Heatran

[Colonel Darren]

I think most Heatrans will be the same molten slags we've come to know and love, similar to Metagross. Quite frankly, Metagross and Heatran seem incredibly similar in how they've adapted to Gen 5. Both lose out on Explosion's power, but both seem to get a technique that could help aid them in different sets.

Metagross gets Claw Sharpen, which boosts Meteor Mash's accuracy and it's Attack.
Heatran gets Nitro Charge, which boosts it's speed to Scarf levels.

I find it rather interesting how the 'oldies, but goodies' still might work out even with minimal changes.

[STEELDRAGON]

Originally Posted by Fat Colonel Darren

I think most Heatrans will be the same molten slags we've come to know and love, similar to Metagross. Quite frankly, Metagross and Heatran seem incredibly similar in how they've adapted to Gen 5. Both lose out on Explosion's power, but both seem to get a technique that could help aid them in different sets.

Metagross gets Claw Sharpen, which boosts Meteor Mash's accuracy and it's Attack.
Heatran gets Nitro Charge, which boosts it's speed to Scarf levels.

I find it rather interesting how the 'oldies, but goodies' still might work out even with minimal changes.

Overall, I think Heatran in terms of new moves received the better end of the bargain, because Nitro charge actually does damage while increasing speed. Claw sharpen with Metagross will help but it's still outsped by quite a lot.

[Colonel Darren]

Originally Posted by Fat STEELDRAGON

Overall, I think Heatran in terms of new moves received the better end of the bargain, because Nitro charge actually does damage while increasing speed. Claw sharpen with Metagross will help but it's still outsped by quite a lot.

Well, let's be honest. Outside of Agiligross, we were not expecting Metagross to really outspeed anything save for being in Trick Room, which is where I think the Claw Sharpen sets will shine. But yes, in terms of new moves adding to effectiveness, I think Heatran got the better end of the stick.

[Wafflez]

Well Heatran got some interesting new toys to play with.Nothing game changing but pretty cool.
The biggest boost i see is the new Nitro Charge.This is like Charge Beam but actually viable and Heatran has a pretty good speed after +1 outspeeding a good portion of the game and we all know the Beast that is LOTran.Heatrans biggest drawback was always the speed anyway.
The 2nd thing i am quite interested in is this new Baloon thing.Generally i dont see it replacing Shuca because of the fact it "pops" after any hit if i remember correctly.So this is probably going to be some kind of exclusive lead only item.
Heatran seems as good as even this gen and will probably find some place at the top of OU,

[Calm Pokemaster]

Nitro Charge is the best new toy Heatran got to play with in 5th gen. Sad thing is, you cant bluff as a Choice set since it will be a giveway once you use it. So basically, bring Heatran in on something like Forry, Nitro Charge the obvious switch in, and proceed to sweep from there.

Balloon wont be of much use, since any attack will pop it. FakeOut leads will pop BalloonTran. Better off with ShucaTran.

[red12345]

For the guy who said Heatran walls Shandera all day, no. Ghosts usually run fighting type moves for coverage.

Nitro Charge is a very cool move on Heatran since 90 ATK is not very shabby at all. 1 Turn setup for a ScarfTran with the ability to switch moves is nothing to joke about.

[Display]

Originally Posted by Fat red12345

For the guy who said Heatran walls Shandera all day, no. Ghosts usually run fighting type moves for coverage.

Shanderaa doesn't get any Fighting moves. HP Fighting would be its only option, and it probably won't bother to carry it. Even if it did, it would be useless on pretty much everything but Heatran, since STAB Flamethrower has over twice the BP.

[Elfam]

Originally Posted by Fat Display

Shanderaa doesn't get any Fighting moves. HP Fighting would be its only option, and it probably won't bother to carry it. Even if it did, it would be useless on pretty much everything but Heatran, since STAB Flamethrower has over twice the BP.

totally not true. the enemy of every ghost pokemon is purusit users. Top of that list is ttar. odds are pretty good that fighting hp will be commonly used on shanderaa.(although probably needs a fair amount of boosts to take out heatran)

[KokoaKiwi]

Modest Shanderaa doesn't OHKO standard Tyranitar with HP Fighting, and Im pretty sure it won't OHKO Heatran, either. However, I still think of these 2 guys playing somewhat similar roles [implying a Shadow Tag ban, forcing Shandy go with the amazing Flash Fire].

Originally Posted by Fat ShinyAzelf

Nitro Charge is gonna be great for Heatran. Basically a Scarf Heatran after one Nitro Charge but still having a Life Orb boost and being able to change moves. That Heatran set is going to be pretty dominant.

Come in on anything that is not a threat to Heatran and then use Nitro Charge on whatever switches in, and that Pokemon will have to be prepared to be blasted by any of Heatran's powerful moves.

The fact that Explosion doesn't half the opponent's defense anymore isn't good for Heatran, because now it can't reliably take out Blissey.

Heatran is good but, no where near as good as you are attemting to make it sound. Heatran is going to have hell of a lot of problems. especially now that it is not the only good flash fire pokemon, a plethora of new fighting moves, auto rain dance from politoad, the ability sand throw allows ground and steels to get faster in sand so lots of things are stopping him from being the powerhouse he used to be

[M BLADE]

Too bad Heatran needs to rely on Hidden Power even more than before because of the nerfed Explosion.
It's usual counters are... even more counters now.

Heatran without HP Ice will be set up fodder for DD Dragonite, without HP Grass Swampert takes it down, withouth HP Electric blablabla.

I think Offensive Heatran will be less used (now it's basically Shanderaa job), giving space to more stallish sets Shanderaa could only wish to have.

[NeoSeth]

On the Nitro Charge set, I'd recommend Dragon Pulse over HP just for that perfect neutral coverage. That's often far more important than super-effective coverage (see: Salamence, Garchomp, Tyrannitar).

[KokoaKiwi]

How viable would a mixed Life Orb set be? Fire Blast / Stone Edge / HP Ice / Earthquake, for example?
Fire STAB, QuakeEdge hits almost everything for neutral damage, especially other Heatran, T-Tar, Gyara, and the like. HP Ice hits the dragons, dragons everywhere.
Also, Brave or Quiet nature could work with Trick Room Support, I guess. As much as I'd love to add explosion to the set, I'm not sure how useful could it be after being nerfed.

[Display]

Originally Posted by Fat Elfam

totally not true. the enemy of every ghost pokemon is purusit users. Top of that list is ttar. odds are pretty good that fighting hp will be commonly used on shanderaa.(although probably needs a fair amount of boosts to take out heatran)

I'd like to say you're wrong, because the Fire side is a lot more vulnerable, especially for Tyranitar. OHKO from Scarftar's Stone Edge is practically guaranteed. But then I consider how important it could be to get Shanderaa off the field at any cost.

Just makes me think Shadow Tag will be banned, to be honest...

[Gabe]

What can replace Explosion on the scarf set?

[STEELDRAGON]

Originally Posted by Fat KokoaKiwi

How viable would a mixed Life Orb set be? Fire Blast / Stone Edge / HP Ice / Earthquake, for example?

Unless it nab notable 2koes, like on it's counters, then it isn't going to be very viable. Heatran has decent attack though, base 90 attack. Heatran can 2ko most Tyrannitar with Earthquake. A good Ev set for that would be 252 Atk/128 SpA/128 Spe, with Life orb and a Naughty or Lonely nature. It outspeeds Tyrannitar so that you can beat it, if you predict right. And with the scarf sets, I think either Dragon pulse or Hidden power will take it's place.

[Wafflez]

Originally Posted by Fat Calm Pokemaster

Balloon wont be of much use, since any attack will pop it. FakeOut leads will pop BalloonTran. Better off with ShucaTran.

Yes but one problem.Your every day average Heatran,Gliscor,Tyranitar,Metagross and w\e B\W throws at us dont get fake out.Your going to loose to Infernape and Ambipom because they pack fighting type attacks so it dsn't really matter.I suppose if you are looking for better overall utility instead of beating other leads i do think Shuca might work better because Heatran tends to come in at midgame quite a lot to take a hit or two.


And im really not keen on a mix set...I mean what does it achieve other than 2hk0ing Tyranitar?I really dont see it having the potential that simple Special set has.

[VOLCANO]

Originally Posted by Fat STEELDRAGON

Set #1


@
Heatran @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid/Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
6 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
~Nitro Charge
~Fire blast
~Earth power
[/B]~Dragon Pulse/Hidden power ice/grass

With this set, Heatran can attempt to sweep, with 130 base Spa, and LO, it becomes pretty threatening. With a +1 boost it can outspeed pretty much everything with out a choice scarf. If it nabs a Flash fire boost, than barely anything can stand up to it's fire blasts. [B]

Whoever made set #1, THANK YOU VERY MUCH! Didn't think Nitro Charge was a big deal until I saw after one Nitro Charge it will boost Heatran's speed to 417 or 379 depending on Timid or Modest. I think Modest would be the best choice seeing as the only thing that won't outspeed this are Scarf users or Jolly Aerodactyl. Better to have your base 39 SpA more than 25 Spe, to ensure KOs better :D

[STEELDRAGON]

I put protect on the lead balloon set, so it can now take on most fake out leads. I don't take anybody's credit, but it appears that I was the creator of the LO Nitro charge set. I think Modest would be the better option because barely anything have over 379 speed, and they pokemon that outspeed heatran, are quite rare. LO aaerodactly is pretty rare, weavile is a bit more common, and crobat doesn't threaten. Heatran can take a Thunderbolt from Jolteon and hit back for the OHKO.

[Lucalibur]

it can be argued. which koes does he get with modest that he dont get with timid? i think outspeeding aero, jolt, weavile, crobat(hypnosis), scarf heracross(adamant ones) and other somewhat rare but still viable pokemons is more important then a small power boost.

[VOLCANO]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucalibur

it can be argued. which koes does he get with modest that he dont get with timid? i think outspeeding aero, jolt, weavile, crobat(hypnosis), scarf heracross(adamant ones) and other somewhat rare but still viable pokemons is more important then a small power boost.

Was too lazy to do some major calcs, but I thought making some calcs for Heatran be able to fare against Sazandora is gonna be pretty important in the new metagame:

Modest-natured 252 SpA EV'd Dragon Pulse does:
105% - 123% to Specs Sazandora before SR
119% - 140% to Specs Sazandora after SR

Timid-natured 252 SpA EV'd Dragon Pulse does:
95% - 112% to Specs Sazandora before SR
109% - 128% to Specs Sazandora after SR

I think I like my odds more from the Modest-Natured Heatran since it's GUARANTEED to kill. There's nothing worse having Sazandora living with a SLIVER of health as Specs Sazandora will SURELY take you out with Surf, or even the MixAndo set nailing you with EQ. I think STEELDRAGON will agree with me that taking out Sazandora is much more important than outspeeding Jolteon and a few RARE non-scarf users.

These calcs were figured using Marriland's Damage Calculator, which I compared to Serebii's AND Smogon's damage equations (which can be tedious LOL) THANKFULLY I must say that Marriland's was VERY accurate (within 1%) but that's most likely because I round down on all my equations just to make SURE they're conservative percentages. Life Orb WAS calculated into percentages, as it is KEY to nabbing most kills.

If anyone wants some more calcs done on Heatran just lemme know, but they'll probably take me a while to do since I double and maybe triple check them.

[STEELDRAGON]

I would definitely agree with VOLCANO, Sazando is appearing to be a major threat in the 5 generation, 125 base special attack, 105 base attack, 98 speed. It appears to be very dangerous, and I think Heatran should definitely have the power to OHKO Sazando. To note, heatran can't outspeed Scarf Sazando with either nature, against Sazando, Modest would be optimal

[HeavyOctillery]

Flame Body is pointless. Flash Fire will always be the go-to ability.

That said, it didn't get much of anything beyond Nitro Charge & Level Ground. It's probably one of the best users of the former, given all its resists, along with a well-tied Balloon. Explosion getting neutered hurts it a little, but not enough, I'd think. Its sig move also got a nice Accuracy boost on top of the up in # of trapping turns, which is great since it's the strongest damage-trap move in the game.

FloaTran (I called it) & SpecsTran sound like the two sets that'll be seen most often, with probably a few TrapTrans around.

[VOLCANO]

NitroTran, FloaTran, and TrapTran will hopefully see more usage than ScarfTran. I ran ScarfTran for over a year, so I am TOTALLY sick of it and am glad there are so many new or improved sets :D

[Wafflez]

Originally Posted by Fat STEELDRAGON

I put protect on the lead balloon set, so it can now take on most fake out leads. I don't take anybody's credit, but it appears that I was the creator of the LO Nitro charge set. I think Modest would be the better option because barely anything have over 379 speed, and they pokemon that outspeed heatran, are quite rare. LO aaerodactly is pretty rare, weavile is a bit more common, and crobat doesn't threaten. Heatran can take a Thunderbolt from Jolteon and hit back for the OHKO.

Yes but what fake out lead is going to use Earthquake?The only leads i can think of are Infernape,Ambipom and Weavile (I think theres more but my brain seems to have shut down right now cant think of ANYTHING >____>).All of theese either carry Low kick or Close combat....So what would you do with the Baloon?
And...The Sazando argument is kind of not viable because your probably going to have SR on the field anyway so does it matter?Timid is deffinetly a better option because of all the things you can outspeed.But i suppose thats just my oppinion.