Breloom

[Nastyjungle]

Originally Posted by Fat FerrariCUBU

As in that little bar swipes past that says "Pokemon X has Balloon" when they switch in?

Yes.

[Omnipresent]

Damn that sucks if that's true but I guess it would make sense.

You wouldn't throw your pokemon out, hit their poke on with an earthquake and be like "oh shit! I never knew he was floating by a freakin balloon!"

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

Why hit it with Rock Slide when it can just KO immediately with STAB EQ?

Because my dumbass completely forgot about Earthquake *face palm*

[PK Gaming]

Originally Posted by Fat Groshi

Breloom was my favourite pokemon competitively.

So, the choice of Poison Heal or Techinician?

One major factor is Bullet seed.

There is a 3/10 chance for it to hit 2 or 3 times, 2/10 times for it to hit 4 or 5 times.
The average. Calculated without STAB and Technician, then added Technician.

50x3+75x3+100x2+125x2
=150+225+200+250
=825

Average = 82.5

2.5 over Seed Bomb.

Yeah, it's overhyped, and unreliable.

However, Technician Adamant Mach Punch vs Neutral 0/0 Doryuuzu

Regular Poison Heal Adamant Mach Punch vs Neutral 0/0 Doryuuzu

Someone calculate those (the computer I'm using right now is messed up)

Use Spinda for the calculation. Same Defense.

Your math is off.

Technician + Stab Bullet = 56. (25X1.5=37.5. Do that again and you get 56, don't be lazy and do just X2)

so it's 56 hit's per hit.

1=56
2=112
3=168
4=224
5=280


He's hitting for 112 minimum.

[yiran]

No I just forgot to add Technician to the end result.

My bad. That's all.

[boyofrito]

subseed isn't THAT great. I personally LOVE my special breloom set that I made to use on shoddy.

Boyofrito SporeSlapper
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Speed Jolly
~Spore
~Wake-Up Slap
~Seed Bomb
~Stone Edge

Spore + WU Slap is a great combo, like focus punch, but faster and can also be used when the foe is awake.And don't worry about the waking up side affect, because if you were fast enough to outspeed your opponent on the first turn, you can do it again. Seed Bomb and Stone Edge are just standard coverage, and they work amazingly. I use this as my Lead

[J-T-E]

Originally Posted by Fat FerrariCUBU

Speaking of which, are there any other reliable counters/checks for Doryuuzu aside from Breloom?

Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Fighting, and Ground are all super-effective against Doryuuzu. And also, he has a higher physical defense than his special defence, so if he got hit by a hidden power of any of those types, you would most likely think that Doryuuzu would be KO'ed, as long as they have a high enough special attack.

Long story short bro, Breloom is awesome, but other's can also lay a good beating on Doryuuzu as long as they have a high enough special attack.

[Juice!]

Breloom is 100% staying OU. Breloom has always been one of my favourite Pokémon, I'm so stoked to try out TechniLoom. Probably going to run LO with Mach Punch, Bullet Seed, Spore, Swords Dance/Stone Edge. Probably SD, SD Technician STAB Mach Punch is fucking beast.

[Omnipresent]

Originally Posted by Fat J-T-E

Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Fighting, and Ground are all super-effective against Doryuuzu. And also, he has a higher physical defense than his special defence, so if he got hit by a hidden power of any of those types, you would most likely think that Doryuuzu would be KO'ed, as long as they have a high enough special attack.

Long story short bro, Breloom is awesome, but other's can also lay a good beating on Doryuuzu as long as they have a high enough special attack.

I think more so, but I could be wrong, he means what can switch in on him, take a hit and counter back.

Someone before said Hippowdon, Celebi (bar he has no X Scissor) can switch in him and threaten with Earth Power, hp Fire. Then again the latter is limited on usage.

Can't think of many off the top of my head (dinner is finally ready lol) but I'm sure he hates priority users as well.

[-Manaphy--]

Originally Posted by Fat J-T-E

Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Fighting, and Ground are all super-effective against Doryuuzu. And also, he has a higher physical defense than his special defence, so if he got hit by a hidden power of any of those types, you would most likely think that Doryuuzu would be KO'ed, as long as they have a high enough special attack.

Long story short bro, Breloom is awesome, but other's can also lay a good beating on Doryuuzu as long as they have a high enough special attack.

Doryuuzu is neutral to Grass and Ice, thanks to his Steel- Typing.

But yeah, Breloom is pro.

[DR809]

Wasnt there a thread regarding breloom?

[Eggbert]

Techniloom just doesn't sound too great. I'd rather get a sub back in two turns. Plus, hitmontop can do the same thing, just with close combat, fake out, and sucker punch. Breloom should stick to what it does best; wrecking havoc with spore and sub.

[-Manaphy--]

Originally Posted by Fat DR809

Wasnt there a thread regarding breloom?

I searched for it, and found none.

So no.

[lmitchell0012]

Technician is a cool new ability that breloom got this gen, but it doesn't change the fact that there are still many things that wall you completely. I think that the sub-spore set will still be the standard this gen, because I would rather put something instead of getting walled all day.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by Fat Eggbert

Techniloom just doesn't sound too great. I'd rather get a sub back in two turns. Plus, hitmontop can do the same thing, just with close combat, fake out, and sucker punch. Breloom should stick to what it does best; wrecking havoc with spore and sub.

Hitmontop doesn't have dual STAB, though. I really like how monstrously powerful Bullet Seed becomes with Technician, with Gen 5 boosting its BP to 25 and all. Breloom might be able to run something like this:

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
252 Att/252 Speed/4 Sp. Def

Mach Punch
Ankle Sweep/Spore
Stone Edge/Spore
Bullet Seed

Ankle Sweep is a double-whammy; it brings fliers down a Speed tier so that he can hit them with Stone Edge, AND it gets the Technician boost. A major problem I've always had with Stone Edge on Breloom was that everything with wings ended up being faster than him and could KO right away, regardless of whether or not he had it. I mean, he's so slow, Zapdos only needs like 16 EVs on a neutral nature to outspeed him. Now, if it tries to stick up for Blissey, who's about to get her shit RUINED, Loom can just laugh and throw a giant boulder at it.

Only problem I'm seeing is, once again, Shandera. :( With that out of the picture, though, Breloom could finally be a legitimate OU threat outside of its subpunching set! That makes me happy. :)

[-Manaphy--]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

Hitmontop doesn't have dual STAB, though. I really like how monstrously powerful Bullet Seed becomes with Technician, with Gen 5 boosting its BP to 25 and all. Breloom might be able to run something like this:

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
252 Att/252 Speed/4 Sp. Def

Mach Punch
Ankle Sweep/Spore
Stone Edge/Spore
Bullet Seed

Ankle Sweep is a double-whammy; it brings fliers down a Speed tier so that he can hit them with Stone Edge, AND it gets the Technician boost. A major problem I've always had with Stone Edge on Breloom was that everything with wings ended up being faster than him and could KO right away, regardless of whether or not he had it. I mean, he's so slow, Zapdos only needs like 16 EVs on a neutral nature to outspeed him. Now, if it tries to stick up for Blissey, who's about to get her shit RUINED, Loom can just laugh and throw a giant boulder at it.

Only problem I'm seeing is, once again, Shandera. :( With that out of the picture, though, Breloom could finally be a legitimate OU threat outside of its subpunching set! That makes me happy. :)

Shanderaa gets OHKO'd if Bullet Seed hits 3 Times with Stealth Rock is in Play, so Shanderra isn't as much as a threat a she may seem.

[Green Thunder]

Originally Posted by Fat boyofrito

subseed isn't THAT great. I personally LOVE my special breloom set that I made to use on shoddy.

Boyofrito SporeSlapper
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Speed Jolly
~Spore
~Wake-Up Slap
~Seed Bomb
~Stone Edge

Spore + WU Slap is a great combo, like focus punch, but faster and can also be used when the foe is awake.And don't worry about the waking up side affect, because if you were fast enough to outspeed your opponent on the first turn, you can do it again. Seed Bomb and Stone Edge are just standard coverage, and they work amazingly. I use this as my Lead

Um if you fight under the sleep clause this is horrible, if you don't, they can just switch to almost any faster fire or flying type and get rid of breloom AND Zoroark is getting pretty popular and can kill breloom if your opponent uses it as a lead, alot of flaws with this set :/

[Farukon_o_miru]

Some Spikes+StealthRock can make more easy for Breloom to end with Shanderaa as it is weak to SR and can´t levitate, but even without Spikes with only SR can be hard for Shanderaa to switch in without being OHKOed by StoneEdge or BulletSeed, or putted to sleep by Spore, it can only switch in without risk when Breloom is using Mach Punch or Ankle Sweep.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by Fat -Manaphy--

Shanderaa gets OHKO'd if Bullet Seed hits 3 Times with Stealth Rock is in Play, so Shanderra isn't as much as a threat a she may seem.

If I come in on Blissey, or a weakened sweeper, I'm not using Bullet Seed, lol. Shandera is going to be a huge pain in the ass for Loom, make no mistake about it.

[Ace Emerald]

Originally Posted by Fat J-T-E

Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Fighting, and Ground are all super-effective against Doryuuzu. And also, he has a higher physical defense than his special defence, so if he got hit by a hidden power of any of those types, you would most likely think that Doryuuzu would be KO'ed, as long as they have a high enough special attack.

Unless it's changed, I believe dory's defences are 110/60/60. Special and pysical are exactly the same.

Anyways, I did some calculations forever ago when I first heard of tech breloom countering dory, and this is what I found: breloom without an attack boosting item cannot always OHKO four hp dory. It gets worse with small defence investments. Now I did do these calcs a while ago, but I am fairly sure I remember them correctly. If someone wants to double check, be my guest.

[IkEr_14]

I think Techniloom is quite good,mach punch is a good priority move to abuse,with many new pokemons with fighting weakness like zoroark, sasando and many others.
The only problem I see is Shandera,walling almost everything in Techniloom set, but maybe with stealthrock or spikes breeloom can KO shandera. In some matches I notice something, using bullet seed actually have a risk, if someone predict bullet seed and send nattorei each hit will activate steel thorns making big damage and with rugged helmet breloom will take more or less 50% to 70% of health.

[the voice of reason]

According to my calculations, I'm getting an average base power of almost 122 before stab on bullet seed. After stab, 184. Does this sound right to you? Because that sounds impossibly high to me...

[JeffreyLebowski]

Is rock tomb a viable move over stone edge? Even after technician, its quite a bit weaker, but it has some interesting side effects

[SJCrew]

Ankle Sweep already does that, with a higher BP and STAB to boot. You really want the power to hit defensive fliers like Zapdos hard or they'll just KO.

[jchen]

Originally Posted by Fat Groshi

Breloom was my favourite pokemon competitively.

So, the choice of Poison Heal or Techinician?

One major factor is Bullet seed.

There is a 3/10 chance for it to hit 2 or 3 times, 2/10 times for it to hit 4 or 5 times.
The average. Calculated without STAB and Technician, then added Technician.

50x3+75x3+100x2+125x2
=150+225+200+250
=825

Average = 82.5

2.5 over Seed Bomb.

Yeah, it's overhyped, and unreliable.

Bullshit.
A) the %'s are 3/8, 3/8, 1/8, 1/8 im pretty sure
B) you forgot Technician
2 hits =75 BP
3 hits =112.5 BP
4 hits =150BP
5 hits =187.5 BP
Seed Bomb =80BP
All WITHOUT factoring in STAB
3/8*75+3/8*112.5+1/8*150+1/8*187.5
=112.5 AVERAGE BP for bullet seed.
on average you do 40+% more damage with bullet seed. 62.5% of the time you do significantly more damage with bullet seed than you do with seed bomb. for those 37.5%, you lose SIX PERCENT damage.
There is almost no drawback to running bullet seed over seed bomb with potentially huge(225%) dividends. Assuming Technician ofc, not going into debate about poison heal in this post.

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

Looks to me like Breloom hasn't changed a bit in the new gen. But with Spore it doesn't need to, right?