Most Overrated 4th Gen Pokemon in OU?

[jrrrrrrr]

Salamence was definitely the most overrated pokemon, not just in Gen 4 OU, but out of any tier in any gen ever. Banning it was a huge turning point for this community, and it turned suspect testing into a way for people to ban popular things instead of identifying broken tactics for a more competitive metagame. It was the epitome of the absurd "overcentralizing" argument that was brought up in gen 4, showing that the voters value quantity over quality. The fact that people had issues with Salamence after spending years trying to deal with Garchomp and Lati@s baffles me to this day. Salamence has no longevity, it's destroyed by almost every priority move, was forced to use a Life Orb to hurt anything, and was SR weak in a metagame where the move was basically mandatory for teams. It was a solid pokemon that could dent teams that played against it poorly, but when I came back and found out it got voted Uber I literally laughed out loud.

#2 most overrated in my opinion was Gengar. Ghost was a terrible attacking type, Focus Blast is the worst move in the game, it was Pursuit weak, couldn't beat anything with even a modest SpDef stat, and had 4 moveslot syndrome to boot...but it was still everywhere. It's only real advantage was its 3 immunities, at least after Hypnosis' accuracy was dropped. Good thing Rotom-A came along and showed Gengar what's up.

As for the people saying Scizor...I'd put him high on the list but I think he's actually rated quite well. He got Bullet Punch, Superpower and Bug Bite later on in gen 4 and those moves are all excellent fits for him.

If we're talking about "gen 4" including discussion before it was actually released, then Rhyperior would take the cake. IIRC, Jumpman made a thread called "How do you kill this thing?", citing its decent typing, the new sandstorm spdef boost, and Solid Rock (combined with the first real evidence of a power creep). It was scary, before everyone realized that everything got moves with insanely high base powers that could 1-2hko it. Then we realized Solid Rock wasn't as good as we thought when you're weak to everything. Then we realized that Stone Edge was the second worst move in the game.

[smashlloyd20]

I wonder why nobody has mentioned Dusknoir. Honestly what can he do that Skarm or Forry can't? He has pain Split...but Skarmory has Roost. Really the only decent thing about him is that he can actually hurt things.

[SJCrew]

^ Reliably counter Machamp. He also has a really awesome SubPunch set that I'm surprised hadn't caught on sooner. Sub on something that doesn't threaten you (a lot of things), Focus Punch Heatran switch-ins, burn walls and stall them out with repeated attacks, and finish sweepers with priority. It's probably his best set at the moment actually, as it still makes very good use of his bulk and allows him to pull his weight by checking and outright killing things without being terribly prone to setup.

[JeffreyLebowski]

I feel obliged to defend dusknoir, because like, my favorite pokemon. the standard wall set still works well enough (but suffers 4 slot syndrome very much.) aside from that, shadow sneak is a 2hko on starmie, gengar and starmie, who wont be able to hurt it badly enough to cripple (cause of how noir is going first and all).

also, as noted above, his sub punch set is reaaaaally, reeeaaallly, good

[Atticus]

as an offensive player it pains me to say this but it has to be offensive gyarados. it had a 2 month moment of glory during DP with the dawn of LO gyara but after that it honestly wasn't worth using. simply way too easy to shut down with pretty much any bulky water minus pert

[EonADS]

Weavile can't be overrated, because everyone underestimates it.

Still sticking to Scizor. Most people seem to think that Scizor is impossibe to stop once its hardcore counters are eliminated, and it's just not true. And I have yet to face an intelligent user of SD Scizor.

[LizardMan]

Originally Posted by Fat Atticus

as an offensive player it pains me to say this but it has to be offensive gyarados. it had a 2 month moment of glory during DP with the dawn of LO gyara but after that it honestly wasn't worth using. simply way too easy to shut down with pretty much any bulky water minus pert

I agree with this. DD Gyara is simply walled/checked too easily. Rest/Talk Gyarados is legitimate though.

Bulky Gyarados is good for beating Stall however, if you can Pursuit Rotom.

Offensive Gyarados and DD Kingdra is one of my favorite offensive combos. Just have DD Kingdra weaken the bulky waters/defensive Rotom, and Gyarados can clean up more easily.

[Eraddd]

People who keep on talking about how Flygon is overrated, they haven't properly used it before. Flygon is not Garchomp; he's not meant to be used to power through or weaken walls and sweep through teams with ease. He's meant to be your early go to guy, to see what kind of counters they bring in, especially to scout for dragon counters, and Earthquake immune/Outrage or U turn resistant pokemon (mainly steel types), to clear the way another sweeper that depends on them to be gone. He works well in conjunction with sweepers such as Salamence, who share the same weaknesses, and with Magnezone, who can trap those steels who try to switch into Flygon. One of the best combos I've used was Scizor and Flygon together; their ability to use U-Turn keeps the momentum on your side and can play some major mind games on your opponent. In the late game, he can also work as a sweeper, using Outrage to power through weakened pokemon and give your team a win.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by Fat EonADS

Weavile can't be overrated, because everyone underestimates it.

Thank you. That was probably the smartest thing said this entire thread.

[Alan]

I feel obliged to defend dusknoir, because like, my favorite pokemon. the standard wall set still works well enough (but suffers 4 slot syndrome very much.) aside from that, shadow sneak is a 2hko on starmie, gengar and starmie, who wont be able to hurt it badly enough to cripple (cause of how noir is going first and all).

also, as noted above, his sub punch set is reaaaaally, reeeaaallly, good

Nicknamed "Sucknoir" for a reason. Also the fact that a STAB SE Move is ONLY a 2HKO against Starmie says something. Starmie hurts it with H-Pump. Its completely outclassed by Rotom-A who gets a secondary STAB, better ability, and a much better movepool, as well as stats.

Originally Posted by Fat Atticus

as an offensive player it pains me to say this but it has to be offensive gyarados. it had a 2 month moment of glory during DP with the dawn of LO gyara but after that it honestly wasn't worth using. simply way too easy to shut down with pretty much any bulky water minus pert

I'd be tempted to agree with this, except I wasn't around for early DP so I never really used LO Gyara, but I can see your argument.

I completely agree with SDS about Pert. I was going to post it, but he beat me to it. Pert was kind of good because it had great resistances / stats etc. But it had no recovery outside of Rest. It also couldn't prevent Skarm or Forry from setting up Spikes against you, so it sucked against Stall. Against offense it wasn't really too difficult to overpower, same way you did in advance, a suprise grass attack, only in DPP lots of stuff learned Grass Knot or anything with a mediocre or better special attack could run HP Grass and take it out and boom, sweep as you please. So yeah, a dead weight.

I wouldn't say Dusknoir, Weavile, E-Vire (early Plat E-Vire you could def make a case for, what with Rotom-A completely walling it but still being popular), Mamoswine etc being overrated, because nobody really thought much of them. They were the "ones who shouldn't be" OU.

[muffinhead]

I think that Scizor is the most overrated Pokmon because it is stopped by every bulky water, Zapdos, Rotom if not using pursuit, etc etc etc. On top of that, it's extremely predictable and Heatran is on every freaking team and yeah. Scizor sucks.

[undisputed]

I agree with the swampert and offensive gyara mentions. One I'd like to throw out there is jolteon. It was never with using for me and did relatively little when I played it. It's pretty terrible actually.

[Athenodoros]

I would say that Jolteon was undisputed. But seriously, that thing was hopeless. Only served to check DDGyara, but I always ran Jolly anyway.

[T-Dogg]

I'm going to have to say Flygon. Yes, its fast with its Choice Scarf and yes, it was a fairly good scouter. But seriously, this thing just never had enough power, and I really can't understand why it was so common, especially when it was so very predictable.

[Jcpdragonx]

Before I used it, I though Vaporeon was overrated, but when I used it as a cleric, it was the most reliable Pokemon I ever used.

The most overrated in my opinion was definetly Heatran. It has terrible weaknesses in ground, fighting and water which didn't make it very difficult to kill. Almost every bulky water or something with high SpDef could switch into it.

[Kid Kadabra]

Almost every bulky water or something with high SpDef could switch into it.

Something with high SpD=Bliss or Snorlax, the latter rarely being used. Of course, blissey can switch into a special attacker. Is that really so amazing that a special attacker is walled by Blissey? In fact, Heatran is not even walled, due to the fact that it has explosion, and thus the ability to explode in the face of the big pink blob.

What makes heatran so good in part is its typing, its movepool, and its stats. Heatran can be used as a wall, a revenge killer, and many things in between. It is by no means overrated; its esteem is justified.

[More Cowbell]

Why does everyone say stuff like Weavile, Electivire and Dusknoir were overrated? Barely anyone ever used it, and I have never heard someone say ''omg evire is liek da best wallbreaker evaa''. Stuff being overrated would be (just an example): ''Heatran was so overrated, because it could countered by half of OU, yet everyone used it''. Just an example, not saying it is true (hell, Heatran was my most used Gen IV Poké, appearing on practically every team I made).

Anyways, most overrated is, I think, Swampert.Sure, it could lay SR, but that was about it. It's defences just didn't cut it most of the time, and its attack was pretty meh too, especially mixed. And don't get me started about its speed.

[Kid Kadabra]

Anyways, most overrated is, I think, Swampert.Sure, it could lay SR, but that was about it. It's defences just didn't cut it most of the time, and its attack was pretty meh too, especially mixed. And don't get me started about its speed.

You're complaining about the speed of a wall. Come on, you could also be complaining about the speed of Forretress, Blissey, and a hell of a lot of other things.

[Donny Mae.]

Either Swampert or Salamence. Salamence was good, but once it used one move, you could tell what set it was running by either lo recoil (or lack of it). Swampert had no recovery, the SS immunity was nice, but everything else was meh. I used a sleep talker, with waterfall/curse and it was okay at best...

[Moo]

Lucario is overrated. It's a dangerous sweeper, but it gets beaten by Gyarados or priority :p

[EpicTurtle]

Originally Posted by Fat Kid Kadabra

You're complaining about the speed of a wall. Come on, you could also be complaining about the speed of Forretress, Blissey, and a hell of a lot of other things.

The only thing is, Pert doesn't have a reliable recovery while Forrestress has Pain Split (alright it's not that good, but it's a decent option), and Blissey has... every recovery move it could ask for.

That would mean Pert needs SOME speed to be more useful, since relying on Rest would make it outclassed by Gyra.

May I add, with Pert's speed, A lot of things can Taunt it and prevent it for SRing.

[boredomisbliss]

Gonna repeat what a lot of other people are saying

I'm gonna say Gengar and Flygon, because people actually thought those things were good
When I was using SubSplit Gengar because people told me OMG it can beat Blissey!!! I tried it, but Blissey would always break my sub, and I'd have to predict if it would attempt to paralyze me or attack me. Not to mention whenever I got Blissey under 40% Focus Blast would miss. Same goes for the scarf set when Focus Blast would miss.

Flygon: Remember when people used Flygon to revenge DDMence, when it would basically speedtie? And 252 neutral doesn't hit that hard at all, it's not like its U-turn was hitting anywhere as hard as Scizor, and both its STABs had a drawback (one easy immunity and locking in). Also, the scarf set was going to be either setup bait for Skarmory or miss the ability to revenge Gyarados reliably.

[BKC]

Originally Posted by Fat EpicTurtle

The only thing is, Pert doesn't have a reliable recovery while Forrestress has Pain Split (alright it's not that good, but it's a decent option), and Blissey has... every recovery move it could ask for.

That would mean Pert needs SOME speed to be more useful, since relying on Rest would make it outclassed by Gyra.

May I add, with Pert's speed, A lot of things can Taunt it and prevent it for SRing.

Forretress doesn't use Pain Split on any one of its sets. The only Forretress with recovery I think anyone has ever seen was in Taylor's stall team, which had Rest (in conjunction with Blissey's Aromatherapy, might I add).

Not everything in the world has Taunt, Pert uses something that can't touch it as an opportunity to set up rocks (Shuca Tran, who can do nothing but Explode, and that doesn't even kill).

[skullzie]

Originally Posted by Fat Alan

I wouldn't say Dusknoir, Weavile, E-Vire (early Plat E-Vire you could def make a case for, what with Rotom-A completely walling it but still being popular), Mamoswine etc being overrated, because nobody really thought much of them. They were the "ones who shouldn't be" OU.

I don't really think Mamoswine belongs in that sentence. :/ I've never really even seen it suggested that Mamoswine shouldn't be OU... I can see why its not high OU, and its not fit for every team, but its very useful. Even more so before a certain couple of dragons went uber. Other than that I mostly agree, although Dusk and Weavile can be useful at teams. Evire is lol.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by Fat boredomisbliss

Gonna repeat what a lot of other people are saying

I'm gonna say Gengar and Flygon, because people actually thought those things were good
When I was using SubSplit Gengar because people told me OMG it can beat Blissey!!! I tried it, but Blissey would always break my sub, and I'd have to predict if it would attempt to paralyze me or attack me. Not to mention whenever I got Blissey under 40% Focus Blast would miss. Same goes for the scarf set when Focus Blast would miss.

Flygon: Remember when people used Flygon to revenge DDMence, when it would basically speedtie? And 252 neutral doesn't hit that hard at all, it's not like its U-turn was hitting anywhere as hard as Scizor, and both its STABs had a drawback (one easy immunity and locking in). Also, the scarf set was going to be either setup bait for Skarmory or miss the ability to revenge Gyarados reliably.

That's the problem with Flygon. He's too easy to set up on. I was convinced for a moment that he'd actually manage to do something useful on one of my recent teams, but the amount of setups he opened for dangerous stuff like Lucario was ridiculous (didn't help that my team was Lucario weak at the time either >_>).