B&W Research Thread

[Purimpopoie]

Has there been any research done in how Haze works in Rotation battles?

[Zebstrika]

Originally Posted by Fat mien

Freeze status test for generation V
Results: In number of turns where the pokémon gave the 'frozen solid' message for each time Jirachi got frozen.
Left Jirachi: 12,11,13,11,8,1,8,10,6,2,3,7,0,1,1,2,7,8,6,6,5,7,0 ,0,2,7
Right Jirachi: 0,8,16,4,3,0,0,21(wtf),2,2,3,0,2,1,9,0
Total: 42 times frozen and duration total 215 turns
Freeze ratio of this test: 42/(215+42) = 16.342%

There are two possible conclusions of this test:
- The defrost rate has dropped from ~23% to ~16%
- The defrost rate has remained the same, but the tested rate in both deviates a lot from the actual rate.

I think it's the latter, as gamefreak uses a multiplier of 10, 1/3 or 1/4 for pretty much all chance related moves/abilities/items and status in the game(not factoring in accuracy of course)

As such I assembled my results and Peterko's as the more tests you have to closer you get to the actual result.
(42+55)/(178+215)+(42+55)= 97/490= 19.796%

Conclusion:
The defrost rate has remained unchanged and is 20%.

You should probably change it to 257 turns, to prevent some confusion, because that would include the turns they defrosted, too (but the chances are correct).

[Death Phenomeno]

Please excuse me for having to ask this, but the OP mentions nothing about the following:

Was it ever truly confirmed that the "Fresh" set of rules were a hoax?

[Theorymon]

I would just like to confirm that Dragon Tail can be chosen by Sleep Talk. I made my Giratina fall asleep, and when Sleep Talk chose Dragon Tail, it KOed the wild Pokemon. Im unsure if the phazing part works, so I will test it again asap on something that wont die to Dragon Tail.

Edit: Just tested it against the Elite 4, Dragon Tail does indeed still phaze when chosen via Sleep Talk.

[breh]

just read it from a warstory, somebody commented that Encourage-boosted moves ignore life orb damage? O_O

is this true?

yes.

@ Death Phenomeno: What exactly do you mean?

[ΩDonut]

I thought I had made this an official rule, but I'll make it clear now:

- Do not post questions in this thread if the answer can be found in the list.

I will be giving warnings to anyone who does not check the list first from now on.

[Screw-On Head]

A though... Can unburden's speed boost be baton passed now?

[breh]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

I will be giving warnings to anyone who does not check the list first from now on.

You may also want to bold that rule so that it's more visible; this may aggrandize the amount of people that see it.

Originally Posted by Fat Screw-On Head

A though... Can unburden's speed boost be baton passed now?

Also, does Unburden have a message? It did in last gen shoddy but it never did ingame, IIRC.

[Death Phenomeno]

Originally Posted by Fat Death Phenomeno

Was it ever truly confirmed that the "Fresh" set of rules were a hoax?

Originally Posted by Fat Breludicolo

What exactly do you mean?

There was a rumour about a Wi-Fi set of rules, supposedly called Fresh, that only allowed Pokémon bred & raised within the fifth generation to be used.

Then there was the whole "Wi-Fi doesn't allow Gen. 4 TM's" misunderstanding, which several people, including myself, believed to be this new set of rules.

But after that was cleared, nobody mentioned Fresh again. I'm pretty sure it was a hoax after all, but nobody ever really confirmed it.

[Rechi]

I read somewhere that after Meloetta uses Ancient Song to change into Step Forme in battle and then take it to the move deleter to get rid of Ancient Song it can stay in Step Forme permanently. Can anybody test this?

*I don't remember seeing it here but if this has already been tested than just ignore this post*

[sensible]

I used nitro charge and didn't get the speed boost. Is this due to the fact that it isn't 100% of the time? If it matters i used it against an opposing fire type.

[Zebstrika]

Originally Posted by Fat Rechi

I read somewhere that after Meloetta uses Ancient Song to change into Step Forme in battle and then take it to the move deleter to get rid of Ancient Song it can stay in Step Forme permanently. Can anybody test this?

So if this is true, once changed, Meloetta will never change back?

[ShravanP]

Confirmed Wish no longer heals 50% of the recipient's HP. Wish now heals the recipient by 50% of the user's max HP, rounded up. (If Shedinja uses Wish, it restores 1 HP.) (fisdunction, Moo, mien)

This is from the OP. I have a suspicion regarding the "rounded up" part. Historically, all HP changes in Pokemon have been rounded down, without exception. The only post with numbers that is linked from the OP documents an even number HP for the wish user (404 Jirachi in this case). Can someone try this test using an odd number value for HP instead?

I have a suspicion that Wish's formula might indeed round down Shedinja's Wish value to 0 but have a higher priority ingame mechanism override that answer with 1, sticking by the other long-standing rule of pokemon that all HP transactions must be at least 1.

[Delta 2777]

Can a Pokemon use Magnet rise after hit by Knock Down? What if a Pokemon is hit by Knock Down and then uses Skill Swap to obtain the ability Levitate? What type does Tornelos (pure Flying-type) turn into after hit by Knock Down? If it is ???, does it get STAB on Struggle?
EDIT: Do Flying-types still recieve STAB on Flying after being hit by Knock Down? (If the answer is yes then I suppose there's no reason to test if it gets STAB on Struggle).

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat Delta 2777

Can a Pokemon use Magnet rise after hit by Knock Down? What if a Pokemon is hit by Knock Down and then uses Skill Swap to obtain the ability Levitate? What type does Tornelos (pure Flying-type) turn into after hit by Knock Down? If it is ???, does it get STAB on Struggle?
EDIT: Do Flying-types still recieve STAB on Flying after being hit by Knock Down? (If the answer is yes then I suppose there's no reason to test if it gets STAB on Struggle).

Knock Down simply makes the Pokemon lose its immunity to Ground moves; it doesn't actually lose its Flying type completely. For example, if you hit Tornelos with Knock Down, it won't become the ??? type like it would if it used Roost.

[Zebstrika]

Originally Posted by Fat ShravanP

This is from the OP. I have a suspicion regarding the "rounded up" part. Historically, all HP changes in Pokemon have been rounded down, without exception. The only post with numbers that is linked from the OP documents an even number HP for the wish user (404 Jirachi in this case). Can someone try this test using an odd number value for HP instead?

I have a suspicion that Wish's formula might indeed round down Shedinja's Wish value to 0 but have a higher priority ingame mechanism override that answer with 1, sticking by the other long-standing rule of pokemon that all HP transactions must be at least 1.

The damage formula rounds down, unless the damage would be less than 1, when it would round up to 1, so it may be the same with Wish.

[mien]

Does each hit of a multi-hit move have its own flinch rate with King's Rock\Stench?

Tested with a Skill Link Cloyster holding King's rock using Spike Cannon on a Steelix.
In 20 turns Spike Cannon flinched 11 times or 55% as such it's safe to say that each hit of a multi-hit move has it's own flinch rate with King's Rock.

To test Stench i used a Wide Lens Yabukuron using Rock Blast 50 times on the same Steelix. Problem was that there is no item or move that always hits 5 times, so i noted all of them down separately.
2 Hits: Flinched 2 times out of 15 or 13.3%
3 Hits: Flinched 4 times out of 12 or 25%
4 Hits: Flinched 2 times out of 9 or 22.2%
5 Hits: Flinched 6 times out of 14 or 42.9%

I suppose that these results confirm that for Stench each move also has it's own Flinch rate.

Very interesting in this test is how many times i got 5 Hits in a row. 14 out of 50 times means a 28% rate, which is in sharp contrast with smogon's IV gen description that says those occur only 12.5% of the time.
Could it be that the ratio has changed to 25% for all four, instead of 37.5% to hit 2 or 3 times and 12.5 to hit 4 or 5?

[Thorhammer]

Originally Posted by Fat mien

Very interesting in this test is how many times i got 5 Hits in a row. 14 out of 50 times means a 28% rate, which is in sharp contrast with smogon's IV gen description that says those occur only 12.5% of the time.
Could it be that the ratio has changed to 25% for all four, instead of 37.5% to hit 2 or 3 times and 12.5 to hit 4 or 5?

This may be important to test in-depth. It has some significant implications with the improved multi-hit moves, especially Technician Breloom.

[breh]

Originally Posted by Fat mien

Very interesting in this test is how many times i got 5 Hits in a row. 14 out of 50 times means a 28% rate, which is in sharp contrast with smogon's IV gen description that says those occur only 12.5% of the time.
Could it be that the ratio has changed to 25% for all four, instead of 37.5% to hit 2 or 3 times and 12.5 to hit 4 or 5?

I wouldn't suggest thinking this; if you look at your own data you also see that you hit 4 times in a row far less than the other times. My guess is small sample size, honestly...

I guess the best idea would be a test with a Shell Armor cloyster with icicle spear, Rock Blast, and spike cannon with a wide lens.

Thus through this you have the largest assortment of multi hit moves I think...

Or at least the most 100% acc. ones so as to make your test easier.

[mien]

I wouldn't suggest thinking this; if you look at your own data you also see that you hit 4 times in a row far less than the other times. My guess is small sample size, honestly...

I guess the best idea would be a test with a Shell Armor cloyster with icicle spear, Rock Blast, and spike cannon with a wide lens.

Thus through this you have the largest assortment of multi hit moves I think...

Or at least the most 100% acc. ones so as to make your test easier.

I didn't say that it was confirmed or even tentative, i just said it was a possibility. Also 9 out of 50 times is still 18% which is far higher then 12.5%.

My plan is to do a test with one multi-hit move with 100% accuracy about 100 times to increase the sample size and see if i get a similar result.(If anyone else is willing to do the test as well please do so, as 100 may not be enough)

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Rechi

I read somewhere that after Meloetta uses Ancient Song to change into Step Forme in battle and then take it to the move deleter to get rid of Ancient Song it can stay in Step Forme permanently. Can anybody test this?

*I don't remember seeing it here but if this has already been tested than just ignore this post*

But doesn't it revert back to Voice Forme after battle? I guess it *could* work if it tried to learn a move after leveling up and you chose Ancient Song to be forgotten, though.

[R_N]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

But doesn't it revert back to Voice Forme after battle? I guess it *could* work if it tried to learn a move after leveling up and you chose Ancient Song to be forgotten, though.

I haven't heard that it reverts after battle.

And, hey, if people are testing it may as well test:
-Does the change still work even if used against a Pokemon with Soundproof, or a Ghost Type
-Does she revert upon switching out, too?
-If you delete the move, can you go back to the guy and learn it again like a normal move tutor?

Last one could also apply to Keludio's Sword of Mystery, too.

[reaverz]

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

Knock Down simply makes the Pokemon lose its immunity to Ground moves; it doesn't actually lose its Flying type completely. For example, if you hit Tornelos with Knock Down, it won't become the ??? type like it would if it used Roost.

Actually, I've read that a pure Flying type using Roost becomes Normal-typed for the rest of the turn in Gen V. The likely reason being that the ??? type no longer exists within the game's coding in any way shape or form.

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

I haven't heard that it reverts after battle.

I've read that it does on here and on other sites. But I guess it deserves a second check from someone with the game, just in case.

[mien]

I retested the hit ratio of multi-hit moves.

Shellder using Spike Cannon on Steelix 100 times
2 Hits: 30 times or 30%
3 Hits: 34 times or 34%
4 Hits: 11 times or 11%
5 Hits: 21 times or 21%

Wide Lens Yabukuron(same from last test) using Rock Blast 50 times on the same Steelix
2 Hits: 20 times or 40%
3 Hits: 15 times or 30%
4 Hits: 4 times or 8%
5 Hits: 9 times or 18%

I suppose the hit rate has remained unchanged after all, guess my first test just deviated a lot from the actual rate.

Actually, I've read that a pure Flying type using Roost becomes Normal-typed for the rest of the turn in Gen V. The likely reason being that the ??? type no longer exists within the game's coding in any way shape or form.

I confirm this, my hacked Torunerosu with Roost got super effective damage from fighting and was immune to Ghost moves during the turn it used Roost.

[MauriiDS]

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

-Does the change still work even if used against a Pokemon with Soundproof, or a Ghost Type?

I didn`t tested it but im pretty sure that if the attack does not hit there is no effect.

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

-Does she revert upon switching out, too?

Yes, (when Meloetta is in Step Forme) Meloetta`s forme will change again to normal (Voice Forme) when you switch out Meloetta, the battle ends, or you use Ancient Song again.

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

-If you delete the move, can you go back to the guy and learn it again like a normal move tutor?

Last one could also apply to Keludio's Sword of Mystery, too.

Yes, if you delete the move you can go back to the places where they can learn their respective moves and "re-learn" them.