Kevin Garrett Stall

[Eggbert]

SD breloom, is still without a doubt a threat. The only thing to do is try and take a +1 seed bomb with gyarados and roar it away, because it OHKOs rotom. But that's just one uncommon threat, and most people will just use the spore puncher, which is handled well with rotom/gyarados. Lucario isn't doing much to this team with gyarados and tyranitar alive.

EDIT: @LiverpoolFC I know gyarados survives to roar it away but that's it really. It sets up easily with spore and gyara can't roar it more than once. Breloom also completely walls gyara.

[LiverpoolFC]

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+1 Breloom Seed Bomb vs 248/252+ Gyarados - 59.5% - 70.2%
+1 Breloom Mach Punch vs 248/252+ Gyarados - 15% - 17.6%

More often than not Rocks are spun meaning you'll never ko gyara unless it switches in on a +1 seed bomb already or has signifigant prior damage.
Stone Edge is pointless because if Breloom has stone edge then it lacks seed bomb, so Rotom walls it 100%. 4 moveslot syndrome, the way this team beats most threats also beats SD Breloom.

[Meru]

Originally Posted by Fat Faladran

I don't see how any variant of Lucario could possibly sweep through this team. Hippowdon survives a Jolly +2 Close Combat and KOs back with Earthquake. Gyarados does an excellent job of countering any set, and Lucario won't survive repeated LO recoil and switch-ins into entry hazards. Scarf Tyranitar can easily revenge kill sets that don't run Bullet Punch, which is often the case. I feel that a lot of the "major threats" that people are pointing out can be attributed more accurately to their own misplays than to the team itself.

Jolly +2 LO Close Combat vs 252/4 Hippowdon: 93.1% - 110%

1HKO'd after SR. Did you even read the EVs? This Hippowdon is all specially invested. It's not your normal Hippowdon

Scarf Tyranitar does revenge, but I've had occasions where Lucario runs SD/Crunch/Bullet Punch/CC (which is actually viable because Extremespeed doesn't hit Gengar). Which can suck.

Originally Posted by Fat LiverpoolFC

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+1 Breloom Seed Bomb vs 248/252+ Gyarados - 59.5% - 70.2%
+1 Breloom Mach Punch vs 248/252+ Gyarados - 15% - 17.6%

More often than not Rocks are spun meaning you'll never ko gyara unless it switches in on a +1 seed bomb already or has signifigant prior damage.
Stone Edge is pointless because if Breloom has stone edge then it lacks seed bomb, so Rotom walls it 100%. 4 moveslot syndrome, the way this team beats most threats also beats SD Breloom.

It's not a completely unlikely scenario that rocks are spun away, Gyarados has taken a previous beating, or his sleep talk doesn't select Roar and he gets 2HKO'd. Not to mention after taking that minimum 60%, Gyarados roars and ends up being crippled without even killing Breloom.

I'm not stating this team isn't near perfect, because it is, but I'm just stating the flaws of the team, which is that Gyarados might be overwhelmed with physical threats sometimes. I've considered changing Hippowdon's EVs

Also another nitpicky problem that I've found is bulky SD roost Scizor. You're going to think I'm crazy, but without a fire attack, this Scizor eventually becomes the last pokemon and gets +6 because nothing can do enough damage to beat his Roost. The only way I've found beating this Scizor possible is hoping Rotom-H is still alive at the end and using Thunderbolt to paralyze it so it can be killed within a full paralysis.

Let me reiterate though, this team is still practically perfect. It is an amazing team, really.

[Faladran]

Originally Posted by Fat Meru

Jolly +2 LO Close Combat vs 252/4 Hippowdon: 93.1% - 110%

1HKO'd after SR. Did you even read the EVs? This Hippowdon is all specially invested. It's not your normal Hippowdon

Just ran the calcs. Adamant Lucario's +2 Close Combat deals 93.1% - 110% to specially defensive Hippowdon. Jolly is 85.2% - 100.7%, not to mention that Hippowdon will likely switch into a Swords Dance rather than a boosted Close Combat, meaning that it will gain at least one turn of Leftovers recovery first.

However, that's fairly irrelevant. Gyarados is by far the preferred switch-in to Lucario, if only for its Intimidate ability. I personally can't think of any more changes to make to this team that would increase its effectiveness, as it seems more of a "retirement from 4th gen" team.

[Kevin Garrett]

Originally Posted by Fat Faladran

However, that's fairly irrelevant. Gyarados is by far the preferred switch-in to Lucario, if only for its Intimidate ability. I personally can't think of any more changes to make to this team that would increase its effectiveness, as it seems more of a "retirement from 4th gen" team.

This is pretty much it. I have used this version extensively before Smogon University server was shut down and never had a problem with those hyper offense physical teams. If there is a major problem with them, it's the way it's being played. Gyarados is the preferred switch in for Lucario, even if Hippowdon had max Defense. That still takes a ton of damage. As for Bullet Punch beating Tyranitar, I already mentioned how it can't get past Gyarados even with Stealth Rock in play.

Aside from a very small number of random threats that can give this team problems, the hardest things to deal with are combinations of threats. It's the same for all teams in DPP. The term "team advantage" is thrown around more than it should, but it is a real thing. It is not style x > style y. A bad team advantage is when your opponent has multiple threats that give you little problems on their own, but when combined can be difficult to overcome.

From what I have seen, this team fits my personal style. I have talked to people who have used it or something similar and everyone likes to alter a few things. That's great and means this thread completed its objective. If you find physical threats overwhelming, feel free to use the physical Hippowdon EVs I used for a long time. It is in the description somewhere.

One final note, for Curse Swampert, it's the same as Snorlax and Suicune. You get your entry hazards out and force it to Rest. After it's been phazed in a few times, it won't have a lot of health to work with upon waking up. That's where Tyranitar or something can finish it off. Worst case scenerio is that you are forced to PP stall Curse with Gyarados' Intimidate.