Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - April 2010

[Blue_Tornado]

ok

those extra 100,000 people

I swear there is no other reason for Aero to be that high, I guess bottom ladder is completely loaded with them ._.

[Raikaria]

Well, Aerodactyl is one of the most reliable leads for getting up Stealth Rock... or preventing it on the other side. There really isn't aything that can out-taunt it that's actually used.

Anyway, time to look at UU/NU:

#50: Regirock
#51: Miltank [Please... leave NU]
#52: Slowking [You can go too]
# 53: Nidoking: We might be seeing him drop
#54: Charizard: I don't ant him to leave :/
#55 Hippopotas
#56: Quilfish: We might get back some viability in Rain teams 0_o


Blah blah blah
#60: Nidoqueen: Toxic Spikes aren't viable in NU because Skuntank is everywhere.
#62: Drifblim: Joy, Baton Pass may be coming back

[mtr]

Originally Posted by Fat Blue_Tornado

ok

those extra 100,000 people

I swear there is no other reason for Aero to be that high, I guess bottom ladder is completely loaded with them ._.

That's not a fair assessment, Aerodactyl remains a solid lead if your team is concerned solely with Stealth Rock and denying your opponent the same. He pairs particularly well with DD LO Gyara and others.

Now, Electivire, on the other hand...

[Blue_Tornado]

Originally Posted by Fat mtr

That's not a fair assessment, Aerodactyl remains a solid lead if your team is concerned solely with Stealth Rock and denying your opponent the same. He pairs particularly well with DD LO Gyara and others.

Now, Electivire, on the other hand...

Well, yeah, I have to admit I went a little bland there, but what I meant was; it doesn't matter if Aero is a good lead or not, the fact is that many new players prefer to use either that or Azelf leads, and that's why I think it's connected.

[cmurph]

can someone explain why the item choice percentages don't always to add up to 100%? For example:

Tyranitar | Item | Choice Scarf | 37.8 |
Tyranitar | Item | Leftovers | 17.7 |
Tyranitar | Item | Babiri Berry | 10.1 |
Tyranitar | Item | Other (6) | < 9.2 |

Those percentages add up to 74.8%

also, I am shocked that ninjask continues to be ou. Who the hell uses this thing?

[jc104]

There are 6 items each with up to 9.2% usage. I got confused by that to begin with too.

[Quaily]

people below 1000 cre use ninjask leads..

breloom is in the top 20 now.

[Syberia]

Breloom has always been an annoying motherfucker, I am not surprised there.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by Fat Blue_Tornado

ok

those extra 100,000 people

I swear there is no other reason for Aero to be that high, I guess bottom ladder is completely loaded with them ._.

It ain't bottom ladder bro, it's anyone. I use that on almost all of my teams now because I really don't care about my lead doing anything other than getting up rocks. My teams are usually highly offensive and absolutely need Stealth Rock up. Meanwhile, I have SR weak Pokemon like Mence and Weavile who would really benefit from delaying rocks, so being the quickest OU Taunter there is has its benefits as well.

I guarantee that if you started using it on your offense team, you'd just use it all the time without even noticing it because it's that damn convenient. That's why it's still OU.

[Blue_Tornado]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

It ain't bottom ladder bro, it's anyone. I use that on almost all of my teams now because I really don't care about my lead doing anything other than getting up rocks. My teams are usually highly offensive and absolutely need Stealth Rock up. Meanwhile, I have SR weak Pokemon like Mence and Weavile who would really benefit from delaying rocks, so being the quickest OU Taunter there is has its benefits as well.

I guarantee that if you started using it on your offense team, you'd just use it all the time without even noticing it because it's that damn convenient. That's why it's still OU.

Originally Posted by Fat Blue_Tornado

Well, yeah, I have to admit I went a little bland there, but what I meant was; it doesn't matter if Aero is a good lead or not, the fact is that many new players prefer to use either that or Azelf leads, and that's why I think it's connected.

Of course I didn't mean "Aero sucks don't use it" although it does resemble that in hindsight. I only meant that so many new players use suicide leads that they basically split into groups of Azelf-leading-battlers, Ninjask-leading-battlers and Aero-leading-battlers, as well as some other forgotten fragile leads.

[Zoom]

7 | Machamp | 35001 | 3.57

I'm surprised that Machamp isn't even higher on the list. Machamp is the best anti-lead (no doubt) and this month I had the feeling that every second/third lead I saw was a Machamp. Surprisingly the usage of Lum Berry on Leadgross, which can reliably kill Machamp decreased, while the usage of Occa Berry increased.

| Tyranitar | Item | Choice Scarf | 37.8 |

I guess Choice Scarf on Ttar is standard now. Now it's possible to bluff Choice Scarf and get a surprise kill easily. OK, your opponent will notice the speed loss, but it's working for me so far. You can improve this illusion additionally by taking more time for your turn than usual, which many will misinterpret as a switch.

Also, Rotom-A and Latias harshly dropped this month (Rotom: -2.23%; Latias: -1.81%) probably as a result of the durability of Scarf-Ttar, while the usage of Scizor, Machamp and Bronzong (you gotta love Offensive TR) increased by ~1.5%

[capefeather]

Originally Posted by Fat Syberia

You really should have gotten a few more people together and tried this in OU. Then maybe we could have finally proven the flaws of tiering by usage (especially when, through suspect testing, we finally have at least a basic way of measuring "power," instead of using usage as a stand-in) in a more prominent way.

That won't "prove" anything. You're intentionally denying the usage tier the very reason that it works, by removing the assumption that competitive battlers on the ladder (for the most part) play to win. This is like gathering a group of people to commit mass murder to "prove" that humans are inherently evil. It's stupid.

[Aura Guardian]

It would show how easily the metagame can be manipulated. Anyway, tiering by usage encourages use of the more used. Not the more powerful.

And it seems Scizor is going back up... I was kinda hoping for decentralization. Oh well.

[capefeather]

"Easily"? The April Fool's joke pulled by the French Smogoners couldn't get Magikarp into the top 25 of the least popular tier on the Smogon server. Unless you're suggesting that a conventional tier list as seen in fighting games is possible/appropriate for Pokémon, your statements about power are completely meaningless. As it stands, competitive Pokémon has had many years to come up with such a list.

[Aura Guardian]

Not in the top 25 used, but in the top 10 leads...

Anyway, how many of them participated? If it was a small number, then "easily" fits well. Anyway, it was with MAGIKARP, imagine how easily it could be done in any tier with a half-useful pokemon. Maybe, say, Pikachu or Raichu. Maybe with Gabite. Or work to raise Heracross in a similar way. That last one is highly applicable: get maybe twice as many people to work on raising Heracross (twice seems a reasonable estimate), and the bug would not be in as much danger of being UU.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Fat capefeather

Except OU battles outnumber Uber battles over 30-fold.

Yes, but the number of Magikarp used, if they were Heracross on OU, would alone be worth a going up one place on the usage stats. Make a challenge of using Heracross, and they could probably double their numbers (possibly easily) on the usage of the pokemon to raise in usage.

[capefeather]

Except OU battles outnumber Uber battles over 30-fold.

[Bluewind]

Really, in what twisted world do we live in which Electivire has more usage than things like Heracross and Roserade, who are actually useful...?

Anyways thanks for statistics as always.

[mtr]

Lol, Electivire will never die. I honestly wish he would get Swords Dance and better STAB, then he would be somewhat useful, though still beaten by Swampert and Hippowdon.

Also, Heracross suffers in OU, simply because you can almost always find a Scizor, Tyranitar, or a Lucario to do the job better. In Ubers, ScarfHera makes a great Darkrai check/counter and a way to beat random Psychic-types in emergencies.

[Snorlaxe]

These are interesting. I honestly expected Machamp to be higher up as a lead, it seems like I play one every third game these days. Also, since when is Aerodactyl the second most popular lead? I really rarely ever see one, and rightly so imo; they are shut down so easily by any decent anti-lead, and it's not worth having a 5 Pokemon team to me just to guarantee getting Stealth Rock down. But I digress; I'm just surprised at how popular it is.

Also, lol at the Magikarp, good job France!
le travail fantastique ;)

[Eraddd]

My pert lead gets seriously messed by machamp leads. Confusion really sucks, and dynamic punch is like a 2-3 KO, and sometimes I can't get SR up.

Anyone know a counter LOL?

[capefeather]

I'd hardly call a one-place rise to have "manipulated the metagame". These complaints seriously sound like the complainers have no grasp of how large the numbers really are in these statistics.

[mtr]

Originally Posted by Fat Eraddd

My pert lead gets seriously messed by machamp leads. Confusion really sucks, and dynamic punch is like a 2-3 KO, and sometimes I can't get SR up.

Anyone know a counter LOL?

Machamp is a really annoying lead, but try a Scarf Jirachi: Trick makes predicting around it considerably easier, since even with a Scarf Machamp won't outspeed anything.

Also if you really hate it, use Zen Headbutt on Jirachi.

Otherwise, Psychic on Azelf is an ok way to deal with it, but lead Machamps are EV'd to survive Psychic and KO with Payback+Bullet Punch.

[kokoloko*]

Originally Posted by Fat capefeather

I'd hardly call a one-place rise to have "manipulated the metagame". These complaints seriously sound like the complainers have no grasp of how large the numbers really are in these statistics.

Or maybe you're having trouble understanding that manipulation doesn't need to be huge in order to be significant. If, lets say Roserade, starts falling back into UU and people who play UU don't want that to happen they can easily get a group together, like the French Smgoners did, and keep it out of there by simply using it over and over in OU. Its not like it would need to make a huge jump; even half a percentage point would keep it out of UU.

By doing this you are literally altering the tiering of a mon, there is nothing to argue here. Its possible and it has been done. Frankly, I agree with Syberia, tiering by usage is flawed. however I don't know that there is a better way to categorize mons, due to the ambiguity of "power perception."

[capefeather]

Exactly, there is no better idea. But the Magikarp thing was done as a joke, for amusement. Would you really be willing to put in so much effort just so one Pokémon doesn't get dropped to UU or something? Seriously, think about how pointless that is.

[Bribery]

Originally Posted by Fat Eraddd

My pert lead gets seriously messed by machamp leads. Confusion really sucks, and dynamic punch is like a 2-3 KO, and sometimes I can't get SR up.

Anyone know a counter LOL?

Lum Berry Metagross with Meteor Mash does well against it. Meteor Mash will 2HKO it. It's probably one of the more reliable counters to Machamp. But otherwise, most leads will lose to Machamp which is why it does such a great job as an anti-lead.