Lucario - Page 11

UncleFinger · Dec 1st, 2011, 4:20:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lee

Specially-based Luke is still an amazing Gliscor lure

Even then, other than not taking Ice Punch for Crunch/Extreme Speed, there's really not much stopping Luke from Ice Punching the shit out of Gliscor anyways. Lucario generally outspeeds most Gliscors, and defensive ones are 2HKOed at the very worst unless Lucario is burned and at -1 or something.

Quote:

A: People like to be able to Phaze
B: My team doesnt have too many things weak to gyra

DD + DTail is still stupid. DTail has -6 Priority. You're not outspeeding shit with that. The rest of your team is also irrelevant - in this situation, Gyarados did what it came in to do - eliminate Lucario from the playing field.

NP Luke isn't bad, but it's not as good as its SD Counterpart for reasons already listed - other than a few (no longer notable) niches, it doesn't have much over the much stronger version.

Torchic · Dec 1st, 2011, 4:52:05 AM

I used NP luke long ago and it is not bad to revenge kill Excadrill.
Now SD is better unless it gets burned or intimidated. Terrakion is not a problem if luke has bullet punch. BP can also hit Gengar and scarf rocks like tar.

Luke is also good in Doubles and triples with nice ability, follow me, priority, long-distance attack moves, etc.

**Taylor** · Dec 1st, 2011, 11:06:46 AM

it is safe to fall back on either crunch/se/ice punch depending on your nature/item. lucario with crunch + cc has the opponent doing his/her best to avoid swords dance + espeed keeping the frail mons in check whilst its fighting/dark-type coverage takes care of the rest. i tend to run scizor and lucario for what its worth which is why i dont rely on bullet punch to deal with a select few pokemon who are all checked by scizor reasonably well.

NatGeo · Dec 2nd, 2011, 8:53:13 PM

Personally i like to use Bullet Punch on my Lucario so I'm not threatened by Terrakion, and plus with Bullet Punch Gengar can't stop your sweep which is really nice. A big drawback though is that you're going to have a lot harder time getting through Gliscor and Scarf Rotom-W, which, although admittedly less common, can still pop up and ruin a potential sweep. However, I like Bullet Punch for the fact that it hits a lot of the stuff resisting or immune to E-Speed!

Lucalibur · Dec 3rd, 2011, 1:07:45 PM

getting rid of Gliscor and Rotom is not hard with the right teammates(which is how you should be using Lucario cause he doesnt work on teams not based around him) and Bullet punch helps a lot against bastards such as gengar and Terrakion. there is little point in using other moves because BP is overall more useful.

YMMV on this, but IMO BP is more useful then the likes of crunch or ice punch for the last slot.

windwolf777 · Dec 3rd, 2011, 11:55:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ultrazai

According to serebii we will get DW-Luke with BP soon, as much as this is interesting what really gets my hopes up is that this COULD mean we will get prankster Riolu (if the Lucario is female or has a random gender) which would mean riority roar in form of copycat Oo

Nope. Riolu loses prankster upon evolving. DW Lucy has Justice Heart

Diamond Smoke · Dec 4th, 2011, 12:40:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat windwolf777

Nope. Riolu loses prankster upon evolving. DW Lucy has Justice Heart

same ability as DW Gallade right?

MMX · Dec 4th, 2011, 12:49:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Diamond Smoke

same ability as DW Gallade right?

Yes

Diamond Smoke · Dec 4th, 2011, 1:19:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MeGaMaN X

Yes

ah ok, just making sure. It is a great ability for both pokemon, yet I think it is a little bit better on Gallade, as Gallade also has the psychic secondary type, so opponents will try to exploit it only to find out it gets an attack boost. I think Lucario will most likely boost mostly on predicted switches in because I don't think anyone will use a dark type move on Lucario while it is still out fighting.

ThePillsburyDoughBoy · Dec 4th, 2011, 2:09:12 AM

I always found the problem with NP Luke is that Vacuum Wave never hit faster things hard enough, unlike Extremespeed. The only thing NP Luke has over SD Luke is the surprise factor.

IMO, Choice Specs Lucario is better than the Nasty Plot set, since the turn used to set up you are just able to hit hard right from the get-go on the predicted switches. HP Ice's extra coverage doesn't hurt either.

alexwolf · Dec 4th, 2011, 8:02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat windwolf777

Nope. Riolu loses prankster upon evolving. DW Lucy has Justice Heart

He was talking about Riolu.Riolu's DW ability is Prankster and it can use priority phazing via Copycat.Get it?

gamer40000 · Dec 4th, 2011, 9:59:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

He was talking about Riolu.Riolu's DW ability is Prankster and it can use priority phazing via Copycat.Get it?

Is that how it works? I thought it didn't do that, and fooled everybody about the mechanics. However, if you're right, it'll be interesting to see how high Riolu will move up in the tiers.

windwolf777 · Dec 4th, 2011, 5:31:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

He was talking about Riolu.Riolu's DW ability is Prankster and it can use priority phazing via Copycat.Get it?

Yes dude. I know how prankster phazing works. I'm not stupid and I read the thread. I just had a little misunderstanding. I'm sorry.

ACEpro · Apr 14th, 2012, 2:20:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AlphaJolt

Why would you use Modest? It takes away from ExtremeSpeed's damage.

oh i wonder. oh maybe his stats arent based around normal attack? dipshit..

The QWAZ · Apr 14th, 2012, 2:22:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ACEpro

oh i wonder. oh maybe his stats arent based around normal attack? dipshit..

Use a - defense nature, theres no need to be harsh because in this incident you are wrong.

Challenger · Apr 14th, 2012, 4:14:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ACEpro

oh i wonder. oh maybe his stats arent based around normal attack? dipshit..

That was a very odd post, considering that this is a very old thread, and you seem very upset with someone who made a good point.

FanOfSamurott · Apr 26th, 2012, 9:58:16 PM

I've been experimenting with Lucario for a bit and found a pretty fun set to use:

Lucario @ (life orb?)
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant
~Hone Claws
~Hi Jump Kick
~Blaze Kick / Ice Punch
~ExtremeSpeed

I chose HoneClaws because it adds damage to his STAB Hi Jump Kick and at the same time ensures that it hits. Blaze Kick or Ice punch are there for type coverage, though Blaze Kick could use Hone Claws as well.

**ginganinja** · Apr 26th, 2012, 10:11:06 PM

Trouble is, why wouldn't I still use SD? +1 HJK is nice and all, but instead I could be hitting something hard with a +2 Close Combat (and the defence drops don't bother Lucario THAT much since its already frail-ish). If I really wanted to use a 1 stage boosting move then id prolly go work up although split EV investment sucks

Iyokuu · May 16th, 2012, 2:02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat FanOfSamurott

I've been experimenting with Lucario for a bit and found a pretty fun set to use:

Lucario @ (life orb?)
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant
~Hone Claws
~Hi Jump Kick
~Blaze Kick / Ice Punch
~ExtremeSpeed

I chose HoneClaws because it adds damage to his STAB Hi Jump Kick and at the same time ensures that it hits. Blaze Kick or Ice punch are there for type coverage, though Blaze Kick could use Hone Claws as well.

I've actually been looking to make a Luke set exactly like this. Answering the question above, I would opt for the +1 Atk/Acc for HJK because it doesn't give the defense drops; meaning at least somewhat of a higher chance to survive, and it's stronger. Blaze kick likes the Acc boost as well. Plus it's different from what everyone uses in the metagame. I don't want a poke that is predictable to the point I have to play around that. It's like a counter-counter method.

The nature is what finishes of the set though. Justified can't be used with Ice Punch, but Ice Punch is more preferred to most situations.

Saitsuofleaves · May 16th, 2012, 2:13:58 PM

Lucario is already frail like it's been said. If you set up properly in the match, the CC drops won't matter as you'll be sweeping or at the least causing significant damage to the team. And if not, Lucario will be revenged just as easily with or without the drops. The only thing you're doing is making Lucario even more reliant on setting up, since it really won't like any possible HJK recoil.

As for using something different, that's fine, but as of now, even the Nasty Plot set is far enough away from what people tend to expect and that looks more effective honestly.

With the change to Adamant nature, you're risking losses in very key speed battles. Lucario gets revenged easily as it is with a positive-natured 90 Base Speed. Take away the positive nature on speed, and you're really asking for it, and Extremespeed can't kill that many things outright on just a +1.

And what do you mean Justified can't be used with Ice Punch?

Iyokuu · May 16th, 2012, 2:17:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Saitsuofleaves

Lucario is already frail like it's been said. If you set up properly in the match, the CC drops won't matter as you'll be sweeping or at the least causing significant damage to the team. And if not, Lucario will be revenged just as easily with or without the drops. The only thing you're doing is making Lucario even more reliant on setting up, since it really won't like any possible HJK recoil.

As for using something different, that's fine, but as of now, even the Nasty Plot set is far enough away from what people tend to expect and that looks more effective honestly.

With the change to Adamant nature, you're risking losses in very key speed battles. Lucario gets revenged easily as it is with a positive-natured 90 Base Speed. Take away the positive nature on speed, and you're really asking for it, and Extremespeed can't kill that many things outright on just a +1.

And what do you mean Justified can't be used with Ice Punch?

His ability justified is illegal with Ice Punch. It's a Gen IV move tutor move and Gen V ability. But I see what you mean about his speed. It's just hard choosing between Agility or SD. It seems he needs the power, but desperately needs the speed.

Saitsuofleaves · May 16th, 2012, 2:20:54 PM

Oh yeah, forgot Justified is DW.

And it's not hard at all. You use Swords Dance and a Positive Speed Nature (I don't know them all by name right now, forgive me). You won't be that fast, but at the very least you should take out a couple of pokes, and if you set up right, what you hit still won't like a +2 Extremespeed to the face.

Ithilanor · May 16th, 2012, 3:39:34 PM

The speed boosting nature you want is Jolly. And yeah, SD is generally better, since it gives ES the power to muscle through things. You just have to deal with good old 4MSS and use the rest of your team to deal with whatever Luke can't handle.

~~GracefulChaos~~ · May 16th, 2012, 6:21:57 PM

I would love Lucario if he gained Mach Punch. His speed just doesn't suffice my taste compared to Terrakion or Infernape. Anyone try out a Sub NP/SW +2 attacks? :p Could work perhaps haven't personally used it but a thought. How about High Jump Kick and Crunch. Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse :)

Saitsuofleaves · May 16th, 2012, 6:27:14 PM

Sub NP MIGHT work...maybe. But again, with it's frailty, it's not like his sub will be tanking things. Plus if you do Sub NP, you're losing out on either a coverage move (HP Ice) or some MUCH needed priority (Vacuum Wave). There's a reason why Lucario suffers from 4MSS, and idk adding Sub will help that at all.

Dec 1st, 2011, 4:52:05 AM	#252
Torchic Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 102 Unova Region	I used NP luke long ago and it is not bad to revenge kill Excadrill. Now SD is better unless it gets burned or intimidated. Terrakion is not a problem if luke has bullet punch. BP can also hit Gengar and scarf rocks like tar. Luke is also good in Doubles and triples with nice ability, follow me, priority, long-distance attack moves, etc. __________________ Hundred Posts!

Dec 2nd, 2011, 8:53:13 PM	#254
NatGeo ♭ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,428 ♯	Personally i like to use Bullet Punch on my Lucario so I'm not threatened by Terrakion, and plus with Bullet Punch Gengar can't stop your sweep which is really nice. A big drawback though is that you're going to have a lot harder time getting through Gliscor and Scarf Rotom-W, which, although admittedly less common, can still pop up and ruin a potential sweep. However, I like Bullet Punch for the fact that it hits a lot of the stuff resisting or immune to E-Speed! __________________

Dec 3rd, 2011, 1:07:45 PM	#255
Lucalibur Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,091 WARE WA KURENAI NO WYVERN!	getting rid of Gliscor and Rotom is not hard with the right teammates(which is how you should be using Lucario cause he doesnt work on teams not based around him) and Bullet punch helps a lot against bastards such as gengar and Terrakion. there is little point in using other moves because BP is overall more useful. YMMV on this, but IMO BP is more useful then the likes of crunch or ice punch for the last slot. __________________ EmissaryofDarkness: is u only won beacuse u u use some strange ass tar EmissaryofDarkness: u do realize i am one of the best players on here EmissaryofDarkness: ur a terrible player luke EmissaryofDarkness: any one can win with the element of suprise

Dec 4th, 2011, 2:09:12 AM	#260
ThePillsburyDoughBoy Ttar by Doughboy Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 959 Mentor	I always found the problem with NP Luke is that Vacuum Wave never hit faster things hard enough, unlike Extremespeed. The only thing NP Luke has over SD Luke is the surprise factor. IMO, Choice Specs Lucario is better than the Nasty Plot set, since the turn used to set up you are just able to hit hard right from the get-go on the predicted switches. HP Ice's extra coverage doesn't hurt either. __________________ Check Out the 1 vs 1 Metagame: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3483807

Apr 26th, 2012, 9:58:16 PM	#267
FanOfSamurott Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 19	I've been experimenting with Lucario for a bit and found a pretty fun set to use: Lucario @ (life orb?) 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Nature: Adamant ~Hone Claws ~Hi Jump Kick ~Blaze Kick / Ice Punch ~ExtremeSpeed I chose HoneClaws because it adds damage to his STAB Hi Jump Kick and at the same time ensures that it hits. Blaze Kick or Ice punch are there for type coverage, though Blaze Kick could use Hone Claws as well. __________________ http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...DP3nB6kEyCHX4Q

Dec 1st, 2011, 11:06:46 AM	#253
Taylor no.... no i do not look like psyduck Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,990 play?	it is safe to fall back on either crunch/se/ice punch depending on your nature/item. lucario with crunch + cc has the opponent doing his/her best to avoid swords dance + espeed keeping the frail mons in check whilst its fighting/dark-type coverage takes care of the rest. i tend to run scizor and lucario for what its worth which is why i dont rely on bullet punch to deal with a select few pokemon who are all checked by scizor reasonably well.

Apr 26th, 2012, 10:11:06 PM	#268
ginganinja Delena 4ever Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,101 In Love	Trouble is, why wouldn't I still use SD? +1 HJK is nice and all, but instead I could be hitting something hard with a +2 Close Combat (and the defence drops don't bother Lucario THAT much since its already frail-ish). If I really wanted to use a 1 stage boosting move then id prolly go work up although split EV investment sucks __________________

May 16th, 2012, 2:13:58 PM	#270
Saitsuofleaves Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 146	Lucario is already frail like it's been said. If you set up properly in the match, the CC drops won't matter as you'll be sweeping or at the least causing significant damage to the team. And if not, Lucario will be revenged just as easily with or without the drops. The only thing you're doing is making Lucario even more reliant on setting up, since it really won't like any possible HJK recoil. As for using something different, that's fine, but as of now, even the Nasty Plot set is far enough away from what people tend to expect and that looks more effective honestly. With the change to Adamant nature, you're risking losses in very key speed battles. Lucario gets revenged easily as it is with a positive-natured 90 Base Speed. Take away the positive nature on speed, and you're really asking for it, and Extremespeed can't kill that many things outright on just a +1. And what do you mean Justified can't be used with Ice Punch? __________________ On 5/26, something that defined a generation shall make its long awaited return. Toonami has come back, prepare yourselves one and all. Bang.

May 16th, 2012, 2:20:54 PM	#272
Saitsuofleaves Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 146	Oh yeah, forgot Justified is DW. And it's not hard at all. You use Swords Dance and a Positive Speed Nature (I don't know them all by name right now, forgive me). You won't be that fast, but at the very least you should take out a couple of pokes, and if you set up right, what you hit still won't like a +2 Extremespeed to the face. __________________ On 5/26, something that defined a generation shall make its long awaited return. Toonami has come back, prepare yourselves one and all. Bang.

May 16th, 2012, 3:39:34 PM	#273
Ithilanor Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 242	The speed boosting nature you want is Jolly. And yeah, SD is generally better, since it gives ES the power to muscle through things. You just have to deal with good old 4MSS and use the rest of your team to deal with whatever Luke can't handle.

May 16th, 2012, 6:21:57 PM	#274
~~GracefulChaos~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12	I would love Lucario if he gained Mach Punch. His speed just doesn't suffice my taste compared to Terrakion or Infernape. Anyone try out a Sub NP/SW +2 attacks? :p Could work perhaps haven't personally used it but a thought. How about High Jump Kick and Crunch. Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse :)

May 16th, 2012, 6:27:14 PM	#275
Saitsuofleaves Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 146	Sub NP MIGHT work...maybe. But again, with it's frailty, it's not like his sub will be tanking things. Plus if you do Sub NP, you're losing out on either a coverage move (HP Ice) or some MUCH needed priority (Vacuum Wave). There's a reason why Lucario suffers from 4MSS, and idk adding Sub will help that at all. __________________ On 5/26, something that defined a generation shall make its long awaited return. Toonami has come back, prepare yourselves one and all. Bang.