Summer Freedom Pre-Evolutions

Nate · May 17th, 2006, 5:26:21 PM

I have had a lot of people ask me about pre-evolved pokemon and I finally realized I simply had not devoted enough thought to the matter. Kadabra and pupitar are scary indeed, and haunter isn't bad.

Quite a few people are telling me that it would be an extremely bad idea to allow them, and I'm not quite sure whether I agree or not.

This is a vote, but not a poll because this is only somewhat a democracy and I want actual logic behind votes.

DragonDance · May 17th, 2006, 5:33:22 PM

I think they should be allowed, but only for SF and the like.

Who cares if they Rape at first. We'll find counters soon. And if not, then we'll ban them.

w00t! first post!

SSBM roy · May 17th, 2006, 5:36:50 PM

They might be too good for an unevolved only metagame, but considering people can use stuff like Scizor and Typhlosion and even Gligar it doesn't make sense to even restrict, let alone ban, PUPITAR.

Tazzler · May 17th, 2006, 5:40:55 PM

I wouldn not like to see them. UU is a place where we can use the pokemon that don't do well in the rgular (OU) metagame, it would be unfair to use mini tyraniatars/alakazams/gengars/etc instead. Not to mention they would be broken. Haunter has three immunites as well as two 4x resists so it makes an easy switch on cbers. It may not to have the movepool of gengar, but it still has many moves such as w-o-w and bolt/drain. It can still hidden power, too. It can take down all physical walls. If you are desperate, it can shadow abll grumpig, hypno, etc or even explode on them. Pupitar? Dragon Dance? STAB EQ and RS? Normal and Flying Resist? No thanks. There are little phazing attempts. Gligar and Solrock don't like its Rock slides and it can hidden power bug if you want it to. Kadabra is too fast and powerful for uu, imo. It outruns every UU (not counting bls) but persian and electrode. It has monster special special attack and trickband can ruin piggy/hypno.

loaf · May 17th, 2006, 5:48:17 PM

-edited due to idiocy-
kadabra for bl
everything else uu

oh, and grovyle (bl pls)

Zero · May 17th, 2006, 5:49:27 PM

PokeRealm allows all pre-evos in UU play, except for Chansey and Wynaut.

While we do have stuff like Ursaring, Steelix and Scizor in our UU metagame, I still don't think they would make much of an impact here. Kadabra is easily handled by Lanturn or Hypno.

Pupitar has so many counters that it's not funny.

Jackal · May 17th, 2006, 6:13:27 PM

why allow them is the better question. I say ban the lot cause I want to see uu pokemon not rip offs of ou.

Aeroblacktyl · May 17th, 2006, 6:32:24 PM

I fail to see how Lanturn can stop a Kadabra. One calm Mind on the switch, and the next Psychic would do roughly 45-55% (judging from the fact that timid pikachu does 40%ish with hpgrass) also depending on EVs. What does Lanturn do while Kadabra psychics? well it can attack, but won't ko. It could twave, but what if kadabra has lum berry? which is sensible since alot of the uu does sometimes try to incorporate plenty of status in it, therefore lanturn is killed next turn and potentially a sweep. hpdark would also cover hypno, seeing as it can't do much either.

Warthog · May 17th, 2006, 6:47:49 PM

Do away with them please, I dont want to see Kadabra when they could be using Mr Mime. I dont want to see Pupitar when they could be using Golem, Aggron or Cradily. I dont want to see Scyther if they could use Hitomonlee or Primeape.

See the picture? Let SF actually give UU some play because after all thats what the tourny is all about right?

**gene** · May 17th, 2006, 7:39:30 PM

I agree with the whole thing Warthog said about this tourney being for UU's... don't let unevolved shit in this.

Nate · May 17th, 2006, 7:41:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Warthog

Do away with them please, I dont want to see Kadabra when they could be using Mr Mime. I dont want to see Pupitar when they could be using Golem, Aggron or Cradily. I dont want to see Scyther if they could use Hitomonlee or Primeape.

See the picture? Let SF actually give UU some play because after all thats what the tourny is all about right?

If Pre-Evos are disallowed, Scyther will still be allowed due to the fact that technically it's a final evolution. Scizor is a kind of add-on evolution. Same goes for onix.

Chimaira · May 17th, 2006, 8:13:07 PM

I don't see the logic of banning them.
Who would use them anyway?
Their stats simply aren't as good as fully evolved UU pokes. And Wynaut is hilariously weak, I tried it and it gets 2hkoed easily by a non-CB kangaskhan. I think most people that think they're overpowering haven't even compared the stats. Pupitar is a joke compared to golem, the only reason you'd possibly use it would be for dragon dance. But it needs like 3 of them to sweep succesfully and in that time Golem could've gotten off 3 EQs off his much higher attack. I won't even start on Kabadra. A magikarps fart would OHKO that thing.

So anyway...it doesn't matter, if so many people say they're unfair, then just ban them. It's not like anyone would use them anyway.

Xiaohaha · May 17th, 2006, 9:12:24 PM

They shouldn't be allowed. They belong in a different metagame.

Warthog · May 17th, 2006, 9:38:57 PM

NNEM, Scyther is a beast. Swords Dance, Silver Wind, Reversal, Substitute. 339 SPD, 319-350 ATT passing most pokemon not named Crobat, Swellow, Buzz, Manetric. It doesnt even need Salac to sweep.. thats how sad it is because most likly it will be running Liechi.

The only UU Counter being Gligar and the BL being Crobat. Pair this with Cloyster and you have an awesome duo, because Cloyster feeds on these two counters.

Just play SSBM Roy and you will see the power of it. Everyone else would say the same, atleast the ppl from PR.

Aeroblacktyl · May 17th, 2006, 10:08:41 PM

Um Kadabra 339 Speed and 339 Special attack anyone?
Shegon 289 Attack, 299 Defense, Rock Head Double-Edge makes up for lack of STAB Sala got not to mention Dragon Dance and no clear cut way to OHKO it without boost since its only 2x Ice'd.
Does anyone really want another Mini Sceptile running around UU? Grovyle has 289 speed 269 special, SubSeeding abilities and what not.
Marstomp is basically one Water Absorb away from being way better than Quagsire since it does have roughly better stats.

Altmer · May 18th, 2006, 3:34:22 AM

ban all except scyther imo, kadabra is really really annoying :/ with that speed and sp. atk, otherwise this is just OU - 1 evo stage

Atlas · May 18th, 2006, 8:55:30 AM

what about lighball pikachu/deepseatooth(scale) clamperl

goofball · May 18th, 2006, 9:03:12 AM

man sorry but I will keep this short...

Pre-evos....GTFO seeing as I made this post at 8 in the morning you can see why

loaf · May 18th, 2006, 9:54:37 AM

i know i've already posted, i'm not trying to double vote.

there is no good reason for banning weaker pokemon than we already have in uu. Top tier uu is far and above whatever most nfes can throw at you, and if people want to get their rocks off by losing with a combusken, i dont see any problem with that. Kadabra (perhaps grovyle, though it has to get up a safe sub, and is still worse than pluff) is the only problem because it's better at what it does than anything else in uu. Pupitar is outclassed by so much, perhaps shelgon would be a worry... but it can't quake like mence, and has no utilizable stab, so all its going to do is get shit on by golem, blastoise, meganium, togepi

Havak · May 18th, 2006, 11:09:07 AM

IMO don't allow: Pupitar and Kadabra. Also, perhaps Vigoroth, Grovoyle, Haunter, Shelgon and Scyther. Definately Pupitar and Kadabra, the latter I'm not too bothered about, but would still like to see banned.

Dan Dan · May 18th, 2006, 11:10:51 AM

Keep UE out of the UU game

Siphai · May 18th, 2006, 11:48:35 AM

Kadabra is my main consern because it outspeeds almost everything in the UU Metagame (Excluding Electrode, Manectric etc.) and has a huge Sp. Atk. If we have this, why would we use other Sp. Atkers?

stonerchris · May 18th, 2006, 12:45:58 PM

no. just don't. its easier not to allow them then have to go through and determine which ones are OK and which are too similar to their fully evolved forms. it'll just cause unneccessary conflict.

Devilkid · May 18th, 2006, 3:40:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jackal

why allow them is the better question. I say ban the lot cause I want to see uu pokemon not rip offs of ou.

Exactly my opinion!!!

***Mekkah***** · May 18th, 2006, 3:55:29 PM

Just don't, it makes it all too wide, and some UE's are really just OU gimmicks you don't want in UU. Agreeing especially on the Kadabra matter.

May 17th, 2006, 5:26:21 PM	#1
Nate Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 853 Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay wasting time	Summer Freedom Pre-Evolutions I have had a lot of people ask me about pre-evolved pokemon and I finally realized I simply had not devoted enough thought to the matter. Kadabra and pupitar are scary indeed, and haunter isn't bad. Quite a few people are telling me that it would be an extremely bad idea to allow them, and I'm not quite sure whether I agree or not. This is a vote, but not a poll because this is only somewhat a democracy and I want actual logic behind votes.

May 17th, 2006, 5:33:22 PM	#2
DragonDance Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 601 canada	I think they should be allowed, but only for SF and the like. Who cares if they Rape at first. We'll find counters soon. And if not, then we'll ban them. w00t! first post! __________________ aaa

May 17th, 2006, 5:36:50 PM	#3
SSBM roy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 418	They might be too good for an unevolved only metagame, but considering people can use stuff like Scizor and Typhlosion and even Gligar it doesn't make sense to even restrict, let alone ban, PUPITAR. __________________ ♔♕♖♗♘♙♚♛♜♝♞♟

May 17th, 2006, 5:40:55 PM	#4
Tazzler Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,347 Maryland	I wouldn not like to see them. UU is a place where we can use the pokemon that don't do well in the rgular (OU) metagame, it would be unfair to use mini tyraniatars/alakazams/gengars/etc instead. Not to mention they would be broken. Haunter has three immunites as well as two 4x resists so it makes an easy switch on cbers. It may not to have the movepool of gengar, but it still has many moves such as w-o-w and bolt/drain. It can still hidden power, too. It can take down all physical walls. If you are desperate, it can shadow abll grumpig, hypno, etc or even explode on them. Pupitar? Dragon Dance? STAB EQ and RS? Normal and Flying Resist? No thanks. There are little phazing attempts. Gligar and Solrock don't like its Rock slides and it can hidden power bug if you want it to. Kadabra is too fast and powerful for uu, imo. It outruns every UU (not counting bls) but persian and electrode. It has monster special special attack and trickband can ruin piggy/hypno. Last edited by Tazzler; May 17th, 2006 at 5:44:48 PM.

May 17th, 2006, 5:48:17 PM	#5
loaf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 104	-edited due to idiocy- kadabra for bl everything else uu oh, and grovyle (bl pls) Last edited by loaf; May 18th, 2006 at 3:35:48 AM.

May 17th, 2006, 5:49:27 PM	#6
Zero Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,437	PokeRealm allows all pre-evos in UU play, except for Chansey and Wynaut. While we do have stuff like Ursaring, Steelix and Scizor in our UU metagame, I still don't think they would make much of an impact here. Kadabra is easily handled by Lanturn or Hypno. Pupitar has so many counters that it's not funny. __________________ Sly Cooper: Imperfectluck is the meanest mod of any server on the internet in the history of chatrooms sly cooper was banned by imperfectluck. for 23 hours, 59 minutes. Pokemon Online Administrator - Feel free to contact me with any issues regarding PO.

May 17th, 2006, 6:13:27 PM	#7
Jackal I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,128 Canada eh	why allow them is the better question. I say ban the lot cause I want to see uu pokemon not rip offs of ou. __________________

May 17th, 2006, 6:32:24 PM	#8
Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,334	I fail to see how Lanturn can stop a Kadabra. One calm Mind on the switch, and the next Psychic would do roughly 45-55% (judging from the fact that timid pikachu does 40%ish with hpgrass) also depending on EVs. What does Lanturn do while Kadabra psychics? well it can attack, but won't ko. It could twave, but what if kadabra has lum berry? which is sensible since alot of the uu does sometimes try to incorporate plenty of status in it, therefore lanturn is killed next turn and potentially a sweep. hpdark would also cover hypno, seeing as it can't do much either. __________________

May 17th, 2006, 7:39:30 PM	#10
gene GENE Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,715 Buffalo, NY	I agree with the whole thing Warthog said about this tourney being for UU's... don't let unevolved shit in this. __________________ death to evan

May 17th, 2006, 8:13:07 PM	#12
Chimaira Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 680	I don't see the logic of banning them. Who would use them anyway? Their stats simply aren't as good as fully evolved UU pokes. And Wynaut is hilariously weak, I tried it and it gets 2hkoed easily by a non-CB kangaskhan. I think most people that think they're overpowering haven't even compared the stats. Pupitar is a joke compared to golem, the only reason you'd possibly use it would be for dragon dance. But it needs like 3 of them to sweep succesfully and in that time Golem could've gotten off 3 EQs off his much higher attack. I won't even start on Kabadra. A magikarps fart would OHKO that thing. So anyway...it doesn't matter, if so many people say they're unfair, then just ban them. It's not like anyone would use them anyway. __________________ "Any unpatriotic anti-american dogs who oppose him shall be crushed under the jack-boots of freedom!" James Love owns.

May 17th, 2006, 9:12:24 PM	#13
Xiaohaha Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 296	They shouldn't be allowed. They belong in a different metagame.

May 17th, 2006, 10:08:41 PM	#15
Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,334	Um Kadabra 339 Speed and 339 Special attack anyone? Shegon 289 Attack, 299 Defense, Rock Head Double-Edge makes up for lack of STAB Sala got not to mention Dragon Dance and no clear cut way to OHKO it without boost since its only 2x Ice'd. Does anyone really want another Mini Sceptile running around UU? Grovyle has 289 speed 269 special, SubSeeding abilities and what not. Marstomp is basically one Water Absorb away from being way better than Quagsire since it does have roughly better stats. __________________

May 18th, 2006, 3:34:22 AM	#16
Altmer rid this world of human waste Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,937 mocking the cross	ban all except scyther imo, kadabra is really really annoying :/ with that speed and sp. atk, otherwise this is just OU - 1 evo stage __________________ I'm somebody now, Harry. Everybody likes me. Soon, millions of people will see me and they'll all like me. I'll tell them about you, and your father, how good he was to us. Remember? It's a reason to get up in the morning. It's a reason to lose weight, to fit in the red dress. It's a reason to smile. It makes tomorrow all right. What have I got Harry, hm? Why should I even make the bed, or wash the dishes? I do them, but why should I? I'm alone. Your father's gone, you're gone. I got no one to care for. What have I got, Harry? I'm lonely. I'm old. You got friends, Ma. Ah, it's not the same. They don't need me. I like the way I feel. I like thinking about the red dress and the television and you and your father. Now when I get the sun, I smile.

May 18th, 2006, 8:55:30 AM	#17
Atlas I'm the Mary! Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,487 Alliston, Ontario	what about lighball pikachu/deepseatooth(scale) clamperl __________________

May 18th, 2006, 9:03:12 AM	#18
goofball Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,694 Dallas, TX	man sorry but I will keep this short... Pre-evos....GTFO seeing as I made this post at 8 in the morning you can see why __________________ ...

May 18th, 2006, 9:54:37 AM	#19
loaf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 104	i know i've already posted, i'm not trying to double vote. there is no good reason for banning weaker pokemon than we already have in uu. Top tier uu is far and above whatever most nfes can throw at you, and if people want to get their rocks off by losing with a combusken, i dont see any problem with that. Kadabra (perhaps grovyle, though it has to get up a safe sub, and is still worse than pluff) is the only problem because it's better at what it does than anything else in uu. Pupitar is outclassed by so much, perhaps shelgon would be a worry... but it can't quake like mence, and has no utilizable stab, so all its going to do is get shit on by golem, blastoise, meganium, togepi

May 18th, 2006, 11:09:07 AM	#20
Havak I'm the Best. You're a Towel. Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,279 Manchester, England, UK	IMO don't allow: Pupitar and Kadabra. Also, perhaps Vigoroth, Grovoyle, Haunter, Shelgon and Scyther. Definately Pupitar and Kadabra, the latter I'm not too bothered about, but would still like to see banned. __________________ UK VGC 2009 - Top 32 UK VGC 2010 - Top 32 UK VGC 2011 - Top 8 \| UK Nationals: 1-Up Events 2011 - Top 4 I chase the dream, not the competition.

May 18th, 2006, 11:10:51 AM	#21
Dan Dan Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,740 Ingerland	Keep UE out of the UU game

May 18th, 2006, 11:48:35 AM	#22
Siphai Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,465	Kadabra is my main consern because it outspeeds almost everything in the UU Metagame (Excluding Electrode, Manectric etc.) and has a huge Sp. Atk. If we have this, why would we use other Sp. Atkers?

May 18th, 2006, 12:45:58 PM	#23
stonerchris Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,733 Ontario Canada	no. just don't. its easier not to allow them then have to go through and determine which ones are OK and which are too similar to their fully evolved forms. it'll just cause unneccessary conflict.

May 18th, 2006, 3:55:29 PM	#25
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,835 Most of them are good	Just don't, it makes it all too wide, and some UE's are really just OU gimmicks you don't want in UU. Agreeing especially on the Kadabra matter. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings