Salamence

[Lord of Bays]

Before I'd jump onto that wagon, does Dragon Gem power up the entire Outrage, or just the first turn of it?

[Premier8]

^ This is the description of Dragon Gem taken directly from the strategy dex.

"If the holder uses a damage-dealing Dragon-type move, then the holder consumes this item and the power of that move is increased by 50%. One-time use."

So I believe it only powers up the first one. However it could still have some merit, if used correctly it can give Mence the extra power it needs to break through his biggest counters.

I was thinking of trying out a set similar to sub sd terrakion. Something along the lines of Sub/DD/Outrage/Earthquake/ @Dragon Gem with a Adamant nature. Thoughts?

[WaterBomb]

Even if Dragon Gem only powers up the first turn of Outrage, it's designed to give him the added power to OHKO his counter, netting a Moxie boost which makes up for the loss of the Dragon Gem.

[Scarfwynaut]

If your planning on locking yourself into outrage, would choice band / scarf be the way to go? It also allows you to use you know, other moves and get the attack or speed boost. I don't know though I don't play with Salamence, but to me, choice band or scarf seems much more threatening.

[Lord of Bays]

Dragonite uses a Choice Band better due to Multiscale and better bulk besides, with virtually no loss in attack (134 base vs 135 base).

As far as Scarf goes, when Moxie was released, Salamence got a huge overhaul on the main page, and there is a Scarf set that abuses the attack boosts.

For Choice sets in genearl, nothing has really changed since he wouldn't use Dragon Dance anyway and Outrage+Moxie was already legal. The big change now is that Dragon Dance and Outrage are legal with Moxie thanks to the move tutor, changing Salamence's set-up game.

[Draza]

I've used the choice scarf varient and it justs gets ridiculously powerful once steels are down.

[LucaroarkZ]

I used Salamence pretty recently, and I must say it's not too much different from before it could use both DD and Outrage with Moxie. Still easily revenge killed by Mamoswine and Choice Scarf users like Terrakion, still difficult to outright wall. Only difference is that being locked into Outrage really sucks, so things like Skarmory and Scizor can come in on this, so I think Dragon Claw will still see plenty of use. Plus, a +2 or so Dragon Claw is still ridiculously powerful.

Honestly, as long as you run something capable of revenge killing a +1 Salamence, such as Mamoswine or Scarf Terrakion, you should still be perfectly fine. In fact, Salamence locking itself into Outrage could make revenge killing easier.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

If your planning on locking yourself into outrage, would choice band / scarf be the way to go? It also allows you to use you know, other moves and get the attack or speed boost. I don't know though I don't play with Salamence, but to me, choice band or scarf seems much more threatening.

Bandmence is pretty good actually. What is terrifying about it with Moxie is that the Moxie boosts work with your CB boost >_> So you have around 600 attack with a naughty nature, but when it gets boosted by Moxie, it becomes >900! To put in perspective on powerful that is:
Skarmory:
Outrage: 143-168 (42.81 - 50.29%) -- 51.56% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

TBH I would fear a CB Mence more than a CB Dragonite

[Danger Mouse]

There's only one (huge) problem with moxiemence: Mamoswine.
It doesn't matter how many boosts Mence stacks. Once he's locked hmself into outrage, he's going to be revenge killed by mamo no matter what.
This is kind of important because Mamoswine is used very frequently these days.

[alphatron]

The problem with band Moxiemence is how easily revenge killed he is. Still doesn't stop him from putting the hurt on things though, kind of like solar power charizard.

[Matthew]

Has anyone tried DD Mixed yet? Naive Nature, Fire Blast, EQ, DD, and Dragon Claw (fuck Outrage) cleans up in Dream World. Yes, Mamoswine is a burden, but mamo can't come in on repeated hits constantly.

[Lord of Bays]

While I love Mamoswine and find him to be immensely underrated, he's not going to be the premiere counter of Salamence. Thundurus-T is. Has Landorus-I's troll speed, but with a base 145 Special Attack and HP Ice. It nearly OHKOs through Light Screen after Rocks (max of 72%).

[Danger Mouse]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord of Bays

While I love Mamoswine and find him to be immensely underrated, he's not going to be the premiere counter of Salamence. Thundurus-T is. Has Landorus-I's troll speed, but with a base 145 Special Attack and HP Ice. It nearly OHKOs through Light Screen after Rocks (max of 72%).

The thing is that mamoswine's ice shard has priority...mence can boost itself to be faster than thundurus, but it can't do anything about ice shard. it's pretty much a guaranteed full stop to a mence sweep, especially if it's locked itself into outrage and can't switch out.

[Shadow Overkill]

I'd choose Yache Berry> Dragon Gem. For a couple of reasons. First being that Mence can kill anything that doesn't resist it (a bulky steel type.)So his attack is risen, usually eliminating the need for a Dragon Gem. Yache Berry reduces 50% of one ice type attack. Meaning likely he will survive a Mamoswine incoming revenge kill. Hopefully either putting damage, or knocking it out.

[Sayonara]

Dragon Claw seems to be used more often than Outrage these days, because of the predominance of Life Orb Mamoswines roaming around. If you're locked into Outrage, you'll die to Ice Shard; however, at least with Dragon Claw you can switch out, preventing Salamence from going down.

[Zeta5]

honestly moxie dd salamence just sound downright terrifying to face...yeah I notice that often that d-claw is used more than outrage sometimes, of course our good ol dragon chek isnt seen too often either....

[shrang]

Originally Posted by Fat Matthew

Has anyone tried DD Mixed yet? Naive Nature, Fire Blast, EQ, DD, and Dragon Claw (fuck Outrage) cleans up in Dream World. Yes, Mamoswine is a burden, but mamo can't come in on repeated hits constantly.

I've used that set since Excadrill meta, lol. It's actually really good, there's been plenty of times, where I've DDed as Slowbro comes in or something, Draco Meteored it and then swept with Outrage. Moxie doesn't make all that much of a difference, but the set itself is excellent.

[PK Gaming]

Ahem.

I've been trying out a CB Haxorus + CS Salamence double dragon offensive core and its been kicking ass and taking names. It's essentially the same as the original CB Haxorus + CS Garchomp of old, but Salamence must be used with caution in order to work. Since you're using moxie you can't actually switch into most physical attackers anymore (I tried to check Lucario once...) It's honestly been working out well; Haxorus weakens / kills steel types (sometimes I don't even bother predicting between his coverage moves, I just want Steel-types weakened) and Salamence cleans up lategame. with Outrage. Once it gets a kill on its plate it won't stop unless it gets confusion hax.

[Draza]

Mamoswines not even in the top 40.

Mence doesn't have much to worry about.

[Danger Mouse]

Originally Posted by Fat Draza

Mamoswines not even in the top 40.

Mence doesn't have much to worry about.

Hey, if people don't want to run something that stops Mence dead in its tracks, that's their own fault.

[GoliathGarchomp]

Honelstly I think intimidate is still just as good as moxie on the DD sets. With out intimidate Mence will have a harder time setting up but once you do your a lot more threatning. I guess its kind of a risk thing, Intiomidate lets you set up easier while moxie allows you to be more threatning when you set up. Anyway with all the Momo's, faster choice scarfers not to mention Ditto Mence will do it tough.

[Bribery]

A combo that I liked in BW1 was Sub Hydreigon and Scarf Mence. Hydreigon can beat almost every Steel type on its own, clearing the way for Salamence to clean up. I think it would be viable in BW2 as well, but Hydreigon will have a harder time setting up Substitute since the metagame is much faster now.

[XcRunner]

Well the reason Mamo was so low in usage was because BW2 hadn't really set in yet when the usage stats came out. Now that the metagame has shifted I'm sure that Mamo will see top 20 if not higher just as a check to all of the new threats that have just been released.
However, I'm really thinking that abusing a Dugtrio focus sash reversal set could destroy Mamo and allow for the double dragon sweeping that PK Gaming was talking about. Mamo will ice shard to make dugtrio weak, and then reversal comes from 1 hp and is supereffective. Mamo is gone, and then you're still left with 1 hp to abuse reversal with, not to mention that he is also able to stop grounded steels that would stop Haxorus/Salamence from dominating the whole metagame.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Originally Posted by Fat Draza

Mamoswines not even in the top 40.

Mence doesn't have much to worry about.

Except his usage is rising pretty quickly because he counters the New Therian Forms, Rips Amoonbro apart, and performs well against Dragonite, and of course revenges Salamence, Hydregion, Haxorus, etc.

And even then, he was commenting that it's a threat he has to consider when teambuilding. Or are you saying that you just ignore anything that could be a threat to your team?

[White symphoni]

Actually,Salamence's checks can be removed with proper partners.Wobuffet can get rid of faster scarfers and use charm/encore to guarantee a DD.As for Ice shard Mamo,its rare and mostly seen on dragmag teams and other offensive teams.Wobuffet can check that too.In that case,using lures for mamo would be a good idea.Pairing Mence with Dnite or Haxorus can also force in Mamo or vice versa with mence and after it goes down by wobuffet the other one can take charge.Keldeo is another mon that can switch in on Mamo and put a lot of offensive pressure on the opposition.Rain Boosted Specs/+1 Hydro Pump 2HKOs even the likes of Amoongus and Celebi.Terra does a similar job with wobuffet dealing with its defensive checks .To sum it up ,Wobuffet+strong offensive partners can get rid of Mence's checks.

Sub+3 attack Mix Moxie Mence can easily get 2 or more KOs per game with proper support too.In fact Mence has many sets that are very dangerous and is virtually impossible to counter all sets at once.But people tend to use only Scarf Moxie Mence .DD was rarely seen in BW1 Meta,there for neutralizing its unpredictebility factor.But it makes it that much more threatening because you will have a huge surprise advantage.