Weather in VGC11 - Page 2

kingofkongs · Feb 24th, 2011, 2:56:34 PM

The problem with hail is that all the abusers are week to Chandalure's heat wave. Since around 44% of teams run one, that's a pretty bad weakness to have. On the other hand, Daikenki could be a decent hail abuser. Since it has base 108 special attack and resists heat wave, it seems like a great option for hail teams.

XKiDxSLyX · Feb 24th, 2011, 8:51:21 PM

It's safe to say Daikenki is gonna be a pain to go against in this metagame, also take into consideration the fact that it has priority with aqua jet and if ran right could really abuse torrent

Chilebowl · Feb 26th, 2011, 3:09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat XKiDxSLyX

It's safe to say Daikenki is gonna be a pain to go against in this metagame, also take into consideration the fact that it has priority with aqua jet and if ran right could really abuse torrent

Daikenki does indeed have potential in this metagame but with its base speed at 70 its a tad faster than most of the pokemon in trick room teams and still quite slow compared to other mons that are used outside of trickroom unless you invest heavily in speed. Aqua jet does give Daikenki a nice advantage over most pokemon with its priority but others like roobushin and mienshao does priority alot better, and to even get that boost from torrent you're getting daikenki to such a low amount of health where it becomes very easy for your opponent to knock out daikenki.

Imo daikenki should be ran on a team that can support it or that can benefit greatly from it like a hail team or a tailwind team, even a goodstuffs team can use on with the proper set.

Daikenki does have potential, but can very well be dealt with when using a solid team and strategy, but hey that's just my two cents.

~~mudkipmaster~~ · Feb 26th, 2011, 3:13:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat kingofkongs

The problem with hail is that all the abusers are week to Chandalure's heat wave. Since around 44% of teams run one, that's a pretty bad weakness to have. On the other hand, Daikenki could be a decent hail abuser. Since it has base 108 special attack and resists heat wave, it seems like a great option for hail teams.

Daikenki also learns Blizzard which is super effective against--brace yourself--a whole third of the metagame.
As for myself, I don't have a hail team, but a Rain team. Rain isn't my main team, trick room is.

Mentlegen · Mar 13th, 2011, 12:45:11 AM

This is definitely a stupid question, but if you have trick room up other weather effects can still be happening, correct?

So potentially one could set up a Trick room while the opponent is abusing Rain? Or would it remove the rain weather condition?

Human · Mar 13th, 2011, 12:46:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mentlegen

This is definitely a stupid question, but if you have trick room up other weather effects can still be happening, correct?

So potentially one could set up a Trick room while the opponent is abusing Rain? Or would it remove the rain weather condition?

Rain and Trick Room can occur simultaneously.

Blades · Mar 13th, 2011, 5:07:05 AM

I'll bet the prevalence of weather will go severely down in this VGC due to lack of insta-weather Pokemon. It was a viable strategy before because you could guarantee it's play by simply having the pokemon on your team. This is not the case now and that one turn set up may have a lot of people seriously considering dropping weather strategies from their VGC lineup. Just Sayin'.

Da Letter El · Mar 13th, 2011, 6:18:47 AM

While it's true that it may be "less viable" in a sense, I would not say that it is not viable, either. Trick room took a turn to set up, and yet was still a very popular and successful team in VGC 10. While you can argue that weather matters less than completely changing the speed ordering, I think that you can't discredit weather simply on the grounds that it takes a turn to set up and isn't unlimited now, despite those certainly being disadvantages. On the bright side, though, it encourages intelligent choice in who is your weather pokemon instead of limiting it down to tar, obama, kyogre or groudon, possibly leading to more team cohesion. Add in that the opponent doesn't get instant weather either, and it's more likely that the weather effect that you want to be up will stay up.

evan · Mar 13th, 2011, 6:26:52 AM

The problem with weather is a lack of really excellent abusers. Sand has Excadrill and Landorus which are okay, but Exca's speed boost gets negated by Trick Room which is far more common this meta than last and Landorus tends to hit plenty hard without the Sand boost. Rain helps out Surf abusers and Water Spout Jellicent but takes a turn to use and most Rain Dance mons have better things to do (exception: Tornadus and Thundorus love Rain boosting Hurricane and Thunder respectively). Sun has Liligant acting like Jumpluff with Chlorphyll and Sleep Powder and can be used to boost Chandelure and Volcarona's Heat Waves but also compounds weaknesses to Fire (Whimsicott, Lilligant).

And the less said about Hail this meta the better.

For the most part, Rain and Sun remain the most viable weathers with Rain still being the strongest. However, the addition of the Elemental Jewels makes the boosting effects of Rain and Sun less important when you can just slap on a Water Jewel on Samurott to get a stronger Surf without wasting a turn to set up. They aren't dead, but they're much more supplementary this year rather than something you would base a team around.

Feb 24th, 2011, 8:51:21 PM	#27
XKiDxSLyX Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31	It's safe to say Daikenki is gonna be a pain to go against in this metagame, also take into consideration the fact that it has priority with aqua jet and if ran right could really abuse torrent __________________ Check out my YT: http://www.youtube.com/user/AceTrainerBlu3

Mar 13th, 2011, 12:45:11 AM	#30
Mentlegen Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 509	This is definitely a stupid question, but if you have trick room up other weather effects can still be happening, correct? So potentially one could set up a Trick room while the opponent is abusing Rain? Or would it remove the rain weather condition? __________________ I like it better this way.

Mar 13th, 2011, 6:18:47 AM	#33
Da Letter El Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,882	While it's true that it may be "less viable" in a sense, I would not say that it is not viable, either. Trick room took a turn to set up, and yet was still a very popular and successful team in VGC 10. While you can argue that weather matters less than completely changing the speed ordering, I think that you can't discredit weather simply on the grounds that it takes a turn to set up and isn't unlimited now, despite those certainly being disadvantages. On the bright side, though, it encourages intelligent choice in who is your weather pokemon instead of limiting it down to tar, obama, kyogre or groudon, possibly leading to more team cohesion. Add in that the opponent doesn't get instant weather either, and it's more likely that the weather effect that you want to be up will stay up. __________________ [01:05] <DixieNormous> Rodan x pookar: Just Do It

Feb 24th, 2011, 2:56:34 PM	#26
kingofkongs Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 694 a fistful of quarters	The problem with hail is that all the abusers are week to Chandalure's heat wave. Since around 44% of teams run one, that's a pretty bad weakness to have. On the other hand, Daikenki could be a decent hail abuser. Since it has base 108 special attack and resists heat wave, it seems like a great option for hail teams.

Mar 13th, 2011, 5:07:05 AM	#32
Blades Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 124	I'll bet the prevalence of weather will go severely down in this VGC due to lack of insta-weather Pokemon. It was a viable strategy before because you could guarantee it's play by simply having the pokemon on your team. This is not the case now and that one turn set up may have a lot of people seriously considering dropping weather strategies from their VGC lineup. Just Sayin'.

Mar 13th, 2011, 6:26:52 AM	#34
evan I did my best -- I have no regrets Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,261	The problem with weather is a lack of really excellent abusers. Sand has Excadrill and Landorus which are okay, but Exca's speed boost gets negated by Trick Room which is far more common this meta than last and Landorus tends to hit plenty hard without the Sand boost. Rain helps out Surf abusers and Water Spout Jellicent but takes a turn to use and most Rain Dance mons have better things to do (exception: Tornadus and Thundorus love Rain boosting Hurricane and Thunder respectively). Sun has Liligant acting like Jumpluff with Chlorphyll and Sleep Powder and can be used to boost Chandelure and Volcarona's Heat Waves but also compounds weaknesses to Fire (Whimsicott, Lilligant). And the less said about Hail this meta the better. For the most part, Rain and Sun remain the most viable weathers with Rain still being the strongest. However, the addition of the Elemental Jewels makes the boosting effects of Rain and Sun less important when you can just slap on a Water Jewel on Samurott to get a stronger Surf without wasting a turn to set up. They aren't dead, but they're much more supplementary this year rather than something you would base a team around.