Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

Uselesscrab · Mar 31, 2017

TI told me to post here:

Shoutouts Waterfall for not flinching me once throughout the entirety of this 28-game run. Might post my team later but I used this probably suboptimal Mimikyu set in almost every battle:

Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Def
Adamant Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance

Voting Mega Gyarados and Power Construct.

The opposing Mimikyu used Will-O-Wisp!
CLG Gravity [Donphan] avoided the attack!

☆XSTATIC COLD: didnt matter
☆XSTATIC COLD: you can't win

edit: changed my vote from Darkrai to Power Construct. I think it's important to take a look at Mega Gyarados, but Darkrai is more likely to be a significant threat than Zygarde-C, as annoying as the latter might be. Not sure if I'll vote to unban either.

Kentari · Mar 31, 2017

Darkrai and Mega-Gyarados.

If you can't beat Jirachi I don't know what to tell you. Also, every time Waterfall flinches you, that was about the chance of Jirachi flinching you 3 times in a row.

charizard8888 · Apr 1, 2017

Voting for suspecting Darkrai and Jirachi

Since the beginning of Gen 7 Mega Gyarados has been a huge threat and with its stats, sets of abilities, moves and type change its a really versatile Pokemon. Z-Moves have become common on teams but the meta has adapted to it. Mega Gyarados is one of our best answers to checking a lot (not all) of the Z-Move Users (Donphan, Crustle, Aegislash), Lv1 and Sturdy Pokemon. I'd rather say (that its not that broken) it kinda helps in balancing the meta by checking Sturdy and Z-Moves users. It can be defeated (Tapu group, Primarina, Porygon-Z, Mega Venusaur, Def HP invested Zard Y) and if it gets out then Z-Moves might become overpowered.

This one is interesting. Since the Dark Void nerf Darkrai has lost some viability but still is really good. It has great Speed, Special Attack, and moves (Dark Pulse, Spacial Rend, Roar Of Time, Sludge Bomb, Ice Beam, Trick). It can run a Specs, bulky, offensive Z move, Z-Hypnosis (might be worth it + Bad Dreams) and potentially a Scarf set as well. So it can run a variety of sets and looks pretty solid. It can be defeated by most Scarf users (Genesect, Kyurem-B,PZ), Mimikyu probably, special walls like Chansey, Umbreon (Trick can be used to defeat these or a really really gimmicky Wonder Room set) but its too early to say that without battling with.

Zygarde-Complete has a sky high 216 base HP stat which makes it difficult to defeat but Zygarde needs to get below 50% of its max HP to transform into the Complete forme which it might not be able to achieve due to abundance of Dragon- and Fairy- type Pokemon and Ice-type moves attackers. It gets good moves including Thousand Arrows and Extreme Speed and also has nice status moves I think it might run a Lum Berry set to get into complete forme, it didn't get a chance to be tested initially but it could be unbanned as it might not be able to go complete all the time and when it does it loses speed which is a major deterioration.

With Serene Grace and STAB moves - Zen Headbutt, Heart Stamp, and Iron Head Jirachi heavily relies on the flinch chance to win. Surely it can be defeated with faster scarfers like Garchomp and if it doesn't flinch but this involves Zero Skill and pure luck which doesn't add anything healthy to the meta. Removing Jirachi would help in making the meta better and a bit less dependent on pure luck.

Here's the team I used. Its good but contains some flaws
Basically when the opponent has Mega Gyarados, Kyurem-B and Donphan lure it and Mega Charizard Y is able to defeat that. I changed Air Slash to HP Electric for some time

Kyurem-Black @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Freeze Shock
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 72 HP / 156 Def / 64 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash / Hidden Power [Electric]
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Substitute

Donphan @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Head Smash
- Counter

Special thanks to UnleashOurPassion for helping in EVing the Mega Charizard Y set!

Edit: Fixed it! Consider the Pokemon as discussion points

Felucia · Apr 1, 2017

Kentari said:
Darkrai and Mega-Gyarados.

If you can't beat Jirachi I don't know what to tell you. Also, every time Waterfall flinches you, that was about the chance of Jirachi flinching you 3 times in a row.

The point for me isn't that I cannot beat Jirachi, it's that Jirachi is getting wins based purely on luck and not on skill. I don't think that kind of play deserves a place in 1v1

The Official Glyx · Apr 1, 2017

charizard8888 said:
Do Not ban Mega Gyarados
Unban Darkrai
Unban Power Construct
Ban Jirachi

You're voting on which two suspects you want to happen, not the actual ban/unban vote yet. The actual suspect comes later in the month. See UC and Kentari's posts above for examples.
~~Though the discussion points are at least appreciated~~

charizard8888 · Apr 1, 2017

The Official Glyx said:
You're voting on which two suspects you want to happen, not the actual ban/unban vote yet. The actual suspect comes later in the month. See UC and Kentari's posts above for examples.
~~Though the discussion points are at least appreciated~~

Oh I'm really sorry I'l edit that soon Thanks for pointing that out ~~dem this is embarrassing~~
Consider them as discussion points and since I'm proposing changes about Darkrai, Power Construct and Jirachi so I'll obviously nominate them for suspect but I'll still edit that post by adding these nominations (2 of them) and more info.

dom · Apr 2, 2017

ok so i got reqs at one point and then lost a bit. 3d posted on abr (council)s wall something very similar and abr said 3d keeps reqs. https://puu.sh/v6uBg/20e3f27ed7.png https://puu.sh/v6uRB/9f397ab406.png suspect gyara and power construct

Chloe · Apr 2, 2017

I don't see any reason to allow Darkrai in this metagame. I really just wanna see someone vote Jirachi and Darkrai for the irony but I'm gonna use mine properly. Let's go Mega Gyarados and Jirachi, even though I'll be voting to keep both in the metagame, in a potential suspect. Would post reasoning but that's so mainstream.

Felucia · Apr 2, 2017

Hello 1v1 people Passion here,
I'm just going to interrupt your PRES ~~I'm bad and can't pass the requirements~~ with a nice, big post about something unrelated

UnleashOurPassion: Writing my biggest post on any forum ever
Joker Testing 2: durant is life we get it :p

Step 1: Disclaimer
This is not an argumentation, it's strictly my thoughts, so don't call me out on "X is not an argument" I know this. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything I'm just stating a lot of things

Now that's out of the way
Let's talk about....

Kyurem-Black

Oh boy I missed the smalltext

UOP haven't you talked about your Kyurem-Black enough?
no I have, but this is not about that. This is about something way more important, at least in my opinion... Kyurem's presence in the metagame has caught my eye and I'm about to tell all of you why.

Kyurem has stats
o rly..

Starting from the top, Kyurem has a lot of base HP, just putting this into perspective: You can put 56 EVs in HP and suddenly seismic toss doesn't break substitute anymore.
Atk: 170? Does this need explaining... Uninvested Adamant Kyurem-Black has more Attack than Max Attack Jolly Mega-Gyarados. Let that sink in
Def, SpA, SpD: solid bulk allows for Kyurem to live some extreme hits given the right investment, pairing this with the great Attack stat and acceptable SpA stat you can make Kyurem into a very solid Weakness Policy abuser ~~why am I the only one who runs that~~
Spe: Although the speed is a bit awkward being just below base 100 it's enough to outspeed common metagame threats. Scarf Kyurem could outspeed Mega Gyarados after Dragon Dance and 2HKO with Fusion Bolt, before people started EVs to talk fusion bolt that is...

Why this is worrying me

Kyurem never really had a viable physical ice move. I mean, you could power herb freeze shock but bad times if that's knocked off. Nowadays with Icium-Z here there is no more worries about physical ice moves, instead you click that button and OHKO whatever is in front of you. Hard to stop that is, but not uncontrollable. Just block it with a steel or water type right..

right?
Ignore that header, it's supposed to say "sets" or something like that

Oops, sorry (Kyurem-Black) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast

252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Tectonic Rage (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 350-412 (96.1 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Who needs SpD (Kyurem-Black) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Def
Naughty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Outrage

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 104 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 352-416 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 152+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Gyarados-Mega: 378-446 (95.9 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Domination (Kyurem-Black) @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 156 Def / 44 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Freeze Shock
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt

52+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 136-161 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
52+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 91-108 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

If you just time your substitutes right you can't lose...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-556111359
This replay shows the scenario in which aegislash gets the most damage off.
It's prediction-heavy but by no means a counter.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-555656110
Classic: Aegislash players predicting another substitute

My set
and how it beats things

Domination (Kyurem-Black) @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 156 Def / 44 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Freeze Shock
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt

A list sorted by usage (top25)

Note 1: Skipping Kyurem because it's the mirror match and it's pretty obvious Kyurem can beat Kyurem If Kyurem couldn't beat Kyurem then we'd need to ban it for breaking the endless-battle-clause :^)
Note 2: Dazzle isn't too common on koko, also modest dazzle is a roll
Note 3: That was a speed tie..
Note 4: For fun I assumed no flinches (took me only 2 tries to get the replay :o)
Note 5: Most crustle don't even run HP so normally it isn't even a roll...
Note 6: I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE LOST THAT MATCHUP ;-;
https://pastebin.com/PKQWycEm <--- The sets I used

The point I'm trying to make

Kyurem-Black is going out of control. It's versatile, can run any Z-Move to improve matchups, or even weakness policy to turn common losses into wins. I haven't even talked about Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Haban Berry, Assault Vest or Choice Specs. You never know what your opponent is using, and even if you do know it's going to be hard to stop it.
We're currently pre-suspecting 2 of the things that ~~usually~~ beat it. I'm thinking if those do end up leaving I don't know what's going to keep Kyurem in check. I can see myself getting into an endless loop of counterteaming, switching between Durant and Magearna in order to keep Kyurem in check.

I'm worried about the future, regardless of the Gyarados suspect/ban I'm not sure if Kyurem is healthy for the metagame.

most of all, the Kyurem-matter needs some attention
I guess that's what I've just given it

I don't have any final words. I don't want to say BAN or LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS. I want to say this:
talk
because nobody is really doing it

Time to leave,
~Mez
There go 6 hours of my life

Special thanks to XSTATIC COLD for complaining until I finally felt obliged to think about my actions and thanks to Uselesscrab he was the trigger for this post when he mentioned groundium

Gross Sweep · Apr 2, 2017

Took way to long, but that clutch 75.0 is pretty legit. Obviously the beast that is M-Gyarados needs a suspect. My next choice is my boy Zygarde, and his ability Power Construct - I honestly believe Zygod will end up B ranked, so why keep him in chains. Also thanks to Kentari and Uselesscrab for the teams, wouldn't have gotten reqs without them.

Felucia · Apr 3, 2017

HELL YEAH ~~that took a while~~

Jirachi needs to get out of my life and I need Darkrai to give my opponents more nightmares

Kentari "Why use this trash set"
UnleashOurPassion "Because it works"
Kentari "Does it though?"
yes.

ENORMOUS thanks to partys over I'd have given up if not for him, when I really thought I wasn't cut out for 1v1 he talked to me and convinced me to keep going

RNGIsFatal · Apr 3, 2017

I couldn't get the reqs ~~because autistic RNG made me miss 10 Hydro Cannons~~ but I would like to make a suggestion regardless.

Jirachi is easy. Single flinch chance is 60%, second is 36%, three in a row is 20.4%, and so on. There is no reason to lose against Jirachi if you have better typing, unless your opponent has bribed programmers to pull their ladder out of the cauldron of hell.

But including me, people are tired of the coin-flip shenanigans, so I would support ban / suspect.

Kyurem-B must be on the radar. It has ubers-class stats which is totally unacceptable, and its Teravolt allows it to overpower opponents using sheer power without having to worry about Sturdy, or other abilities that hinder damage.
Also literally no one likes taking Subzero Slammer from this.

Mega Gyarados, I would say, it deserves suspect. It essentially has 2 S class abilities, Intimidate and Mold Breaker.
Intimidate, paired with 130 Sp Def after Mega Evolution, lets Gyarados live almost any one hit that is not supereffective, and Mold Breaker lets it win against Levitate Earthquake haters, Sturdy, Unaware, and level 1 shenanigans.
Also its movepool is very vast in 1v1 metagame. Outrage lets it safely KO Charizard X and Kyurem-B at +1 from Dragon Dance, Waterfall takes care of Golem and it sometimes fish a flinch by 820% chance, and Crunch lets it deal with walls and often reduces Defensive stats. Taunt, while it might seem like a weird choice, lets it win against the likes of Chansey and Toxapex.
It is not that overpowering, but due to its absurb utility and base power, as well as 2 abilities it can abuse before and after Mega Evolution, I say ban / suspect.

Darkrai? ~~Not reliant on hax as much because of Nasty Plot and Z-crystals, so I would say its~~ ~~ok to unban.~~ BUT, because Nasty Plot turns it into a deadly wallbreaker which is not appropriate to exist in OU banlist, I changed my mind here.

Zygarde-C, no need to ban this. It is defeatable, and many attackers in 1v1 metagame are designed to net OHKO with sheer power which Zygyarde-50% can't handle too well.

I have no reqs so my post might be neglected but this is what I have been wishing to express.

Chrispy Burns · Apr 3, 2017

Well this is the closest I got to making it, imo 75% is hard as heck.

Ban Darkrai
Darkrai's great speed and solid 135 SpA is too overwhelming. With gimmick sets running hypnosis with nasty plot, and scarier sets running Roar of Time to take out unscarfed dragons; the meta will need faster threats to start stepping up. There will be a sharp decline in prankster users as the new gen 7 dark buff gives it immunity to their status moves as well as magic coat being thrown on to catch other darkrai trying to put it to sleep or tossing back deoxy's taunts. Darkrai has just too much coverage to be considered here.
Reliable Darkrai killers: Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, unburdened pokemon with fake out, sturdy pokemon with speed.

Keep Mega Gyarados
Mega Gyarados is an amazing pokemon however, it is amazing because it keeps pokemon in check. In a metagame were sturdy pokemon run the strangest sets, it's necessary for mold breaker pokemon such as Kyurem B, Gyarados, etc to keep those gimmicks in check.

Test Zygarde-C then decide if the meta is healthy
I'll cautiously allow Zygarde-C into this metagame. It sounds a little too dangerous for my liking due to its crazy bulk and access to an item. Fortunately there are faster pokemon with a strong ice beam that can put this gundam to rest. A fully defensive Zygarde-C will still take ~50% from a Z-Subzero Slammer through protect from a 252 atk Kyurem-B. Zygarde's 5 move syndrome, lack of great recovery, and suseptability to stall mons such as chansey and ferrothorn

Keep Jirachi
-I don't like it, but I don't want to ban it because it beats my teams. If you can't find a Jirachi killer, sorry about that. There is a ton of serene grace abuse and banning the best one at it doesn't stop 1v1 from being grossly dependent on rng

The Official Glyx · Apr 3, 2017

Disappointingly fast reqs, but oh well-

Anyways before I make any discussion-y points; voting Jirachi and Zygarde-Complete.

JIRACHI-

This thing ruins the lives of people who don't have Mega Gallade with Knock Off, because there's literally nothing other than Inner Focus mons or faster mons (Lol who uses Deo-S anymore ;-;) that can safely stop it. I've been around long enough to see this nuisance take down things like Heatran, Magnezone, Charizard, Victini, Gyarados, Metagross lacking Bullet Punch, and even the years it takes to whittle down Slowbro all with just sheer 60% flinches. I'm aware that this isn't the most likely chance in the world to get repeatedly, but it has the bulk to make it last 2 or 3 times longer than most other serene grace flinchers, and is immune to being poisoned, which further enhances its longevity. The closest thing you can get to stalling it is with either prankster mons or rocky helmet/rough skin/barbs, which it can negate through ko-ing Garchomp faster than rough skin hurts it, and packing Fire Punch/Trick for Ferro.
And before you say "well why not suspect togekiss too?", Togekiss lacks Jirachi's bulk, defensive typing, speed, movepool, and accuracy, alongside its only viable set of bulky Thunder Wave now being crippled badly due to gen 7 nerfs. It might be able to handle some things a little better than Jirachi, but it still ends up falling flat against other Scarfs and almost any priority, while Jirachi outpaces most typical scarfers and resists most priority.
Many people will agree when I say that it's a no-skill set that you can easily use to mess with people who don't have dedicated counters to it like Heatran/Victini/Metagross/Aegislash/ ~~Gyarados?~~ since these 4 aren't by any means things you'd want to have on every single team.
I crossed out Gyarados because that one can be up for debate, it takes 9+ hits to KO and typically will have one/two turns to let Gyarados do something and live.

ZYGARDE-

I'm not certain with this one in all honesty-
~~As I was typing this I came up with what I can guarantee will be the viable set for Zygarde and now I want this to happen more than ever~~

DARKRAI-

I really don't want Darkrai to be allowed in 1v1, I fear it will be a similar case of what happened when Stabmons unbanned Darkrai where the power gap it created was just too much to bear. Picture Gengar-Mega with slightly better bulk, an insignificantly lower amount of speed, actual setup with Nasty Plot, the capability to hold items, and the ability to roar so loudly that time itself stops. Scary thought, huh.
It wouldn't break the meta by any means, it would just make things become unhealthily centralized around the "good mons" while the lesser mons just can't keep up with the raw bst of many of the mons we allow.

GYARADOS-

Gyarados is best compared to a significantly less nuclear or bulky Salamence where you have to pick what you beat rather than beating everything with one set.
It's constantly struggling with move selection and the dreaded 4-move-syndrome, since it cannot cover everything it can or even wants to in just 4 move slots. Not to mention it can't even cover all of the common threats in just one EV spread;

Running max atk to 50/50 intimidate mawile with EQ means you either won't have enough bulk to dodge 2hkos from PZ/Zardy/Kyub, OR you'll be too slow to outspeed Pinsir, Zard x/y, Crustle, and others after a Dragon Dance.

Running the bulk necessary to safely take 2 Fusion bolts while still outspeeding base 110 mons after a Dance means Mawile now cleanly 2hkos you while plain ol' timid zardy now has a chance at just beating you normally due to your weaker damage output, Metagross need only bring Thunder Punch and a handful of HP evs, Slowbro basically just walks all over you now, Meloetta has a much higher chance of blasting you away as well as taking a Crunch, Mimikyu almost plain takes a +1 attack and smacks you down with Twinkle, any chances of 2hkoing Venusaur have now been dashed, and so much more.

Running the bulk to withstand every threat possible now leaves you with either a cripplingly low speed or attack stat, which are bad for a multitude of reasons.

In contrast to Darkrai's effect on 1v1, banning Gyarados would result in a massive over-decentralization where a lot of the aptly named "cancer" sets now suddenly spring up in viability due to one of the biggest things holding them back being gone, which ultimately makes 1v1 even less competitive. Not to mention, it would set a bad precedent for future bans, which could potentially spiral downwards to the exaggerated point where we're basically all using Magikarp.

Freddy Kyogre · Apr 3, 2017

Finally at last... after all these hard hours of restarting over and over again ~~definitely not haxing people and being tilted~~

I am actually quite proud of myself for being able to do this (even if I did use a bit of help

UOP is my waifu), and this has been actually one of my biggest goals I have ever achieved (lol it's kinda sad now that I think about it)

So my thoughts...........

Suspect ban Jirachi
I know this is really biased but I absolutely hate this thing with all my heart (I'M SORRY WHALE). It just absolutely boggles my mind how clutch this thing can be with just a bit of luck, and it is extremely tilting to not be able to do anything as thing thing flinches you over and over and over again.

Keep Mega Gyarados
I honestly don't think this is much of a problem really. Many things counter it, such as Tapu Koko, ~~Electrium z Kyurem~~, Char Y (YES THIS DOES WIN (I'm pretty sure everytime you dont miss :/) AND HERE IS PROOF http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-556826655 40 HP / 252 SPD evs and it still dies)

Keep Darkrai Banned
I feel like this thing will kinda be a lot like Jirachi, where you have the 60% chance to win (hypnosis), or just a way too fast mon which just nukes literally everything and will have an extremely versatile move set, but it might be interesting, but IMO it won't really be healthy for the meta.

Unban Power Construct
Honestly, Power Construct Zygarde doesn't really seem like a threat at all. As many have said, it has many flaws, such as it needs to get hit before transforming, and the transformation only gives it bulk, not anything else (except less speed), along with the fact that any ice beam from just about anywhere will ohko it, and with sash not available, it becomes pretty hard to get your transformation guaranteed.

Conclusion On Thoughts:

Voting for Jirachi and Zygarde

A bit about me: I'm just an everyday kid who wants to be like the big guys in 1v1 and Ubers, and to be finally good at those game modes. This finally makes me feel like I've done something that many others haven't, so I thought that's pretty cool. Maybe some day I'll be like the greats, such as UOP. My favorite mons are Kyogre and Deerling, and my favorite game mode is 1v1, seconded by ubers, and then BH. I love making off meta stuff, and seeing how surprised they get when i try them (such as my patented Electrium Z kyurem B, Endure Char y, and mirror coat deoxys attack with sash in Ubers).
Thanks
Thanks to the 1v1 community, and the people from the discord. Shoutouts to God Of Hitmonlee for being friendly about this stuff, Kentari for being great about it, and DEG for making me actually have to hit the goal (lol).

Biggest shoutout goes to UOP. He is completely underrated in his 1v1 skill, and I think is potentially the best player in this game mode. He has helped me so much through this whole process, and was the first person to truly welcome me into this community, and was the nicest to me by far. He is one of the most kind-hearted people I have ever known, going up just near people like my parents. He has been an outstanding friend who was always there when I needed help, even when he was on leave. He encouraged me to keep doing this until I finally hit the reqs, and when I was close, he was my biggest support, and made me want to keep going. He talked to me when I was under my awkward locked-stage (THANKS ROHAN), and has enabled me to become a part of this game mode, even if that part is incredibly small or seemingly insignificant. He is by far the nicest person I have ever met on PS, and I am very thankful for him and his encouragement. Everyday, I look forward to hearing about how hes doing on ladder, and his latest ideas/sets, and I hope to continue to be friends with him as I become a bigger part of the community.

Nalei · Apr 4, 2017

Tai_Lopez9001 said:
View attachment 80232
Finally at last... after all these hard hours of restarting over and over again ~~definitely not haxing people and being tilted~~

I am actually quite proud of myself for being able to do this (even if I did use a bit of help UOP is my waifu), and this has been actually one of my biggest goals I have ever achieved (lol it's kinda sad now that I think about it)

So my thoughts...........

Suspect ban Jirachi
I know this is really biased but I absolutely hate this thing with all my heart (I'M SORRY WHALE). It just absolutely boggles my mind how clutch this thing can be with just a bit of luck, and it is extremely tilting to not be able to do anything as thing thing flinches you over and over and over again.

Keep Mega Gyarados
I honestly don't think this is much of a problem really. Many things counter it, such as Tapu Koko, ~~Electrium z Kyurem~~, Char Y (YES THIS DOES WIN (I'm pretty sure everytime you dont miss :/) AND HERE IS PROOF http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-556826655 40 HP / 252 SPD evs and it still dies)

Keep Darkrai Banned
I feel like this thing will kinda be a lot like Jirachi, where you have the 60% chance to win (hypnosis), or just a way too fast mon which just nukes literally everything and will have an extremely versatile move set, but it might be interesting, but IMO it won't really be healthy for the meta.

Unban Power Construct
Honestly, Power Construct Zygarde doesn't really seem like a threat at all. As many have said, it has many flaws, such as it needs to get hit before transforming, and the transformation only gives it bulk, not anything else (except less speed), along with the fact that any ice beam from just about anywhere will ohko it, and with sash not available, it becomes pretty hard to get your transformation guaranteed.
Conclusion On Thoughts:

Voting for Jirachi and Zygarde

A bit about me: I'm just an everyday kid who wants to be like the big guys in 1v1 and Ubers, and to be finally good at those game modes. This finally makes me feel like I've done something that many others haven't, so I thought that's pretty cool. Maybe some day I'll be like the greats, such as UOP. My favorite mons are Kyogre and Deerling, and my favorite game mode is 1v1, seconded by ubers, and then BH. I love making off meta stuff, and seeing how surprised they get when i try them (such as my patented Electrium Z kyurem B, Endure Char y, and mirror coat deoxys attack with sash in Ubers).
Thanks
Thanks to the 1v1 community, and the people from the discord. Shoutouts to God Of Hitmonlee for being friendly about this stuff, Kentari for being great about it, and DEG for making me actually have to hit the goal (lol).

Biggest shoutout goes to UOP. He is completely underrated in his 1v1 skill, and I think is potentially the best player in this game mode. He has helped me so much through this whole process, and was the first person to truly welcome me into this community, and was the nicest to me by far. He is one of the most kind-hearted people I have ever known, going up just near people like my parents. He has been an outstanding friend who was always there when I needed help, even when he was on leave. He encouraged me to keep doing this until I finally hit the reqs, and when I was close, he was my biggest support, and made me want to keep going. He talked to me when I was under my awkward locked-stage (THANKS ROHAN), and has enabled me to become a part of this game mode, even if that part is incredibly small or seemingly insignificant. He is by far the nicest person I have ever met on PS, and I am very thankful for him and his encouragement. Everyday, I look forward to hearing about how hes doing on ladder, and his latest ideas/sets, and I hope to continue to be friends with him as I become a bigger part of the community.

Gyarados wins unless you run bulky Zard Y or slow Gyara.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 301-355 (101.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, UOP is bad ;)

Haven't made reqs yet, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on Zygarde, Darkrai and Jirachi.
I feel like people are overhyping Power Construct. In 1v1, you can't just bring in Zygarde against the right things. In most situations, your opponent will flat out OHKO you, or you win regardless of whether or not you run PC. Not sure what kind of sets It'll run yet, but I feel like this shouldn't be a priority: the impact is too small to justify a suspect when things like our other 3 candidates are out there.

I also feel that Darkrai is being overhyped, but not to the extent of Zygod. It has a great movepool and stats, but at the end of the day I don't think it's problematic (see my previous post on Darkrai). As for the Hypnosis potential... sleep users rely almost entirely on speed, so it's really just a less problematic Gengar with that set.

Jirachi is just a cunt to be frank. It brings minimal value to teambuilding (beats less than a third of S/A rank mons assuming turn 1 flinch, no flinch on turn 2) and relies on hax to have any effectiveness. As for Gyarados, I don't feel very strongly.

lost heros · Apr 4, 2017

Yep, so I got my reqs. I know what you're thinking. "25-2! 80.1% GXE! Wow lost heros! That's fantastic! Please share your team, so I, someone who is not you, can learn how to be as good as you are." Well, I suppose, if you really want to bask in my glory that much. I guess I have to show you my team.

Carracosta @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 SpD / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake

Vivillon-Marine @ Leftovers
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance

Buzzwole @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 200 HP / 180 Atk / 128 Def
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Lunge
- Bulk Up
- Roost

Now let's take a closer look into each pokemon!

Have you ever thought to yourself, "Wow Crustle's use of Shell Smash and Rockium Z is pretty cool." And then you thought, "Wow Donphan use of Rockium Z and priority move is pretty cool." You see, I thought that too. But then I thought, what if but both. And then came Carracosta, who is weaker and slower. This thing is responsible for like 95% of my wins during my run. That's pretty much it.

Have you ever thought, "What if Jumpluff was more accurate at the cost of a significant amount of speed?" Then you probably thought, "Wait speed is the whole point of Jumpluff. Why not just use Curse Mimikyu for that?" You see, the difference between me and you is I then thought, "Fuck that's boring. Let's use Vivillion." Warning, this will only work with Vivillion-Marine and no other Vivillion form.

This is someone else's spread and I never used it once.

Now be careful! There is no such thing as a perfect team! Here are some pokemon that hard counter it!

Wood Hammer Mimikyu: I know most Mimikyu's already carry Wood Hammer, but unfortunately it does just beat the whole team. It wins. Nothing really on the team can stop it.

Hawlucha: Another really popular pokemon. Hawlucha can just uses Mold Breaker to break through Carracosta, good speed to beat Vivillion, and flying STAB to beat Buzzwole. Eh oh well.

Situations where you might want to use Buzzwole: Now these are the most dangerous situations. Sometimes the opponent just has a team that would be 3-0d by Buzzwole. But you can't be lured in. You must resist this and click one of the other two pokemon.

Skillful Opponents: These guys tend to beat this team no matter what. Oh well.

.

Shoutouts:
Stone Edge: For not missing
Dream Eater Gengar: For never being there
Lost Hero: For being on the Do Not Use Rank

On a more serious note, I'll be voting for Jirachi and then Mega Gyarados. Jirachi is dumb. It's definition uncompetitive and relies solely on unskilled flinches. There is very little counterplay against it. It's not that it's difficult to beat, it's that it is literal dice rolling EVERY GAME. That doesn't belong in a skill-based meta. I'm on the fence on Darkrai because it's very powerful, can abuse sleep, and has insane coverage. I definitely don't want Zygarde-C. We already have enough stupidly Bulky Physically Offensive and we really don't need another. Especially considering UOP brought up that we should really look into banning the most notorious one. As for Mega Gyarados, I have yet to be convinced from the last time I posted about it. It has 4MSS and a large opportunity cost. If we do suspect it, I'll be voting to keep it in the meta.

Some other things that we should look at:
Accuracy lowering moves: In 1v1, they're practically the same thing as evasion boosting moves.
Kyurem-B: With Icium Z as a more viable CB set from last gen, Kyurem-B is a strong force to be reckoned with. It's very difficult to counter thanks to it's multitude of sets. People have been using so many things like Choice Scarf, Icium Z, Choice Specs, Weakness Policy, Haban Berry, Groundium Z, Electrium Z and probably more.

Edit: I changed my vote from Abstain to Mega Gyarados. While I still don't believe MGyara is broken or close to broken. I would rather suspect test anything rather than waste another month not doing anything.

Deleted User 91486 · Apr 4, 2017

It looks like your team is unprepared for stall, mainly Deoxys-D, since it outspeeds all of your pokemon and taunts them before they can get a single setup move/substitute off.

Freddy Kyogre · Apr 4, 2017

MaceMaster said:
Gyarados wins unless you run bulky Zard Y or slow Gyara.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 301-355 (101.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, UOP is bad ;)

1st of all, HEY UOP IS GREAT CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE

2nd of all, If you run stupid zard Y (thats what I call full offense) then i have no idea what youre doing and yes you probably should lose against gyara m. Also, I have literally never seen crunch on Gyara, and waterfall still should do more damage, even with sun.

lost heros · Apr 4, 2017

Tai_Lopez9001 said:
1st of all, HEY UOP IS GREAT CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE

2nd of all, If you run stupid zard Y (thats what I call full offense) then i have no idea what youre doing and yes you probably should lose against gyara m. Also, I have literally never seen crunch on Gyara, and waterfall still should do more damage, even with sun.

From February Usage Stats @ 1630

Charizard-Mega-Y
Spreads | | Timid:0/0/0/252/4/252 42.446% | | Timid:244/0/0/252/0/12 6.884% | | Modest:56/0/112/188/0/152 4.169% | | Modest:252/0/0/252/0/4 3.698% | | Timid:0/0/4/252/0/252 2.512% | | Modest:0/0/0/252/4/252 2.497% | | Other 37.794%

Gyarados-Mega
Moves | | Dragon Dance 98.098% | | Waterfall 89.899% | | Outrage 85.414% | | Crunch 46.565% | | Taunt 36.973% | | Earthquake 29.210% | | Other 13.840%

Crunch, Outrage, and Waterfall all actually do roughly the same.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 300-354 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 300-354 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 300-353 (101 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Gyarados usually beats Mega Charizard Y.

Nalei · Apr 4, 2017

Damn it's hard to ladder using meme teams. Well done, Type: Null, Regirock, Deo-S and Barbaracle! [Bonus: 1v1 Meme!] Jirachi is a bad mon that is uncompetitive and makes high ladder players lose when they should won, crushing dreams. Please ban this saucy boy. I was the one who first suggested we unban Darkrai, so I naturally want it as my second choice for suspect.

Thanks to...
UnleashOurPassion, for being bad
Freddy Kyogre, for the help
Morgan Freeman, for narrating everyone's life
RNGisCancer, for missing Metal Sound every gorydamn time
Peoples of the 1v1 room, for watching my struggles

Freddy Kyogre · Apr 5, 2017

lost heros said:
Crunch, Outrage, and Waterfall all actually do roughly the same.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 300-354 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 300-354 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 300-353 (101 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Gyarados usually beats Mega Charizard Y.

Ok correction:
+1 252+ Atk Gyarados Outrage vs. 0 HP / 132 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 220-259 (74 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Outrage seems to do more damage by like 0.7% for some reason...)

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 132 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 257-303 (86.5 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
This is my set. I basically have a 7/8 chance to win if for some strange reason, my opponent runs absolute max attack possible.

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 252-296 (84.8 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is the set necessary for Char Y to no longer be able to be OHKOd by Gyara M even with maximum attack stats.

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 296-349 (99.6 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Literally the minimum amount of bulk you need to put into char y for a really small percent chance to live.

Gyarados-Mega
Spreads | | Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 15.389% | | Jolly:0/252/0/0/4/252 7.817% | | Jolly:252/88/4/0/0/164 5.704% | | Jolly:0/204/0/0/52/252 5.035% | | Jolly:252/88/0/0/0/168 4.999% | | Adamant:104/196/100/0/8/100 3.168% | | Other 57.888% |

Not every Gyara Mega is Adamant with max attack. Char Y should win against those, and the matchup in general, especially because of this.

Conclusion: Char Y if EVd correctly should be able to beat any Gyara M, especially if they are not adamant with max attack (that is, not including flinch or crits).

RNGIsFatal · Apr 5, 2017

Voting regardless.

Voting for:

Ban / suspect Mega Gyarados.
Leave Darkrai banned.

My stance towards suspect subjects are posted in THIS POST.

Team used:

- ban me please

Importable down here.

Horny AF (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head just kidding run Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Not Sturdy (Magnezone) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Metal Sound

Sushit (Gyarados-Mega) (M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 104 HP / 196 Atk / 104 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

ericaroselia · Apr 5, 2017

Voting Darkrai and 100% Zygarde.

Elo Bandit · Apr 5, 2017

Vote to suspect Mega Gyarados and Darkrai.

Reasoning for Gyarados:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0d_M6IWVTg

Honestly, I don't think Gyarados should be banned. However, if he isn't suspected at some point he'll forever be seen as OP / best mon in the tier.

Something about typing and stats

Reasoning for Darkrai:
It's in a very interesting speed tier and gets fun moves like Endure (+boosting berry could be fun), Sub, decent coverage with Tbolt to hit Gyara, etc. Scarf and Specs sets will be fun. I'll probs try Z-Dark Pulse, maybe in combination with Nasty Plot. Without a super accurate Dark Void, Darkrai would make an excellent addition to the tier.

Reasoning for NOT picking Zygarde and Jirachi:
Zygarde honestly looks like he could potentially work in the tier. I don't think he'd be as healthy for the metagame as Darkrai, and I only get two votes. Also his stats scare me.

Jirachi works like any other pokemon in the tier. It has things it always beats (Pory-Z, Non-Babiri Whims, Kyu-B, etc.), things it always loses to (Gyara, Char X, Mawile), and things it sometimes beats (Char Y, Magearna, Mimikyu). Sure, it's a bit more luck based than most pokemon, but a lot of pokemon have a significant luck element (lots of 70-80% acc moves like Edge, Focus Miss, Magma Storm, etc) that decides some of their matchups. Jirachi has a similar chance (somewhere around 20%) of flinching 3 times in a row with Iron Head / Heart Stamp meaning it's really no more likely than a lot of other pokemon to win when it shouldn't or lose when it shouldn't. Sure, it has the potential to win almost anything, but if you use Jirachi enough you'll average out at 60% flinch and lose a bunch of matches you only needed one flinch to win.

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