Dragonite (Analysis) - Page 2

~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ · Dec 21st, 2010, 10:03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat lulzer

Due to Multi Scale, survives almost any Dragon-type attack, even +1 Jolly 252 Atk EVs Ononokusu's Outrage, falling only to +1, +SpA, 252 SpA EVs Latios' Draco Meteor on OU, but this one is outsped and OHKO outright;

Ononokusu has Mold Breaker.

GameMaster0000 · Dec 21st, 2010, 10:32:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pokémon Trainer R

Ononokusu has Mold Breaker.

Arr...that make me get pause....

Has anyone tested this yet?

lulzer · Dec 21st, 2010, 10:32:43 PM

I just did... Mold Breaker sent Dnite to grave...
Added DD Ononokusu to OHKO stuff on the Anti-Dragon set

ChaosNebula · Dec 21st, 2010, 11:12:01 PM

I need to ask this question.. how well does Choice Scarf Dragonite work?

I have never seen such a set, and I am quite interested on how well it can do.

PlainN · Dec 21st, 2010, 11:52:38 PM

I just ran into a Evo Stone Chansey with the Choice Band set. Brick Bread did about half so you should take that out as a possible move to hit Chansey Harder (than EQ); you're better off just Outraging. It only really hits T-Tar and Balloon Dory Harder (than EQ), but those two in of themselves are such huge threats.

Also, I disagree that offensive DD is outclassed by Salamence and Ono. Which one of them can guarantee a free Dragon Dance (assuming Leftovers and no SR) or two if the opponent switches.

Finally, is it really necessary to have Draco Meteor, Outrage, AND Ice Beam on the "Dragon Slayer" set (which sounds awesome by the way)? Might as well have another coverage move over Ice Beam so Dnite doesn't sit around after he did his job.

lulzer · Dec 22nd, 2010, 10:32:12 AM

@xxyzx: I tested that Scarfed Set (Dragon Slayer) and yes, you need Ice Beam to OHKO Chomp. The thing is just a monster when it boils down to OHKO Dragon-types, it's just ridiculous. As long as it isn't Ononokusu or Latios, +1 will never OHKO Dnite, but most cases he will just outspeed and OHKO anyway. And also, thanks for the Chansey tip!
@network: Like Scarf Tar? I didn't use it, only the Scarf Set I posted. But seeing as similar DNite became with TTar, I believe it will work in a similar fashion.

Banryu · Dec 22nd, 2010, 5:44:20 PM

Where is the rain sweeper set consisting of Gale + Thunder + Surf + Roost/Dragon Pulse/Agility? That one seems to be pretty good as well as pretty popular for Rain teams, and these are probably the moves that should be used on the 'Special Attacker' set.

Adrialberto · Dec 22nd, 2010, 6:11:45 PM

I think that instead of suggesting to use Dragonite with other dragons to soften up counters in the main Additional Comments part, there could be a different section talking about the Double Dragon strategy and how to make the most of it using Dragonite+other Dragon-type.
I'd probably use a strong dragon at first, such as Ononokusu, Salamence or Grachomp (sticking with physical dragons because of the shared counters) to punch the holes, and then Dragonite, being bulky and all to finish everything up. That's what I'd mention in the OP.

It'd be nice to get opinions on this.

PlainN · Dec 22nd, 2010, 10:13:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat lulzer

@xxyzx: I tested that Scarfed Set (Dragon Slayer) and yes, you need Ice Beam to OHKO Chomp. The thing is just a monster when it boils down to OHKO Dragon-types, it's just ridiculous. As long as it isn't Ononokusu or Latios, +1 will never OHKO Dnite, but most cases he will just outspeed and OHKO anyway. And also, thanks for the Chansey tip!
@network: Like Scarf Tar? I didn't use it, only the Scarf Set I posted. But seeing as similar DNite became with TTar, I believe it will work in a similar fashion.

So can Draco Meteor and/or Outrage not do that? It just seems redundant is all I'm saying although I haven't tried that set yet.

~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ · Dec 23rd, 2010, 12:52:07 AM

On a rain attacker, I'd personally use Brick Break, Extremespeed, Hurricane and Surf, with Leftovers, a Rash nature, 4 EVs in Attack, 252 EVs in Special Attack and 252 EVs in Speed. Brick Break is extremely useful for nailing Tyranitar on the switch, as this Pokémon very often likes to come in against such a Dragonite and cancel out the rain, creating a very annoying situation for the Dragonite's trainer in my opinion. Thunder or Draco Meteor over Extremespeed is optional, although I'd personally go with Extremespeed as this move can be very helpful in many situations from my experience.

Also, I cannot really see the point of Ice Beam on the Choice Scarf moveset. Dragonite's Draco Meteor deals more damage to Garchomp than Ice Beam does, and not to mention Garchomp holds Yache Berry over ten times more often than Haban Berry according to statistics.

lulzer · Dec 23rd, 2010, 11:28:17 AM

Ok, made some more changes, if anyone with experience in those rainy sets could help me with the details and also check the EV spreads, I'd be grateful!

Forte.EXE · Dec 23rd, 2010, 2:02:56 PM

I really don't see the point in so many Speed EVs for the Rain Dance set, even with Timid. Adamant Doryuuzu is rarely seen since so many people prefer to Speed Tie with other Doryuuzu in a worse-case scenario. If anything, you should be using just enough EVs to out-speed Latios or Shaymin-S after an Agility.

Banryu · Dec 24th, 2010, 5:14:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pokémon Trainer R

On a rain attacker, I'd personally use Brick Break, Extremespeed, Hurricane and Surf, with Leftovers, a Rash nature, 4 EVs in Attack, 252 EVs in Special Attack and 252 EVs in Speed. Brick Break is extremely useful for nailing Tyranitar on the switch, as this Pokémon very often likes to come in against such a Dragonite and cancel out the rain, creating a very annoying situation for the Dragonite's trainer in my opinion. Thunder or Draco Meteor over Extremespeed is optional, although I'd personally go with Extremespeed as this move can be very helpful in many situations from my experience.

Also, I cannot really see the point of Ice Beam on the Choice Scarf moveset. Dragonite's Draco Meteor deals more damage to Garchomp than Ice Beam does, and not to mention Garchomp holds Yache Berry over ten times more often than Haban Berry according to statistics.

I'm not so sure about the other attacks, but it sounds to me like Brick Break would make an excellent slash in that last slot that I was a little indecisive about. However, I think the standard core of Gale/Thunder/Surf should probably remain unchanged.

~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ · Dec 24th, 2010, 8:28:34 PM

Thunder isn't that useful except for against Gyarados from my experience. It is very much a considerable option though.

Banryu · Dec 25th, 2010, 4:50:58 PM

Generally speaking, Thunder is the best option against Steel-types (since Fire is weakened by Rain), isn't it? At least if you're going all special.

~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ · Dec 25th, 2010, 10:38:15 PM

Surf does more damage to Steel-type Pokémon than Thunder in the rain.

Ahhhhhh......Clefable. · Dec 25th, 2010, 10:45:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pokémon Trainer R

Surf does more damage to Steel-type Pokémon than Thunder in the rain.

But Thunder is more useful against opposing Water-types, who otherwise could give you problems.

Charmander · Dec 25th, 2010, 11:22:14 PM

holy god that's a lot of sets.

too bad Multi-Scale is illigal with Roost and Heal Bell, that ruins everything. This is extremely minor, but you want all the four leftover EVs to go into SpD because Genosect and Porygon-Z will most likely Ice Beam, so you want them to get the attack boost

Adrialberto · Dec 25th, 2010, 11:30:32 PM

Actually, Roost is legal with Multi-Scale as stated several times in this very same thread. Heal Bell is the illegal one.

And Dragonite SpD is already naturally higher than its DEF so, the extra 4 EVs can be placed anywhere.

Charmander · Dec 26th, 2010, 1:50:55 PM

Oh yeah forgot abou that, my bad.

And how is Roost legal when Stealth rock isn't legal on Damp Swampert?

The Agonist · Dec 26th, 2010, 2:04:42 PM

dragonite learns roost by itself, at level 1 iirc

Also, at the OP, on the rain mixed attacker, this made me lol

Quote:

EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 5 Atk

November Blue · Dec 27th, 2010, 6:08:49 AM

[SET]
"Swiftnite" (parashuffling tanker lead)
move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roost
ability: Multiscale
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
Evs: 244 HP / 88 SpDef / 176 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Early scouting with dragon tail.
Spreads paralysis, and can function as a phazer midgame.
Extremely potent with toxic spikes support.
Hp EVs hit dragonites highest leftovers number, allowing maximum leftovers recovery.
Speed EVs hit 240, outspeeding adamant breloom and blocking spore with substitute. The rest are invested in special defense to tank ice beams and draco meteors.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Almost nothing is able to OHKO this set.
Foiled by taunters, but phazes them away.

Could you please add this to the analysis?

lulzer · Dec 27th, 2010, 9:47:51 AM

Ok, i afk for 1 holiday and so much feedback appeared.
@The Agonist: oopsy...
@rain sets: Thunder is better suited to slay Foretress and Skarm, Surf is for the rest, yet, only Gale can hit the dreaded iron bush of doom, so as long as Gale and 1 of those attacks is there, you are good to go. The choice is mostly like this: you need a way to take down bulky waters go with Thunder, you want to counter some of the metagames most common threats (Blazi, Shanderaa, Chomp and Doryuuzu to some extent) go with Surf. I believe this covers many stuff on the rain DNite.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it comming!

GameMaster0000 · Dec 27th, 2010, 11:37:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat -Charmander-

Oh yeah forgot abou that, my bad.

And how is Roost legal when Stealth rock isn't legal on Damp Swampert?

Because roost now is include in Dnite LV up move pool while Srock not in Swampert.

But seriously, Who will use Damp(Damn)Swam? Torrent is far better.

lulzer · Dec 28th, 2010, 4:02:47 PM

Well guys, I think we covered everything or someone still got something to add or change or anything?

Dec 21st, 2010, 10:32:43 PM	#28
lulzer Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 78	I just did... Mold Breaker sent Dnite to grave... Added DD Ononokusu to OHKO stuff on the Anti-Dragon set Last edited by lulzer; Dec 21st, 2010 at 10:57:06 PM.

Dec 21st, 2010, 11:12:01 PM	#29
ChaosNebula Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 207 The Network.	I need to ask this question.. how well does Choice Scarf Dragonite work? I have never seen such a set, and I am quite interested on how well it can do. __________________ Blood will be spilled, and souls will be torn away. _________________________________________ Transformice Players - "I WHIP MY TAIL BACK AND FORTH!"

Dec 22nd, 2010, 5:44:20 PM	#32
Banryu Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,506	Where is the rain sweeper set consisting of Gale + Thunder + Surf + Roost/Dragon Pulse/Agility? That one seems to be pretty good as well as pretty popular for Rain teams, and these are probably the moves that should be used on the 'Special Attacker' set. __________________ ~ -=ASB Trainer Profile=- ~ Winning like Charlie Sheen

Dec 23rd, 2010, 2:02:56 PM	#37
Forte.EXE Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 584	I really don't see the point in so many Speed EVs for the Rain Dance set, even with Timid. Adamant Doryuuzu is rarely seen since so many people prefer to Speed Tie with other Doryuuzu in a worse-case scenario. If anything, you should be using just enough EVs to out-speed Latios or Shaymin-S after an Agility. __________________ RMT (Dream World OU): After the Rain... (Peaked #32) RMT (Gen V UU): Under the Sun, We Were Gods (Peaked at #34) RMT (Gen V UU): Weather Report: Sand Incoming (Peaked at #17) RMT (Gen V UU): One Terrier to Rule the Tier (Peaked at #26)

Dec 25th, 2010, 4:50:58 PM	#40
Banryu Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,506	Generally speaking, Thunder is the best option against Steel-types (since Fire is weakened by Rain), isn't it? At least if you're going all special. __________________ ~ -=ASB Trainer Profile=- ~ Winning like Charlie Sheen

Dec 21st, 2010, 11:52:38 PM	#30
PlainN Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 93	I just ran into a Evo Stone Chansey with the Choice Band set. Brick Bread did about half so you should take that out as a possible move to hit Chansey Harder (than EQ); you're better off just Outraging. It only really hits T-Tar and Balloon Dory Harder (than EQ), but those two in of themselves are such huge threats. Also, I disagree that offensive DD is outclassed by Salamence and Ono. Which one of them can guarantee a free Dragon Dance (assuming Leftovers and no SR) or two if the opponent switches. Finally, is it really necessary to have Draco Meteor, Outrage, AND Ice Beam on the "Dragon Slayer" set (which sounds awesome by the way)? Might as well have another coverage move over Ice Beam so Dnite doesn't sit around after he did his job.

Dec 22nd, 2010, 10:32:12 AM	#31
lulzer Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 78	@xxyzx: I tested that Scarfed Set (Dragon Slayer) and yes, you need Ice Beam to OHKO Chomp. The thing is just a monster when it boils down to OHKO Dragon-types, it's just ridiculous. As long as it isn't Ononokusu or Latios, +1 will never OHKO Dnite, but most cases he will just outspeed and OHKO anyway. And also, thanks for the Chansey tip! @network: Like Scarf Tar? I didn't use it, only the Scarf Set I posted. But seeing as similar DNite became with TTar, I believe it will work in a similar fashion.

Dec 22nd, 2010, 6:11:45 PM	#33
Adrialberto Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 39 Argentina	I think that instead of suggesting to use Dragonite with other dragons to soften up counters in the main Additional Comments part, there could be a different section talking about the Double Dragon strategy and how to make the most of it using Dragonite+other Dragon-type. I'd probably use a strong dragon at first, such as Ononokusu, Salamence or Grachomp (sticking with physical dragons because of the shared counters) to punch the holes, and then Dragonite, being bulky and all to finish everything up. That's what I'd mention in the OP. It'd be nice to get opinions on this.

Dec 23rd, 2010, 12:52:07 AM	#35
~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 137 Darkness	On a rain attacker, I'd personally use Brick Break, Extremespeed, Hurricane and Surf, with Leftovers, a Rash nature, 4 EVs in Attack, 252 EVs in Special Attack and 252 EVs in Speed. Brick Break is extremely useful for nailing Tyranitar on the switch, as this Pokémon very often likes to come in against such a Dragonite and cancel out the rain, creating a very annoying situation for the Dragonite's trainer in my opinion. Thunder or Draco Meteor over Extremespeed is optional, although I'd personally go with Extremespeed as this move can be very helpful in many situations from my experience. Also, I cannot really see the point of Ice Beam on the Choice Scarf moveset. Dragonite's Draco Meteor deals more damage to Garchomp than Ice Beam does, and not to mention Garchomp holds Yache Berry over ten times more often than Haban Berry according to statistics.

Dec 23rd, 2010, 11:28:17 AM	#36
lulzer Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 78	Ok, made some more changes, if anyone with experience in those rainy sets could help me with the details and also check the EV spreads, I'd be grateful!

Dec 24th, 2010, 8:28:34 PM	#39
~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 137 Darkness	Thunder isn't that useful except for against Gyarados from my experience. It is very much a considerable option though.

Dec 25th, 2010, 10:38:15 PM	#41
~~Pokémon Trainer R~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 137 Darkness	Surf does more damage to Steel-type Pokémon than Thunder in the rain.

Dec 25th, 2010, 11:22:14 PM	#43
Charmander Mission Complete Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,690 Great Falls, VA Mentor	holy god that's a lot of sets. too bad Multi-Scale is illigal with Roost and Heal Bell, that ruins everything. This is extremely minor, but you want all the four leftover EVs to go into SpD because Genosect and Porygon-Z will most likely Ice Beam, so you want them to get the attack boost __________________

Dec 25th, 2010, 11:30:32 PM	#44
Adrialberto Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 39 Argentina	Actually, Roost is legal with Multi-Scale as stated several times in this very same thread. Heal Bell is the illegal one. And Dragonite SpD is already naturally higher than its DEF so, the extra 4 EVs can be placed anywhere.

Dec 26th, 2010, 1:50:55 PM	#45
Charmander Mission Complete Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,690 Great Falls, VA Mentor	Oh yeah forgot abou that, my bad. And how is Roost legal when Stealth rock isn't legal on Damp Swampert? __________________

Dec 27th, 2010, 6:08:49 AM	#47
November Blue Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,465	[SET] "Swiftnite" (parashuffling tanker lead) move 1: Dragon Tail move 2: Substitute move 3: Thunder Wave move 4: Roost ability: Multiscale item: Leftovers nature: Careful Evs: 244 HP / 88 SpDef / 176 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Early scouting with dragon tail. Spreads paralysis, and can function as a phazer midgame. Extremely potent with toxic spikes support. Hp EVs hit dragonites highest leftovers number, allowing maximum leftovers recovery. Speed EVs hit 240, outspeeding adamant breloom and blocking spore with substitute. The rest are invested in special defense to tank ice beams and draco meteors. [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Almost nothing is able to OHKO this set. Foiled by taunters, but phazes them away. Could you please add this to the analysis?

Dec 27th, 2010, 9:47:51 AM	#48
lulzer Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 78	Ok, i afk for 1 holiday and so much feedback appeared. @The Agonist: oopsy... @rain sets: Thunder is better suited to slay Foretress and Skarm, Surf is for the rest, yet, only Gale can hit the dreaded iron bush of doom, so as long as Gale and 1 of those attacks is there, you are good to go. The choice is mostly like this: you need a way to take down bulky waters go with Thunder, you want to counter some of the metagames most common threats (Blazi, Shanderaa, Chomp and Doryuuzu to some extent) go with Surf. I believe this covers many stuff on the rain DNite. Thanks for the feedback and keep it comming!

Dec 28th, 2010, 4:02:47 PM	#50
lulzer Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 78	Well guys, I think we covered everything or someone still got something to add or change or anything?