Input on Tiers Needed

[DDD v.3]

Ok so admittedly, I am new to Smogon. Over the past few years, my friends and I have been battling competitively amongst a group of 20 or so people. As time passed by, our teams have become much more intricate, and revolve around deep strategies. I was told by a friend to check out the tiers here when we were trying to decide if we wanted to use the rules used in the official championships, or something different. When looking at the tiers, I became extremely disappointed, however. The tiers do not seem to make any sense to me. Pokemon that can be extraordinarily helpful like Lapras or Ursaring are listed as NU, while Pokemon I would never consider for a team like Flygon and Tentacruel are listed as OU.

I have battled people who are active on this site, and even have shops on here, and I was disappointed by the battle. While they had a team with perfect EVs and IVs, and got their strategy from here, I was able to take them out losing only one Pokemon.

I would like to know what other people think, because the fact that this is so accepted really bothers me.

[ARandomDude]

The tiers are based on usage, and some Pokemon you think "useful" are probably outclassed by others. In the case of Lapras, weakness to Stealth Rock makes it inferior to most bulky waters. Ursaring has massive team slot competition as a physical attacker when Pokemon like Lucario or Infernape are available. Flygon has great STABs and a fast U-Turn. Tentacruel is vital on stall due to countering Infernape, a popular stallbreaker, Rapid Spinning, and Toxic Spiking.

You probably beat the first person because your rating is low at the beginning, so you fought someone also with a low rating.

[Fatecrashers]

Sorry, but your experience from battling 20 or so friends or some random Wi-Fiers isn't going to overthrow Smogon's tier system.

Tell you what, download Shoddy Battle, make your team of NUs and what have you, and then see how far you can move up the OU Ladder there. Better yet, take your NU team into one of the many tournaments we run on this site. If you can definitively prove that your NUs are better than OUs in these contexts, then maybe we can have a serious discussion.

[DDD v.3]

I just don't think most of that stuff is outweighed by more relevant things. With rain dance, and lets say Kingdra with swift swim, a Lapras would be extremely hard to take down if it has water absorb. Ursaring has one of the most helpful abilities in the game if used with facade, and I would only use an Infernape if using fake out or its priority fighting type move which name escapes me. Flygon just seems useless after Garchomp was introduced. And stealth rock and toxic spikes don't seem worth it, if you could have actually taken out a Pokemon that turn, instead of slightly hurting Pokemon later.

[DDD v.3]

And I don't use exclusively one tier. That is what my point is. Pokemon from all tiers can be blended together to make great teams. I have Pokemon from the all the tiers besides Bl on my team, and it works.

[X-han]

ARandomdude: Yeah except that none of the attackers you mentioned have guts or can get STAB from facade. Pokemon like Lucario and Infernape also make poor physical attackers because 1) their attacks are poor relative to pokemon like Ursaring and 2) their stats are split between attack and Sp Atk, making them poor in other vital areas for an attacker, like speed. Flygon is worse than Garchomp in every way except ability, so I guess that it makes sense that it's in a lower tier (although Garchomp really shouldn't be over used cuz any ice type can one shot it). Finally, stall tactics involving pokemon like Tentacruel have, from my personal experience, been far too slow, risky, and downright ineffective against creative, well thought out team.

Btw, I'm in the same boat as DDD v3 if you couldn't tell.

[Fatecrashers]

Look, arguing about which Pokemon is better with this weather and that move is pointless. Sure it all sounds fine and dandy on paper, but use it against an actual competent competitive battler and see what happens. Like I said, battle on the Shoddy Ladder, battle in Smogon Tournaments, get more experience with the competitive battling side that Smogon has to offer before arguing about Pokemon semantics.

Also, Garchomp is uber here in case you didn't know.

[CPrime]

X-han, did you really say Infernape and Lucario lack Speed? Infernape sits at 108 base speed, and Lucario has access to Swords Dance and Extremespeed. Furthermore, how could you ever say they lack Speed when you're comparing them to Ursaring, who completely maxes out at around 225? Please do some research before blindly posting in a discussion, even if the discussion itself isn't very serious...

[khz]

I laugh at the way you consider stall to be inferior.

Also the way you talk about entry hazards as being redunant makes you seem like the type of person who uses 4 attcking moves.

[SandslashPWNS]

Again, the tiers are based on usage. Although Lapras and Ursaring may have certain niches, heck almost every Pokemon has one, the niches are very conditional, and frankly not used enough to become relevant. Just because a Pokemon is listed in a certain tier, doesn't mean you can't use them in another tier. For example, Donphan is UU, but it can be used in UU, OU, and Ubers. Pokemon can be played in tiers ranked higher than the one they are in, but not used in lower tiers. For example, Infernape is OU, so it can't be used in UU, or NU. Oh, by the way, Garchomp was banned a long time ago from Standard OU play, so that's why Flygon is used. I don't mean to come out as rude or anything, but you should really learn the game more before you argue with people who spend countless hours trying to make the metagame fair and overall more fun and convenient.

P.S. If you don't utilize entry hazards (Spikes, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes) then you must not know much, sorry.

[makiri]

I'm convinced you haven't played Pokemon.

Either way this thread is completely unnecessary.