Uber Walls Discussion thread, Lugia and Chansey owned the poll.

[TM13IceBeam]

Blue Fire has a chance to burn, no? That means that Reshi also has a 30% chance of turning Chansey into a fried egg of 2HKO. Garchomp is quite rare in ubers now(although the huge amount of troll players on WiFi Ubers may be a factor), and well, people usually run ScarfKia instead of SpecsKia IIRC. >_>

Also yes
finally someone who agrees with me
that Chansey is a noob.

[guanlong]

Ho-Oh was also an important threat I must have forgotten about; I suppose it's due to Ho-Oh's main usage as a monstrously potent physical sweeper under the sun. Ho-Oh walls Palkia under the sun (lol Stone Edge?), Dialga and Reshiram. It's a great special sponge and it is a fine example of a versatile Pokemon: it can stall like a boss or sweep.

One of the most potent sets has to be Subroost. It's so unkillable behind a Sub, and it KOs many of the Special attackers in Ubers with its powerful Brave Bird!

[trickroom]

Reshiram has 20% of defeating Chansey. If it is Blissey, Reshiram has 85% chance to 2HKO Blissey and that's NOT even counting the burn rate.

I won't say Chansey is a noob when she can wall support Groudon even when using a Calm Nature.

Chansey can wall Mixed attackers much better than Blissey can. It's not like Blissey's Special Attack is going to hurt anyone outside of quadruple weaknesses. For example, Chansey can wall Mixed Palkia while Blissey fails usually. Chansey can even avoid a 2HKO from Scarf Lightning Strike if she uses a Bold Nature which is still acceptable in Ubers. Scarf Kyogre Water Spout or Specs Surf still fails to 2HKO no Special Defense Chansey.

Garchomp isn't that rare in Ubers. It checks all the new dragons and outspeeds them. Even Zekrom is OHKOed by Scarf Outrage.

Ho-Oh will be even more beasty when Regenerator is released.

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

Also yes
finally someone who agrees with me
that Chansey is a noob.

Chansey is never a noob lol. In fact it makes people think you are inexperienced in Ubers. Blissey has her own advantages but the better defenses usually outweigh the ability to use Special Attacks and Leftovers in Ubers.

Blissey is rarely seen using Special Attacks in Ubers because her most common move is Seismic Toss which does consistent 100 damage. Since Chansey is also using Seismic Toss as her attacking move, Blissey's extra Special Attack is useless in this case.

[JSND]

Ice beam on rayquaza make a big difference man.
Seriously
Chansey is not as insanely omg better like people think in beggining of gen 5.

[trickroom]

Ice Beam helps vs Rayquaza, but if Rayquaza Outrages Blissey outright you lost your Special Wall. Now the whole team is weak to Special attacks. It is usually not worth the risk unless you predict Rayquaza will be setting up or catch it on the switch in.

[JSND]

Well that means you lock yourself in Outrage.
Yeah you know the drill. I can cripple, kill, or set up my poke in his face.
So basicaly Bliss and chan has their distinct advantages

[Farewell]

Blissey is a better Protect + Wish passer due to Leftovers, and higher HP., and since it is using Protect, it is a better Toxic (staller) user than Chansey as well. This means Protect, Wish, Toxic all function better on Blissey than Chansey thanks to Leftovers and higher HP. This means even without SpA in its movesets, Blissey can still function in certain roles better than Chansey. Period.

However, Ice Beam seems useful, especially versus Rayquaza, Garchomp, Salamence, and Shaymin-S switch-ins.

Protect, Wish, Ice Beam, Toxic isn't so bad, and outdoes a Chansey set.

[guanlong]

Isn't Blissey's Ice Beam a lure for Pokemon with higher SpD to just switch in and setup boosts? Ho-Oh comes to mind as a dangerous example; it switches in, subs, boosts or just outright kills you! Seismic Toss is generally the superior option because it's reliable. Also, considering that Lugia's Ice Beam fails to KO before Stealth Rock damage, won't Blissey's pathetic SpA also prevent it from KOing Rayquaza?

[tehy]

Originally Posted by Fat JSND

Well that means you lock yourself in Outrage.
Yeah you know the drill. I can cripple, kill, or set up my poke in his face.
So basicaly Bliss and chan has their distinct advantages

And that can't happen to a chansey?

And since they can still threaten things like t-wave, toxic, and seismic toss, you'd be forced to in any case.

Besides, the point is that, although blissey can attack dragons, chansey can wall them.

[shrang]

Originally Posted by Fat guanlong

Isn't Blissey's Ice Beam a lure for Pokemon with higher SpD to just switch in and setup boosts? Ho-Oh comes to mind as a dangerous example; it switches in, subs, boosts or just outright kills you! Seismic Toss is generally the superior option because it's reliable. Also, considering that Lugia's Ice Beam fails to KO before Stealth Rock damage, won't Blissey's pathetic SpA also prevent it from KOing Rayquaza?

What's stopping Ho-oh doing the same to Chansey? Ho-oh's Subs are over 100 HP, so Seismic Toss aren't breaking them.

[trickroom]

Chansey can survive 2 Brave Birds if Ho-Oh lacks Life Orb. The original argument was about Blissey using Ice Beam. Ice Beam does so little damage to so many Ubers not 4x weak to it that Seismic Toss is usually the superior option.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat trickroom

Chansey can survive 2 Brave Birds if Ho-Oh lacks Life Orb. The original argument was about Blissey using Ice Beam. Ice Beam does so little damage to so many Ubers not 4x weak to it that Seismic Toss is usually the superior option.

Thinking of this, if Ho-oh has LO it just kamikazes on Chansey.

[Vratix]

Originally Posted by Fat guanlong

Lugia is (IMO) the best mixed wall there is, with massive speed and bulk. It can even outstall boosted physical attackers with Reflect+Roost, and can sometimes utilise Calm Mind to boost alongside the many boosting special sweepers in the Ubers tier. The few Pokemon that give the Multi-Scale variant trouble are Darkrai and CB Zekrom (if Lugia is not running any speed and Zekrom is running speed; if not Lugia can just Reflect stall). Toxic hurts Lugia too as it has no Refresh.

This. Too lazy to retype almost exactly the same thing.

I didn't vote for two because (on a more physical side) I don't think that any one pokemon outshines the rest the way Lugia does from a Special/Mix standpoint. I like Groudon but I don't know that it's the "best."

[dragonmaster951753]

My vote goes for chansey, and then Lugia and Groudon.

Chansey can take hits on both sides of the spectrum and can heal back and even toxic stall. Blissey "can" fight back, but since its purpose should be for walling and healing, chansey does it better.

Lugia has been the greatest wall since it game out. Marvel Scales has only made it better. It can stall, fight, phaze, it can do anything any wall can ask for without losing too much of its natural walling power.

Groudon makes for a fantastic physical wall. With its ground typing- it can wall pretty much any phyiscal pokemon since most physical attacks won't be water/grass/ice. Giratina has to worry about CB/CSchomp outraging it to death, or DD rayquaza outrage destroying it, but groudon just takes it and phaze them away or kill them with a small investment to its atk. Also, being able to take down zekrom is a huge deal since EVERY other wall has to worry his generic sets.

[ScizorMeTimbers]

I use a combo of support Groudon, Giratina-O, and Arceus-Steel and they seem to wall everything pretty well, while also having the potential to do some serious damage. I'm fairly new to the Ubers tier so I haven't experimented with many others, but those 3 work very well for my playing style.

[dragonexpert]

I believe Chansey to be the better wall between it and Blissey because of eviolite making it actually be able to survive some physical attacks. Not having to switch and take potential entry hazard damage is welcome.

Lugia is my top choice for the other walls because of its great defenses coupled with recovery. I also like its base 110 Speed. Being able to use Roost to make the opponent waste PP when using Thunder or Ice Beam is great. I've had my Lugia stall out several Pokemon. It has saved me on numerous occasions.

Giratina would have to be next best pick. Blocking Rapid Spin while being able to spread damage by using Dragon Tail / Roar with entry hazards works great for making a scarfed Pokemon get many KOs later.

I think Dialga could be mentioned as a wall due to its base 100 HP coupled with excellent defenses. Resttalk can wall many Pokemon that aren't named Groudon or Garchomp. It also is able to set up its own sweep at the same time with Bulk-Up. Dragon Tail is an option that could be used to force switches.

[ElDynamite]

Chansey vs Blissey- You really can't say either is better because they both have their advantages.

[Mr_br_kill]

Shouldn't ferrathorn be an option? its probbably not the best wall but its better at walling then forrtress.

[shrang]

Originally Posted by Fat trickroom

Chansey can survive 2 Brave Birds if Ho-Oh lacks Life Orb. The original argument was about Blissey using Ice Beam. Ice Beam does so little damage to so many Ubers not 4x weak to it that Seismic Toss is usually the superior option.

Why is Ho-Oh using Brave Bird on Chansey? Why isn't it using sun-boosted Sacred Fire?

[trickroom]

Sometimes the weather might not be Sunny. No Chansey is staying in on Ho-Oh in the sun LOL

Ferrothorn is more of an annoyer than a wall at least for Ubers. I can put it in but I tried to make the poll as small as possible. I didn't put Forretress in the poll either because it clearly isn't one.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Mr_br_kill

Shouldn't ferrathorn be an option? its probbably not the best wall but its better at walling then forrtress.

ofc, nobody uses Forry to wall. It just so happens to be the best mon for hazards while having a typing that makes it workable in both weathers.

[SP458]

I voted Chansey & Giratina.
Thanks to Evoilite, Chansey can wall these random Dark- (except Tyranitar's ones) and Ghost-type attacks, physical and special, while being very sturdy in the special spectrum. Meanwhile, Giratina is physically bulkier than Lugia with its 150/120 defenses and is immune (better than 4x resistant) to Fighting-type attacks; he can even shut down Tyranitar and other physical threats with Will-O-Wisp.

[waterwarrior]

Giratina (stupid me not voting for two pokes, Arceus-G would've been my second vote). Why? Immunity to ExtremeSpeed. While it may not sound like much, its just amazing to say "GTFO" to Arceus, or even some Deoxys-A. Also, Giratina can take a Shadow Claw from a +4 (+6 plus burn) Arceus-Ghost. Such a boss.

[trickroom]

The votes seem to favor Chansey as the preferred Special Wall in Ubers. Lugia is by far the most liked wall but I can't understand why Giratina is so underused when so many people voted for it?

29.60% people voted for Giratina and that's nearly more than the votes for all the Arceus forms combined. Go use more Giratina in Ubers!

[ssbbm]

It's basically because Chansey is the only 100% switch-in to SpecsReshiram while even Blissey is 2HKOed IMO. Also, Chansey's physical bulk is amazing.