R.I.P. Leads and Scouting

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat andrea

No. Did you even read the response you got when you asked this in the research thread?

Well then that's even better. /thread

[Rayquaza_]

This is bad news for Zoroark.

[skullzie]

.

[Bombkirby]

Originally Posted by Fat Da Letter El

This makes Zoroark much less useful since teams would know when he is a possibility to be used or not. That notwithstanding, I think this is a pretty good idea; it's not all roses, but it does increase the amount of informed prediction, which encourages smarter play.

They still have to guess. Lets pretend your opponent has a Zoroark. Lets say your using a psychic type and lets say the opponent sends out a poison type. You can OHKO it with a psychic move but it COULD be Zoroak! You attack with a fighting move (focus blast?) in hopes to OHKO Zoroak! Ineffective... You die to dark attack.

This changes NOTHING people! Its still a guessing game. XD

[Tagrineth]

Originally Posted by Fat Arikado

This.

I'm not liking this at all, this basically means no more prediction.

Prediction of the unknown?

It takes away guesswork, not prediction...

[probationsmack]

What 'skill' was there under the old system? Checking server statistics every month to see whether Blissey has fallen enough to put a special sweeper on your team? If anything this will make for better mindgames. Magnezone knows that Skarmory knows he is in the wings. Does the Skarmory player switch out immediately and waste a valuable turn? Does the Magnezone player take it since Skarmory didn't switch out he is running shed shell? Does he whirlwind right away and give away he doesn't have shed shell? Or is he bluffing?

I dunno, my favorite part of every battle is when both sides know the remaining roster and have to make crucial decisions, not so much 'gotcha' switchins. Now, items and movesets are still hidden, and honestly I feel movepools are better for surprise tactics. Ditto notwithstanding.

[EvilMario]

I don't hate this, and I can't prefer it.

It changes the game completely, and it's basically 'a different metagame' knowing what you're up against. It still takes quite a bit of skill to decide what to put out first.

Stall might like this quite a bit, knowing what offensive threats it will be looking at before the match starts. Of course, like wise, if you have a Double-Dragon team against one with a shaky single Dragon counter, you'll have a huge advtange.

[DDRMaster]

Seriously, have only three people noticed the post that says the OP is wrong? This is becoming worse than the Thunder Wave hitting Ground types rumor.

[Stellar]

We don't actually know if it is wrong. When jumpluff and I tested this (she tested with other people as well and was pretty thorough), she could not find an option to turn it off.

[Elevator Music]

I think that this is a big change and I don't quite know how to feel about it.

Saying "It takes away lots of things grrr" isn't really looking at the whole picture. Yeah, there's some things that were a major part of Gen4 that are now invalid in Gen5 (hiding your sweeper and the way we lead etc.). It also added more depth to the we way play Pokemon in other ways though (prediction is much more important blah blah blah). This is an entirely different game now. That's not a good thing or a bad thing, and your perspective on this shouldn't really be "this is a great change" or "the way we did stuff before was better".

If you came into Gen5 thinking you'd automatically be the shit because you were awesome at Gen4, you were mistaken. But not just because of this.

EDIT- Or this whole topic could be irrelevant!

[btb]

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

This is becoming worse than the Thunder Wave hitting Ground types rumor.

*cough*aimingmark*cough*

[Onnipotente]

at least now when you're in a severe bad team match-up you'll know it beforehand?

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat stellar

We don't actually know if it is wrong. When jumpluff and I tested this (she tested with other people as well and was pretty thorough), she could not find an option to turn it off.

According to skarm, it doesn't exist at all for matches found using Friend Codes.

Edit: Aiming Mark was mostly just a bad translation and once people realised it didn't work like that, the news spread fairly quickly (a day or two) and people stopped discussing it. Thunder Wave lasted atleast a week after someone proved the rumor was wrong.

[jumpluff*]

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

Well then that's even better. /thread

Not /thread, I am pretty sure andrea and skarm are wrong. If they found a way to turn team display off I am all ears, believe me. I tried free rule mode and unlimited mode both, switched every setting, tried random match and friend code matches. I don't have access to IR battles via the C-Gear. I Wi-Fied with my own two DSes and still saw the Pokémon.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

According to skarm, it doesn't exist at all for matches found using Friend Codes.

It does. We've tried it.

[Bombkirby]

Originally Posted by Fat Tagrineth

Prediction of the unknown?

It takes away guesswork, not prediction...

Exactly. People are freaking out and not thinking about this clearly. This change doesn't show us what our opponent will switch to next turn or anything! Its still prediction but its not BLIND prediction.

Like if you have a Swampert out and the opponent has a fire type out, and they might switch to their grass type and resist your Equake/Water move and try to kill you.

In D/P/Pt and stuff you have NO idea if they even have a grass type so you might just BLINDLY fire off an ice move in hopes that they'll switch to something weak to ice. But in B/W you now have an idea of who they might switch to. Sure they might switch to their grass pokemon but thats too obvious! What moron would do something that predictable? They might just bring out another Water/Ground type or something! Its STILL a guessing game but we now can make educated guesses and figure out witch move would be most effective on their switch ins.

[Lee]

Actually, battle simulators have traditionally aimed to emulate link battles, not wi-fi battles. This can be seen in Rotom-A being permitted in 4th Gen play. I can't say with any certainty or authority whether or not Shoddy 2 will follow this rule but if it's as TheMaskedNitpicker describes then it's certainly possible.

And guys, what's with all the negativity? For every argument that it 'reduces skill' I could easily counter that it promotes skill.

[Ice-eyes]

Can someone test this on a Link Battle?

[Sixfortyfive]

Originally Posted by Fat Tagrineth

It takes away guesswork, not prediction...

Seriously, this. I don't see why there is so much resistance to this.

[Ontop]

Originally Posted by Fat Ice-eyes

I hate this. It invalidates a lot of core pokemon concepts; I can't hide my sweeper until the endgame, and I know exactly what to sacrifice, always. This removes a considerable layer of the skill in pokemon.

Like the 6th person to say, you took the words from my mouth. *Praying to god SB2 will NOT implement this.*

[AxelLow]

If this is true It'll suck completely. The guesswork, and prediction is what made the battles even more fun. You actually had to think, and make educated guesses against tougher opponents. With this, it's just going to be less mindgames, less guesswork, and not as interesting.

[Rayquaza_]

Also, Shadow Tag Shanderaa might not be that broken if you know in advance that it's in your opponent's team.
However this means that against Shanderaa (and to a less extent, Wobbuffeet and Gochizeru) your lead will almost always be a pokemon that can reliably take it down (mostly Pursuit users and pokemon that resist fire/ghost in general).

I personally like this change because it promotes pokemon with not-so-common movesets. Your opponent might know your pokemon right from the start, but he still doesn't know their moves. So instead of a generic EQ/SW/Outrage/FB Garchomp you could run a different set to surprise your opponent.

[Bombkirby]

Originally Posted by Fat probationsmack

What 'skill' was there under the old system? Checking server statistics every month to see whether Blissey has fallen enough to put a special sweeper on your team? If anything this will make for better mindgames. Magnezone knows that Skarmory knows he is in the wings. Does the Skarmory player switch out immediately and waste a valuable turn? Does the Magnezone player take it since Skarmory didn't switch out he is running shed shell? Does he whirlwind right away and give away he doesn't have shed shell? Or is he bluffing?

I dunno, my favorite part of every battle is when both sides know the remaining roster and have to make crucial decisions, not so much 'gotcha' switchins. Now, items and movesets are still hidden, and honestly I feel movepools are better for surprise tactics. Ditto notwithstanding.

Correct my friend! Heck this makes it even MORE of a guessing game! :D If you don't know your opponent's team you have nothing to worry about. But if you DO know their team you have to go through all the possible things your opponent could do! And that list is huge! Our brains will be pushed to the limit going through every possible scenario.

[Da Letter El]

Originally Posted by Fat Bombkirby

They still have to guess. Lets pretend your opponent has a Zoroark. Lets say your using a psychic type and lets say the opponent sends out a poison type. You can OHKO it with a psychic move but it COULD be Zoroak! You attack with a fighting move (focus blast?) in hopes to OHKO Zoroak! Ineffective... You die to dark attack.

This changes NOTHING people! Its still a guessing game. XD

That's not my point; my point is that Zoroark is much more effective when you don't expect him. With his pretty terrible defenses, you can't switch it into anything anyway, and now with the cat out of the bag from the beginning, you have much less utility in being able to force out moves that zoroark would normally resist. You get moves that are neutral at best. And those are probably strong enough to kill it.

[Gazooki]

If they have this for VGC it could be very helpful, at least then you know what kind of strategy your opponent's using and can adjust accordingly.