Zoroark

[TheMrBassdude]

Originally Posted by Fat UncivilYoshi

I can assure you he does NOT copy the 2nd member of your team, not always anyway.

Suicune was the 6th pokemon in my party, you can check and see at the start of the video my pokemon order.
Clearly Scizor was 2nd.

Also lol @ other site.

Is there any chance he was 5th in your party at the beginning of the battle? If so, then it would give him the appearence of the pokemon directly after it at the beginning of the battle, which could prove to be even more valuble. If not, it's random, and we're screwed

[Slipperjeans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6YHrJZyfM

I just recorded a test of Illusion.

It takes the appearence of the CURRENT last Poké in your party. Be aware that ingame your party order is changed during a battle to accommodate switches.

[UncivilYoshi]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMrBassdude

Is there any chance he was 5th in your party at the beginning of the battle? If so, then it would give him the appearence of the pokemon directly after it at the beginning of the battle, which could prove to be even more valuble. If not, it's random, and we're screwed

He was my lead, acctually.

[Thorhammer]

What exactly happened when he reverted back to his original appearance? It would be useful to figure out what triggers that.

[NDenizen]

Originally Posted by Fat Slipperjeans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6YHrJZyfM

I just recorded a test of Illusion.

It takes the appearence of the CURRENT last Poké in your party. Be aware that ingame your party order is changed during a battle to accommodate switches.

So, let's get this straight.

1 - The Pokemon it disguises itself as the LAST pokemon in the party, and no other slots?
2 - In-game slot changing does affect Zoruark's illusion should it come out mid-game.

Well, that's pretty cool. Surely if the pokemon you want copied is last in your party, then you don't have much to be concerned about. Unless you actually USE the last pokemon, it's going to stay there, right?

(Here's a video of a competitive online match - Zoruark pops up disguised as Suicune partway through - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb1PWKLMK9U)

[UncivilYoshi]

Originally Posted by Fat NDenizen

So, let's get this straight.

1 - The Pokemon it disguises itself is the LAST pokemon in the party, and no other slots?
2 - In-game slot changing does affect Zoruark's illusion should it come out mid-game.

Well, that's pretty cool. Surely if the pokemon you want copied is last in your party, then you don't have much to be concerned about. Unless you actually USE the last pokemon, it's going to stay there, right?

Yes, if you do what i did in my video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb1PWKLMK9U
I obviously didn't mean to have him take on suicune, but it turned out that way, so i just went along with it and continued to use his disguise.

But as long as you don't send out your sixth, you'll be fine.

[Slipperjeans]

Originally Posted by Fat NDenizen

So, let's get this straight.

1 - The Pokemon it disguises itself is the LAST pokemon in the party, and no other slots?
2 - In-game slot changing does affect Zoruark's illusion should it come out mid-game.

Well, that's pretty cool. Surely if the pokemon you want copied is last in your party, then you don't have much to be concerned about. Unless you actually USE the last pokemon, it's going to stay there, right?

Right.


@Thorhammer: sorry, I didn't test this as coyotte508 (PO maker) already had this information. But as he told me, only attacks revert him back. Must damage him. Hazards don't count.

[NDenizen]

Originally Posted by Fat UncivilYoshi

Yes, if you do what i did in my video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb1PWKLMK9U
I obviously didn't mean to have him take on suicune, but it turned out that way, so i just went along with it and continued to use his disguise.

But as long as you don't send out your sixth, you'll be fine.

Oh wow, turns out that was YOUR video I just edited in. How did you get more than five characters in your nickname?

What's really exciting to see is that status moves like Will-O-Wisp don't break the illusion. And Slipperjeans says Hazard moves don't either - this gives Stealth Rock some use in being able to spot when the damage it does mismatches the typing of the pokemon in front of you.

[UncivilYoshi]

Originally Posted by Fat NDenizen

Oh wow, turns out that was YOUR video I just edited in. How did you get more than five characters in your nickname?

What's really exciting to see is that status moves like Will-O-Wisp don't break the illusion. And Slipperjeans says Hazard moves don't either - this gives Stealth Rock some use in being able to spot that when damage done doesn't match up the pokemon in front of you.

I used a Sav like program, its almost like sav, just worse.

Also, it doesn't break with entry hazards, my opponent also used SR, and it didn't change him back into his origional form.

[Thorhammer]

Originally Posted by Fat NDenizen

What's really exciting to see is that status moves like Will-O-Wisp don't break the illusion. And Slipperjeans says Hazard moves don't either - this gives Stealth Rock some use in being able to spot when the damage it does mismatches the typing of the pokemon in front of you.

Again, the only way that can happen is if the Pokemon isn't neutral to Rock. Which matters, but it's possible to control.

Spikes and Toxic Spikes could be a problem if it's trying to copy something like Gengar, though.

[Slipperjeans]

Originally Posted by Fat Thorhammer

Again, the only way that can happen is if the Pokemon isn't neutral to Rock. Which matters, but it's possible to control.

Spikes and Toxic Spikes could be a problem if it's trying to copy something like Gengar, though.

Also abilities like Pressure and Mold Breaker that the disguise would normally have and the lack of its messages.

However, if the foe is distracted, he won't notice these changes

[UncivilYoshi]

Originally Posted by Fat Slipperjeans

Also abilities like Pressure and Mold Breaker that the disguise would normally have and the lack of its messages.

However, if the foe is distracted, he won't notice these changes

That, and the pokemon usually have another viable ability, Ex; Water Absorb on suicune.

[TheLegendary35]

Holy... is that really the shiny form?!

[Mewcario]

There seems to be a few moves that Zoroark knows that are missing from your list. These moves can be found on Serebii and Veekun: Trickery (Level learned) and Incinerate (TM). Trickery is used, according to the description text, as an answer to heavy physical powerhouses. Incinerate does low damage but destroys whatever berry your opponent is holding, a boon against salac-holders.

http://serebii.net/pokedex-bw/571.shtml

[Jhonny]

There's a thread on here talking about how in all wi-fi matches you get to have a look at your opponents team before the match? Is this confirmed, and if so how shitty does that make Zoark?

[bubbly]

I would actually love to run a Memento set on it, or at least a set with Memento incorporated (e.g. instead of Flamethrower in the Nasty Plot set). The way this metagame is shaping up having a free turn for a sweeper could be invaluable (e.g. Butterfly Dance moth thing).

[Subzer0]

Originally Posted by Fat Lee

Illusion seems to have the potential for some incredible mind-games. I'll hold off theorymonning a hundred different uses for it until we know exactly how it works though.

Beyond that, unfortunately, Zoroark seems to be a forgettable Pokemon. His movepool just doesn't match up well enough with his stats, all of his attacks are fairly low BP, his physical Atk stat seems to be quite wasted, poor typing both offensively and defensively, frail as hell. His success depends entirely on Illusion imo...if you can bluff well and fool the opponent then he has the capacity to cause serious damage to the opponent in a way different from anything we've seen. KotW mentioned Gengar as an 'Illusion Partner' and although that works great typewise they do share quite similar counters (Blissey, Snorlax, that kind of thing). Perhaps something like I dunno...Choice Specs Zoroark + Machamp. When the opponent sees Machamp, they're sure as hell not going to go to Blissey...they're much more likely to go to a Ghost, a bulky Psychic or a general physical wall with high Def and low SpD. Firing off a Choice Specs Dark Pulse in this scenario would be very rewarding, potentially KOing and at very least crippling an important member of the opponents team (and leaving the way clear for Machamp to capitalise on the removal of his opponent's counter/check).

This was what I was thinking too, after thinking about his Illusion ability. Have it disgusied as a Fighting type. They almost always lure in Ghost and Psychics. Things like Machamp and Infernape are good illusions. Infernape can draw in things like the candle, that bulky Water/Ghost, latias, and Starmie. All who are weak to Dark and be OHKO by specs Dark Pulse. You could also try Nasty Plot to try for a sweep.

Very interesting Pokemon indeed.

Infernape could be a good illusion. Draws in things like the candle, Bulky water/ghost, Latias, and starmie. that would all be ohko by specs dark pulse. Nasty plot could work too.

[Lee]

Yeah.

When I posted that I didn't consider the whole SR thing. Machamp resists SR so an observant opponent will know straight away that it's not who it appears to be. With that in mind, Infernape/Blaziken is a better illusion.

[Max Fightmaster]

Originally Posted by Fat Jhonny

There's a thread on here talking about how in all wi-fi matches you get to have a look at your opponents team before the match? Is this confirmed, and if so how shitty does that make Zoark?

Seeing as you can also switch the order in which pokemon are in the party before the battle, you could possibly switch the pokemon in the 2nd (or last, whichever it is I guess) and then switch the pokemon Zoroark shifts into. Although yes, it does hurt the pokemon a little.

Anyway, I'm really interested to see how Zoroark plays out, especially since it has Nasty Plot and Illusion. I can see that working phenomenally for it.

[WarriorPrince]

If it weren't for the pre-match Pokemon revealing, Zoroark would be a force to be reckoned with. What was gamefreak thinking??

Pretending to be Scizor could get you quite a few switches, you have U-Turn to take the pretending to the next level but his U-Turn is rather weak.

[NDenizen]

The problem with Nasty Plot is it seems like a Zoruark move. If you stuck yourself behind something that uses Calm Mind, people would be less suspecting.

[breh]

Originally Posted by Fat WarriorPrince

If it weren't for the pre-match Pokemon revealing, Zoroark would be a force to be reckoned with. What was gamefreak thinking??

There's a thread on here talking about how in all wi-fi matches you get to have a look at your opponents team before the match? Is this confirmed, and if so how shitty does that make Zoark?

C'mon guys, actually read the thread before you post about it.

It goes for random battles ONLY. I believe a mod even bosted this in like size 7 font on that thread, lol; how the hell do you miss that?

[M BLADE]

Espeon (who now gets Magic Mirror) can be a good illusion partner for Zoroark.
You can lure things like ScarfTar out, and take them out as they Pursuit for laughable damage.
Then use Espeon to reflect most things back at the opponent.

And create a spiral of confusion since the opponent needs to deal with 2 fast, hard hitting opponets that have somewhat good synergy between them.

Too bad the defenses are so sucky <_<

[NDenizen]

Originally Posted by Fat M BLADE

Espeon (who now gets Magic Mirror) can be a good illusion partner for Zoroark.
You can lure things like ScarfTar out, and take them out as they Pursuit for laughable damage.
Then use Espeon to reflect most things back at the opponent.

And create a spiral of confusion since the opponent needs to deal with 2 fast, hard hitting opponets that have somewhat good synergy between them.

Too bad the defenses are so sucky <_<

On that note, you could use the illusion, and to an extent Stealth Rock and other hazards, to your own advantage.

Bring out Zoruark disguised as Starmie or Doryuuzu, the opponent switches to their "spinblocker" expecting the obvious and you blast it with a Dark Pulse, probably KOing them, wasting an opponents turn and probably leaving their team open for the actual Spinner to come in unopposed.

I...I love Zoruark. The potential to completely screw over your opponents attempts at prediction are great. I think i'm going to run an actual Gengar with Dark Pulse too, just to see how the opponent reacts.

[WarriorPrince]

Originally Posted by Fat Breludicolo

C'mon guys, actually read the thread before you post about it.

It goes for random battles ONLY. I believe a mod even bosted this in like size 7 font on that thread, lol; how the hell do you miss that?

Um, Could i get a link please???

How the hell do you miss that??

I've read the OP several times and see nothing in size 7. In fact, he says he believes it to be for every wifi matches, even Friend Code matches. Throughout the thread, other mods have supported that idea as well.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79432

In addition, the research thread doesn't even speak of it in the OP. If it's so hard to miss, find it and give me the link. You could have at least given proof before being a chump about it. We'll actually you couldn't because there is any yet, and if there was you coulda approached me differently. I mean, WTF, really?

There are videos that prove it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn3ZV4qwzMU&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3qTLsL1NM0