(Gen 2) GSC Differences Collection for Simulator Implementation (help needed)

eric the espeon · Jan 28th, 2011, 7:54:22 PM

Just like the previous project for ADV which ended up helping PO implement the third generation, we will be collecting up as many differences between GSC and the third generation as possible to make it easier to implement on simulators.

Data changes:

Remove of all Pokemon, Moves, and Items not obtainable in the first two generations and evolutionary links with them.
Remove Unown ! and ?
Remove Abilities and Natures entirely.
Add all Items removed from later games (list needed, I'll probably get this).
Modify learnsets (including NYPC moves, I'll go through my sources again and get a list... but they were really badly documented so it'll be hard to be 100% accurate.).

Global mechanic changes:

Modify EV system (bulbapedia page).
Modify Hidden Power formula to this.
Hail weather condition does not exist.
Double battles do not exist.
Modify IV system (bulbapedia page):
IVs range from 0 to 15.
"Special" IV modifies both SpD and SpA stats.
HP IV determined by the other four. Take the last binary digit of Attack, Defense, Speed, and Special in order to generate the 4 digit binary number for the HP IV.
Gender determined by Attack IV. If the Attack IV is below a certain number specific to the species it is female, otherwise male.

IV for setting the various genders and their ratios
87.5% male gender ratio
Attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male

75% female ratio
Attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female

75% Male ratio
Attack IV must be below 4 to be female

50-50 ratio
Attack IV must be below 8 to be female

Gender ratios
Male - female

87.5 - 12.5
Bulbasaur
Ivysaur
Venusaur
Charmander
Charmeleon
Charizard
Squirtle
Wartortle
Blastoise
Totodile
Croconaw
Feraligatr
Chikorita
Bayleef
Meganium
Cyndaquil
Quilava
Typhlosion
Eevee
Vaporeon
Jolteon
Flareon
Fossils
Snorlax
Togepi
Togetic

25 - 75
Cleffa
Clefairy
Clefable
Vulpix
Ninetales
Igglybuff
Jigglypuff
Wigglytuff
Snubbull
Granbull
Corsola

50 - 50
all others

75 - 25
Growlithe
Arcanine
Abra
Kadabra
Alakazam
Machop
Machoke
Machamp
Elekid
Magby
Electabuzz
Magmar

100 - 0
Hitmontop
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Tyrogue
Tauros
Nidoran-M
Nidorino
Nidoking

0 - 100
Miltank
Smoochum
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Chansey
Blissey

Genderless
Magnemite
Magneton
Staryu
Starmie
Voltorb
Electrode
Ditto
Porygon
Porygon2
Unown
Articuno
Moltres
Zapdos
Mewtwo
Mew
Raikou
Suicune
Entei
Celebi
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Shinyness based on IVs (if Speed, Defense, and Special IVs are 10, and the Attack IV is 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14 or 15 the Pokemon will be Shiny).
Stats are capped at 999 with the exception below.
If Marowak's has Thick Club and it's Attack is boosted and the stat is boosted to over 1023 (e.g. like 255-256), it's Attack will roll back over to zero. Light Ball Pikachu with boosted SpA needs testing to see if if has the same behavior. Thief after rollover needs testing.
Bad poison changes (to normal poison) when a Pokemon is not active.

Specific changes (e.g. specific items functioning differently):

Spikes can only stack to one layer, doing 12.5% to non-flying types.
Sleep Talk will not fail if it selects Rest, and will cause the Pokemon to use Rest (though Rest will fail as usual if the Pokemon is at full HP).
Counter, Mirror Coat, Roar, Vital Throw, and Whirlwind have -1 Priority.
Roar and Whirlwind will fail unless they move last.
Leech Seed doesn't drain HP the turn it's used.
For Ghost Curse: "defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn."
Outrage type moves do not display a message indicating that the user has become confused when they end.
In Gold/Silver Belly Drum causes the user to faint if it is at 50% or less. In Crystal and Stadium 2, it will display a failure message but still raise the Pokemon's attack by two stages.
In Gold/Silver when using Present the Level, Attack, and Defense variables in the damage formula are replaced by the index number of the defending Pokémon's type, 10, and the index number of the attacking Pokémon's type (secondary type is used for dual type Pokemon). Present will also only inflict a quarter of the normal damage against Rock-type and Steel-type Pokémon. In Crystal and Stadium 2 the normal mechanics are used. Details.

Simple move changes (e.g. base power, accuracy):

Encore lasts 2-5 turns in GSC not the 4-8 in RSE.
Spite reduces the foe's PP by 1-5 rather than 2-5.
Powder Snow has a 9.8% chance of freezing the target rather than 10%.

If you want to support the adoption of older generations by active simulators, this is the best way you can help out! Post any differences you can think of here, and please link to sources wherever possible.

**Tobes** · Jan 28th, 2011, 8:05:01 PM

Spikes can only be laid once iirc, with the usual 12.5% damage on switches.

Celebi cannot be obtained without a Gameshark, even with the Teru-sama glitch, but this is only relevant if tiers are being relooked at.

khz · Jan 28th, 2011, 8:13:43 PM

The physical/special split isn't implemented and the "type" of move is dependent on their elemental type. IIRC fire, water, electric, ice, grass, dark, psychic and dragon are special and the rest are physical.

EDIT: @TobesMcGobes: That is false, I got a legit Celebi at a Nintendo event.

eric the espeon · Jan 28th, 2011, 8:32:45 PM

I have clarified that we are looking for differences between GSC and the third gen not GSC and later gens, since RSE is the closest gen mechanically and will be what GSC code is based upon.

Quote:

Spikes can only be laid once iirc, with the usual 12.5% damage on switches.

Please link to sources. Smogon agrees with this, but Bulba does not.

Quote:

Celebi cannot be obtained without a Gameshark, even with the Teru-sama glitch, but this is only relevant if tiers are being relooked at.

This is relevant, but there was an event for Celebi at least in japan.

Borat · Jan 28th, 2011, 8:39:31 PM

Quote:

Please link to sources. Smogon agrees with this, but Bulba does not.

First hand... source. Played before RSE even existed. 1 layer.

eric the espeon · Jan 28th, 2011, 8:49:18 PM

Ok, added. Linking to sources helps confirm things more quickly, but with Smogon's page plus you two it's enough to add.

Alan · Jan 28th, 2011, 8:51:51 PM

list of nypc event moves and pokemon

its not listed but rest can be selected by sleep talk and will heal you upon being selected (assuming not at 100% hp)

Borat · Jan 29th, 2011, 2:05:04 AM

I'm not 100% positive it's different on RSE, but phazing logic is the opposite. The slower pokemon gets the p-haze. This applies to other moves that are "forced" to go second, and only work when they go second (Vital Throw).

AJC · Jan 29th, 2011, 3:20:32 AM

In pure Gold/Silver the move Present has a glitch that in a quick nutshell somehow uses the types of pokemon in it's attacking calc the result of this glitch can cause something like blissey to do stuff like 2-shot pokemon of the likes of umbreon.

Fixed in stadium 2 and Crystal where it works like all future gens.

IV for setting the various genders and their ratios are as follows

87.5% male gender ratio

attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male

75% female ratio

attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female

75% Male ratio

Attack IV must be below 4 to be female

50-50 ratio

Attack IV must be below 8 to be female

the remaining gender ratios are self explanatory.

Rag · Jan 29th, 2011, 4:19:28 AM

Counter/Mirror Coat and Whirlwind/Roar have a -1 priority (which is the lowest priority bracket) rather than -4 and -5 respectively.

Basically, due to there being only one negative priority bracket, every move intended to move last have a priority of -1.

http://www.smogon.com/gs/articles/move_priority

Crystal_ · Jan 29th, 2011, 7:02:16 AM

-> -50% Belly Drum glitch.

-> In GSC Leech Seed doesn't affect the opponent the same turn it's used.

-> Encore turns are 2-5 in GSC and 4-8 in RSE

-> Marowak's 1024 attack glitch

-> In GSC bad poison dissapears (to normal poison) when you switch out.

-> A sleep talked Roar/WW fails when the user is faster (a consequence of what Borat said)

-> Curse "in Generation II, defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn." from Bulbapedia

-> Outrage: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...age_%28move%29 , so that you don't know if you are confused / Outrage has finished after the second turn.

-> Spite: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spite_%28move%29. 1-5 pp in GSC; 2-5 in RSE

-> Powder Snow has 9'8% chances of freezing in GSC and 10% in RSE... lol http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...now_%28move%29

-> I'm not sure about that, but I think that the chances of being defrosted are 10% in GSC and 20% in RSE

-> I don't know if this only happens on NB but CHs doesn't only ignore attacker's drops and defender's drops because, for example, a +6 Snorlax doesn't KO another +6 Snorlax (both from Curse) with Double-Edge (it does around 60%, the damage doubled).

eric the espeon · Jan 29th, 2011, 10:01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Alan

list of nypc event moves and pokemon

I am aware of the UPC list (I used it when finding NYPC moves to add to the Smogon Dex), but it specifically claims to be incomplete. And contains a significant number of spelling errors. There are several other sources which I will be using, though I'm sure the people of this forum may be able to track down some additional ones.

Quote:

its not listed but rest can be selected by sleep talk and will heal you upon being selected (assuming not at 100% hp)

Ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Borat

I'm not 100% positive it's different on RSE, but phazing logic is the opposite. The slower pokemon gets the p-haze. This applies to other moves that are "forced" to go second, and only work when they go second (Vital Throw).

Alright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AJC

In pure Gold/Silver the move Present has a glitch that in a quick nutshell somehow uses the types of pokemon in it's attacking calc the result of this glitch can cause something like blissey to do stuff like 2-shot pokemon of the likes of umbreon.

Fixed in stadium 2 and Crystal where it works like all future gens.

I'll need some more information on how this works exactly before adding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AJC

IV for setting the various genders and their ratios are as follows

87.5% male gender ratio

attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male

75% female ratio

attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female

75% Male ratio

Attack IV must be below 4 to be female

50-50 ratio

Attack IV must be below 8 to be female

the remaining gender ratios are self explanatory.

Alright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rag

Counter/Mirror Coat and Whirlwind/Roar have a -1 priority (which is the lowest priority bracket) rather than -4 and -5 respectively.

Basically, due to there being only one negative priority bracket, every move intended to move last have a priority of -1.

http://www.smogon.com/gs/articles/move_priority

Ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Crystal_

-> -50% Belly Drum glitch.

Details?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Crystal_

-> In GSC Leech Seed doesn't affect the opponent the same turn it's used.

-> Encore turns are 2-5 in GSC and 4-8 in RSE

-> Marowak's 1024 attack glitch

-> In GSC bad poison dissapears (to normal poison) when you switch out

-> A sleep talked Roar/WW fails when the user is faster (a consequence of what Borat said)

-> Curse "in Generation II, defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn." from Bulbapedia

-> Outrage: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...age_%28move%29 , so that you don't know if you are confused / Outrage has finished after the second turn.

-> Spite: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spite_%28move%29. 1-5 pp in GSC; 2-5 in RSE

-> Powder Snow has 9'8% chances of freezing in GSC and 10% in RSE... lol http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...now_%28move%29

Ok to all those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Crystal_

-> I'm not sure about that, but I think that the chances of being defrosted are 10% in GSC and 20% in RSE

-> I don't know if this only happens on NB but CHs doesn't only ignore attacker's drops and defender's drops because, for example, a +6 Snorlax doesn't KO another +6 Snorlax (both from Curse) with Double-Edge (it does around 60%, the damage doubled).

If someone could find a source for these it would help.

Great find so far everyone, I'll update the OP after food.

Destiny Warrior · Jan 29th, 2011, 10:41:18 AM

This is more of a pedantic error, but Special Attack and Special Defense always have same IVs in GSC.

Crystal_ · Jan 29th, 2011, 11:54:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Crystal_

-> -50% Belly Drum glitch.
Details?

When a Pokemon that is below 50% used BD, it's attack stat will raise 2 stages, instead of doing nothing as in later gens. I believe that this only happens on Crystal, as I think that if that happens in gold/silver the user faints. Anyway, competitive GSC has always been played with the +2 Atk glitch.

eric the espeon · Jan 29th, 2011, 1:25:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Destiny Warrior

This is more of a pedantic error, but Special Attack and Special Defense always have same IVs in GSC.

Already in the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Crystal_

When a Pokemon that is below 50% used BD, it's attack stat will raise 2 stages, instead of doing nothing as in later gens. I believe that this only happens on Crystal, as I think that if that happens in gold/silver the user faints. Anyway, competitive GSC has always been played with the +2 Atk glitch.

hm, interesting. Smogon's page agrees with the GS effect, but suggests that the move fails if at less than half HP as in later gens. Need confirmation (a few others agreeing, and ideally a source to a site with good mechanics) before I add the Crystal/Stadium 2 mechanics. If Smogon's page is wrong I can fix that too.

**gene** · Jan 29th, 2011, 1:38:30 PM

if you drum below half hp it says "but it failed!"

you still get the +2 attack though

Crystal_ · Jan 29th, 2011, 3:24:47 PM

Genders: *Including previous evolutions

Male - female

87'5 - 12'5
Bulbasaur
Ivysaur
Venusaur
Charmander
Charmeleon
Charizard
Squirtle
Wartortle
Blastoise
Totodile
Croconaw
Feraligatr
Chikorita
Baileef
Meganium
Cyndaquil
Quilava
Typlosion
Eevee
Vaporeon
Jolteon
Flareon
Fossils
Snorlax
Togepi
Togetic

25 - 75
Cleffa
Clefairy
Clefable
Vulpix
Ninetales
Igglybuff
Jigglypuff
Wigglytuff
Snubull
Granbull
Corsola

75 - 25
Growlithe
Arcanine
Abra
Kadabra
Alakazam
Machop
Machoke
Machamp
Elekid
Magby
Electabuzz
Magmar

100 - 0
Hitmontop
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Tyrogue
Tauros
Nidoran (M)
Nidorino
Nidoking

0 - 100
Miltank
Smoochum
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Chasney
Blissey

Genderless
Magnemite Magneton
Staryu
Starmie
Voltorb
Electrode
Ditto
Porygon
Porygon2
Unown
Articuno
Moltres
Zapdos
Mewtwo
Mew
Raikou
Suicune
Entei
Celebi
Lugia
Ho-oh

eric the espeon · Jan 29th, 2011, 4:22:06 PM

Updated all but Crystal's latest post and the ones I still have questions about (Present glitch). Crystal, could you edit the list to include all Pokemon other than the 50:50 group (add each of the starters/legends and all that), this will probably make it easier to add to the code. Good stuff so far everyone.

Crystal_ · Jan 29th, 2011, 5:16:53 PM

Edited gender list

Quote:

Modify learnsets (including NYPC moves, I'll go through my sources again and get a list... but they were really badly documented so it'll be hard to be 100% accurate.).

You can use the NB Pokédex for that.

eric the espeon · Jan 29th, 2011, 6:47:40 PM

I'm unsure of NB's sources, but it would certainly help to have a full list of NYPC moves included in NB. If someone knows of such a list or is willing to make one by looking through the teambuilder it would be very helpful.

Edit: Fixed a few spellings and added gender ratio list to the OP.

Mr.E · Jan 29th, 2011, 6:50:12 PM

Confirming Present glitch, although I don't recall the specifics. I remember that maximum damage is obtained when the attacker is of a physical type and the defender is of a special type. Hopefully there's a source out there to explain the full mechanics, I think the one I always used before was Meowth386's site and almost every trace of him has long since disappeared from the Internet.

EDIT: But of course, the Bulbapedia's page for Present has it. And yeah, you can see that an Attacker of a physical type against a Defender of a special type leads to maximal damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

[*]If a stat goes above 1024 it will roll over (specifics needed).

Stats are normally capped at 999 (both RBY and GSC) to avoid this problem, so this only applies to one circumstance: Thick Club Marowak. The Thick Club boost ignores this restriction for whatever reason. The item boost is probably applied after the stat check is done or something but why it happens isn't really important... Therefore, a Marowak with 1 SD boost can go to 500+ Attack, which is then doubled over 1000 with Thick Club. If it rolls over 1023 (e.g. like 255-256 :P), the Attack will roll back over to zero. This is why SD Marowak users are urged to use maximum Attack DV of 13, as 254*4 = 1016. (256*4 = 1024 and 258*4 = 1032, rolling over for Attack DVs 14 and 15.)

Quote:

[*]Sleep Talk will not fail if it selects Rest, and will cause the Pokemon to use Rest.

It still fails in case the Sleep Talker is at 100% health, in case that wasn't apparent.

eric the espeon · Jan 29th, 2011, 7:05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mr.E

Confirming Present glitch, although I don't recall the specifics. I remember that maximum damage is obtained when the attacker is of a physical type and the defender is of a special type. Hopefully there's a source out there to explain the full mechanics, I think the one I always used before was Meowth386's site and almost every trace of him has long since disappeared from the Internet.

His site is on the web archive, perhaps you know where it is and could be able to track it down there? I had a look, but no luck.

Quote:

Stats are normally capped at 999 (both RBY and GSC) to avoid this problem, so this only applies to one circumstance: Thick Club Marowak. The Thick Club boost ignores this restriction for whatever reason. The item boost is probably applied after the stat check is done or something but why it happens isn't really important... Therefore, a Marowak with 1 SD boost can go to 500+ Attack, which is then doubled over 1000 with Thick Club. If it rolls over 1023 (e.g. like 255-256 :P), the Attack will roll back over to zero. This is why SD Marowak users are urged to use maximum Attack DV of 13, as 254*4 = 1016. (256*4 = 1024 and 258*4 = 1032, rolling over for Attack DVs 14 and 15.)

Ah, I see, thank you. I'll add that (and to gen 1). Do you know if this is the same for Stadium 2/Crystal?

Quote:

It still fails in case the Sleep Talker is at 100% health, in case that wasn't apparent.

Will clarify wording. And, I would expect Sleep Talk to work, then rest to fail, though I could be wrong.

Mr.E · Jan 29th, 2011, 7:47:03 PM

I edited my above post after dinner, looks like Bulba has info so "yeah."

I'm pretty sure stats are still capped in Stadium/Crystal, I sure don't remember any sort of controversy surrounding mechanics changes in that area anyway. (And there is no way to break the cap in RBY, so no issue with the rollover glitch there.) Yes, Rest is what fails, as it does when you use it normally at 100% health.

Borat · Jan 30th, 2011, 12:51:15 AM

Does LB Pikachu with Growth passes also stat-roll?

AJC · Jan 30th, 2011, 2:00:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Borat

Does LB Pikachu with Growth passes also stat-roll?

no it doesn't apparently from what i've heard LB doesn't have the same glitch thick club causes mostly because pikachu's special attack is 30 points lower so it doesn't reach the amount needed to hit the rollover.

at least i never heard of a rollover glitch with pikachu

also burn poison (both normal and toxic version) and ghost curse deal their damage after one inflicted with them moves instead of at the end of turn.

Jan 28th, 2011, 7:54:22 PM	#1
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	GSC Differences Collection for Simulator Implementation (help needed) Just like the previous project for ADV which ended up helping PO implement the third generation, we will be collecting up as many differences between GSC and the third generation as possible to make it easier to implement on simulators. Data changes: Remove of all Pokemon, Moves, and Items not obtainable in the first two generations and evolutionary links with them. Remove Unown ! and ? Remove Abilities and Natures entirely. Add all Items removed from later games (list needed, I'll probably get this). Modify learnsets (including NYPC moves, I'll go through my sources again and get a list... but they were really badly documented so it'll be hard to be 100% accurate.). Global mechanic changes: Modify EV system (bulbapedia page). Modify Hidden Power formula to this. Hail weather condition does not exist. Double battles do not exist. Modify IV system (bulbapedia page): IVs range from 0 to 15. "Special" IV modifies both SpD and SpA stats. HP IV determined by the other four. Take the last binary digit of Attack, Defense, Speed, and Special in order to generate the 4 digit binary number for the HP IV. Gender determined by Attack IV. If the Attack IV is below a certain number specific to the species it is female, otherwise male. IV for setting the various genders and their ratios 87.5% male gender ratio Attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male 75% female ratio Attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female 75% Male ratio Attack IV must be below 4 to be female 50-50 ratio Attack IV must be below 8 to be female Gender ratios Male - female 87.5 - 12.5 Bulbasaur Ivysaur Venusaur Charmander Charmeleon Charizard Squirtle Wartortle Blastoise Totodile Croconaw Feraligatr Chikorita Bayleef Meganium Cyndaquil Quilava Typhlosion Eevee Vaporeon Jolteon Flareon Fossils Snorlax Togepi Togetic 25 - 75 Cleffa Clefairy Clefable Vulpix Ninetales Igglybuff Jigglypuff Wigglytuff Snubbull Granbull Corsola 50 - 50 all others 75 - 25 Growlithe Arcanine Abra Kadabra Alakazam Machop Machoke Machamp Elekid Magby Electabuzz Magmar 100 - 0 Hitmontop Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Tyrogue Tauros Nidoran-M Nidorino Nidoking 0 - 100 Miltank Smoochum Jynx Kangaskhan Chansey Blissey Genderless Magnemite Magneton Staryu Starmie Voltorb Electrode Ditto Porygon Porygon2 Unown Articuno Moltres Zapdos Mewtwo Mew Raikou Suicune Entei Celebi Lugia Ho-Oh Shinyness based on IVs (if Speed, Defense, and Special IVs are 10, and the Attack IV is 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14 or 15 the Pokemon will be Shiny). Stats are capped at 999 with the exception below. If Marowak's has Thick Club and it's Attack is boosted and the stat is boosted to over 1023 (e.g. like 255-256), it's Attack will roll back over to zero. Light Ball Pikachu with boosted SpA needs testing to see if if has the same behavior. Thief after rollover needs testing. Bad poison changes (to normal poison) when a Pokemon is not active. Specific changes (e.g. specific items functioning differently): Spikes can only stack to one layer, doing 12.5% to non-flying types. Sleep Talk will not fail if it selects Rest, and will cause the Pokemon to use Rest (though Rest will fail as usual if the Pokemon is at full HP). Counter, Mirror Coat, Roar, Vital Throw, and Whirlwind have -1 Priority. Roar and Whirlwind will fail unless they move last. Leech Seed doesn't drain HP the turn it's used. For Ghost Curse: "defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn." Outrage type moves do not display a message indicating that the user has become confused when they end. In Gold/Silver Belly Drum causes the user to faint if it is at 50% or less. In Crystal and Stadium 2, it will display a failure message but still raise the Pokemon's attack by two stages. In Gold/Silver when using Present the Level, Attack, and Defense variables in the damage formula are replaced by the index number of the defending Pokémon's type, 10, and the index number of the attacking Pokémon's type (secondary type is used for dual type Pokemon). Present will also only inflict a quarter of the normal damage against Rock-type and Steel-type Pokémon. In Crystal and Stadium 2 the normal mechanics are used. Details. Simple move changes (e.g. base power, accuracy): Encore lasts 2-5 turns in GSC not the 4-8 in RSE. Spite reduces the foe's PP by 1-5 rather than 2-5. Powder Snow has a 9.8% chance of freezing the target rather than 10%. If you want to support the adoption of older generations by active simulators, this is the best way you can help out! Post any differences you can think of here, and please link to sources wherever possible. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted. Last edited by eric the espeon; Feb 6th, 2011 at 10:43:46 AM.

Jan 28th, 2011, 8:05:01 PM	#2
Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo-woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,274 GONER	Spikes can only be laid once iirc, with the usual 12.5% damage on switches. Celebi cannot be obtained without a Gameshark, even with the Teru-sama glitch, but this is only relevant if tiers are being relooked at. __________________

Jan 28th, 2011, 8:49:18 PM	#6
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	Ok, added. Linking to sources helps confirm things more quickly, but with Smogon's page plus you two it's enough to add. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Jan 28th, 2011, 8:51:51 PM	#7
Alan Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,721 get the reptile to me	list of nypc event moves and pokemon Starters Week Bulbasaur-Ancientpower Charmander-Crunch Squirtle-Zap Cannon Chikorita-Petal Dance Cyndaquil-Double-Edge Totodile-Submission Christmas Week Delibird-Pay Day Celebi Spring Into Spring Psyduck-Petal Dance Chikorita-Petal Dance Pichu-Petal Dance Cleffa-Petal Dance Igglybuff-Petal Dance Smoochum-Petal Dance Babies Week Pichu-Sing Cleffa-Swift Igglybuff-Mimic Smoochum-Metronome Elekid-Pursuit Magby-Faint Attack Valentine's Day NidoranF-Lovely Kiss NidoranF-Sweet Kiss NidoranM-Lovely Kiss NidoranM-Sweet Kiss Bellsprout-Lovely Kiss Bellsprout-Sweet Kiss Summer Festival 1 (Tropical Giveaway) Poliwag-Growth Horsea-Haze Goldeen-Swords Dance Magikarp-Reversal Marill-Dizzy Punch Wooper-Belly Drum Summer Festival 2 (Tropical Giveaway) Psyduck-Tri Attack Tentacool-Confuse Ray Lapras-Bite Chinchou-Light Screen Remoraid-Mist Mantine-Gust Swarm Week Marill-Hydro Pump Yanma-Steel Wing Dunsparce-Horn Drill Snubull-Lovely Kiss Qwilfish-Double-Edge Remoraid-Amnesia Pokémon Mini Week Chikorita-Petal Dance Wooper-Belly Drum Smoochum-Metronome Safari Week NidoranF-Moonlight NidoranM-Morning Sun Chansey-Sweet Scent Kanghaskhan-Faint Attack Tauros-Quick Attack Dratini-Hydro Pump Sky Week Spearow-Sonic Boom Farfetch'd-Fury Cutter Doduo-Low Kick Natu-Safeguard Murkrow-Beat Up Skarmory-Fury Cutter Power Plant Week Magnemite-Agility Voltorb-Agility Pichu-Dizzy Punch Elekid-Dizzy Punch Halloween Pichu-Scary Face Cleffa-Scary Face Igglybuff-Scary Face Marill-Scary Face Wooper-Scary Face Silver Cave Ponyta-Low Kick Doduo-Low Kick Tangela-Synthesis Misdraveus-Hypnosis Larvitar-Rage Union Cave Onix-Sharpen Krabby-Metal Claw Goldeen-Swords Dance Staryu-Twister Lapras-Future Sight Psychic Type Abra-Foresight Drowzee-Amnesia Exeggcute-Sweet Scent Mr.Mime-Mind Reader Lapras-Future Sight Natu-Safeguard Rock Tunnel Zubat-Flail Machop-Thrash Geodude-Rapid Spin Onix-Sharpen Cubone-Fury Attack Kangaskhan-Faint Attack Ice Type Seel-Flail Lapras-Future Sight Swinub-Whirlwind Delibird-Spikes Noctournal Week Staryu-Twister Hoothoot-Night Shade Murkrow-Beat Up Misdreavus-Hypnosis Sneasel-Moonlight Grass Type Oddish-Leech Seed Paras-Synthesis Tangela-Synthesis Hoppip-Agility Sunkern-Splash Normal Type Lickitung-Double Slap Snorlax-Splash Sentret-Dizzy Punch Aipom-Mimic Stantler-Safeguard Miltank-Mega Kick Mt. Mortar Machop-False Swipe Goldeen-Swords Dance Magikarp-Bubble Marill-Dizzy Punch Tyrogue-Rage Dark Cave Geodude-Rapid Spin Wobbuffet-Mimic Dunsparce-Fury Attack Teddiursa-Sweet Scent Phanpy-Absorb Valentine's Day Poliwag-Lovely Kiss Poliwag-Sweet Kiss Bellsprout-Lovely Kiss Bellsprout-Sweet Kiss Snorlax-Lovely Kiss Snorlax-Sweek Kiss Rare Pokémon Eevee-Growth Porygon-Barrier Omanyte-Rock Throw Kabuto-Rock Throw Aerodactyl-Rock Throw Snorlax-Sweet Kiss Sudowoodo-Substitute Bug Type Scyther-Sonic Boom Pinsir-Rock Throw Ledyba-Barrier Spinarak-Growth Yanma-Sweet Kiss Pineco-Substitute Heracross-Seismic Toss its not listed but rest can be selected by sleep talk and will heal you upon being selected (assuming not at 100% hp) __________________ music youtube Lorem ipsum id est oculis

Jan 29th, 2011, 3:20:32 AM	#9
AJC Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,189	In pure Gold/Silver the move Present has a glitch that in a quick nutshell somehow uses the types of pokemon in it's attacking calc the result of this glitch can cause something like blissey to do stuff like 2-shot pokemon of the likes of umbreon. Fixed in stadium 2 and Crystal where it works like all future gens. IV for setting the various genders and their ratios are as follows 87.5% male gender ratio attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male 75% female ratio attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female 75% Male ratio Attack IV must be below 4 to be female 50-50 ratio Attack IV must be below 8 to be female the remaining gender ratios are self explanatory. __________________ <Misty> NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH CHOICE BAND JIRACHI INQUISITION. <Surgo> when a man whips out a pink DS and pokemon, you know he's not afraid of anything. <capefeather> explosion got ruined by the bad economy

Jan 28th, 2011, 8:13:43 PM	#3
khz Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	The physical/special split isn't implemented and the "type" of move is dependent on their elemental type. IIRC fire, water, electric, ice, grass, dark, psychic and dragon are special and the rest are physical. EDIT: @TobesMcGobes: That is false, I got a legit Celebi at a Nintendo event.

Jan 29th, 2011, 2:05:04 AM	#8
Borat Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 725	I'm not 100% positive it's different on RSE, but phazing logic is the opposite. The slower pokemon gets the p-haze. This applies to other moves that are "forced" to go second, and only work when they go second (Vital Throw).

Jan 29th, 2011, 4:19:28 AM	#10
Rag Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 459	Counter/Mirror Coat and Whirlwind/Roar have a -1 priority (which is the lowest priority bracket) rather than -4 and -5 respectively. Basically, due to there being only one negative priority bracket, every move intended to move last have a priority of -1. http://www.smogon.com/gs/articles/move_priority __________________ Last edited by Rag; Jan 29th, 2011 at 4:49:13 AM. Reason: source

Jan 29th, 2011, 7:02:16 AM	#11
Crystal_ Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 833 Spain	-> -50% Belly Drum glitch. -> In GSC Leech Seed doesn't affect the opponent the same turn it's used. -> Encore turns are 2-5 in GSC and 4-8 in RSE -> Marowak's 1024 attack glitch -> In GSC bad poison dissapears (to normal poison) when you switch out. -> A sleep talked Roar/WW fails when the user is faster (a consequence of what Borat said) -> Curse "in Generation II, defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn." from Bulbapedia -> Outrage: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...age_%28move%29 , so that you don't know if you are confused / Outrage has finished after the second turn. -> Spite: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spite_%28move%29. 1-5 pp in GSC; 2-5 in RSE -> Powder Snow has 9'8% chances of freezing in GSC and 10% in RSE... lol http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...now_%28move%29 -> I'm not sure about that, but I think that the chances of being defrosted are 10% in GSC and 20% in RSE -> I don't know if this only happens on NB but CHs doesn't only ignore attacker's drops and defender's drops because, for example, a +6 Snorlax doesn't KO another +6 Snorlax (both from Curse) with Double-Edge (it does around 60%, the damage doubled). __________________ Updated RBY analyses: ~~ Alakazam / Chansey / Dragonite / Exeggutor / Slowbro / Snorlax / Starmie / Tauros ~~ Articles: ~~ The RBY UU Metagame // Sleep and Leads in RBY ~~ Warstory: ~~ RBY Little Cup ~~ ****** RBY 251 ** The RBY Metagame with all GSC Pokemon allowed! Last edited by Crystal_; Jan 29th, 2011 at 8:02:48 AM.

Jan 29th, 2011, 10:41:18 AM	#13
Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,044 Location: Andromeda Galaxy	This is more of a pedantic error, but Special Attack and Special Defense always have same IVs in GSC. __________________ 17:47 Zarator cc for cap shit? 17:47 Zarator why? 17:48 Destiny_Warrior he contributed to the CAP community with his posts duh 17:48 Zarator oh wait 17:48 Objection maybe CAP's becoming more influential on smogon? 17:48 Zarator you don't mean currency counters right? CAP ASB and Battle Arcade

Jan 29th, 2011, 1:38:30 PM	#16
gene GENE Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,716 Buffalo, NY	if you drum below half hp it says "but it failed!" you still get the +2 attack though __________________ death to evan

Jan 29th, 2011, 3:24:47 PM	#17
Crystal_ Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 833 Spain	*Genders: Including previous evolutions Male - female 87'5 - 12'5 Bulbasaur Ivysaur Venusaur Charmander Charmeleon Charizard Squirtle Wartortle Blastoise Totodile Croconaw Feraligatr Chikorita Baileef Meganium Cyndaquil Quilava Typlosion Eevee Vaporeon Jolteon Flareon Fossils Snorlax Togepi Togetic 25 - 75 Cleffa Clefairy Clefable Vulpix Ninetales Igglybuff Jigglypuff Wigglytuff Snubull Granbull Corsola 75 - 25 Growlithe Arcanine Abra Kadabra Alakazam Machop Machoke Machamp Elekid Magby Electabuzz Magmar 100 - 0 Hitmontop Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Tyrogue Tauros Nidoran (M) Nidorino Nidoking 0 - 100 Miltank Smoochum Jynx Kangaskhan Chasney Blissey Genderless Magnemite Magneton Staryu Starmie Voltorb Electrode Ditto Porygon Porygon2 Unown Articuno Moltres Zapdos Mewtwo Mew Raikou Suicune Entei Celebi Lugia Ho-oh __________________ Updated RBY analyses: ~~ Alakazam / Chansey / Dragonite / Exeggutor / Slowbro / Snorlax / Starmie / Tauros ~~ Articles: ~~ The RBY UU Metagame // Sleep and Leads in RBY ~~ Warstory: ~~ RBY Little Cup ~~ **** RBY 251 ** The RBY Metagame with all GSC Pokemon allowed! Last edited by Crystal_; Jan 29th, 2011 at 5:07:02 PM.

Jan 29th, 2011, 4:22:06 PM	#18
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	Updated all but Crystal's latest post and the ones I still have questions about (Present glitch). Crystal, could you edit the list to include all Pokemon other than the 50:50 group (add each of the starters/legends and all that), this will probably make it easier to add to the code. Good stuff so far everyone. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Jan 29th, 2011, 6:47:40 PM	#20
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	I'm unsure of NB's sources, but it would certainly help to have a full list of NYPC moves included in NB. If someone knows of such a list or is willing to make one by looking through the teambuilder it would be very helpful. Edit: Fixed a few spellings and added gender ratio list to the OP. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Jan 29th, 2011, 7:47:03 PM	#23
Mr.E im the best Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,768	I edited my above post after dinner, looks like Bulba has info so "yeah." I'm pretty sure stats are still capped in Stadium/Crystal, I sure don't remember any sort of controversy surrounding mechanics changes in that area anyway. (And there is no way to break the cap in RBY, so no issue with the rollover glitch there.) Yes, Rest is what fails, as it does when you use it normally at 100% health.

Jan 30th, 2011, 12:51:15 AM	#24
Borat Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 725	Does LB Pikachu with Growth passes also stat-roll?