Moody (Ubers Edition) - Page 3

Farewell · Jan 28th, 2011, 2:44:02 PM

Well. 7x14 = 98%

because 7x10 = 70, + 7x4= 28, therefore 70 + 28 = 98

calze6 · Jan 28th, 2011, 7:35:36 PM

Actually, no. Otherwise, you are saying after 8 goes, you will always get a speed boost which isn't true. Another problem is that an evasion boost also greatly gives the likelihood of sweeping as well.

ShinySuicune · Feb 21st, 2011, 5:10:52 AM

Don't ban Inconsistent. Theres only a 1/7 chance for the evasion boost >_> if it's "too hax reliant"you guys wouldv'e banned Shaymin-S + Jirachi LOOOONNGGG AGO.

TM13IceBeam · Feb 21st, 2011, 6:41:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DRACOJIRACHI

Don't ban Inconsistent. Theres only a 1/7 chance for the evasion boost >_> if it's "too hax reliant"you guys wouldv'e banned Shaymin-S + Jirachi LOOOONNGGG AGO.

its the evasion boosts that matter.

if Serene Grace was game-changing we'd have banned stuff like Togekiss and force it to use Hustle

tl;dr: slippery slope

also Skymin fears one move called Ice Shard. if only something good actually got it...!

guanlong · Feb 21st, 2011, 9:43:07 AM

Actually, I've played against quite some Inconsistent abusers on the PO tier, and it seems that Inconsistent has been rather...underwhelming. I failed to account for Draco Meteors, Water Spouts, Earthquakes and Psycho Breaks coming off of 150++ base stats. Also, I find it extremely hilarious that Inconsistent most often trolls the user by getting cruddy boosts.

The players on PO are also incredibly stupid (those who abuse Inconsistent) and often tend to spam Protect in an attempt to boost up while my Pokemon just hammers away.

j99ubers · Feb 21st, 2011, 9:50:40 AM

Inconsistent definitely isnt underwhelming, but more to do with the fact you've been playing on the PO tier. The players there aren't great and don't often abuse Inconsistent properly, and even then I've faced some of them and still managed to lose no matter how much of an advantage I've gained before I face the Inconsistent user. Its incredibly unbalancing and really should be banned. Though it never will on PO due to the fact that they aren't willing to ban evasion there.

Focus · Feb 21st, 2011, 11:15:53 AM

On the PO ladder, Inconsistent users are usually beaten with Toxic Spikes. If that isn't possible, my Whimsicott has a good ol' time screwing things up. If THAT somehow doesn't work, I send in something with Thunder in the rain (or even Aura Sphere if my opponent's SpD isn't too high) and spam attacks. That's just me, though. My point is that there are numerous ways to deal with Inconsistent that reduce Octillery or Bibarel down to size, and I feel that they are beatable 90% of the time even with the correct boosts, and take down no more than one or two team members.

I just do not want people to rush to judgment when assuming that Inconsistent necessarily introduces an unsurmountable amount of luck to the metagame. I do not have much experience playing against Inconsistent in Smogon, so I don't see what the big deal is with it. It is a fringe strategy that should be prepared for like everything else.

j99ubers · Feb 21st, 2011, 12:47:02 PM

So what about sun teams, they don't want to run Thunder and alot of them don't run Aura Sphere (like mine) and any good Inconsistent user will run a grounded Poison to both absorb Toxic Spikes and then to set their own. Add into this the fact that Smeargle gets Baton Pass, he can swap out to something that is immune to either Aura Sphere or Thunder, and if he passes a sub then they will be unaffected by Toxic Spikes. There's a reason that almost everyone wants this banned, it makes the game as unbalanced as stuff like Minimise Blissey, or Minimise Baton Pass Drifblim.

Focus · Feb 21st, 2011, 2:22:55 PM

For the record, I do not play Dream World Ubers very frequently, so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt for that tier. All I'm saying is that in my experience, it is very possible to build decent teams that can effectively deal with any particular threat, and Inconsistent is no exception.

However, just because I personally don't mind playing against Inconsistent doesn't mean that I don't support a vote taking place to determine whether or not it is detrimental to the metagame or takes away a lot of the fun of playing Ubers overall or whatever. That needs to eventually happen to set the record straight on whether it should be treated as just another thing to prepare for or an unhealthy attribute of the Ubers tier that needs to be done away with for the sake of the metagame.

locoghoul · Feb 24th, 2011, 2:35:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat calze6

I believe one of the reasons of banning something from a tier is "overcentralising the metagame". I believe that inconsistent does exactly that.

you are kidding me right? Kyogre's usage has never gone below 40% and you say this isn't "overcentralising"... Have a haze user? Just like you have a spinner if you have Ho-oh/play stall? Cmon just because it's gay doesn't mean "i don't want to play against noobs who can beat my team"

TM13IceBeam · Feb 24th, 2011, 3:18:09 AM

The users of Haze don't have a comfortable niche in ubers to play with...

calze6 · Feb 24th, 2011, 3:50:16 AM

Kyogre can be played around with one or two pokes. Inconsistent requires ridiculously obscure things in order to counter it. Plus, it has a 1 in 7 chance of sweeping a team at any stage of game.

Farewell · Feb 24th, 2011, 4:48:36 AM

Scarf Ditto works pretty well to counter, as does Trace Porygon2 with Miracle of Evolution.

Ironically Heart Swap Manaphy can steal from them as well.

TM13IceBeam · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:30:50 AM

Scarf Ditto wasn't out yet in WiFi, but IIRC Inconsistent Octillery was. Trace P2 needs to come in ASAP or it loses out on the boosting war.

Moo · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:40:18 AM

Trace, Unaware, Ditto, Psych Up, Snatch (?)
^^Just some thoughts on beating Inconsisntent.

jonathanrp · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:40:20 AM

It was a pain in the ass having to use up a slot in my team in standard to deal with inconsistent. Doing it in a fast-paced metagame where a single mistake can mean losing the entire battle, like ubers? No thank you.
I say to just have a blanket ban on the ability, and prevent it from being used in any tier, like OHKO moves and Evasion moves.
An example is:
I started an ubers tourney on the PO server yesterday. The semi-finals, someone was beating his opponent. The opponent sends in an inconsistent Pokemon and sweeps.

Having an ability like that is hardly "creating a desirable metagame".
so yeah, there's my two cents

Moo · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:43:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jonathanrp

It was a pain in the ass having to use up a slot in my team in standard to deal with inconsistent. Doing it in a fast-paced metagame where a single mistake can mean losing the entire battle, like ubers? No thank you.

That is true but if something truly is broken and overcentralizing, then you do need to run something to stop it from sweeping you. At least until it (hopefully) gets banned.

j99ubers · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:44:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat hhjj

Scarf Ditto works pretty well to counter, as does Trace Porygon2 with Miracle of Evolution.

Ironically Heart Swap Manaphy can steal from them as well.

Scarf Ditto is a terrible counter, for one every inconsistent abuser runs substitute which stops ditto in its tracks, and being locked into one attack doesnt really help it abuse inconsistent. Porygon2 wont work either unless you're running it with sub and protect which makes it largely useless outside of trying to counter inconsistent. Heart Swap might work but its not a move that Manaphy wants to use alot of the time.

jonathanrp · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:47:53 AM

I was thinking, red card ditto would be a decent idea.
As soon as the inconsistent user attacks, he gets forced out.
I mean, it's not 100% reliable, but it can help

TM13IceBeam · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:49:54 AM

By that logic, anything with Red Card works, not just Ditto.

jonathanrp · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:56:16 AM

but ditto copies the boosts, that's the main thing

TM13IceBeam · Feb 24th, 2011, 9:59:06 AM

Ditto doesn't transform if Inconsistent d00d is behind sub, which happens 99% of the time unless you somehow manage to smash the sub then immediately switch to ditto, but then Inconsistent user subs on the switch and spams protect/sub. Ditto also only has 5 PP, so prediction can be used to work around the problem.

jonathanrp · Feb 24th, 2011, 10:01:04 AM

Quote:

Substitute does not block Attract, Destiny Bond, Disable, Encore, Foresight, Guard Swap, Haze, Heart Swap, Imprison, Miracle Eye, Odor Sleuth, Perish Song, Power Swap, Psych Up, Roar, Role Play, Skill Swap, Spite, Taunt, Torment, Transform, or Whirlwind.

j99ubers · Feb 24th, 2011, 10:02:13 AM

I can guarantee you that sub does block it, both transform the move and dittos ability.

TM13IceBeam · Feb 24th, 2011, 10:02:50 AM

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Eccentric

Specifically it states that Eccentric does not transform if foe is behind Sub.

Lrn2Research.

Jan 28th, 2011, 2:44:02 PM	#51
Farewell Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 770 Exit the place you no longer need, abandon the place you no longer want. Reject invitation to return	Well. 7x14 = 98% because 7x10 = 70, + 7x4= 28, therefore 70 + 28 = 98 __________________ Farewell!

Jan 28th, 2011, 7:35:36 PM	#52
calze6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 548	Actually, no. Otherwise, you are saying after 8 goes, you will always get a speed boost which isn't true. Another problem is that an evasion boost also greatly gives the likelihood of sweeping as well. __________________ Computer back up! The end of gyara... Trickroom: yeah Gyarados isn't that great in Ubers. Try Jellicent maybe, since it worked out great for me. Gyarados kinda lacks recovery and bad stats which is horrible.

Feb 21st, 2011, 5:10:52 AM	#53
ShinySuicune Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 192	Don't ban Inconsistent. Theres only a 1/7 chance for the evasion boost >_> if it's "too hax reliant"you guys wouldv'e banned Shaymin-S + Jirachi LOOOONNGGG AGO. __________________ SoulSilver fc :keeps changing.... BW: 0303-9120-2654 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85300

Feb 21st, 2011, 11:15:53 AM	#57
Focus Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 559 THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,.	On the PO ladder, Inconsistent users are usually beaten with Toxic Spikes. If that isn't possible, my Whimsicott has a good ol' time screwing things up. If THAT somehow doesn't work, I send in something with Thunder in the rain (or even Aura Sphere if my opponent's SpD isn't too high) and spam attacks. That's just me, though. My point is that there are numerous ways to deal with Inconsistent that reduce Octillery or Bibarel down to size, and I feel that they are beatable 90% of the time even with the correct boosts, and take down no more than one or two team members. I just do not want people to rush to judgment when assuming that Inconsistent necessarily introduces an unsurmountable amount of luck to the metagame. I do not have much experience playing against Inconsistent in Smogon, so I don't see what the big deal is with it. It is a fringe strategy that should be prepared for like everything else. __________________ [FONT=Arial]Insects are divided up into 3 different parts. The HEAD, the THORAX, and the ABDOMEN. The THORAX is the head of the insect. And that's what THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,. is all about. Getting you a HEAD of the rest. [/FONT] Last edited by Focus; Feb 21st, 2011 at 2:18:41 PM.

Feb 21st, 2011, 2:22:55 PM	#59
Focus Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 559 THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,.	For the record, I do not play Dream World Ubers very frequently, so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt for that tier. All I'm saying is that in my experience, it is very possible to build decent teams that can effectively deal with any particular threat, and Inconsistent is no exception. However, just because I personally don't mind playing against Inconsistent doesn't mean that I don't support a vote taking place to determine whether or not it is detrimental to the metagame or takes away a lot of the fun of playing Ubers overall or whatever. That needs to eventually happen to set the record straight on whether it should be treated as just another thing to prepare for or an unhealthy attribute of the Ubers tier that needs to be done away with for the sake of the metagame. __________________ [FONT=Arial]Insects are divided up into 3 different parts. The HEAD, the THORAX, and the ABDOMEN. The THORAX is the head of the insect. And that's what THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,. is all about. Getting you a HEAD of the rest. [/FONT] Last edited by Focus; Feb 21st, 2011 at 2:32:31 PM. Reason: stupid touch screen

Feb 21st, 2011, 9:43:07 AM	#55
guanlong Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 189 singapore	Actually, I've played against quite some Inconsistent abusers on the PO tier, and it seems that Inconsistent has been rather...underwhelming. I failed to account for Draco Meteors, Water Spouts, Earthquakes and Psycho Breaks coming off of 150++ base stats. Also, I find it extremely hilarious that Inconsistent most often trolls the user by getting cruddy boosts. The players on PO are also incredibly stupid (those who abuse Inconsistent) and often tend to spam Protect in an attempt to boost up while my Pokemon just hammers away.

Feb 21st, 2011, 9:50:40 AM	#56
j99ubers Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 242	Inconsistent definitely isnt underwhelming, but more to do with the fact you've been playing on the PO tier. The players there aren't great and don't often abuse Inconsistent properly, and even then I've faced some of them and still managed to lose no matter how much of an advantage I've gained before I face the Inconsistent user. Its incredibly unbalancing and really should be banned. Though it never will on PO due to the fact that they aren't willing to ban evasion there.

Feb 21st, 2011, 12:47:02 PM	#58
j99ubers Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 242	So what about sun teams, they don't want to run Thunder and alot of them don't run Aura Sphere (like mine) and any good Inconsistent user will run a grounded Poison to both absorb Toxic Spikes and then to set their own. Add into this the fact that Smeargle gets Baton Pass, he can swap out to something that is immune to either Aura Sphere or Thunder, and if he passes a sub then they will be unaffected by Toxic Spikes. There's a reason that almost everyone wants this banned, it makes the game as unbalanced as stuff like Minimise Blissey, or Minimise Baton Pass Drifblim.

Feb 24th, 2011, 3:18:09 AM	#61
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	The users of Haze don't have a comfortable niche in ubers to play with... __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Feb 24th, 2011, 3:50:16 AM	#62
calze6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 548	Kyogre can be played around with one or two pokes. Inconsistent requires ridiculously obscure things in order to counter it. Plus, it has a 1 in 7 chance of sweeping a team at any stage of game. __________________ Computer back up! The end of gyara... Trickroom: yeah Gyarados isn't that great in Ubers. Try Jellicent maybe, since it worked out great for me. Gyarados kinda lacks recovery and bad stats which is horrible.

Feb 24th, 2011, 4:48:36 AM	#63
Farewell Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 770 Exit the place you no longer need, abandon the place you no longer want. Reject invitation to return	Scarf Ditto works pretty well to counter, as does Trace Porygon2 with Miracle of Evolution. Ironically Heart Swap Manaphy can steal from them as well. __________________ Farewell!

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:30:50 AM	#64
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Scarf Ditto wasn't out yet in WiFi, but IIRC Inconsistent Octillery was. Trace P2 needs to come in ASAP or it loses out on the boosting war. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:40:18 AM	#65
Moo Professor Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,447	Trace, Unaware, Ditto, Psych Up, Snatch (?) ^^Just some thoughts on beating Inconsisntent. __________________ GP / UU QC, VM for check VM for a UU rate

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:40:20 AM	#66
jonathanrp I saw the report with her testimony, but who knew that under that helmet... it was the wicked witch of the witness stand!? Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 644 By my hand, I will reveal the precious gem of truth!	It was a pain in the ass having to use up a slot in my team in standard to deal with inconsistent. Doing it in a fast-paced metagame where a single mistake can mean losing the entire battle, like ubers? No thank you. I say to just have a blanket ban on the ability, and prevent it from being used in any tier, like OHKO moves and Evasion moves. An example is: I started an ubers tourney on the PO server yesterday. The semi-finals, someone was beating his opponent. The opponent sends in an inconsistent Pokemon and sweeps. Having an ability like that is hardly "creating a desirable metagame". so yeah, there's my two cents __________________ [/URL]

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:47:53 AM	#69
jonathanrp I saw the report with her testimony, but who knew that under that helmet... it was the wicked witch of the witness stand!? Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 644 By my hand, I will reveal the precious gem of truth!	I was thinking, red card ditto would be a decent idea. As soon as the inconsistent user attacks, he gets forced out. I mean, it's not 100% reliable, but it can help __________________ [/URL]

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:49:54 AM	#70
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	By that logic, anything with Red Card works, not just Ditto. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:56:16 AM	#71
jonathanrp I saw the report with her testimony, but who knew that under that helmet... it was the wicked witch of the witness stand!? Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 644 By my hand, I will reveal the precious gem of truth!	but ditto copies the boosts, that's the main thing __________________ [/URL]

Feb 24th, 2011, 9:59:06 AM	#72
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Ditto doesn't transform if Inconsistent d00d is behind sub, which happens 99% of the time unless you somehow manage to smash the sub then immediately switch to ditto, but then Inconsistent user subs on the switch and spams protect/sub. Ditto also only has 5 PP, so prediction can be used to work around the problem. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Feb 24th, 2011, 10:02:13 AM	#74
j99ubers Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 242	I can guarantee you that sub does block it, both transform the move and dittos ability.

Feb 24th, 2011, 10:02:50 AM	#75
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Eccentric Specifically it states that Eccentric does not transform if foe is behind Sub. Lrn2Research. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me