anything that doesn't resist or take no damage from Ground moves. This power is even more exaggerated Mamoswine holds a Life Orb or a Choice Band, which is nearly always does. Mamoswine also runs Ice Shard, helping it deal with its mediocre Speed and allowing Mamoswine to check threats like Salamence and Gliscor. Stone Edge and Superpower typically round off Mamoswine's moveset (fortunately, Mamoswine hasn't got a ton of options). To make matters worse, Mamoswine is reasonably bulky, and is sometimes seen with Stealth Rock as a lead. Bronzong and Skarmory are generally hailed as the only real counters to Mamoswine, but Pokemon that can hit first and resist Ice make good checks to it, like Starmie, Scizor and fast Suicune.

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

Ok, so I went through one of each of your submissions and explained the problems. You need to proofread your work multiple times, fix every correction, read it out loud, etc.

Actually, I usually do take the time to read through what I write and stuff like that. It's just that I hadn't had the time to look at it properly because of all the homework that my teachers keep dishing out to me. But I'll keep that in mind anyway

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

You do realize that the above paragraph is an entire sentence? There is literally no stops, only commas.

Yeah, this is why I hate writing long sentences, and prefer to keep them short. But the best I can do grammar-wise is this I'm afraid:

Magnezone carries a variety of attacks to keep itself alive while waiting for a Steel-type guy to come out of hiding. This includes Thunder Bolt, Thunder in the case that it's on a Rain Dance team, Hidden Power (coming in either Fire, Grass or Ice), Flash Cannon, Discharge and even Explosion in some cases. And it carries a high Special Attack score to back them up.

Plus all the other changes you mentioned. But Thunderbolt just looks so wrong :(

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

I don't know why you went with the "..." after Metagross and you suddenly brought up "if it can outspeed it".

That was purely there for effect. Oh, and Magnezone's the first "it" and Metagross's the second "it". Maybe I should change it to them, eh?

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

You then explain that Metagross is normally faster than Magnezone, but it can also pump up more EVs into its Speed. Why exactly would Metagross do that if it already outpaces Magnezone?

So then it can outspeed other threats when it gets an Agility down. Perhaps if I say "not only does Meta normally outpace Magny, but it also DOES pump a decent amount of EVs into Speed", would that be better?

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

I have no idea who you are referring to when you say "it", you said that like, 5 times throughout that sentence.

No I didn't. I've just read the sentence in question and I only see 4 :P

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

Lucario fears Choice Scarf Magnezone obviously, so it does mind Magnezone.

... if either Luke's been weakened, by entry hazards or otherwise, or Magny carries Thunder AND has a +SpA boosting nature and decent investment. Trust me, I've done the calcs. Besides, why would Lucario fear something it can take down in one shot? WITHOUT an SD boost?

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

What do you mean by "other types"? They don't have any other types.

Um... if that were true, then how do Luke and Tran get STABs in Close Combat and Fire Blast respectively?

Nintendo really needs something better than types ¬_¬

Originally Posted by Fat Fuzznip

Also, you're missing a period at the end of the last sentence.

I know. That was semi-intentional, as at times, I'm just too lazy to ever put the full stop at the end of the final sentence. I always get away with it though :) But if you want me to kick the habit, then say so

[Plus]

Syclant

Syclant is a decent addition to any team, whether he be used to revenge kill threatening Dragons such as Dragon Dance Salamence, as a lead or as a designated sweeper. He can attack from either side of the spectrum just fine, but you'll see Syclant attacking from the special side more often than the physical because not only does he have stronger special STABs, but he also has Tail Glow to improve their power even further. Even worse, one Tail Glow is easy enough for Syclant to throw down, because despite being x4 weak to Rock, he can come in after another Pokemon has been KOed, even while Stealth Rock is down on the opponent's side of the field, and force the enemy to retreat. However, there are a handful of Pokemon you can switch to if you see one. For example, Scizor can destroy Syclant with a Bullet Punch, and Heatran can outpace him with a Choice Scarf, which he likes to carry, and burn him to a crisp. Arghonaut has the ability to negate Syclant's Tail Glow and can easily handle his other attacks, so he's the perfect Pokemon to switch to when in doubt. As stated above, Syclant more often uses special attacks than physical, so Blissey and Snorlax can absorb an attack and KO with Flamethrower and Fire Punch respectively

Syclant

Syclant is one of those Pokemon that are extremely hard and frustrating to use, as its extremely poor defenses and terrible defensive typing that bears two 4x weaknesses make it a risky sweeper. It’s also extremely hard to pull off a Tail Glow boost, as one move can potentially end Syclant’s life, and it needs a massive amount of support to become threatening. With the addition of Bullet Punch to Scizor’s movepool, Syclant has definitely lost its viability greatly as well. Despite these problems, Syclant can definitely become a huge threat if you are capable of keeping Syclant in good condition and have the necessary support Syclant needs to sweep.

If you were to approach me with this "threat paragraph", I'd pretty much call it the Opinion section of the Analysis. Take a good fucking look at this and you'll see that the main stuff from these paragraphs, even Magnezone and Tyranitar share exactly this. I don't think you understood one bit as to what I was saying, because frankly this is little to none an improvement, and it's a shame because you're one of the only people who are throwing out these so called "threat paragraphs". Why don't I whip out a CAP history book? Is the fact that Tyranitar's usage is plummeting due to Colossoil relevant to Tyranitar threatening anything in any fucking way? Perhaps this is what Fuzznip was trying to get at, though he was a bit less explicit than I. But come on, really? Give Fuzznip a break. All there is to the threat list is cut the bullshit, give out the info. Take a look at this post, what a threat paragraph should look like. Info, what it usually does. Done. Does this really require so much work? Should we be writing the bible here?

You know, another thing I'm cringing at right now is wrong information, or ones that were assumed under crazy ass circumstances. Zystral, Kingdra actually does need set up to be a menace. Give me a Waterfall Outrage Draco Meteor Hydro Pump set and I can assure you that it would be a piece of shit without Rain or Dragon Dance, Substitute or Yawn.

There's a crapload of minor mistakes I could point out like Fuzznip did, but the real problem that's happening here is that we're making this project minianalyses instead of a quick info reference. Enough hyperbole, and enough of IT IS THE BEST EVER OH MY GOD USE IT. The way this is going it should have died two weeks ago, like it's identical twin the OU threat list.

[Umbreon Dan]

i'm not really aiming for mine to be quite like the one you pointed out plus, but you're correct; many if not most of the contributors right now are doing these terribly. i was told that we were targeting these at new battlers who were seeing x pokemon for the first time and needed a quick summary. mine follow a pretty simple formula: a sentence or two of what it does, a bit of what moves and items it typically uses, and a two or three lines of how you can deal with it. for example

Jolteon

Type: Electric
Ability: Volt Absorb
Base Stats: 65 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 110 SpA / 95 SpD / 130 Spe
Rating: ***

Jolteon has a top-tier Speed stat and excellent Special Attack, which, when boosted by Life Orb or Choice Specs, makes Jolteon a serious threat. STAB Thunderbolt hits very hard and is Jolteon's primary attack. As threatening as Jolteon is, his movepool is very small and predictable: his other moves are generally limited to Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, and Hidden Power Ice or Grass. Some Jolteon will use Charge Beam to boost their Special Attack and Baton Pass to escape from danger and to scout. If you have Blissey, or to a lesser extent, Snorlax, Jolteon should be easily manageable. Jolteon can also be checked by Ground types with Priority or a Choice Scarf, like Colossoil, Mamoswine and Flygon. If Jolteon is a problem for your team, keep in mind that it has a hard time switching into any attack that isn't Electric-typed.

this system has been working well for me, and i think some of the other writers that are currently having a hard time should try it ^_^

[HD]

Originally Posted by Fat HD

<suicune>
offensive up, going to gengar

Originally Posted by Fat KnightOfTheWind

I'd like to do Infernape and Gengar if you don't mind.

Look through the thread before taking a 'mon, since the reservations thing isn't updated (ehem Fuzz).

Gengar

Type: Ghost / Poison
Base Stats: 60 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 130 SpA / 75 SpDef / 110 Spe
Rating: **

Gengar is an offensive threat one should always watch out for. With 130 base Special Attack and 110 base Speed, as well as an amazing offensive movepool consisting of Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Explosion, Energy Ball, Focus Punch and Hidden Power. Gengar’s movepool also consists of Trick, Protect and Substitute to help set-up. However, most Gengar usually run a Life Orb set consisting of Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Fire/Explosion. A Choice Scarf’ed or Choice Specs’d set of Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Fire/Explosion/Trick also works. If those two sets do not fit in your team, there are also two lure sets: an Expert Belt set of Substitute, Shadow Ball, Hidden Power Fire/Hypnosis/Explosion to lure in Scizor, Blissey and Snorlax; or a set of Life Orb and Protect, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast and Hidden Power to lure in Scizor. There is no true counter for Gengar, since its large movepool has a move for everything. Blissey generally does a good job, but your best bet is to revenge kill Gengar. Gengar is an excellent team player, with three immunities - Ground, Fighting and Normal, letting Gengar cover other threats like Tyranitar and most steel-types, who also take out threats to Gengar itself. Gengar likes field effects up, like most sweepers, to help KO Pokemon like Blissey.

[KnightoftheWind]

Sincere apologies HD. You've pretty much covered what I was going to write, though you may want to mention Gengar loses out in CAP due to Revenankh and Colossoil packing priority moves that can take it down.

[Beej]

Empoleon

Type: Water / Steel
Ability: Torrent
Base Stats: 84 HP / 86 Atk / 88 Def / 111 SpA / 101 SpD / 60 Spe
Rating: ***

While still a very powerful sweeper once it gets set up, Empoleon faces a large obstacle in the CAP metagame: Arghonaut. With Unaware, it ignores Empoleon's potential Petaya boost and can take pretty much any one of its unboosted attacks, bar a Life Orb Grass Knot. However, Arghonaut's presence is largely limited to defensive teams, and it can usually be cleared away through the same methods that Empoleon's other common counters can be cleared out. As in OU, once its counters have been cleared away or weakened, Empoleon is extremely efficient at plowing through an enemy team with only one turn needed to Agility and solidify its sweep.

Celebi

Type: Psychic / Grass
Ability: Natural Cure
Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Rating: ****

At a glance, Celebi is not the most obvious threat to the untrained eye. But after looking closer, it's actually difficult to see why Celebi wouldn't be a monster in a metagame where one of the most influential walls is a defensive Water-type and many of the new Pokemon are weak to Psychic. Offensive Celebi can be extremely destructive with its well-rounded stats and ability to hit many key Pokemon, particularly defensive ones, for super effective damage. Life Orb Leaf Storm pretty much OHKOes everything that's weak to it, including Arghonaut and other bulky Waters, and Psychic rips into Fidgit and Revenankh for massive damage. Combined with coverage moves like Earth Power and Hidden Power Fire, switching into an offensive Celebi without losing a chunk of health or more can seem like a daunting task. This is not to say that Celebi doesn't have its good share of CAP-unique shortcomings. Kitsunoh can outrun even Timid Celebi, resists both of its STAB moves and can deal back loads of damage with ShadowStrike or U-turn. Colossoil can also situationally dispatch Celebi with Sucker Punch or Scarf U-turn, but non-Scarf Colossoils must tread very carefully, as Celebi outruns and can OHKO it with Leaf Storm or even Grass Knot.

Tired. More to come soon.

[zarator]

Beej, how can you talk about Celebi without even mentioning Colossoil? between Sucker Punch and Pursuit, Colossoil needs only a good prediction to dispatch of the green onion. Also, although Colossoil cannot come in safely on Leaf Storm, it is immune to Psychic, and can generally take a Earth Power or HP Fire with enough HP to spare.

[Zach]

Can we get Shaymin listed as a Defensive threat? As both Plus and I can attest, SubSeed Shaymin is very threatening and difficult to take down. Using a set of 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def and a neutral nature, Shaymin can take things like a Stratagem Flamethrower or Cychlom Draco Meteor at full health. In addition, Shaymin can pose and offensive threat if needed with a Seed Flare.

So if Shaymin on the Defensive threat list is green lighted, I hereby reserve it

[Fuzznip]

Shaymin added. OP updated. Almost done!

[Beej]

Originally Posted by Fat zarator

Beej, how can you talk about Celebi without even mentioning Colossoil? between Sucker Punch and Pursuit, Colossoil needs only a good prediction to dispatch of the green onion. Also, although Colossoil cannot come in safely on Leaf Storm, it is immune to Psychic, and can generally take a Earth Power or HP Fire with enough HP to spare.

Because "the green onion needs only a good prediction to dispatch of Colossoil". Unless Colossoil is scarfed, its ability to defeat Celebi is extremely sketchy and limited to a coin toss as to whether Colossoil will kill first or Celebi will kill first. I didn't really feel that it was necessary to bring up this kind of scenario arbitrarily. If people want, I can throw in one sentence about how Colossoil's presence can be a bit dangerous for offensive Celebi.

Edit: added some dangerous stuff for Celebi at the advice of Fuzznip

[zarator]

Originally Posted by Fat Beej

Because "the green onion needs only a good prediction to dispatch of Colossoil". Unless Colossoil is scarfed, its ability to defeat Celebi is extremely sketchy. I didn't really feel that it was necessary to bring up this kind of scenario arbitrarily. If people want, I can throw in one sentence about how Colossoil's presence can be a bit dangerous for offensive Celebi.

That was what I meant. I don't really think Colossoil is a full stop to Celebi, but it can trouble it, and it is enough common to deserve a mention. Latias finds herself in a similar boat against Colossoil, and the narwhal is mentioned in her analysis (ok, I did the analysis, so the observation is quite odd, but a lot of people agreed with the mention of Colossoil in Latias's analysis anyway). Something along the lines of "Although it can't switch into Celebi safely, Colossoil can trouble it with the dual threat of Sucker Punch and Pursuit" may suffice.

tl;dr: I think that Colossoil can threaten Celebi, and it is enough common to warrant a mention. Especially on the offensive moveset (which is much more susceptible to Sucker Punch).

EDIT: Also, I don't think that Offensive Celebi deserves 4 stars, certainly not when Offensive Shaymin got 3. Shaymin's pure Grass type and access to Leaf Storm gives him a much easier time into CAP compared to Celebi (especially because of Colossoil, but also because U-turn users are quite common). There are few Pokémon against whom Shaymin will miss STAB Psychic, too - Fidgit can be smacked with Earth Power (and Shadow Ball is a more common move on Fidgit compared to Sludge Bomb, so another bonus point for Shaymin), and Revenankh takes already a huge amount of damage from Seed Flare (Shaymin also has Air Slash to boot, if it doesnt trust 85% accuracy). In short, Offensive Celebi is inferior to Offensive Shaymin in CAP IMO, and doesn't deserve a higher rating (surely not 4 stars)

[Beej]

Machamp

Type: Fighting
Ability: No Guard
Base Stats: 90 HP / 130 Atk / 80 Def / 65 SpA / 85 SpD / 55 Spe
Rating: **

While Machamp is famously difficult to switch into in OU, the four-armed fighter actually has quite a few problems within the CAP metagame, all of which are a direct result of the added Pokemon. Revenankh and Kitsunoh are immune to DynamicPunch and take only neutral damage from Payback. Revenankh is bulky enough to set up on Machamp, while Kitsunoh can deal lots of damage with ShadowStrike or burn it with Will-O-Wisp so that Payback fails to break its Substitutes. Fidgit is bulky enough to switch into Machamp using its Fighting resist and wall it, the confusion being a minor hindrance. Cyclohm doesn't even resist Fighting, but it completely ignores DynamicPunch's confusion effect through its Shield Dust ability, and defensive Cyclohm is bulky enough to not be 2HKOed. Despite losing a lot of ground due to the presence of the new Pokemon, Machamp is still a powerful Pokemon, and it actually holds a niche within the CAP metagame as a fairly good response to the extremely dangerous Stratagem. Machamp resists Stratagem's Rock STAB, is bulky enough to survive almost any other attack and can OHKO back with DynamicPunch.

wheeeeee

Edit: zarator, you are forgetting a large perk that Celebi has over Shaymin, and that is Recover. Shaymin relies entirely upon Leech Seed and Rest for health recovery, meaning that if it uses Life Orb, it's going to be losing a *lot* of health. Though Rest works well with Shaymin's Natural Cure ability, it is still inferior to Recover for the reason that it is forced to switch out and give up offensive momentum. Celebi's Psychic-typing has many pros along with the obvious cons, also. Celebi's LO Psychic provides a powerful neutral attack with which it can hit Flying-types like Zapdos and Salamence who would otherwise be forcing it out. You also gain a Fighting resist, and while it's not as useful as it is in OU, being able to switch into a Lucario's Close Combat without dying is always a valuable trait to have.

You are right in one respect, which is that Celebi is *not* superior to Shaymin, and I would agree with the idea that Shaymin should be given another star for its perks over Celebi (I didn't actually check to see how many stars Shaymin had). However, saying that offensive Shaymin is superior to Celebi in CAP is a false statement, as they both have individual merits that the other can't emulate.

[zarator]

Point taken, although I wonder whether they both deserve 3 stars or 4 stars. This decision will probably be up to Tennis and Fuzznip.

@Beej: If it isn't an administrative decision I'd like to know why my decision of giving Offensive Shaymin 4 stars have been changed to 3 when edited into the OP^^

[Beej]

The number of stars a threat gets isn't an administrative decision but whatever lol (edit: because giving Celebi and Shaymin four stars was also my idea, and I made a case for it >>)

Celebi

Type: Psychic / Grass
Ability: Natural Cure
Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Rating: ***

Celebi as a defensive Pokemon remains a common sight even in the CAP metagame, for myriad reasons. Its fantastic all-around bulk and access to a plethora of support moves allow it to be used for a variety of purposes, whether it be an all-around counter that relies on its ability to survive hits miraculously and cripple the opponent with Thunder Wave, or its ability to support the team with Reflect and shuffle through the opponent's team with Perish Song. Celebi can also take better advantage of its Psychic typing in the CAP metagame. STAB Psychic allows a defensive Celebi to deal a surprisingly large amount of damage to threats that may otherwise set up on it, such as Revenankh and Fidgit (though one must be wary of Encore). Unfortunately, this is where the story goes sour, as the green onion has to deal with many increased dangers unique to the CAP metagame. Kitsunoh is immune to Thunder Wave and can easily 2HKO Celebi with its STAB moves. Colossoil can outrun defensive Celebi and deal hard damage with its STAB moves and U-turn. Worst of all, Syclant can threaten to OHKO Celebi with Bug Buzz and grab a free turn to set up a Tail Glow on the switch.

Hopefully this isn't too long and editorialized. I may run through it and make revisions.

[Zach]

Defensive Shaymin: A novel by Crunchatize Me

Shaymin

Type: Grass
Ability: Natural Cure
Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Rating: ***

With a combination of Shaymin's 100 / 100 / 100 defenses and a typing that affords it resists to Ground-, Electric-, Water-, and Grass-type attacks, Shaymin proves a formidable wall against many threats in the CAP metagame. With this set of resists and thick defenses, Shaymin can set up a Leech Seed and begin Substitute and Protect stalling against many foes. Shaymin misses out on access to Recover that fellow defensive Grass-type Celebi enjoys, leaving Shaymin's recovery options limited to Leech Seed, the Rest plus Natural Cure combination, or the unreliable Synthesis. Shaymin makes a good check to many top-tier offensive threats including Gyarados (without Bounce) and Colossoil. However, Shaymin must remain weary of certain threats, such as Syclant, who threatens with super effective STAB Ice Beam if Shaymin stays in, or set up a Tail Glow or Spikes if Shaymin switches. Other threats include Heatran, who switches in with little risk and threatens with powerful Fire Blasts, Latias, who outspeeds Shaymin, resists Seed Flare and can set up Calm Minds without much fear, Kitsunoh, who can Taunt or Substitute on Leech Seed attempts and threaten with STAB ShadowStrike or Ice Punch, all while resisting Seed Flare, and others. All in all, Shaymin is an excellent utility with its ability to wall bulky Water-types, access to the SubSeed combination, and solid typing, all while being able to pose an offensive threat in a pinch with a powerful STAB Seed Flare.

this is long >_>

[Beej]

@ Zach, I would suggest three stars, similar to how we handled the offensive sets for Celebi and Shaymin. They both have perks over the other, and while Shaymin arguably has the better defensive type, it has a harder time dealing with certain Pokemon thanks to an inferior movepool. Shaymin's lack of Recover is a huge reason to use Celebi over it in the first place, so three stars is more than fair.

[Zach]

alrighty 3 it is

[Raj]

I do apologize, there's no way I have time to finish for Metagross and Dragonite. I've been caught up w/ alot of ohter things recently and have cut back on Shoddy. :/ Can anyone pick up on those?