Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - May 2010

[blasphemy1]

Originally Posted by Fat Anachronism

Cradily at 80th in UU? -_- It counters Mismagius, Moltres AND special Venusaur.

Only if you have Hippopotas to start the Sandstorm, and if you see its usage, you know why Cradily is so low as well. Admittedly, though, it is a pretty solid lead.

[Bologo]

I'm honestly wondering why Shaymin is only #81 on Standard while he's in the 20s for Suspect. I suppose the fact that the Suspect ladder has only been open for a week is a a factor, but now that Latias is gone, Shaymin should be fucking shit up in Standard.

Honestly, I run a Seed Flare/Earth Power/HP Ice/Rest with LO and a 252/252 spread, and it murders things quite handily, including Salamence. Salamence seems to think he can come in for free against Shaymin, only to get a rude awakening (and then promptly going back to sleep, permanently).

You might say that Scizor is so common in Standard, and the lack of HP Fire is very bad. However, Scizor has to be very careful about coming into Shaymin's Seed Flares. If it takes a Seed Flare on the switch-in, there's a 40% chance of him getting killed by Earth Power the next turn. Same thing goes for Skarmory. While this obviously doesn't have a large chance of happening, it's enough for Shaymin to kill his counters, allowing him to throw around Seed Flares for very large amounts of damage.

However, the best thing about Shaymin is that Natural Rest. Most Life Orb sweepers don't get very many chances to come in and break things, since a lot of them don't have good recovery or are quite frail. But Shaymin can Rest up and come back in at full health and do his job all over again.

I have a feeling that people are still trying to use Shaymin exactly like they would use Celebi, and this is probably the reason that Shaymin's so low on the Standard ladder. I'm hoping that with his extremely high usage on the Suspect ladder, people will finally stop this, and realize that he's a much more offensively based pokemon than Celebi. Also, people seem to be attributing his success on that ladder due to the removal of Salamence, when in fact, it's Latias that screwed him up.

--

In other news, I'm glad to see that more and more people are using OTR Bronzong. I swear, I used to be a Bronzong hater, but since I started using that set, I've seen what a monster that giant bell can really be. It's good to see other people doing the same. xD

[bludhoundz]

I run the same set but with a Scarf.

I'm not even running it on Suspect though, I'm using it on Standard.

Shaymin is really quite underused, even with Mence running around (he isn't really even a counter).

[mtr]

@Bologo:

Simply, the reason Shaymin is so low on the standard ladder is that people are put off by the BL label. It's really sad, because I honestly think that even though Celebi is more versatile, Shaymin is a better pick on offensive teams.

The reason he's so high on Suspect is that losing Salamence destroyed the Dragon/Steel metagame, making OU a lot like UU, with Grass/Fire/Water cores. Shaymin works well on offensive cores.

[Quaily]

there aren't enough suspect games to get a good read on what will be ou/uu anyway.

[lordkira]

Originally Posted by Fat bludhoundz

I run the same set but with a Scarf.

I'm not even running it on Suspect though, I'm using it on Standard.

Shaymin is really quite underused, even with Mence running around (he isn't really even a counter).

I agree with this
shaymin was imo a fantastic pokemon to use even with mence around
i was quite fond of the sweeper set though :/

[Aquamentus]

Originally Posted by Fat Bologo

I'm honestly wondering why Shaymin is only #81 on Standard while he's in the 20s for Suspect. I suppose the fact that the Suspect ladder has only been open for a week is a a factor, but now that Latias is gone, Shaymin should be fucking shit up in Standard.

Honestly, I run a Seed Flare/Earth Power/HP Ice/Rest with LO and a 252/252 spread, and it murders things quite handily, including Salamence. Salamence seems to think he can come in for free against Shaymin, only to get a rude awakening (and then promptly going back to sleep, permanently).

You might say that Scizor is so common in Standard, and the lack of HP Fire is very bad. However, Scizor has to be very careful about coming into Shaymin's Seed Flares. If it takes a Seed Flare on the switch-in, there's a 40% chance of him getting killed by Earth Power the next turn.

I was actually thinking the same thing, and use(d) the same set in Standard back in the good old days when max speed Salamence was somewhat of a gimmick. Killing Heatran, Salamence, and sometimes Scizor with a Grass-type is hilarious, and even with 4/0 and a Life Orb it can still stick around for a little while due to its 100-across defenses and Natural Rest. Really, that set should probably replace this one, if you ask me...

[SJCrew]

The most likely explanation would be that Shaymin occupies a space on people's teams that was previously reserved for Salamence. Any time you wanted a base 100 LO sweeper on your team, Salamence would take top priority. All Shaymin could really do in the Standard metagame was tank, and Celebi has been filling that role quite nicely for some time now.

[Despotar]

There have been some fascinating stuff going on..
I am loving the Suspect metagame. You see pokemon like DD Dragonite and Kindra shine where Mence was superior.
I wouldn't have predicted Heatran's huge boost in usage!

[Efemera]

Originally Posted by Fat Quaily

Umbreon might not be a noob pokemon, but the people using it are

Umbreon | Move | Mean Look | 40.2
vs
Umbreon | Move | Heal Bell | 8.8

/facepalm
/facepalm
/facepalm

I blame the outdated Analysis from when Umbreon was UU.

Trap Passer:
"This is one of Umbreon's most useful sets, and the fairly exclusive Mean Look and Baton Pass combination can be deadly when executed correctly."

Trapping a Pokemon and leaving it helpless while you freely set up is a very appealing idea, but this is ridiculously hard to pull off in OU, as most of Umbreon's switch-ins carry U-turn or a phazing move, and even then plenty of Pokemon get two turns to attack or set up while you trap them. Curse and Cleric duties are the only really viable sets for Umbreon in OU, in my opinion. Umbreon is definitely one of the best Heal Bell/Aromatherapy users in the game.

[Quaily]

I could have sworn the heal bell set would have been added to the analysis since there was quite a bit of talk about it in the UU forum, but I don't even see a mention of the ability on the entire page. With synchronize fantastic defenses and wish umbreon just screams 'cleric!"

[shrang]

Originally Posted by Fat mtr

@Bologo:

Simply, the reason Shaymin is so low on the standard ladder is that people are put off by the BL label. It's really sad, because I honestly think that even though Celebi is more versatile, Shaymin is a better pick on offensive teams.

The reason he's so high on Suspect is that losing Salamence destroyed the Dragon/Steel metagame, making OU a lot like UU, with Grass/Fire/Water cores. Shaymin works well on offensive cores.

I know, right?? And then you have noobs who see "OU" next to Electivire and Ninjask and they go "Electivire is better than Shaymin". Shaymin is awesome. I actually see no difference in its effectiveness in Suspect and Standard. I've been using Shaymin for ages (Much more than I use Celebeh) and it's never disappointed me.

[cmurph]

I started using offensive shaymin and its really been fantastic. Offensively it's much better than Celebi IMO thanks to Seed Flare. Definitely deserves to be OU

[nesan]

Originally Posted by Fat cmurph

I started using offensive shaymin and its really been fantastic. Offensively it's much better than Celebi IMO thanks to Seed Flare. Definitely deserves to be OU

I don't know about the OU suggestion but it does hit hardcore! I've been using it as well. Like you said it is better then Celebi when it comes to offence. I didn't have that much luck with the sub seeder set though.

[lordkira]

But what would happen to the status of Celebi and Shaymin when Celebi gets nasty plot?
Wouldn't offensive celebi with NP and 3 attacks/recover be a better choice of offensive grass type than our little hedgehog buddy?

[nesan]

Originally Posted by Fat lordkira

But what would happen to the status of Celebi and Shaymin when Celebi gets nasty plot?
Wouldn't offensive celebi with NP and 3 attacks/recover be a better choice of offensive grass type than our little hedgehog buddy?

After Nasty Plot offensive Celebi will be popular in the Metagame! IMO it's not a great gift to Celebi but it sure makes Celebi better then Shaymin!

[Tortferngatr]

Originally Posted by Fat nesan

After Nasty Plot offensive Celebi will be popular in the Metagame! IMO it's not a great gift to Celebi but it sure makes Celebi better then Shaymin!

Except Shaymin isn't Tar Bait.

[Quaily]

neither is celebi after a NP. a 4 hp tyranitar takes 128.07%-150.88% in a sandstorm from a +2 grass knot. It can only survive with a max hp/spd spread.

[Lucalibur]

that is not the point, scarf t-tar outspeed and ohko with crunch.

[SJCrew]

You're really underestimating Celebi's bulk, as ScarfTar's Crunch doesn't even OHKO Celebi without defensive EVs. If TTar comes in while I NP, Grass Knot OHKOs easily and I can Recover the damage later. Unless my opponent is a dick and has Weavile too for no good reason. :(

[shrang]

I don't know if Grass Knot would be the best attack on NP Celebi anyway (Although taking out TTar is great). I was just thinking NP/Psychic/Earth Power/Recover (Or HP Fire) or something like that, since Grass Knot's coverage isn't very good (+2 Timid LO Earth Power does 82.46% - 97.66%, which has about 2/3 chance of OHKOing after SR anyway).

However, I don't see NP really giving Celebi all THAT much advantage over Offensive Shaymin, since most Shaymins don't boost anyway, and just hits really hard without a boost. Shaymin would definitely be the Pokemon to hold Choice Specs or something like that.

[calze6]

Why has shaymin gone up in suspect? Shaymin pretty much can kill mence with HP ice. Anyway, loling at ubers stats with weedle, luvdisc, dunsparce and delibird. I see a big increase in kyogre and darkrai leads.

[Shizzle]

Also Shaymin has Seed Flare, I think thats more than reason enough to use him over Celebi, possibly even with NP. I mean 40% to -2SpD is a bit insane, mixed with SR (and possibly spikes!) he can work better than Celebi in terms of offense. I am not sure that there is enough time for Celebi to run both Recover and NP at the same time, so personally I still think that Shaymin is the better option.

[Conflict]

Thanks Doug!

[Quaily]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucalibur

that is not the point, scarf t-tar outspeed and ohko with crunch.

then you are playing the game of will ttar crunch or pursuit, does it have a scarf etc. debating that is pointless and dumb. The odds are in celebi's favor that ttar is not holding a scarf, or will go for pursuit instead.