Salamence - Page 10

thatgirl · Feb 20th, 2011, 12:59:41 AM

All this talk about Mence falling to UU is ridiculous. Dragonite was severly outclassed for the longest time in Gen4, but he never fell to UU.

Destiny Warrior · Feb 20th, 2011, 1:48:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat thatgirl

All this talk about Mence falling to UU is ridiculous. Dragonite was severly outclassed for the longest time in Gen4, but he never fell to UU.

Electivire didn't fall to UU. Would you call it an important, gamechanging threat?

IcyMan28 · Feb 20th, 2011, 2:56:22 AM

Mence may have "lost" quite a bit, but it is still quite viable, especially this meta with the rain lost. It is the best option if you need a Dragon Dancer, and ScarfChomp has declined in use quite a bit. The flying type + intimidate helps against fighting-types as well, and it pulls off a great mixed DD set. Disregard it at your peril.

Destiny Warrior · Feb 20th, 2011, 4:41:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

Mence may have "lost" quite a bit, but it is still quite viable, especially this meta with the rain lost. It is the best option if you need a Dragon Dancer, and ScarfChomp has declined in use quite a bit. The flying type + intimidate helps against fighting-types as well, and it pulls off a great mixed DD set. Disregard it at your peril.

This is a lot more fair judgement of Salamence. The problem with Mence is not that its too weak, its that people kind of forget to sue it because of all the powerful things running around. That's why its possible it'll go to UU, because people forget it, rather than it being too weak.

IcyMan28 · Feb 20th, 2011, 4:54:40 AM

Exactly. I'm actually kind of hoping no one remembers Mence, as the DD / Fire Blast / DM / Outrage set is great. Mence has not been left behind at all as far as offense goes.

gabezj · Feb 20th, 2011, 10:33:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Destiny Warrior

Electivire didn't fall to UU. Would you call it an important, gamechanging threat?

I dont think ive ever seen an electivire besides just once or twice, how was it ever used enough to be OU? Anyway, Salamence wont be going to UU, after a dragon dance he out speeds both scarf hydreigon and latios, two big threats. he also still has great attacking stats and an amazing movepool.

JSND · Feb 21st, 2011, 6:06:18 AM

This gen everyone forget that almost everything that keep mence OU in DP return.
We have Garchomp, Pory2 IMPROVEEDDDDDDD, and some shit that can take his attacks.

But i think saying UU isnt to crazy. I mean, lets say terakion become UU(like PO server no offend just an example). The reason things become UU or OU is something is not used much(usualy as of now from lack of development) and everyone judge it to be bad and not using it enough time. What bad from this is the fact that if something is legitimatelly a Top OU threats but is UU, it might happen that most are blinded that that thing is not broken because yeah on that tier the top threats is HIS counter(this is what exactly happen to terrakion on beta server.) while OU cant handle him as well as "UU".

TM13IceBeam · Feb 21st, 2011, 6:43:39 AM

BL is technically UU's ubers, so I'm theorymonning that he ends up there, since running a mixed set has the potential to eat a lot of stuff in UU.

Fluffy Otters · Feb 21st, 2011, 10:40:35 AM

UU/BL is going to be really interesting this time around with so many new things (by sheer volume) forcing formerly good pokemon down. I mean OU pokemon last time around like Infernape, Swampert, Latias (only because Latios exists although there are certain advantages to using it), Cresselia (with all the new power, Cresselia might finally be UU seeing as no one uses it and you need something to take base 147 Outrages in UU unless Haxorus gets banned which would be totally understandable), etc as well as new ones like Haxorous, Chandelure (without Shadow Tag, I wonder how that is going to work out, ban S-Tag in UU?), Zoroark (bleh, ignore this at your peril, I see this as BL-low OU), Kyurem (I predict this to utterly destroy much of UU and totally BL, I'm disappointed people don't use it because he's awesome), etc.

But I doubt Salamence will ever drop to UU (or even be allowed). It's power is still phenomenal and it no longer needs +spd natures usually since tying with base 100s seems a bit pointless this time around since things are either faster or slower. Draco Meteor+/Outrage spamming is deadly and unlike Haxorus, has a fire move to kill through common Nattorei, Forretress, and Skarmory (although all of those would need to beware of +2 Outrages since even they are 2 hit koed, Skarmory could Whirlwind and Nattorei paralyze and Forretress Counter but ouch). Being able to hit both sides hard with the almighty 140 Draco Meteor and 120 Outrage resisted only by Steel hurts. And you could double up on Dragons since there are only so many steels that can be had on the opponents team and Salamence can clear the way for things like Latias/Latios, Garchomp, etc. Having 2 things to tear apart the opponent's team with Draco Meteor hurts and while Salamence's isn't as strong as Latios' or Sazandora's, it hurts a lot and still 2 hit koes many things (140 stab hello). Intimidate is also useful to weaken physical hits. Salamence can also run bulky (although I prefer Dragonite for that, Salamence does have some useful things there too with Wish and Intimidate).

What do people think of Dragon Dance/Brick Break/Outrage/Fireblast? Brick Break still hits floaters and Fireblast/Outrage still kill everything else (except things like Porygon 2 which will give trouble). The power of 607+Life Orb (after 1 Dragon Dance) is awesome. Still, Salamence is thankfully held somewhat in check this time around with things like the new and improved P-2, Latios (before Dragon Dance), Voltlos (before Dragon Dance and could paralyze), Tornelos, Latios, Scizor and Starmie are still around, etc. Still, Salamence can still do the holy terror and kick butt so it's still freaking awesome.

**voodoo pimp** · Feb 21st, 2011, 3:03:51 PM

Salamence should definitely still run +Spd. Aside from speed tying with other base 100s, he really needs to stay ahead of Haxorus and Hydreigon.

IcyMan28 · Feb 21st, 2011, 3:11:28 PM

Eh. The only other base 100s he will commonly be tying with are max speed Volcarona and maybe Jirachi. Haxorus isn't really common enough, IMO, but I'll give you Hydreigon. There is also +speed Gliscor to consider, so that's another point toward +Spe.

~~BattleStar~~ · Feb 21st, 2011, 3:13:03 PM

I predict salmence will be a bit more defensive this generation

Innocent Criminal · Feb 21st, 2011, 3:18:41 PM

Don't forget that the metagame is still far from stabilized... Underrated 5th Gen pokemons are still being discovered (*cough* Tornadus *cough*), and Terakion seeing such low usage is probably the best example, as there's no way it will end up UU/BL. Salamence isn't used much because of all the fancy new stuff, but with the fall of Steel/Normal Priority in favor of Fighting (and somewhat Water) making up for its new checks, it's still a very potent threat.

Thorhammer · Feb 21st, 2011, 8:21:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Yoki

Don't forget that the metagame is still far from stabilized... Underrated 5th Gen pokemons are still being discovered (*cough* Tornadus *cough*), and Terakion seeing such low usage is probably the best example, as there's no way it will end up UU/BL. Salamence isn't used much because of all the fancy new stuff, but with the fall of Steel/Normal Priority in favor of Fighting (and somewhat Water) making up for its new checks, it's still a very potent threat.

Terrakion is already being used far too much to fall to UU. As is Salamence.

~~PlatinumDude~~ · Feb 22nd, 2011, 5:39:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BattleStar

I predict salmence will be a bit more defensive this generation

How so? Salamence's specialty has been straight-out offense since Gen III. Yes, it can do defensive sets, but Dragonite can do it much better.

Katakiri · Feb 22nd, 2011, 7:53:49 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Salamence goes the Gyarados route this Gen and Bulky Dragon Dance with Intimidate becomes one of his stables. For a while at least.

jamashawalker · Feb 23rd, 2011, 2:42:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Yoki

Don't forget that the metagame is still far from stabilized... Underrated 5th Gen pokemons are still being discovered (*cough* Tornadus *cough*), and Terakion seeing such low usage is probably the best example, as there's no way it will end up UU/BL. Salamence isn't used much because of all the fancy new stuff, but with the fall of Steel/Normal Priority in favor of Fighting (and somewhat Water) making up for its new checks, it's still a very potent threat.

Couldnt agree more! Salamence will always be that beast to look out for...right now it is not outshine nor outclassed by anything, just alot of people want to try out something new lol i wonder though if we'll be back on the topic again about banning him to ubers..but i dont think so

Rayquaza_ · Feb 23rd, 2011, 2:54:02 PM

Threads like this remind me why I keep questioning an usage-based tiering system. Salamence in UU, justified by the fact that it's not as used as a 100% idiotproof pokemon like Nattorei? Really?
The same goes for any other absurdly powerful pokemon that isn't used as often as it should because of all the new cool things, not because they can't perform well in OU.
Even if Gen 5 UU turns out to be very similiar to what Gen 4 OU was, what about NU?
We're going to have like 30 OU pokemon at most and 150 or more NUs this time around.

jamashawalker · Feb 23rd, 2011, 3:00:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Even if Gen 5 UU turns out to be very similiar to what Gen 4 OU was, what about NU?
We're going to have like 30 OU pokemon at most and 150 or more NUs this time around.

Well there are 156 new pokes around this time lol so yeah they have to fill in somewhere..lol might really be over 150 NUs

VaporeonIce · Feb 23rd, 2011, 3:48:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Threads like this remind me why I keep questioning an usage-based tiering system. Salamence in UU, justified by the fact that it's not as used as a 100% idiotproof pokemon like Nattorei? Really?
The same goes for any other absurdly powerful pokemon that isn't used as often as it should because of all the new cool things, not because they can't perform well in OU.
Even if Gen 5 UU turns out to be very similiar to what Gen 4 OU was, what about NU?
We're going to have like 30 OU pokemon at most and 150 or more NUs this time around.

I still stand by a usage based tier system (anything else seems really arbitrary), but I've been wondering lately whether people have thought about expanding OU at all. Obviously, there are more Pokemon this generation, so it makes sense that there might be more OU-viable Pokemon. Has anyone thought about increasing the cutoff percentage? I guess that sort of discussion might wait until we have official Smogon usage statistics, though.

Kefka Palazzo™ · Feb 23rd, 2011, 5:33:07 PM

People seem to forget that UU =/= Bad pokemon.

Poor Salamence :/

MtNiesen · Feb 23rd, 2011, 6:09:58 PM

this was a really fun set to use, nothing ground breaking, but more fun...
Salamence @ life orb/ (i'm consedering rechargeable battery...)
hasty
moxie
252 spe/176att/80spa
~draco meteor
~fire blast
~dragon claw
~earthquake

outrage at times can be a hinderance, and well, the goal with this guy is to just kill stuff, draco meteor, and fire blast are to kill physcical walls, then just keep up your killing spree!!(or at least don't die)

alphatron · Feb 23rd, 2011, 6:24:05 PM

Moxie and outrage is illeagal since outrage is a move tutor 4th gen move.

MtNiesen · Feb 23rd, 2011, 6:57:52 PM

i know, and i'm perfectly fin using dragon claw, you're harder to revenge that way, not being stuck and all...

the kbxe · Feb 24th, 2011, 1:44:50 AM

I seriously don't understand that system.

This means that just because some Pokémon like for example Latios isn't used much, then it ends in UU? Can Latios be in UU? No. So this system doesn't seem to be working well does it?

Feb 20th, 2011, 2:56:22 AM	#228
IcyMan28 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,793	Mence may have "lost" quite a bit, but it is still quite viable, especially this meta with the rain lost. It is the best option if you need a Dragon Dancer, and ScarfChomp has declined in use quite a bit. The flying type + intimidate helps against fighting-types as well, and it pulls off a great mixed DD set. Disregard it at your peril. __________________ In-Game Name: Anthony FC: 3309 2165 3231 I use legal hacks.

Feb 20th, 2011, 4:54:40 AM	#230
IcyMan28 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,793	Exactly. I'm actually kind of hoping no one remembers Mence, as the DD / Fire Blast / DM / Outrage set is great. Mence has not been left behind at all as far as offense goes. __________________ In-Game Name: Anthony FC: 3309 2165 3231 I use legal hacks.

Feb 21st, 2011, 6:06:18 AM	#232
JSND Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 877 Indonesia	This gen everyone forget that almost everything that keep mence OU in DP return. We have Garchomp, Pory2 IMPROVEEDDDDDDD, and some shit that can take his attacks. But i think saying UU isnt to crazy. I mean, lets say terakion become UU(like PO server no offend just an example). The reason things become UU or OU is something is not used much(usualy as of now from lack of development) and everyone judge it to be bad and not using it enough time. What bad from this is the fact that if something is legitimatelly a Top OU threats but is UU, it might happen that most are blinded that that thing is not broken because yeah on that tier the top threats is HIS counter(this is what exactly happen to terrakion on beta server.) while OU cant handle him as well as "UU". __________________ I use Deoxys-D before it was cool Yet i still use Torterra in OU

Feb 21st, 2011, 6:43:39 AM	#233
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	BL is technically UU's ubers, so I'm theorymonning that he ends up there, since running a mixed set has the potential to eat a lot of stuff in UU. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Feb 21st, 2011, 3:11:28 PM	#236
IcyMan28 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,793	Eh. The only other base 100s he will commonly be tying with are max speed Volcarona and maybe Jirachi. Haxorus isn't really common enough, IMO, but I'll give you Hydreigon. There is also +speed Gliscor to consider, so that's another point toward +Spe. __________________ In-Game Name: Anthony FC: 3309 2165 3231 I use legal hacks.

Feb 20th, 2011, 12:59:41 AM	#226
thatgirl Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 31 Ottawa, On	All this talk about Mence falling to UU is ridiculous. Dragonite was severly outclassed for the longest time in Gen4, but he never fell to UU.

Feb 21st, 2011, 10:40:35 AM	#234
Fluffy Otters Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 487	UU/BL is going to be really interesting this time around with so many new things (by sheer volume) forcing formerly good pokemon down. I mean OU pokemon last time around like Infernape, Swampert, Latias (only because Latios exists although there are certain advantages to using it), Cresselia (with all the new power, Cresselia might finally be UU seeing as no one uses it and you need something to take base 147 Outrages in UU unless Haxorus gets banned which would be totally understandable), etc as well as new ones like Haxorous, Chandelure (without Shadow Tag, I wonder how that is going to work out, ban S-Tag in UU?), Zoroark (bleh, ignore this at your peril, I see this as BL-low OU), Kyurem (I predict this to utterly destroy much of UU and totally BL, I'm disappointed people don't use it because he's awesome), etc. But I doubt Salamence will ever drop to UU (or even be allowed). It's power is still phenomenal and it no longer needs +spd natures usually since tying with base 100s seems a bit pointless this time around since things are either faster or slower. Draco Meteor+/Outrage spamming is deadly and unlike Haxorus, has a fire move to kill through common Nattorei, Forretress, and Skarmory (although all of those would need to beware of +2 Outrages since even they are 2 hit koed, Skarmory could Whirlwind and Nattorei paralyze and Forretress Counter but ouch). Being able to hit both sides hard with the almighty 140 Draco Meteor and 120 Outrage resisted only by Steel hurts. And you could double up on Dragons since there are only so many steels that can be had on the opponents team and Salamence can clear the way for things like Latias/Latios, Garchomp, etc. Having 2 things to tear apart the opponent's team with Draco Meteor hurts and while Salamence's isn't as strong as Latios' or Sazandora's, it hurts a lot and still 2 hit koes many things (140 stab hello). Intimidate is also useful to weaken physical hits. Salamence can also run bulky (although I prefer Dragonite for that, Salamence does have some useful things there too with Wish and Intimidate). What do people think of Dragon Dance/Brick Break/Outrage/Fireblast? Brick Break still hits floaters and Fireblast/Outrage still kill everything else (except things like Porygon 2 which will give trouble). The power of 607+Life Orb (after 1 Dragon Dance) is awesome. Still, Salamence is thankfully held somewhat in check this time around with things like the new and improved P-2, Latios (before Dragon Dance), Voltlos (before Dragon Dance and could paralyze), Tornelos, Latios, Scizor and Starmie are still around, etc. Still, Salamence can still do the holy terror and kick butt so it's still freaking awesome.

Feb 21st, 2011, 3:03:51 PM	#235
voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,965	Salamence should definitely still run +Spd. Aside from speed tying with other base 100s, he really needs to stay ahead of Haxorus and Hydreigon.

Feb 21st, 2011, 3:13:03 PM	#237
~~BattleStar~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 629 In a desert far away.	I predict salmence will be a bit more defensive this generation

Feb 21st, 2011, 3:18:41 PM	#238
Innocent Criminal Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 138 Paris, France	Don't forget that the metagame is still far from stabilized... Underrated 5th Gen pokemons are still being discovered (cough Tornadus cough), and Terakion seeing such low usage is probably the best example, as there's no way it will end up UU/BL. Salamence isn't used much because of all the fancy new stuff, but with the fall of Steel/Normal Priority in favor of Fighting (and somewhat Water) making up for its new checks, it's still a very potent threat.

Feb 22nd, 2011, 7:53:49 AM	#241
Katakiri Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 758 Smogon Mobile. Ugh.	I wouldn't be surprised if Salamence goes the Gyarados route this Gen and Bulky Dragon Dance with Intimidate becomes one of his stables. For a while at least.

Feb 23rd, 2011, 2:54:02 PM	#243
Rayquaza_ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 694	Threads like this remind me why I keep questioning an usage-based tiering system. Salamence in UU, justified by the fact that it's not as used as a 100% idiotproof pokemon like Nattorei? Really? The same goes for any other absurdly powerful pokemon that isn't used as often as it should because of all the new cool things, not because they can't perform well in OU. Even if Gen 5 UU turns out to be very similiar to what Gen 4 OU was, what about NU? We're going to have like 30 OU pokemon at most and 150 or more NUs this time around.

Feb 23rd, 2011, 5:33:07 PM	#246
Kefka Palazzo™ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 935	People seem to forget that UU =/= Bad pokemon. Poor Salamence :/ __________________ Shuckle has more attack than Huge Power Deoxys Attack Forme. http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/h...perShuckle.jpg

Feb 23rd, 2011, 6:09:58 PM	#247
MtNiesen Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 30 somewhere in the Swiss Alps	this was a really fun set to use, nothing ground breaking, but more fun... Salamence @ life orb/ (i'm consedering rechargeable battery...) hasty moxie 252 spe/176att/80spa ~draco meteor ~fire blast ~dragon claw ~earthquake outrage at times can be a hinderance, and well, the goal with this guy is to just kill stuff, draco meteor, and fire blast are to kill physcical walls, then just keep up your killing spree!!(or at least don't die)

Feb 23rd, 2011, 6:24:05 PM	#248
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	Moxie and outrage is illeagal since outrage is a move tutor 4th gen move.

Feb 23rd, 2011, 6:57:52 PM	#249
MtNiesen Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 30 somewhere in the Swiss Alps	i know, and i'm perfectly fin using dragon claw, you're harder to revenge that way, not being stuck and all...

Feb 24th, 2011, 1:44:50 AM	#250
the kbxe Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17	I seriously don't understand that system. This means that just because some Pokémon like for example Latios isn't used much, then it ends in UU? Can Latios be in UU? No. So this system doesn't seem to be working well does it?