Meloetta

[Machi]

Originally Posted by Fat Electrolyte

Also, as Dragontongue said before, it is quite hard for a not-so-bulky sweeper like MP to set up for 3 turns, just to use a move that has the same effect of relic song. I mean, if you think about it, at +2 Sing still only has a 71% higher probability of sleep. Besides, MP is not really the statusing type; it should just come in, wreck damge, and switch out.

Pretty much this - as has been said earlier in the thread I believe it was Katakiri and from my own experience the only possible boosting move M-P should carry is Relic Song especially since this thread discusses her viability at OU (well this is in the OU section). Meaning that you have to account for the fact that there are very hard hitting mons that will hit M-P on her weaker defense while she is in Aria, even then M-P is not particularly bulky either with only slightly higher Def than Aria. The convenience of boosting with Relic Song is basically to pick off a weakened mon that she outspeeds or at the very least can tank a hit from switch to Pirouette form and proceed to clean up whatever is left of the opponents side, since she doesn't have that much choice in coverage of moves given that two slots are accounted for (Close Combat and Relic Song - the former leading her quite open to revenge kills is why I tend to save Meloetta more as a late game cleaner). Even better is the fact that its relatively easy to pull off Relic Song because many aren't exactly too sure what your Meloetta will run.

Moreover, Fiery your set utilizes Life Orb so add that to the damage she will be taking, because your opponent would have to be pretty bad to leave Meloetta unscathed during those turns of set up (possible Passive damage included), and you've basically have a mon with a very short life span to hardly warrant being viable.

[ChrisTehAwesome]

What about the possibility of using hone claws on a mixed set. So...

Meloetta @ Life Orb
Relic Song
Hone Claws
Thunder
Close Combat

Where the plan is to hone claws for the accuracy, thunder for the paralysis, or switch forms for a +1 CC. Seems kinda gimmicky but might work

[Lord of Bays]

I really don't think Meloetta has any business running a mixed set. Zero whatsoever. Does she have fan-fucking-tastic stats on both ends? Yes, but it's not like Infernape who doesn't need to spend a turn switching between Flamethrower and Close Combat. That turn you spent changing to Aria Forme so you could hit Gyarados with Thunder just let him set up a Sub and a DD and you got swept for your trouble.

[Sewa]

You got the wrong example: Aria Meloetta has enough SpA to outright kill Gyarados. It even dents Skarmory, one of the best Phys walls, while keeping Ttar and pink blobs at bay.

[VaporeonIce]

While I agree that Meloetta going mixed probably isn't the best idea, Relic Song isn't exactly a "free" turn. It's a 75 BP STAB attack, and when Meloetta-A uses it, it's coming off of a base 128 stat. Oh, and it has a 20% chance to put something to sleep.

And, in the situation you mentioned, Meloetta-P can just hit Gyarados with Thunder without changing forme, since even uninvested with a neutral nature, it OHKOs the Sub+DD set after Stealth Rock. The real problems that set has are priority moves and generic walls/bulky Pokeon who aren't weak to either of its moves (Gliscor, Celebi, Landorus-T, Volcarona, and even Metagross, since it has the special bulk to comfortably take a Meloetta-P Thunder). Oh, and Thundurus-T, who isn't even a wall.

Generally, Meloetta should be trying to smash face from either the special side or the physical side, since it doesn't have the coverage to really pull off both (thanks to having to take up a moveslot with Relic Song...Normal typing isn't so good). I'd say its biggest problems are bulky steels who aren't weak to Fighting (Scizor, Metagross, Jirachi), who can take hits from either side well enough, since Meloetta doesn't have a hugely powerful Fire move. Unfortunately for Meloetta, those are really common.

[FIERCEDEITY777]

Do we know if Relic Song still transforms you if it's used against a ghost-type?

[MX42]

To be honest, I see Meloetta going to BL. In UU it will either use CM or Relic Song. CM sets make Meloetta very powerful and bulky, while Relic Song can put a counter to sleep 1/5 of the time. Remembep, Chomp was banned for Sand Veil, which caused moves to miss 1/5 of the time. But Meloetta is simply to weak for OU, as things like Latios and Thunderus T and Keldeo are simply better Special Sweepers. It will probably go to BL and spend some time chillin with Kyurem and wishing to soar with Starapter.

[b2j135]

Originally Posted by Fat MX42

To be honest, I see Meloetta going to BL. In UU it will either use CM or Relic Song. CM sets make Meloetta very powerful and bulky, while Relic Song can put a counter to sleep 1/5 of the time. Remembep, Chomp was banned for Sand Veil, which caused moves to miss 1/5 of the time. But Meloetta is simply to weak for OU, as things like Latios and Thunderus T and Keldeo are simply better Special Sweepers. It will probably go to BL and spend some time chillin with Kyurem and wishing to soar with Starapter.

I agree and as I said before, once it tries to setup Pirouette Forme without any assistance from things like entry hazards or parahax it's gonna have a the HARDEST time staying fast and alive. In UU/BL I won't have that problem as much though.

[Electrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fat b2j135

I agree and as I said before, once it tries to setup Pirouette Forme without any assistance from things like entry hazards or parahax it's gonna have a the HARDEST time staying fast and alive. In UU/BL I won't have that problem as much though.

I don't think Pirouette will become UU. It will be impossible to use if Meloetta A is OU, as you need A in order to get P, and if A isn't allowed then it's impossible to use P. It's going to stay in OU, unless tierers come up with something else.

[Mijzelffan]

Originally Posted by Fat b2j135

In UU/BL I won't have that problem as much though.

You know BL stuff can only be used in OU, right? It would face the exact same problems in BL as it would in OU.

[Death Phenomeno]

So, besides Charge Beam and Relic Song, which other moves are significantly boosted by Serene Grace? Meloetta got the punches from the tutors but besides that, I'm unsure.

Also, this:

[Yonko7]

Its more then coincidence that the Pirouette-Forme has the same base speed as Tornadeus-T.

[UltiMario]

Originally Posted by Fat Yonko7

Its more then coincidence that the Pirouette-Forme has the same base speed as Tornadeus-T.

It's more than coincidence that Meloetta-P would have 7 more base speed points as Tornadus-T

[Lord of Bays]

Originally Posted by Fat Death Phenomeno

So, besides Charge Beam and Relic Song, which other moves are significantly boosted by Serene Grace? Meloetta got the punches from the tutors but besides that, I'm unsure.

Also, this:

It gets Thunder.

[Katakiri]

It begins. I guess I'll abuse some Thunderetta with all this Rain around.

[G-Von]

I hope I'm not the first person to notice that you cannot really use Relic Song when something is already asleep since there is a chance of violating Sleep Clause. So if you're running a physical Meoletta with Relic Song and something is asleep on their team already, its pretty useless. btw, Golurk laughs at it.

[Katakiri]

You're not. There was even a discussion on the previous page.

[Clafairy]

Originally Posted by Fat G-Von

I hope I'm not the first person to notice that you cannot really use Relic Song when something is already asleep since there is a chance of violating Sleep Clause. So if you're running a physical Meoletta with Relic Song and something is asleep on their team already, its pretty useless. btw, Golurk laughs at it.

Do PO and PS block the move itself in that situation? Because I thought i heard some were that they were gonna make it so that they would block the Sleep Effect once the sleep clause was in effect, but you could still use the move to transform and do damage. I could be wrong though.

Or are you talking about Wi-fi?

[G-Von]

Originally Posted by Fat Clafairy

Do PO and PS block the move itself in that situation? Because I thought i heard some were that they were gonna make it so that they would block the Sleep Effect once the sleep clause was in effect, but you could still use the move to transform and do damage. I could be wrong though.

Or are you talking about Wi-fi?

Just in general, wi-fi, PO, or PS. If what you're saying is true, then the sleep clause thing is only worried about on wi-fi.

[Scarfwynaut]

Unless I am mistaken, which I may be, you can use it all you want even after you sleep something, like in RBY with Blizzard spam, but the second you sleep something again by chance, you immediately forfeit the game (you decided to take the chance to break the sleep clause). Again I may be mistaken, but the old language of of freeze clause seems to suggest this.

[G-Von]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Unless I am mistaken, which I may be, you can use it all you want even after you sleep something, like in RBY with Blizzard spam, but the second you sleep something again by chance, you immediately forfeit the game (you decided to take the chance to break the sleep clause). Again I may be mistaken, but the old language of of freeze clause seems to suggest this.

Yea exactly. You can take the chance of using it, but if you do make something fall asleep while they already have a pokemon asleep, then its game over.

[Thaldios]

Originally Posted by Fat G-Von

Yea exactly. You can take the chance of using it, but if you do make something fall asleep while they already have a pokemon asleep, then its game over.

That is, if you put that Pokemon to sleep. If it Rested and hasn't woken up, Relic Song can still put something asleep, and you'll be fine.

[SkyNet]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Unless I am mistaken, which I may be, you can use it all you want even after you sleep something, like in RBY with Blizzard spam, but the second you sleep something again by chance, you immediately forfeit the game (you decided to take the chance to break the sleep clause). Again I may be mistaken, but the old language of of freeze clause seems to suggest this.

Freeze clause prevented a 2nd pokemon from getting frozen, so you could spam blizzard all you wanted after. It would seem logical the sleep clause on PO and SD work in a similar way.

[CrackinSkulls]

Just wanted to say that the way i see the whole relic song thing is like Volt-Turning between 1 pokemon which can be a great way to grab momentum. Granted you need some prediction and skill but i can see it as a great wallbreaker and a very tough pokemon to deal with. I honestly don't think the mixed set is completely outrageous the only problem i see is a lack of recovery and 4 move syndrome but i still think that it will be effective given the right support and played well.

[ThisMysteriousGuy]

So I tried out Meloetta today with two sets I made that really haven't been talked about much: Sub CM and Chestorest. Both worked quite nicely and I felt they deserve some mention. Do note that I've never invented my own sets before so they probably have some problems:

Sub CM:
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SAtk / 120 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Focus Blast

Because Meloetta falls prey to status, a Sub CM set is viable to prevent Meloetta from being affected so easily by Thunder Wave and Toxic. This set just needs a boost or two and can break some slower attackers like Ttar

Calm Mind and Substitute are the crux of the set. Psyshock is recommended so Meloetta can deal with Special Walls like Blissey and Jellicent as well as letting it deal with opposing CMers like Reuniculus and Suicune. Psychic is always an option if you want more power or you want a better way to deal with Gliscor. Focus Blast is used in the last slot, due to the fact that it gives necessary coverage to beat steel and dark types who would otherwise wall this set. Leftovers are used over Life Orb so Meloetta can set up multiple Subs.

The EVs can be changed around as you want, but 252 HP is necessary to make 101 HP subs, which will prevent it from being instantly broken by Seismic Toss. At least 120 Speed puts you at 246+ speed, which is needed to outspeed the many supporters that run 245 speed, as well as all Ttars besides Scarf. The remaining EVs are in Sp Atk, which, alongside a Modest nature, guarantee KOs on all Ttars bar Sp Defensive after one CM, though Sp Defensive is KOed after a layer of Spikes or Stealth Rock, which isn't as easy to accomplish with a 252/4/252 Timid spread.


ChestoRest:
Meloetta @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Rest
- Focus Blast

Unlike the other set, this set involves gaining multiple boosts, becoming very bulky and powerful, Rest of any damage and Status, and then destroy the foe. It's no ChestoRest Volcarona, though Meloetta's bulk can help allieviate the issue of not outspeeding many mons.

Calm Mind, Rest, and the Chesto Berry are the crux of the set. The attacking moveset is the same as the last set.

In order to obtain a lot of boosts, heavy investment in Defense is needed so Meloetta can take at least a few hits. Since Meloetta has Rest, it's not as crucial to outspeed supporters, though some Ttars can still outspeed this set without a scarf.


And about the tiering of Meloetta: I don't feel Meloetta is exactly OU material due to technically being outclassed by other Psychic OU mons, yet I feel Meloetta will be a bit too strong for UU, though I never tested it in UU. I'd say Meloetta will probably be BL.