Volcarona

[Raikaria]

@ above: Ninjask dosen't switch in, it's a lead.

But, yes, Ho-Oh is Uber, despite Stealth Rock, so SR won't nessacerily keep this thing out of OU, or even Ubers. All it needs to do is switch in on something that dosen't like it, even if it's after a KO, set upo Butterfly Dance, and you're away.

You won't even need LO with it's power, you can easily run Lefties to restore lost HP from Stealth Rock.

Speaking of, remember SR is not a TM in 5th gen, which means people will have to decide between losing 5th Gen egg moves/Dream World things, and Stealth Rock, not to mention Spinning is easier due to the Aiming Horn, which renders Spinblockers null and void.

Short Version: The 5th Gen is clearly not going to be as SR central as the 4th. It's a lot easier to remove rocks, and there's significant downsides to setting them up [Loss of Dream World, and 5th Gen Egg moves]

Due to this, either this monster will be top-teir OU, or, it'll make Ubers.

[Blitzenith]

Please stop spreading that rumor. Aiming Mark does not make unblockable Rapid Spins. The mechanics of the item are unknown, but both GameFAQs users and the Moderator Stellar have tested it and found it does not allow for unblockable Rapid Spins.

Furthermore, Urgamoth is nowhere near Ho-Oh in terms of stats. Plus, it does not have Roost or Recover to shake off damage, nor does it have a move like Sacred Fire. While they are both 4x Rock weak Fire Sweepers, that's about where the similarities end.

[Rising_Dusk]

I think SR will still be everywhere in Gen V's metagame. Despite that, I feel like it will become easier to spin simply by virtue of two things: Rotom-A isn't Ghost-type anymore and the best new Ghost-types are easily capitalized on by offensive spinners. Starmie, for instance, can take advantage of Burunkeru, Shandaraa, and Goruggo with one simple set. With Rotom-A losing its Ghost typing, it can't spinblock any more, so people will have to turn to the other Pokemon that can do the job.

For this reason, I suspect that supporting a Pokemon like Urugamosa in battle will be a lot easier than we currently anticipate. If you can keep rocks away, though, this thing really is a powerful and deadly sweeper.

[Corrupted]

People are seriously underestimating how fucking insane Butterfly is paired up with this guy. Resistance to priority moves (bar aqua jet) high stats and simply wonderful defensive typing. Stop blowing SR out of proportion. Taunt lead + rapid spinner will prevent it ruining him if you play your cards right. He's really good.

And he also gets morning sun, a cool 66% under sun. useful?

[TheNewOne]

I am soooooo excited for this guy
Ninetales with Drought + Urugamosu + Entei who now has Flare Blitz/Arcanine who now has Close Combat and lots of other improvements to fires
Sun teams will be a lot more viable now and SR or no I’m going to make an effort to incorporate this guy into my teams

[Omnipresent]

Originally Posted by Fat Heracr055

I agree that this particular Pokemon is awesome, and I love the Bug type, so I like to see new representatives emerge. However, I think I have to disagree with it being "the next Heatran" due to the fact that, while a Ground type weakness was a huge problem, it didn't have to put up with the huge crippling by Stealth Rock. If Stealth Rock maintains a high profile in the Gen V metagame, teams will either have to be extremely reliant on their spinners to guarantee Butterfly Dance set up/sweepage, or else it will be made quick work of.

That, and steel typing resisting many things and having an immunity to poison is always a huge plus.

[Garganator]

I think SR will still be everywhere in Gen V's metagame. Despite that, I feel like it will become easier to spin simply by virtue of two things: Rotom-A isn't Ghost-type anymore and the best new Ghost-types are easily capitalized on by offensive spinners. Starmie, for instance, can take advantage of Burunkeru, Shandaraa, and Goruggo with one simple set. With Rotom-A losing its Ghost typing, it can't spinblock any more, so people will have to turn to the other Pokemon that can do the job.

For this reason, I suspect that supporting a Pokemon like Urugamosa in battle will be a lot easier than we currently anticipate. If you can keep rocks away, though, this thing really is a powerful and deadly sweeper.

Really good points, Rising and I can't argue with them. It's so true that Starmie hits so many Ghost for SE damage this Gen, making spinblocking for ghosts quite hard decision - Try to spin block or die to SE move. I think this situation ironically may help totally forgotten ghost - Dusknoir. For first, it's bulky as hell, for second it takes neutral hits from all popular on Starmie attacks, which it may dish out. Just invest enough special defense EVs to avoid 2OHKO from Hydro Pump and it's quite reliable if you may provide it Wish support (Blissey is best choice here).

If Sandstorm is up (or even without it, as you outspeed most defensive ghosts) you may go with Swords Dance + Shadow Claw combination on Doryuuzu (and with this beastly attack after Swords Dance, it won't be really hard) and just Rapid Spin with Doryuuzu later. If you hate wasting moveslots on Doryuuzu and you still want Rapid Spin for example on your Sandstorm team, go with Sandslash. Sandslash right now has THE SAME ability as Doryuuzu and gains +2 speed boost under Sandstorm. When I think about it Mold Breaker Doryuuzu + SD speedy Sandslash sounds like an interesting combo to abuse. Situation is really similar here with Rapid SD Kabutops, so I won't continue with this (when you use Rain Dance teams).

But on topic of Urugamosu. I personally love this Pokemon. For first, it has cool design. but mostly it has right statistics in right place. Perfect special attack, good speed and mostly this neat access to Butterfly dance. And with this typing, which has easy time to find free turn and resistances to many priority attack, Urugamosu will be deadly. Just keep SR of the field and good Blissey lure. After this I think that every player will be pleased with the results.

[TheMrBassdude]

What about partnering him up with Drought Ninetails? Give him Butterfly Dance, Bug Buzz, Flamethrower/Fireblast/Fire Dance, and either Morning Sun or Wind Storm, depending on how common SR proves to be. That seems to me to be the best way to run him, assuming Drought Ninetails doesn't get bumped to Ubers (and I just don't see that happening, even with so much new stuff being weather-based. Ninetails and Politoad just wouldn't cut it in Ubers)

[Corrupted]

He doesn't even need sun. A Urgamos at 100% and +1/+1/+1 is ridiculously hard to counter and even harder to revenge.

[Rising_Dusk]

I mentioned in the OP that I definitely feel Drought Ninetales will help Urugamosu tremendously. Urugamosu is basically the best non-Grass sunny day sweeper that exists with Butterfly Dance, STAB Fire-type attacks, Wind Storm, and Morning Sun. Even bulky Water-type Pokemon are cleanly 2HKOed by Fire Blast in the sun, which says something.

Originally Posted by Fat Garganator

If Sandstorm is up (or even without it, as you outspeed most defensive ghosts) you may go with Swords Dance + Shadow Claw combination on Doryuuzu (and with this beastly attack after Swords Dance, it won't be really hard) and just Rapid Spin with Doryuuzu later. If you hate wasting moveslots on Doryuuzu and you still want Rapid Spin for example on your Sandstorm team, go with Sandslash. Sandslash right now has THE SAME ability as Doryuuzu and gains +2 speed boost under Sandstorm. When I think about it Mold Breaker Doryuuzu + SD speedy Sandslash sounds like an interesting combo to abuse. Situation is really similar here with Rapid SD Kabutops, so I won't continue with this (when you use Rain Dance teams).

I think Doryuuzu is a much better choice for teammate if you're not running Urugamosu in sunny conditions. The ability to Rapid Spin, a 4x resistance to Rock-type attacks, and an immense offensive presence make him such a great teammate. That Doryuuzu happens to have difficulty getting through the likes of Skarmory and Levitators that Urugamosu sets up on is an added bonus for their synergy.

[black_cotton]

@offensive teammates to partner, discussion: kabutops looks like a decent option as well, since it resist rock, can threaten other rock types with a stab water move, can rapid spin and set up it's on stealth rock ,everything with one set, while urugamosu will gladly switch into grass moves aimed at kabutops and also bullet and mach punch.

[TheMrBassdude]

He doesn't need it, per-say, but he would definetley benefit from a 66% healing move, a base 120, 100% accuracy flying move and a boost to one of his STABs. Just an option, but you're right. I'm sure he can function well enough without it

[Corrupted]

kabutops doesn't resist rock, has crap defences and no recovery

[Corrupted]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMrBassdude

He doesn't need it, per-say, but he would definetley benefit from a 66% healing move, a base 120, 100% accuracy flying move and a boost to one of his STABs. Just an option, but you're right. I'm sure he can function well enough without it

even in the sun i wouldn't run gale/windstorm because the coverage is very bad. healing is cool yes but hp ground for shanderaa/heatran is essential

[Blood Tears]

Wow, really interesting Pokémon. As someone has already said, Spin blocking will be probably much more difficult. Butterfly Dance is definitely the best power-upping move, a sort of a special dragon dance which boosts spdef too. Which are the Pokémon that can learn it?
EDIT: ok found the thread, Urugamosu is surely the best of them

[lucariojr]

I have little to say competitively about this guy, other than Hitmontop would be a cool partner, being able to Spin away SR and checking Rock types (sometimes even countering them) with priority moves, Close Combat and Intimidate.

I love the design, I'm wondering what bug he's based on, and where do I get him? I'm running through White Nuzlocke style and I need a Fire type because I missed out on 'Durma apparently on route 4, and I would love this bug forever. :3

[TheMrBassdude]

I'm not sure exactly where, but I heard you find him alone in a cave at level 70, Lengendary-style. that being said, he's also suppossed to evolve from something else at 59

[norelationstojfk]

I really hated this thing at first, simply because it looked weird, but as I looked at it more, I started to fall in love with it. And now, I'm admiring it's potential as a sweeper. Hello to Butterfly Dance :) I can already see myself building a team with a Dragon Dancer AND Butterfly Dancer.

[Panthera]

I just said it in another thread, but this thing is going to be intense if you can keep Stealth Rock away. An awful lot of faster Scarfed revenge killers (Starmie, Latias, Gengar) are special based, and might struggle to break its impressive special durability (85 HP and 105 SpD is pretty decent even before the +1 boost), and Starmie and Latias eat super effective STAB Bug Buzz in return. Jirachi only speed ties so that's awfully risky, and with HP Ice the same applies to Salamence. Chomp seems like one of the few effective revenge killers for it, so if you can clear out Blissey and Chomp (easier said than done but still) before hand you're pretty set, especially given it resists Bullet Punch and Mach Punch.

[Thee]

Originally Posted by Fat Rising_Dusk

Your analysis is strong, but you've got to realize that this thing hits harder than Choice Specs Heatran after a single Butterfly Dance. Did I mention that it also is more specially bulky and faster by leaps and bounds? With one turn setup, it becomes an amazing sweeper, and it definitely gets opportunities to setup with a neutrality to Ground and a 4x resistance to Grass. If you manage to get this out in the sun too, which is likely considering that Ninetales got Drought, it will utterly destroy things.

I'm pretty sure that it will fare well at the very least in whatever metagame Gen V churns out.

Meh, it was my first analysis, and I thought I screwed up. Either way, I don't really care.
Personally, I'm trying to lower people's expectation of this guy. This is an entirely new metagame, and I want to give it a fresh start, hence me not advertising the power of it before we actually see the metagame in full.

The most effective thing Urgamoth can do is sweep, by either set up or by coverage and item. This makes it rather unexpected, but does not change the power.

Also I am ignorant to stat boosts, so I didn't know that it could hit as hard as choice specs. All I know is the percentage damage done (from battles), and that each stat up is an increase of 1/2 of the stat.

Since stealth rock can no longer be easily spun, I suppose the amount of people using this guy will be lowered. I do see a good partner in Dugtrio, which can now trap Rotom--but not be able to hit many other ghosts. Starmie, the New Mole, and Donphan are looking solid as partners considering thier ability to hit the ghosts hard and rapid spin.

The defenses are good, but it suffers a problem--most notably, the huge stats gifted upon many new pokemon. That does decrease the viability of the set.

Also, I heard a rumor that Magic Coat can reflect stealth rock. It is just a random rumor, so don't believe it just yet. Magic Coat itself is a hard move to use correctly, but I thought I might as well bring it up, in case anyone wants to find out.


Does anyone note that Urgamoth is around the same position as Rotom (after all non legends, before all legends)? And it also is exclusive to battle by a talk-to event. What do you think this potentially means for Urgamoth? It is pretty obvious there is someething special about it, from the fact that the Champion uses it, to the fact that Bugs are enormously supported this gen (This guy, many bugs, and our first bug legendary).

So basically, I think we should focus on how to use Urgamoth effectively, and what can stop it. Obviously, special walls take it, but to what extent? How effectively can it win games? There are a lot of questions we can still ask about this pokemon.

[outrageousdragondancer]

BellyZard was a lead in OU effective against the various steel leads and whatnot in OU.
It's impossible to say how much leads will focus on entry hazards this Gen, but it is always an idea to bypass SR by using Urugamosu as a lead.

[Thee]

Originally Posted by Fat outrageousdragondancer

BellyZard was a lead in OU effective against the various steel leads and whatnot in OU.
It's impossible to say how much leads will focus on entry hazards this Gen, but it is always an idea to bypass SR by using Urugamosu as a lead.

It is still too early to confirm the effectiveness of such a set. We don't know walls, threats, etc, and it is difficult to set up anything against most leads. I have personally considered the option before, and I think we will just have to wait and see.

[Garganator]

kabutops doesn't resist rock, has crap defences and no recovery

Obviously I meant OFFENSIVE synergy, not defensive one. For first, Kabutops can work outside of Rain, especially when you run Aqua Jet (and with all those Fire types, Aqua Jet is more then good idea). Just think about it - Kabutops gains 1,5x special defense boost in Sandstorm (helping him to take weaker special hits), while if you run Jolly Nature you gain check to Rain teams, which honestly have advantage over Sandstorm (as many SS Pokes are weak to water), as for example most Kabutops under rain run Adamant nature for additional power. You outspeed them and hit hard them back. In some dangerous situations Kabutops like this may save you, while still keeping solid speed, STAB priority and massive power (+2 115 base attack isn't a joke). And there's one more thing - Kabutops bait Bulky Waters like Honey baits bears. +2 Stone Edge dent most of them really hard, leaving them weakened enough for Urugamosu to have free sweep, as in some situations bulky waters may stop it. For me synergy is good and Rapid Spin is quite unexpected on Kabutops, so probably will easily spin any SR away.

So basically, I think we should focus on how to use Urgamoth effectively, and what can stop it. Obviously, special walls take it, but to what extent? How effectively can it win games? There are a lot of questions we can still ask about this pokemon.

By the way I tested some damage calculation with +1 Fire Blast Urugamosu under sun vs Max HP/Max Def Blissey.

48.88% -> 57.70%

100% to 2OHKO with SR up and this is WITHOUT Life Orb ;). So in other words you may run Lum Berry, take any status Blissey throw at you (as paralysis/poison will stop Urugamosu without bigger problems) and 2OHKO Blissey back. Damage rises to 63.59% -> 74.93% with Life Orb, which is beastly number. One good Pursuiter (Metagross may be quite good, as it easily resists Rock attacks aimed on Urugamosu) and Blissey is in KO range.

Probably if we look for specialised counters, it's worth to mention Moltres. For first, x2 Fire resistance, x4 bug one and immunity to HP Ground makes it a pretty solid counter when invested. Thick Fat Snorlax also is a decent check/counter, but it needs defensive investment, as +1 Fire Blast under sun with Life Orb deals 47.07% -> 55.53% to 4 HP/252 SpD neutral Snorlax (standard Choice Band). However there's a good news - Snorlax isn't 2OHKOed by Lum Berry version, so you may still switch in, hit on unboosted physical defense really hard and beat it 1on1. Just don't switch directly on boosted Fire Blast if opponents use it instead of Lum Berry one and Snorlax is pretty much perfect.

[OldSchoolNub]

Originally Posted by Fat Rising_Dusk

I mentioned in the OP that I definitely feel Drought Ninetales will help Urugamosu tremendously. Urugamosu is basically the best non-Grass sunny day sweeper that exists with Butterfly Dance, STAB Fire-type attacks, Wind Storm, and Morning Sun. Even bulky Water-type Pokemon are cleanly 2HKOed by Fire Blast in the sun, which says something.

I think Doryuuzu is a much better choice for teammate if you're not running Urugamosu in sunny conditions. The ability to Rapid Spin, a 4x resistance to Rock-type attacks, and an immense offensive presence make him such a great teammate. That Doryuuzu happens to have difficulty getting through the likes of Skarmory and Levitators that Urugamosu sets up on is an added bonus for their synergy.

Honestly, I could even see Doryuuzu working on a Drought team too. One of the biggest threats to such a team is obviously Stealth Rock, and Dory can Rapid Spin as well as Shadow Claw a variety of ghosts that try to block it. Another major threat is other weather such as Sandstorm or Hail, and Dory does very well in the former while packing Rock Slide for those who might take advantage of the latter.

[Sphyxius]

Originally Posted by Fat Garganator

Probably if we look for specialised counters, it's worth to mention Moltres. For first, x2 Fire resistance, x4 bug one and immunity to HP Ground makes it a pretty solid counter when invested.

Agreed, and I think most of Urugamoth's worst nightmares are going to be its fellow Fire types... tons of Fire dual-types have quad bug resistances and already resist fire, sometimes even immune to it a la flash fire.

On a side note... according to Serebii's news updates Urugamoth is actually caught in-game at level 70, but then after that you get an egg with its unevolved form? lolwut