Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - January 2010 - Page 8

Stylish Interval · Mar 11th, 2010, 10:02:14 PM

And you wouldn't expect a steel switch-in for Salamence or Dragonite?

PI-Dimension · Mar 11th, 2010, 10:25:09 PM

^this

Quaily · Mar 12th, 2010, 2:05:41 AM

uh, no. bulky waters are just as effective against mence and dragonite in most cases since they carry ice attacks, which are far less effective against latias. Salamence isn't exactly the best example since it could very well be the next suspect. Specially based dragonite with draco meteor/surf sounds interesting, but it's just so slow compared to latias. no real advantages over kingdra I think. Something like agility/dragon pulse or meteor/surf/thunderbolt would be really weird. I want to try it now.

TSPhoenix · Mar 13th, 2010, 11:16:33 PM

The whole TTar thing is interesting, on my ladder team I've been running CBTar for a long time and I've found that in the last couple months its becoming more and more of a deadweight.

Its obviously still an awesome Pokemon so I've been trying other sets on some of my Unrated teams and LO-TTar dies to fast and is even more prone to being revenged by Scizor even though its not locked. Expert Belt worked pretty well. But Scarf was working very well. I was running a special set and you caught a lot of Gliscor and stuff off guard with Dark Pulse and Surf.

ScarfTar is a great set, but TTar's biggest asset is still his variety. People expected Pursuit/SE/Crunch/filler and it made TTar pretty worthless, now that he is running a greater variety of sets he'll be harder to predict and be more effective.

eric the espeon · Mar 14th, 2010, 10:59:54 AM

Stats in a more easy to copy form, with a few extra numbers.

Marionic · Mar 14th, 2010, 10:16:32 PM

Interesting stats...but where are to February Stats? It should be here by now...

eric the espeon · Mar 14th, 2010, 10:33:14 PM

February logs were lost, so no stats. I think it was the server switch. Next months should be fine.

SHUCKLE MAN · Mar 15th, 2010, 1:40:56 PM

Awww, that's a shame. :(

How will this affect the April tier lists? To be honest, it probably won't make a difference anyway, so it's not a big deal.

**capefeather** · Mar 15th, 2010, 2:09:32 PM

Last I heard, the tier changes were being changed to Jan-May-Sept.

SHUCKLE MAN · Mar 17th, 2010, 1:12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat capefeather

Last I heard, the tier changes were being changed to Jan-May-Sept.

I hope not, because I think things can change a lot in 4 months, and the lists might not be representative enough by April/August/December, when they're 4 months old. But if that's what does happen, I'm sure, I'll just get over it.

However, even if the the next tier list is in May, there's still exactly the same problem. All 3 or 4 months need to be taken into account (although, they are weighted to give more importance to the more recent months), yet we don't have one month of the statistics.

~~PallyHeroRush52~~ · Mar 17th, 2010, 2:47:37 PM

Those cumulative stats are scary... the #37 most used Pokemon (Weavile) and everything less used than it combined are used less than Scizor.

supermarth64 · Mar 17th, 2010, 6:52:23 PM

The idea with changing the tiers less often is that tiers will have more time to settle down rather than having a change every 3 months instead of 4. Also, the February stats are at chaos's house, but X-Act has currently disappeared.

**capefeather** · Mar 18th, 2010, 10:13:57 AM

The usage tier formula accounts for every month that has passed since the last tier change. There is also a mechanism for suspects that get dropped down during the period. Presumably, this would be used for February if no one had the February stats.

WarriorPrince · Mar 18th, 2010, 3:21:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PallyHeroRush52

Those cumulative stats are scary... the #37 most used Pokemon (Weavile) and everything less used than it combined are used less than Scizor.

lol. I think you need to check again. I can up with something completely different. Weavile and the ten after it combined beat Scizor.

Ramblin Wreck · Mar 18th, 2010, 4:31:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PallyHeroRush52

Those cumulative stats are scary... the #37 most used Pokemon (Weavile) and everything less used than it combined are used less than Scizor.

Where are you getting that? Weavile through Ninjask (seven Pokémon, just a little less than the 424 you claim) combine for 5.14% overall.

cmurph · Mar 20th, 2010, 1:17:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ramblin Wreck

Where are you getting that? Weavile through Ninjask (seven Pokémon, just a little less than the 424 you claim) combine for 5.14% overall.

i'm really confused, weavile alone is 5.11%, how does weavile plus 6 others combine to 5.14?

afterburn · Mar 20th, 2010, 7:40:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Stylish Interval

And you wouldn't expect a steel switch-in for Salamence or Dragonite?

Not exactly. If you know the Salamence you're facing is a mix-mence, you wouldn't dare switch in a steel type knowing you'll get fried by a fire blast doing >100%. The only way you're going to switch a steel type into it is, a) you have a choice scarf heatran after it kills one of your pokemon, b) You've got Mence to about 60% to get revenged by Scizor or c) got it to low enough health (30-20) to be picked off by a priority move, by which time it would've taken down a few mons. All the above scenarios talk about switching into revenge kill, not switching into a direct attack.

Now you may be saying, "if it just draco meteors, then i'll just switch in my steel". The truth is, even at -2, a Salamence with 252satk can still at least 2HKO the OU steel types. Metagross takes up to 58%, the standard scizor takes up to 124%, etc.

Stylish Interval · Mar 20th, 2010, 12:44:26 PM

I normally would switch in a Steel-type if I had no prior information on Salamence (or D-nite), which was the situation I thought I was addressing when I made that post. Salamence can dent anything with Draco Meteor, which is it's safest attack. To use Fire Blast is to risk Heatran or a bulky water coming in and stopping you from netting a kill while you've lost 35% HP for nothing (possibly more if SS is in play). And the next time that you would switched back in, assuming you were retreating and not staying in, you would have lost 60% and not killed anything yet. There is absolutely no reason to lead with Fire Blast unless you know that all of your opponents safest switch-ins are weak to Fire. Steel-types are the greatest switch-in in a situation where the opponent hasn't scouted your entire team (unlikely as MixMence is generally an early-mid game Pokemon used for opening up holes in the opponents team) because Draco Meteor will always be the safest bet for Salamence to use, as it dents everything bar Steel types (kind of) and Blissey.

Also, a 2HKO doesn't matter in the situation that a healthy Steel-type comes in after Salamence uses Draco Meteor. If a Metagross with 60% (after SR) comes in after you kill something with Draco Meteor then it's going to kill you unless you CH. If Jirachi comes in with at least 50% (after SR, of course), it's going to kill you unless you CH. Of course this doesn't matter if you were trying to say that you bring in a Steel on the Draco Meteor, but your post didn't really sound like you were trying to say that. If it did, then yes of course it can still 2KHO but switch-ins all depend on the specific situation and the specific team and you can't generalize something like that. I could be sacrificing my steel or I could be using it to lure in a Fire Blast for Vaporeon or Suicune to make Salamence lose more HP, etc. Also I kind of lost where I was going so this post may be unorganized.

Master Of Puppets · Mar 23rd, 2010, 12:45:16 PM

I'm so happy to see Scizor falling a bit. lol

Thanks for the stats Doug.

~~IronGross~~ · Mar 24th, 2010, 4:04:07 PM

Fizz · Mar 24th, 2010, 4:18:35 PM

Psychic is a horrible attack type in ubers.

SHUCKLE MAN · Mar 25th, 2010, 1:56:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Froslass

Different types get different usages in each tier. For example, in OU, there's a lot of Steels and Dragons get a lot of usage. Whilst in UU, Dragons and Steels are much rarer (only really Steelix, Aggron, Magneton, Altaria and Registeel). On the contrary, Grass-types are not very used in OU, but get a lot more success in UU (Venusaur, Shaymin and Roserade have all been #1 in UU multiple times).

So basically, Psychic on Mewtwo may be useful if you were using it in UU, but not in Ubers, as the types of Pokemon used in Ubers are more resistent to Psychic, than the types of Pokemon used in UU.

This is one of the arguements that people use to say that NFEs won't use the same strategies as their evolutions, as they'll be used in very different environments.

Atticus · Mar 25th, 2010, 3:26:55 PM

umm im pretty sure the the guy knew psychic was bad in ubers...

simple answer: newer players who simply assume stab is useful on mewtwo

Ramblin Wreck · Mar 25th, 2010, 5:15:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat cmurph

i'm really confused, weavile alone is 5.11%, how does weavile plus 6 others combine to 5.14?

http://erictheespeon.hostse.com/usagestats/jan10.html

I'm looking at this link and the "Overall Usage" column. Sorry about that, I forgot to clarify.

SHUCKLE MAN · Apr 2nd, 2010, 6:01:20 PM

I'd be interested in seeing the February stats to be honest. The last month we had stats for was Januray, and it's April now! I'd be interested to see Tyranitar's usage in OU, and Venusaur, Cresselia, Chansey, and others usages in UU.

In NU, they've missed a couple of months of statistics, but they put the skipped month's statistics with the month's after (if that makes sense), so they could do the same this time.

Mar 11th, 2010, 10:02:14 PM	#176
Stylish Interval Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 908 Kentucky	And you wouldn't expect a steel switch-in for Salamence or Dragonite? __________________ RIP Delta RIP Delta RIP Delta RIP Delta RIP Delta if you love to lift heavy things, put them down, then lift them again, join #lifting!

Mar 11th, 2010, 10:25:09 PM	#177
PI-Dimension Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 255 North Carolina	^this __________________ (Trade Thread) ☁ Cake & Pi's PokèPastry Palace ☁ Black FC: 1034 3149 5382

Mar 14th, 2010, 10:59:54 AM	#180
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Stats in a more easy to copy form, with a few extra numbers. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted. Last edited by eric the espeon; Mar 14th, 2010 at 1:50:28 PM.

Mar 14th, 2010, 10:33:14 PM	#182
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	February logs were lost, so no stats. I think it was the server switch. Next months should be fine. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Mar 15th, 2010, 1:40:56 PM	#183
SHUCKLE MAN Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,084	Awww, that's a shame. :( How will this affect the April tier lists? To be honest, it probably won't make a difference anyway, so it's not a big deal. __________________ Shedinja fainted!

Mar 12th, 2010, 2:05:41 AM	#178
Quaily Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 400	uh, no. bulky waters are just as effective against mence and dragonite in most cases since they carry ice attacks, which are far less effective against latias. Salamence isn't exactly the best example since it could very well be the next suspect. Specially based dragonite with draco meteor/surf sounds interesting, but it's just so slow compared to latias. no real advantages over kingdra I think. Something like agility/dragon pulse or meteor/surf/thunderbolt would be really weird. I want to try it now.

Mar 13th, 2010, 11:16:33 PM	#179
TSPhoenix Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 387 South Australia	The whole TTar thing is interesting, on my ladder team I've been running CBTar for a long time and I've found that in the last couple months its becoming more and more of a deadweight. Its obviously still an awesome Pokemon so I've been trying other sets on some of my Unrated teams and LO-TTar dies to fast and is even more prone to being revenged by Scizor even though its not locked. Expert Belt worked pretty well. But Scarf was working very well. I was running a special set and you caught a lot of Gliscor and stuff off guard with Dark Pulse and Surf. ScarfTar is a great set, but TTar's biggest asset is still his variety. People expected Pursuit/SE/Crunch/filler and it made TTar pretty worthless, now that he is running a greater variety of sets he'll be harder to predict and be more effective.

Mar 14th, 2010, 10:16:32 PM	#181
Marionic Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 31	Interesting stats...but where are to February Stats? It should be here by now...

Mar 15th, 2010, 2:09:32 PM	#184
capefeather hey, even pirates need attorneys Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,609 especially internet pirates	Last I heard, the tier changes were being changed to Jan-May-Sept. __________________ If we cannot take joy in things that are merely real, our lives will always be empty. <+joshe> im a registered sex offender for up to calc 3 <+Reflect_Suicune> i was thining of fucking jellicent for some reason <DetroitLolcat> I AM AROUSED BY BIMETALLIC CURRENCY!

Mar 17th, 2010, 2:47:37 PM	#186
~~PallyHeroRush52~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 67	Those cumulative stats are scary... the #37 most used Pokemon (Weavile) and everything less used than it combined are used less than Scizor.

Mar 18th, 2010, 10:13:57 AM	#188
capefeather hey, even pirates need attorneys Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,609 especially internet pirates	The usage tier formula accounts for every month that has passed since the last tier change. There is also a mechanism for suspects that get dropped down during the period. Presumably, this would be used for February if no one had the February stats. __________________ If we cannot take joy in things that are merely real, our lives will always be empty. <+joshe> im a registered sex offender for up to calc 3 <+Reflect_Suicune> i was thining of fucking jellicent for some reason <DetroitLolcat> I AM AROUSED BY BIMETALLIC CURRENCY!

Mar 20th, 2010, 12:44:26 PM	#193
Stylish Interval Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 908 Kentucky	I normally would switch in a Steel-type if I had no prior information on Salamence (or D-nite), which was the situation I thought I was addressing when I made that post. Salamence can dent anything with Draco Meteor, which is it's safest attack. To use Fire Blast is to risk Heatran or a bulky water coming in and stopping you from netting a kill while you've lost 35% HP for nothing (possibly more if SS is in play). And the next time that you would switched back in, assuming you were retreating and not staying in, you would have lost 60% and not killed anything yet. There is absolutely no reason to lead with Fire Blast unless you know that all of your opponents safest switch-ins are weak to Fire. Steel-types are the greatest switch-in in a situation where the opponent hasn't scouted your entire team (unlikely as MixMence is generally an early-mid game Pokemon used for opening up holes in the opponents team) because Draco Meteor will always be the safest bet for Salamence to use, as it dents everything bar Steel types (kind of) and Blissey. Also, a 2HKO doesn't matter in the situation that a healthy Steel-type comes in after Salamence uses Draco Meteor. If a Metagross with 60% (after SR) comes in after you kill something with Draco Meteor then it's going to kill you unless you CH. If Jirachi comes in with at least 50% (after SR, of course), it's going to kill you unless you CH. Of course this doesn't matter if you were trying to say that you bring in a Steel on the Draco Meteor, but your post didn't really sound like you were trying to say that. If it did, then yes of course it can still 2KHO but switch-ins all depend on the specific situation and the specific team and you can't generalize something like that. I could be sacrificing my steel or I could be using it to lure in a Fire Blast for Vaporeon or Suicune to make Salamence lose more HP, etc. Also I kind of lost where I was going so this post may be unorganized. __________________ RIP Delta RIP Delta RIP Delta RIP Delta RIP Delta if you love to lift heavy things, put them down, then lift them again, join #lifting!

Mar 23rd, 2010, 12:45:16 PM	#194
Master Of Puppets Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 100 Texas	I'm so happy to see Scizor falling a bit. lol Thanks for the stats Doug. __________________ FC: 3352-0777-5747

Mar 24th, 2010, 4:04:07 PM	#195
~~IronGross~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 24 The wild east	\| Mewtwo \| Move \| Psychic \| 6.5 \| In last April/May that was 10%; is Psychic useful, or people are simply misusing Mewtwo?

Mar 24th, 2010, 4:18:35 PM	#196
Fizz Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 801	Psychic is a horrible attack type in ubers.

Mar 25th, 2010, 3:26:55 PM	#198
Atticus Atticus Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,248 Toronto	umm im pretty sure the the guy knew psychic was bad in ubers... simple answer: newer players who simply assume stab is useful on mewtwo

Apr 2nd, 2010, 6:01:20 PM	#200
SHUCKLE MAN Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,084	I'd be interested in seeing the February stats to be honest. The last month we had stats for was Januray, and it's April now! I'd be interested to see Tyranitar's usage in OU, and Venusaur, Cresselia, Chansey, and others usages in UU. In NU, they've missed a couple of months of statistics, but they put the skipped month's statistics with the month's after (if that makes sense), so they could do the same this time. __________________ Shedinja fainted!