dude - game over! viva las vegas!

[Bass]

Alright then, I don't really mind sharing some room with LonelyNess because there are five spots, but since there is not much time until the polls are closing, I propose this simple solution to reduce some of the confusion on who to vote for, as well as to make sure that our votes are not so divided that we end up letting a more unified mafia have representation on the council.

First of all, since both LN and I have been trying to unify the Boardwalk, albeit separately, we should BOTH be on every Boardwalker's ballot.

Then, since it is very clear that LN and I are working separately and have our own "trust circles", make the third choice a random person from the group you slightly trust more. That is, UncleSam or zerowing for LN, or Veedrock or askaninjask for me.

To reiterate

Bass
LonelyNess
Aska/Veed or zerowing/US

(Also, we aren't supposed to post role PMs, so I wouldn't put that into the equation as far as figuring out which group you trust more)

[UncleSam]

Not for anything Bass, but given that the mafia can get about 1/3 votes for three different people based on agreements between them, and if people truly voted at random for the third spot there, then the mafia would get 3/5 council spots (because each of the aska/veed/zerowing/me would get 1/4 vote per boardwalk person). Seems to me that is highly counterproductive.

Now obviously I would prefer to get on the council but I would rather Boardwalkers in general were voted on than that we split our vote between potentially SIX candidates. One of you and LN needs to figure out who is leading, and the other needs to step down.

At BEST we will end up with one man from each mafia on the council with your plan, and if even one of those people are also mafia, the mafia would also have a majority.

Basically I don't think Boardwalkers should follow Bass' plan at all.

I would also like to officially appeal for longer deadlines for this period due to it being arguably more important than any given day period. Due to the majority of the game not being able to do jack shit during regular day periods, more emphasis should be put on these election periods. Particularly on Black Friday for Americans, I feel we should be allowed an additional 24 hours to sort through this.

EDIT: Also, hosts, for the record I didn't know we couldn't post role pms until just now, please don't godkill LN because I don't think it was made sufficiently clear (yes I know it was in size 40 font in the anon forums, but no one said anything here...).

[Bass]

Let me respond to certain points here and justify my reasoning for parts of my proposal.

Originally Posted by Fat UncleSam

Not for anything Bass, but given that the mafia can get about 1/3 votes for three different people based on agreements between them, and if people truly voted at random for the third spot there, then the mafia would get 3/5 council spots (because each of the aska/veed/zerowing/me would get 1/4 vote per boardwalk person). Seems to me that is highly counterproductive.

First of all, I am not asking people to pick the last spot in random necessarily. I am merely stating that since some people will find one group of leadership to be more trustworthy than the other, then they should give more weight to that particular group when casting their ballot. Though I suppose you are right in that naming two different people for each such group isn't a good idea, so perhaps one person instead (ie just Veedrock for me and you for LN).

And yes, if every villager does this, then both LN, myself, and one of those two will almost be guaranteed to be on the council if every villager votes (assuming that the boardwalk is the majority, of course).

Now obviously I would prefer to get on the council but I would rather villagers in general were voted on than that we split our vote between potentially SIX candidates. One of you and LN needs to figure out who is leading, and the other needs to step down.

If you read the OP, then you would know that the true purpose of the five person council is to give more than one person the opportunity to lead. This is a very reasonable task given that villagers can nominate three people instead of just one. Additionally, both LN and I have different ideas on how to lead, and to be honest, even though LN (illegally) posted his role PM, nobody is 100% clean at this point, myself included. However, I think given the circumstances, at least one of us likely is, so therefore we should both be on the council.

At BEST we will end up with one man from each mafia on the council with your plan, and if even one of those people are also mafia, the mafia would also have a majority.

No plan, no matter how you slice it, will guarantee that the mafia will not have the majority, so what you are saying is a moot point honestly. Since more than one person wants to lead, if we fight it out and urge people to vote for one group and NOT the other, then the villagers will be too split up in their votes and thus, that would increase the chances of a mafia majority, assuming both LN and I are village. Finally, if every villager includes both LN and myself on the ballot, then it will be easier to determine which council members were NOT elected by the village (again, assuming every villager follows instructions). In a nutshell, I think that while we should allow multiple people to lead, we must at least make sure the village ballot is as uniform as possible for the reasons stated above.

Finally, with all of that said, I would like to make one important point, particularly in regards to claiming roles. LN can choose to lead the way he wants, but I do not think publicly claiming your role is a good idea because it will put you in danger if your alias gets inspected. Case in point, in the previous 2v1 game (Absolution), I was allied with one of the mafia, and Brain fully disclosed his role to me (completely unaltered). While he never posted with nor revealed his alias, we managed to inspect one with the same exact role as the one he had given out, and after that he did not last very long. Thus, while it might be a good idea to give a vague description of your role in certain cases, it is best not to reveal too much, or you might be putting your life in danger. This is especially critical for anyone who wants to step up and lead.

EDIT: tldr, the revised ballot should be like this:

Bass
LonelyNess
UncleSam (if you prefer LN) / Veedrock (if you prefer me)

[zorbees]

Hmm, I don't really want to waste the opportunity for a d1 lynch, so I will say this: LonelyNess is not to be trusted. I have an information-based role, and know that LN is lying about his role. I'm not going to post my full Role PM, or give details on how I know this, but I warn you it is true. I don't care if I get on the Council or not; I would like to, as I know I am a villager, but I don't really care. I urge everyone not to claim to LN, and not to vote him to the council.

[UncleSam]

Not for anything zorbees, but given that there are about 20 (or so) mafia and any one of them could step up to slander any of the major leaders with impunity, why should we trust you?

I will admit I am only really defending LN because he proposed me as a candidate, but I would still love a little bit of reasoning as to how he "lied" before taking anything you say seriously.

[CaptKirby]

Godkilling LonelyNess would be absolute bullshit. He read the rules, which said that no exchanging on night ZERO. The rules were changed at random and it was not edited into the actual rules post, although even if it had been, he was going off the rules he KNEW. We should not be held hostage by retroactive rule addendums implemented well after the game is already underway, especially not just because the rules were not initially thought through well enough.

[dak]

judgement over whether to godkill or not will be made later today when shade arrives

however, there is one thing i can confirm so far:

LonelyNess' posted PM is a complete 100% fake.

[Yeti]

hey guys since you can't post role PMs and thus I don't even have to fake anything I'd just like to claim whatever role LN is claiming and say he is not the Boardwalk member he says he is I am so I don't care if I get on the Council or not but I'd like to be but I don't care just saying LN is a liar but I have no proof.

sounds a lot like zorbees don't it

[Mekkah**]

lol

[dak]

Given the circumstances we feel that it is inappropriate to godkill LonelyNess, however as we feel that not punishing him at all is not fair either, it is hereby announced that:

LonelyNess is not allied with the Boardwalk

(i bet you read that ln........)

[Raikage]

Tried to keep this short but it is simply not possible.

Would just like to alert the villagers to a potential problem.

With the new system, people no longer have to expose their aliases to be relevant during the day. This can be a problem for us villagers (I am one, but I guess most people won't believe me). Basically, any old mafia guy can step up and claim as village leader (assuming he has a reasonable PM). Then he simply proceeds to get his mafia mates elected, and lynches us off for the next few days.

This is possible because the new system doesn't require any public voting or the like. True, in the old lynch system a mole leader can easily lead and then give us a fake target, but in the process they usually have to give out their alias to a large number of people. If anything goes wrong we can simply lynch the leader. In the current situation (this is just hypothetical), a convo can go like this

<Leader> alright we're lynching shade and dak as they are benders
<Leader> nominate lonelyness zerowing and unclesam as they are trustworthy men
<Villager> ok

Oh wait, this just happened! There is absolutely no accountability whatsoever, because all the mafia moles have to do is get themselves elected, then lynch off villagers and say 'the other guys did it' due to the secret council. Even if that fails, we don't know their aliases! They do not have to give out their alias to get villagers lynched.

In addition, a real village leader would definitely have to do alias swaps, because he has to gather the aliases and PMs (not full PMs, but even roles help) of everyone to figure out WHO IS WHO on the player list. On the other hand, Lonelyness and the rest have barely bothered to make any alias swaps, as far as I know. I know he hasn't approached me and a few others, and neither has Bass. On the other hand, a fake leader doesn't have to do this: he knows who's on his team and is simply going to kill off everyone else, without swapping any aliases and risking himself.

As far as I'm concerned, this can only mean that that LN and Bass are mafia, and we have just discovered LN is indeed mafia. Maybe I'm wrong and Bass has been trying, in which case Bass is not nearly as implicated. But otherwise, it is clear that any potential village leader must give out his alias and make himself accountable for his lynches. Otherwise, the village has 0% chance of winning.

[Amelia]

Wait, Raikage was in the game?

Well, i would give out my name and my alias, but sadly i'm a neutral and thus not interested at all.

With that said, i might as well announce it out here. I'm an item improver. My goal is to improve three items total. If you're interested, ring me on MIRC. I can gladly give you my alias to take the item, but be aware that i will need your alias as well to give back the item!

Of course, there are huge benefits to this. Firstly, you get an improved item. I can't say how important this is, since i don't know how items get improved, but rest assured that if i can improve the item, i'll pass it back to you. Next, you get an alias out of the game once i win. Less complications!

Unfortunately, there are limitations as well. I cannot improve all items (of course). I take time to improve the items. But if you trust me to send me the item, i'll ensure that it goes back to you.

Thieves do not bother applying, i am steal-proof.

[UncleSam]

Well, this looks bad...

I am a member of the Boardwalk, but I don't expect anyone to believe it at this moment. Hopefully, through my actions, I can prove that I am innocent. That being said, I cannot fathom why LN would nominate me for the council when he knew I was a Boardwalk member.

[Jackal]

will the real village leader please stand up.

[dak]

not nearly enough votes to end the day in time, extended till about 11 am gmt

[Bass]

Don't you guys dare put me on the same boat as LonelyNess.

Though I will admit he almost convinced me until seeing dak's announcement.

Originally Posted by Fat UncleSam

Well, this looks bad...

I am a member of the Boardwalk, but I don't expect anyone to believe it at this moment. Hopefully, through my actions, I can prove that I am innocent. That being said, I cannot fathom why LN would nominate me for the council when he knew I was a Boardwalk member.

Because you and zerowing would vote whatever he asked.

[LonelyNess]

Alright I guess being outted as a mole is better than getting godkilled.

[CaptKirby]

well now you can godkill him, I certainly do not care anymore!

[Bass]

Ok, let us use this ballot then:

Bass
Veedrock
zorbees

After what LN did, however, I guess I should justify my choices so you can understand my reasoning here.

Obviously I am picking myself because I am a villager (and yes, anyone can just claim that, but it is something that nobody can really disprove either at this point). I also have a little bit more information than other villagers because I was the only person who has gathered some claims besides LN (though I will mention that LN had far more than me). In order to make at least a decent decision on the council, at least one member must be somewhat informed.

Next, zorbees gets an obvious mention because he helped out LN. He could be a member of the other mafia, but for now I think he is somewhat trustworthy.

Lastly, Veedrock is one of the first people that I have talked to, and after listening to his claim, it seems reasonable enough. Again, since we cannot share full role PMs, nothing is guaranteed at this point, but I want you all to know that these are not "backroom deals" or anything.

As far as UncleSam and zerowing, they are not fully outed, but being part of LN's list without him publicly stating his justification for it brings suspicion onto them. I would appreciate it if they talked to me to clarify this a little more.

Make sure to remove LN from your ballot if you haven't already.

[UncleSam]

Not for anything Bass, but it would seem that Yeti is cleaner than you are because the village is almost guaranteed to have a hooker.

Why not :
-zorbees
-Yeti
-Bass/veedrock

If people split their votes randomly between bass/veedrock, then they should still get voted on the council, and the village can afford one of them to be a mole.

I would rather see zorbees and yeti be guaranteed "ons" than anyone else at this point though.

[billymills]

He probably nominated you because you're so easily manipulated.

[UncleSam]

I'm so crushed you think so billy.

Wait no I'm not.

[Veedrock]

[UncleSam]

I take back what I said about Yeti...that being said, I don't think it is a good idea for everyone to just elect the people Bass wants elected.

Does anyone else want to step up?

[Veedrock]

Hi.