Moody (Ubers Edition) - Page 9

c l e a r · May 25th, 2011, 10:50:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Paradoxus

can you baton pass the boosts?

Yes, sir, and if you BP to someone with White Herb... Guess what.

anubite · May 26th, 2011, 3:36:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat calze6

Which just proves of the obscurity required to check inconsistent.

lol so by this logic SR and spikes and toxic spikes should be bannable because you need to pack an obscure, rare move like rapid spin (seriously there are only like 6 worthwhile spinners in the whole game :/ and SR alone makes half of the FE pokemon in the game unusable in OU/Ubers)

I wouldn't mind a moody clause, but it's ridiculously easy to counter, there are so many ways to counter it:

Clear Smog
Haze
Whirlwind
Roar
Unaware
Psych Up
Heart Swap
Power / Guard Swap
Skill Swap
Roleplay
Dragon Tail
Circle Throw

Not hard to plan a team that has one of these moves on someone bulky. Seriously. And they're good even if your enemy lacks a moody pokemon.

Nubagator · May 26th, 2011, 4:16:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat anubite

lol so by this logic SR and spikes and toxic spikes should be bannable because you need to pack an obscure, rare move like rapid spin (seriously there are only like 6 worthwhile spinners in the whole game :/ and SR alone makes half of the FE pokemon in the game unusable in OU/Ubers)

I wouldn't mind a moody clause, but it's ridiculously easy to counter, there are so many ways to counter it:

Clear Smog
Haze
Whirlwind
Roar
Unaware
Psych Up
Heart Swap
Power / Guard Swap
Skill Swap
Roleplay
Dragon Tail
Circle Throw

Not hard to plan a team that has one of these moves on someone bulky. Seriously. And they're good even if your enemy lacks a moody pokemon.

Really...have you ever played moody teams? You realize all of the moves you stated have accuracy, and can miss once evasion is boosted. This coupled with the fact that many of the moves stated have no effect on subs/don't phaze through it.

ZetoTarken · May 26th, 2011, 4:20:36 PM

Also if you DO use the ones that actually 'work' against Moody you're going to be 6-5 against ANY non-moody team.

anubite · May 26th, 2011, 4:25:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nubagator

Really...have you ever played moody teams? You realize all of the moves you stated have accuracy, and can miss once evasion is boosted. This coupled with the fact that many of the moves stated have no effect on subs/don't phaze through it.

If I see

Smeargle
Octillery
Gallie
Bidoof

In ubers, it means one thing and one thing only: they have moody. If they don't, who cares?

Thus, when you see someone with Moody your response should be:

Switch to bulky user of WW/Roar.

Okay, got that? Now, the chance of your opponent getting evasion boost is 1/7. If you don't already have someone out with WW/roar, your opponent has a 15% chance of getting an evasion boost on turn one, then another 15% chance on turn 2. Odds are, unless your opponent gets 2 consecutive evasion boosts (2.04% chance), roar/ww is fairly likely to hit.

Now, it can all go wrong, but you're playing pokemon. You do realize that a lot of matches go to hell all just from a few lucky crits or something right? So accept those moody losses like any other.

And I'm pretty sure Psych Up goes through a sub though I don't have the means to check at the moment. Haze doesn't I don't think, but it's easy to pack dragon tail on some bulky dragon type in ubers. Real easy. So do it.

Quote:

Also if you DO use the ones that actually 'work' against Moody you're going to be 6-5 against ANY non-moody team.

??? You think I liked using Donphan in UU GenIV? Packing someone with something like roar does not make you 6-5 - don't even joke. Especially not in ubers.

Moody is the same as SR as far as I'm concerned. You can deal with it.

I'm not against a clause for it, since it is a bit too random and some people may hate playing against it. Amd it does piss me off when protect works three times in a row. But to outright ban it like it's that powerful? No thanks.

Also, maybe I wasn't reading the logs right, but yesterday, I switched into my Role Playing Latias against a Smeargle who protected that turn. Guess what happened? lol Role Play still copied his move through protect (though I can't remember if it was after he tried protecting a second time or not) and I proceeded to sweep his team with it, ofc it's not always going to turn out that way, but there are some creative strategies yet to be discovered, is my point (and Role Play is never useless - there are so many awesome things you can roleplay in ubers besides moody)

Focus · May 26th, 2011, 4:35:53 PM

While we're at it, there are also Perish Song and Ghost-Curse!

Some of those things listed work temporarily, but a big problem is that Moody Pokemon can attack you/status you while you use one of those moves. To take on a Moody Pokemon properly, you need a way to consistently damage it. For instance, it helps a ton to have Toxic Spikes on the field. When you Whirlwind/Roar (hoping it connects, assuming you are not taunted) and inflict Poison, its days are numbered. That being said, there are many things that can go wrong, such as there being a spinner/t-spikes absorber. Thunder in the rain and Aura Sphere are good for breaking your opponent's subs, but they can still ruin your day if they have a sub up and are faster. If your opponent knows what they are doing, Moody users (if not Moody itself) can still be your worst nightmare even if you prepare for them. This is especially true now that Moody Smeargle is a reality.

c l e a r · May 26th, 2011, 5:13:16 PM

Toxic Spikes does help a lot actually, more than all those other shit that was suggested by the man who does not know anything. However, a carefully planned substitute can ruin your plans. Smeargle, imo, changes the playing field completely.

Smeargle just needs some Speed passed onto it, a Shell Smash from something like Gorebyss is excellent if you can get a sub to pass over to Smeragle. It has decent enough defenses, and can Swift Swim. Now that the torch has been passed to Smeargle, he can then proceed to Spore, and set up a sub from there, and get to work on the Quiver Dances. At the worst case scenerio, he has +4 boosts when he jumps out, and +4 more to that if he gets a Quiver Dance in, making Stored Power a real doozy to anyone that does not resist it. If a T-tar comes in afterwards, BP all those wonderful boosts to someone else capable of dealing multiple threats, hmmm...!

Alternatively, T-Wave Support can be used in order to slow them down. Groudon is excellent candidate as a Supporter, for it can make Sun, the least popular choice for weather so there is no worry for SSwim that can outrun you, but more importantly, getting rid of the cursed sand that will threaten Smeargle's longevity and his role in the field.

Did we implement Sleep Clause into our uber ladder, since if we don't, you can see how stupid it is with a Smeargle like that.

Mr.lol · May 27th, 2011, 9:39:36 PM

Sleep clause is implemented in ubers... In my experience in ubers taunt mewtwo destroyed moody and caused lots of switches with them although I do admit the 3/7 (theopponent always gets 3 chances to boost evasion before being taunted if switching in taunter...)chance that evasion will increase during the turn can be annoying... Trick room could let a moody user with a speed boost without a sub and no evasion boost be forced to switch or die (if the protect is predicted)... I haven't tried to but is it possible to set up on a setting up moody user (octillery and glaile) and stall their attacks out of pp (most calm mind users have pressure bulkup dialga for bidoof/ bibareal). If luck is factored a person can try to reflect spore via magic coat but if something with aurasphere is out on smeargle on the turn it's out it's pretty much screwed either way...

Focus · Jun 3rd, 2011, 3:52:41 AM

Sooo....Moody Smeargle:

@Leftovers
24 HP / 232 Def / 252 Spe
Timid

-Substitute
-Shell Smash
-Baton Pass
-Taunt / Spore

Smeargle is awesome with paralysis support. If Smeargle gets a sub up, it can just go to town. Shell Smash is reliable and lets Smeargle pass away boosts that are actually good. Speaking of which, Dialga, Giratina-O and Ho-Oh are fantastic receivers of Baton Pass due to their Toxic Spikes immunities and notable offensive presence. Give Dialga or Ho-Oh a White Herb for even more fun!

alphatron · Jun 3rd, 2011, 6:54:44 PM

^Shouldn't that Smeargle also be carrying stored power?

Mr.lol · Jun 3rd, 2011, 10:15:56 PM

Could ingrain be used over shell smash? Being able to start a longer cycle of moody raises seems better in my opinion then +2 in all offensive stats.

cco · Jun 5th, 2011, 12:28:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mr.lol

Could ingrain be used over shell smash? Being able to start a longer cycle of moody raises seems better in my opinion then +2 in all offensive stats.

I've seen Ingrain on Smeargle, it certainly helps but ultimately to me it's just leftovers recovery (I don't rely on Roar/WW to beat Moody, I use Thunder in the Rain from Gira-O) But yeah Ingrain is viable, personally I still like Shell Smash as it gives that vital guarantee that Smeargle will get his speed up, letting him sub up more and more, I'd probably slash it where spore is (para support is the better way to support Smeargle, the more hax, the merrier!)

On the subject of counters, Focus and I had a discussion on Sub+CM Gira-O either Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere or Thunder/other hit most passers and their recipients hard I feel like Aura-Sphere/Thunder is the ultimate Moody counter, but usually you'll want D-pulse for other dragons.....

mamoswineFTW · Jun 6th, 2011, 7:02:08 AM

Guys, there is a simple method that can stop any Moody, or even set up sweeper. Red card @ Sturdy. I use it all the time, and it works a treat.

Send in Forry whilst they're Protecting/Subbing. Lay down some entry hazards, TOXIC SPIKES ESPECIALLY, and then just use Rapid Spin until they eventually decide to attack. No matter how powerful they are, whatever move they use will get you down to Sturdy, and then Red Card will activate, sending the next one out. Any time a new one comes out, they'll get Toxic poisoned by the TS, so that means they are going to have to attack. pack a spin-blocker just in case, bob's your uncle.

I literally laugh when I see a Moody team.

Electro Gypsy · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:50:10 AM

Doesnt stop poison arceus from absorbing tspikes, sorry. And before you go 'lol poison arceus' please keep in mind your moody check is a Red Card forry.

TM13IceBeam · Jun 6th, 2011, 11:08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat mamoswineFTW

Guys, there is a simple method that can stop any Moody, or even set up sweeper. Red card @ Sturdy. I use it all the time, and it works a treat.

Send in Forry whilst they're Protecting/Subbing. Lay down some entry hazards, TOXIC SPIKES ESPECIALLY, and then just use Rapid Spin until they eventually decide to attack. No matter how powerful they are, whatever move they use will get you down to Sturdy, and then Red Card will activate, sending the next one out. Any time a new one comes out, they'll get Toxic poisoned by the TS, so that means they are going to have to attack. pack a spin-blocker just in case, bob's your uncle.

I literally laugh when I see a Moody team.

It's a one-trick pony.

And Poison Arceus is actually decent in Ubers. Despite the weird STAB it does wall Fighting-types well, so eh.

Parasol_Kirby · Jun 6th, 2011, 11:36:27 AM

I am really sad that the only "discussion" going on in the Ubers section of Dragonspiral Tower is about how we should ban something from Ubers...

DetroitLolcat · Jun 6th, 2011, 2:20:45 PM

^ truth.

Look, Moody has counters. Taunt Mewtwo, most mons @ Focus Sash, Dragon Tail Giratina. It's something to prepare for. Remember, Moody takes dozens of turns to work. Yeah, Moody Smeargle sucks, so use Roar. Whirlwind. Hell, use a Wide Lens if you need to hit. Use Hone Claws on Rayquaza instead of Dragon Dance or Swords Dance. Just because you have to edit ONE of your Pokemon to counter it doesn't mean it needs a ban. It just makes the Ubers Threat List a little bigger.

Skramory lols at Moody because of Sturdy, Giratina's pretty bulky and gets Dragon Tail and Roar. So is Lugia. If your team is Moody weak then patch up your team to counter it. None of the Moody users are bulky and only Octillery has passable attacking stats. Taunt completely neutralizes Moody.

In OU, if your team is Scizor weak, you add in a Magnezone. In Ubers, if your team is Moody weak, you ban it? I see a little discrepancy here. P.S. Moody has like 3% usage...

ZetoTarken · Jun 6th, 2011, 4:01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DetroitLolcat

^ truth.

Look, Moody has counters. Taunt Mewtwo, most mons @ Focus Sash, Dragon Tail Giratina. It's something to prepare for. Remember, Moody takes dozens of turns to work. Yeah, Moody Smeargle sucks, so use Roar. Whirlwind. Hell, use a Wide Lens if you need to hit. Use Hone Claws on Rayquaza instead of Dragon Dance or Swords Dance. Just because you have to edit ONE of your Pokemon to counter it doesn't mean it needs a ban. It just makes the Ubers Threat List a little bigger.

Skramory lols at Moody because of Sturdy, Giratina's pretty bulky and gets Dragon Tail and Roar. So is Lugia. If your team is Moody weak then patch up your team to counter it. None of the Moody users are bulky and only Octillery has passable attacking stats. Taunt completely neutralizes Moody.

In OU, if your team is Scizor weak, you add in a Magnezone. In Ubers, if your team is Moody weak, you ban it? I see a little discrepancy here. P.S. Moody has like 3% usage...

I COULD rehash the SAME stuff that's been said multiple times in the thread but that gets boring so...
EVERYTHING you mentioned that is actually reliable(note nothing you said is actually reliable) is available in OU RIGHT NOW. You have 100% accurate Thunders thanks to DrizzleToad and you have Skarmory. You still have Most Mons@Focus Sash and speedy Taunt users. So since you have no problem with it in ubers perhaps you'd have no problem with it in OU again? After all you have the same tools available. I thought not. The only difference between what OU has available and what Ubers has available is that Ubers has a stigma of don't ban anything despite the fact that WE ALREADY DO.

Additionally, just because something is uncommon or even extremely rare doesn't mean it isn't equally broken.

calze6 · Jun 7th, 2011, 2:02:14 AM

WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Policy review is finally doing something about this.

danmo96 · Jun 7th, 2011, 8:28:22 PM

... i dunno why, but i suddenly have an urge to find someone willing to do this with me: two teams of all-out Moody users, and see who wins, JUST for the hell of it.... however, i agree: this ability is EXTREMELY broken....

firecape · Jun 7th, 2011, 11:26:06 PM

Party is over folks. We have been given the green light from Reachzero to ban Moody. As soon as Rising_Dusk feels like programming it Moody will be gone from ubers! (please don't pester him he's very busy and I've already told him about it)

edit: its done.

May 26th, 2011, 4:20:36 PM	#204
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	Also if you DO use the ones that actually 'work' against Moody you're going to be 6-5 against ANY non-moody team. __________________ <Witty comment here>

May 26th, 2011, 4:35:53 PM	#206
Focus Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 549 THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,.	While we're at it, there are also Perish Song and Ghost-Curse! Some of those things listed work temporarily, but a big problem is that Moody Pokemon can attack you/status you while you use one of those moves. To take on a Moody Pokemon properly, you need a way to consistently damage it. For instance, it helps a ton to have Toxic Spikes on the field. When you Whirlwind/Roar (hoping it connects, assuming you are not taunted) and inflict Poison, its days are numbered. That being said, there are many things that can go wrong, such as there being a spinner/t-spikes absorber. Thunder in the rain and Aura Sphere are good for breaking your opponent's subs, but they can still ruin your day if they have a sub up and are faster. If your opponent knows what they are doing, Moody users (if not Moody itself) can still be your worst nightmare even if you prepare for them. This is especially true now that Moody Smeargle is a reality. __________________ [FONT=Arial]Insects are divided up into 3 different parts. The HEAD, the THORAX, and the ABDOMEN. The THORAX is the head of the insect. And that's what THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,. is all about. Getting you a HEAD of the rest. [/FONT]

May 26th, 2011, 5:13:16 PM	#207
c l e a r Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,280 Carousel of Agony	Toxic Spikes does help a lot actually, more than all those other shit that was suggested by the man who does not know anything. However, a carefully planned substitute can ruin your plans. Smeargle, imo, changes the playing field completely. Smeargle just needs some Speed passed onto it, a Shell Smash from something like Gorebyss is excellent if you can get a sub to pass over to Smeragle. It has decent enough defenses, and can Swift Swim. Now that the torch has been passed to Smeargle, he can then proceed to Spore, and set up a sub from there, and get to work on the Quiver Dances. At the worst case scenerio, he has +4 boosts when he jumps out, and +4 more to that if he gets a Quiver Dance in, making Stored Power a real doozy to anyone that does not resist it. If a T-tar comes in afterwards, BP all those wonderful boosts to someone else capable of dealing multiple threats, hmmm...! Alternatively, T-Wave Support can be used in order to slow them down. Groudon is excellent candidate as a Supporter, for it can make Sun, the least popular choice for weather so there is no worry for SSwim that can outrun you, but more importantly, getting rid of the cursed sand that will threaten Smeargle's longevity and his role in the field. Did we implement Sleep Clause into our uber ladder, since if we don't, you can see how stupid it is with a Smeargle like that. __________________ いつからだろう君のことを追いかける There is no chance, no destiny, no fate, that can circumvent or hinder or control the firm resolve of a determined soul. - Ella Wheeler Wilcox Soul Silver FC: 5070 6986 0930 \| Black FC: 0218 1017 4907 I use legal hacks sometimes, events have been legit checked if I use them.

Jun 3rd, 2011, 3:52:41 AM	#209
Focus Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 549 THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,.	Sooo....Moody Smeargle: @Leftovers 24 HP / 232 Def / 252 Spe Timid -Substitute -Shell Smash -Baton Pass -Taunt / Spore Smeargle is awesome with paralysis support. If Smeargle gets a sub up, it can just go to town. Shell Smash is reliable and lets Smeargle pass away boosts that are actually good. Speaking of which, Dialga, Giratina-O and Ho-Oh are fantastic receivers of Baton Pass due to their Toxic Spikes immunities and notable offensive presence. Give Dialga or Ho-Oh a White Herb for even more fun! __________________ [FONT=Arial]Insects are divided up into 3 different parts. The HEAD, the THORAX, and the ABDOMEN. The THORAX is the head of the insect. And that's what THORAX CORPORATION LLC,,. is all about. Getting you a HEAD of the rest. [/FONT]

Jun 3rd, 2011, 6:54:44 PM	#210
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	^Shouldn't that Smeargle also be carrying stored power? __________________ Fifth Gen OU RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...67#post3383567

May 27th, 2011, 9:39:36 PM	#208
Mr.lol Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 652 Where i is real	Sleep clause is implemented in ubers... In my experience in ubers taunt mewtwo destroyed moody and caused lots of switches with them although I do admit the 3/7 (theopponent always gets 3 chances to boost evasion before being taunted if switching in taunter...)chance that evasion will increase during the turn can be annoying... Trick room could let a moody user with a speed boost without a sub and no evasion boost be forced to switch or die (if the protect is predicted)... I haven't tried to but is it possible to set up on a setting up moody user (octillery and glaile) and stall their attacks out of pp (most calm mind users have pressure bulkup dialga for bidoof/ bibareal). If luck is factored a person can try to reflect spore via magic coat but if something with aurasphere is out on smeargle on the turn it's out it's pretty much screwed either way...

Jun 3rd, 2011, 10:15:56 PM	#211
Mr.lol Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 652 Where i is real	Could ingrain be used over shell smash? Being able to start a longer cycle of moody raises seems better in my opinion then +2 in all offensive stats.

Jun 6th, 2011, 7:02:08 AM	#213
mamoswineFTW Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 70	Guys, there is a simple method that can stop any Moody, or even set up sweeper. Red card @ Sturdy. I use it all the time, and it works a treat. Send in Forry whilst they're Protecting/Subbing. Lay down some entry hazards, TOXIC SPIKES ESPECIALLY, and then just use Rapid Spin until they eventually decide to attack. No matter how powerful they are, whatever move they use will get you down to Sturdy, and then Red Card will activate, sending the next one out. Any time a new one comes out, they'll get Toxic poisoned by the TS, so that means they are going to have to attack. pack a spin-blocker just in case, bob's your uncle. I literally laugh when I see a Moody team. __________________ Soul Silver Pokedex: 493 seen, 493 caught Battle Factory record: 33 wins, 29 trades. Battle Tower record: 42 consecutive wins with 12 attacking team of: Infernape, Latios and Metagross. If only I could get at least 7 more...

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:50:10 AM	#214
Electro Gypsy Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 46	Doesnt stop poison arceus from absorbing tspikes, sorry. And before you go 'lol poison arceus' please keep in mind your moody check is a Red Card forry.

Jun 6th, 2011, 11:36:27 AM	#216
Parasol_Kirby Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 100 BARN ALL	I am really sad that the only "discussion" going on in the Ubers section of Dragonspiral Tower is about how we should ban something from Ubers...

Jun 6th, 2011, 2:20:45 PM	#217
DetroitLolcat It's Great! To Be! A Michigan Wolverine! Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,795	^ truth. Look, Moody has counters. Taunt Mewtwo, most mons @ Focus Sash, Dragon Tail Giratina. It's something to prepare for. Remember, Moody takes dozens of turns to work. Yeah, Moody Smeargle sucks, so use Roar. Whirlwind. Hell, use a Wide Lens if you need to hit. Use Hone Claws on Rayquaza instead of Dragon Dance or Swords Dance. Just because you have to edit ONE of your Pokemon to counter it doesn't mean it needs a ban. It just makes the Ubers Threat List a little bigger. Skramory lols at Moody because of Sturdy, Giratina's pretty bulky and gets Dragon Tail and Roar. So is Lugia. If your team is Moody weak then patch up your team to counter it. None of the Moody users are bulky and only Octillery has passable attacking stats. Taunt completely neutralizes Moody. In OU, if your team is Scizor weak, you add in a Magnezone. In Ubers, if your team is Moody weak, you ban it? I see a little discrepancy here. P.S. Moody has like 3% usage... __________________ Favorite Pokemon-Swampert- formerly OU and staying that way. Cats are awesome, the best kind of cat is the Detroit Lion! http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou11556879

Jun 7th, 2011, 2:02:14 AM	#219
calze6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 546	WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Policy review is finally doing something about this. __________________ Computer back up! The end of gyara... Trickroom: yeah Gyarados isn't that great in Ubers. Try Jellicent maybe, since it worked out great for me. Gyarados kinda lacks recovery and bad stats which is horrible.

Jun 7th, 2011, 8:28:22 PM	#220
danmo96 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 43	... i dunno why, but i suddenly have an urge to find someone willing to do this with me: two teams of all-out Moody users, and see who wins, JUST for the hell of it.... however, i agree: this ability is EXTREMELY broken.... __________________ If I were half as good at competitive battling as i was at Tetris, i'd be unstoppable.

Jun 7th, 2011, 11:26:06 PM	#221
firecape This is the end... Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,048 This storys old, but it goes on and on until we disappear	Party is over folks. We have been given the green light from Reachzero to ban Moody. As soon as Rising_Dusk feels like programming it Moody will be gone from ubers! (please don't pester him he's very busy and I've already told him about it) edit: its done. __________________ I DONT DESERVE YOU Last edited by firecape; Jun 7th, 2011 at 11:51:04 PM.