Charmander

[Banryu]

CHAR~!

Name: Charmander
Type:

Base Stats:
HP: 39
Attack: 52
Defense: 43
Speed: 65
Sp. Atk: 60
Sp. Def: 50

Abilities:
Blaze - The power of this Pokemon's Fire-type attacks increase when its HP falls below 1/3rd.
Solar Power (Dream World) - The Pokemon's Special Attack increases by 1.5x while in sunlight, but the Pokemon's HP decreases every turn.

Movepool:
Level-Up:

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1. Scratch
1. Growl
7. Ember
10. Smokescreen
16. Dragon Rage
19. Scary Face
25. Fire Fang
28. Bursting Flame
34. Slash
37. Flamethrower
43. Fire Spin
46. Purgatory - Fire-type; Special; 100 BP; 50 Accuracy; 5 PP; Effect: 100% chance to Burn.

Black & White TM/HM:

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TM01 Claw Sharpen - Dark-type; Other; BP / Accuracy: --; 15 PP; Effect: Raises the user's Attack and Accuracy one level each.
TM02 Dragon Claw
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM27 Return
TM28 Dig
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM40 Aerial Ace
TM42 Facade
TM43 Nitro Charge - Fire-type; Physical; 50 BP; 100 Accuracy; 20 PP; Effect: Raises the user's Speed one level.
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Sing a Round
TM49 Echo Voice
TM50 Overheat
TM56 Fling
TM59 Incinerate
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM75 Swords Dance
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Rock Smash
HM01 Cut
HM04 Strength

Egg Moves:

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Belly Drum
Ancientpower
Bite
Outrage
Beat Up
Dragon Dance
Crunch
Dragon Rush
Metal Claw
Flare Blitz
Counter
Dragon Pulse
Focus Punch

Gen IV Exclusive Moves:

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Headbutt
Fire Punch
Thunderpunch
Fury Cutter
Snore
Swift
Heat Wave
Mud-Slap

Potential Sets:
1. SolarMander @ Berry Juice / Expert Belt

Nature: Timid
EVs: (WIP)
Ability: Solar Power
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Grass
- Rock Slide / Dragon Pulse
- Dragon Dance / Nitro Charge

• Solar Power raises Charmander's Special Attack to a whopping 22
• Shallow but workable Special movepool
• Fire Blast + HP Grass has good neutral coverage
• Fire/Grass is resisted by Fire (plus Mantyke) and Dragon; handled by Rock Slide and Dragon Pulse respectively
• can use Dragon Dance to become more of a sweeper, also boosts Rock Slide's power
• can use Nitro Charge for more Special-ized sets, but is blocked by Flash Fire
• reliant on sunlight for damage output, so weak to weather-inducers, whether automatic or otherwise; Vulpix support would help a ton
• best Solar Power user in Little Cup (the only other being Sunkern)
• loses to priority

2. Dragon Dancer (physical)
Charmander @ Life Orb / Berry Juice
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 44 HP / 180 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Ability: Blaze
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Brick Break
- Thunderpunch

• Only Fire-type to get Dragon Dance, beats Bronzor and Teshiido more easily than Dragon-type DDers
• mostly same as 4th Gen DDmander

3. Nitro Dance Charmander @ Berry Juice / Life Orb / Salac Berry
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 44 HP / 180 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Ability: Blaze
- Swords Dance
- Nitro Charge
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute / Fire Punch / Flare Blitz

• Only LC Poke other than Torchick to get SD + Nitro Charge
• unique because Charmander has better offensive coverage than Torchic, the other LC Poke to get said combo (Torchic gets Speed Boost anyway, LOL)
• Substitute helps for setup when used in the last slot, but Fire Punch or Flare Blitz is an option too if you don't want to rely on Nitro Charge's poor BP (Fire Punch needs to be transferred from Gen IV, but is compatible with Nitro Charge TM)
• still ridiculously priority-weak

Sooo, with Charmander's new toys, might it have the chance to shine? Being the only Solar Power user in Little Cup and the best Nitro Dancer (LOL Torchic has Speed Boost anyway) give it some things that make it unique, which lord knows it was lacking last generation...

Discuss!

[Darkamber8828]

Mantyke doesn't resist Grass.

Does Charmander kill Pururiru (the water/ghost) with Thunderpunch at +1? +1 with LO? +2?

Solar Power Charmander actually looks pretty cool. I wouldn't bother with Sunny Day, Charmander needs Vulpix.

[PlatinumDude]

Charmander can't learn Dragon Pulse, so it can't really handle other Dragons that well other than AncientPower.

[Ramblin Wreck]

Banryu: Base Special Attack is 60, not the actual stat. Its actual stat with a Timid nature is 15. So.... 22, not 90.

[Banryu]

Originally Posted by Fat Darkamber8828

Mantyke doesn't resist Grass.

No, but it has a ridiculous special defense stat. :0 And thus it's better to hit it supereffectively and, if possible, physically. I ran a Scarf Charmander set in 4th Gen that had basically the same moves, but also with Overheat... it couldn't kill Mantyke with HP Grass, but landed a solid 2HKO (with the switchin) with Rock Slide.

Originally Posted by Fat Darkamber8828

Does Charmander kill Pururiru (the water/ghost) with Thunderpunch at +1? +1 with LO? +2?

I haven't tested anything yet... so no calcs. :0 If I can find a damage calculator that has 5th Gen Pokemon in it, though, I'll be sure to get some calcs up here.

Originally Posted by Fat Darkamber8828

Solar Power Charmander actually looks pretty cool. I wouldn't bother with Sunny Day, Charmander needs Vulpix.

I agree though, I think Solar Power Charmander looks pretty darn epick. And I think you're right about the Vulpix thing. :0 Suppose maybe I should slash Dragon Pulse and Ancientpower in that last slot in place of SD.

Originally Posted by Fat PlatinumDude

Charmander can't learn Dragon Pulse, so it can't really handle other Dragons that well other than AncientPower.

It can't, huh. :0 I guess someone hasn't checked Charmander's new egg moves...

[Banryu]

Bump!

Give Charmander some love.

[Destiny Warrior]

Originally Posted by Fat Banryu

DDer most capable of eliminating Bronzor and Tesshiido

Not true. I think Zuruggu beats them better, as it can keep setting up DDs on Bronzor, and can keep itself healed with Drain Punch.

[Chou Toshio]

Meh, still seems outclassed by some combination of magby/houndour/dratini like last gen. Add in some new dragon dancers too . . .

[Arch]

He's still a fairly situational Dragon Dancer. It's been said time and time again that he has some niches against some top defensive threats, but not much else.

He did get some toys like Nitro Charge and Solar Power, but his lack of reliable priority hurts.

I'm not sure a sub on Charmander is a good idea, as Solar Power is going to really hinder survivability. I thought a mixed set might be viable in the sun, as Solar Power generally covers your Sp.Atk stat so you can invest in Atk and Speed. I'm on the wall about the decision between Dragon Dance / Nitro Charge for that set though. I'll post a set later. maybe.

[Banryu]

Lack of priority sucks, agreed. Dx Charmander will pretty much always die to it. ;__;

I think you're right about Sub, though. 1/8th HP from Solar Power each turn means Charmander has only 8 turns to sweep (LOL good luck surviving that long anyway), and Sub cuts it down to six if you're running that. :0 I hadn't considered that when I put it. Someone mentioned using Sunny Day on Solarzard in the Charizard thread as a means to stop auto-weather Pokes switching in, what do we think about that? Will Hippopotas and Snover (LOL) be enough to warrant it? ...probably not.

But yeah, the more you mention it, the more I think a mixed Solar Power set could be really good. :O Maybe something along the lines of this?

- Fire Blast
- HP Grass
- Rock Slide (Dragon Pulse)
- Dragon Dance (Nitro Charge / Overheat)

I give the option of being mixed or special, although I think Mixed is probably best. My biggest concern with it is that Charmander's base stats are pretty weak, meaning it's gonna have a tough time being mixed, but Solar Power and DD's boosts make up for that a little, at least. Last gen, I ran a Scarf Charmander with Flamethrower/HP Grass/Rock Slide/Overheat, and it worked really well; Rock Slide KO'd any Flash Fire switchins, and netted a clean 2HKO on Mantyke switchins that didn't have Oran. With a DD boost, even a minimally-invested Charmander should be able to 2HKO any Mantyke, and max Speed +1 Charmander will outspeed most Scarfers (faster ones like Gastly and Mankey still outspeed).

I really like this set, good thinking, Arch. Changing the Solar Power set in the OP to this.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see these other posts... responses are as follows.

Originally Posted by Fat Destiny Warrior

Not true. I think Zuruggu beats them better, as it can keep setting up DDs on Bronzor, and can keep itself healed with Drain Punch.

True, perhaps. :0 Maybe this makes the SolarMix set better than the physical DD one, though.

Originally Posted by Fat Chou Toshio

Meh, still seems outclassed by some combination of magby/houndour/dratini like last gen. Add in some new dragon dancers too . . .

For the most part, yeah, but Magby/Houndour don't get boosting moves, and Dratini struggles with Bronzor/Teshiido, so there's that. As for the new DDers, Zuruggu has been mentioned, and I agree with that. But Kibago is plagued by the same curse as Dratini, and what's more, it's even more useless against Steels (Dig is its only move to hit them).

[pharaohcalvin]

Just as a note, it does have priority in the form of quick attack, not a very good one but it does get it from the birthday charamnder events from Japan.

[Darkamber8828]

Originally Posted by Fat pharaohcalvin

Just as a note, it does have priority in the form of quick attack, not a very good one but it does get it from the birthday charamnder events from Japan.

Isn't it level 40 when it gets it?

[pharaohcalvin]

Originally Posted by Fat Darkamber8828

Isn't it level 40 when it gets it?

That is true, now that you mention it, never mind carry on.

[Banryu]

Yeah, Quick Attack Charmander is ineligible for Little Cup. :0 Man, we only wish he got it... SD/DD + Fire Punch + DClaw + Quick Attack would kick so much more ass than anything else Charmander does... x___X

But no, Charmander doesn't get it, and thus it gets raped by any priority attack not named Ice Shard. :\

[pharaohcalvin]

Yep, I went and looked it up once it was mentioned that is should be lvl 40 and it was, sorry about the mistake.

[Plusle]

Charmander can't use Solar Power from the DW as all Charmanders are Male.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83972

[TM13IceBeam]

^Huh? Wasn't that unconfirmed in the OP? So how does it prove your point that all Charmanders are male?(They do have a 7:1 gender ratio, but it doesn't mean that you can't get a female Charmander.)

[Elevator Music]

Check the sticky at the top of the page.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83972

Originally Posted by Fat Vader

Credit to iss for bringing this to my attention

Released Dream World event Pokemon

Since all of the event Pokemon are Level 10 or above and the female must have the Dream World ability to pass it on, event Dream World Pokemon are illegal in Little Cup. Therefore, do not use any of the following Pokemon with Dream World abilites:

Bulbasaur (Chlorophyll)
Charmander (Solar Power)
Squirtle (Rain Dish)
Croagunk (Poison Hand)
Turtwig (Shell Armor)
Chimchar (Iron Fist)
Piplup (Competitive Spirit)
Treecko (Unburden)
Torchic (Speed Boost)
Mudkip (Damp)

Other Dream World abilities that have been released are legal.

[Banryu]

Ach. Sucks ass for Charmander, say goodbye to one much-need improvement to his reportoire.

/delayed

[NeoSeth]

He still has DD. I've found it to be pretty good with all the Steel-types running around (FIRE PUNCH YEAAAHH). Slowpoke is a pain though.

[Darkamber8828]

Originally Posted by Fat NeoSeth

He still has DD. I've found it to be pretty good with all the Steel-types running around (FIRE PUNCH YEAAAHH). Slowpoke is a pain though.

Steel-types eh?

Zuruggu used "g'day mate"

I guess you could use it on a sun team. Charmander has a more reliable super-powerful STAB move too.

It's also more immune to burns.

And Flare Blitz is cool for activating Blaze if priority doesn't fuck you over.

I wanted Solar Power >_>

[Banryu]

Thunderpunch can be used for Slowpoke, but Evo stone and Slowpoke's natural bulk (and Charmander's crappy Attack) still makes that pretty difficult, yeah....

I wanted Solar Power too. Dx I liked that mixed set I came up with... ;__; (DD/Flamethrower/HP Grass/Rock Slide w/ Solar Power)

[Arch]

That mixed set could have been a really great opportunity for him to be a respected mixed attacker. Unfortunately, I think his usage is going to drop even lower this generation with the new best DD'er that does his niche better, Scraggy.

[masterful]

A Specs set could be interesting with the Solar Power boost, as the recoil damage is not that enormous and SR isn't as ubiquitous in LC as it is in maybe OU.

[Banryu]

Originally Posted by Fat masterful

A Specs set could be interesting with the Solar Power boost, as the recoil damage is not that enormous and SR isn't as ubiquitous in LC as it is in maybe OU.

EDIT: Wait... what? No! Little Cup Charmander doesn't get Solar Power. Dx Therefore this is out of the question. Sorry. =___=

Originally Posted by Fat Arch

That mixed set could have been a really great opportunity for him to be a respected mixed attacker. Unfortunately, I think his usage is going to drop even lower this generation with the new best DD'er that does his niche better, Scraggy.

Agreed. :\ What a shame. v__v

Well the good news is that if LC ever is divided into tiers, Charmander has a better chance of not being outclassed in a lower tier... :D'