Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

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lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
Alright, this'll be my "Why Jirachi Doesn't Belong in the 1v1 Metagame Post" because despite my best efforts on PS! and discord, some people still don't believe me.

Honestly, there really isn't much to Jirachi. It's got 100 stats across the board, which is good although not extraordinary. It's good a good defensive typing with Steel/Psychic which is weak to Dark, Fire, Ghost, and Ground-types. Offensively, Steel/Psychic STAB hits the vast majority of the metagame for neutral damage bar Mega Slowbro, Mega Gyarados, Aegislash, and Mega Metagross. Just looking at it like that it doesn't look like a problem, in fact it looks entirely underwhelming. However, all that frankly doesn't matter. The only thing that matters to Jirachi is Serene Grace + 2 STAB Flinch options.

With a base 100 speed paired with a Choice Scarf, it out speeds the entire unboosted metagame. Most opposing Choice Scarf users have less than 100 speed leaving very few situations where Jirachi doesn't go first. Then it simply clicks Iron Head or Heart Stamp and puts the entire game up to chance. 60% the first hit. 60% the second hit. 60% the third hit. The likelihood of beating 1 pokemon depends directly on the number of flinches that happen. This puts the entire game in an RNG-dependent situation. No skill is relevant. Just raw luck.

In response to "Other things are RNG-dependent": Yes, things like crits, rolls, and misses are RNG-dependent. However, Jirachi is the only pokemon that solely relies on pure RNG. If you miss, get crit, get a low roll, yes that's bad luck, but the whole strategy isn't based on that. If you're using Hydro Cannon from Mega Blastoise, your opponent's counterplay isn't miss. It's use an electric type pokemon, substitute, etc. Jirachi's counterplay is "survive long enough hoping they don't get a flinch a couple of times".

In response to "Jirachi has counterplay": Yes, you can use inner focus. Although, lol. Be faster. Again, very, very few pokemon are faster, and they tend not to have large bulk meaning you can't guarentee they'll win. Yes you can use Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak. That's pretty much it. Non-RNG counterplay is so minimal and rare, it's practically irrelevant. Mega Mawile is pretty much the only hard counter.
 
(that 11 is actually a 1, the system is messed up the current time of writing this)

You see, what I have learned throughout the almost two years I have been playing 1v1, I have learned one thing. When the game stats tell you there is exactly a 6.25% of getting a critical hit, what it actually means is there is a 100% chance every single time you are one or two games off your goal. Anyways:

Vote suspect for Zygarde-Complete (Power Construct) and Darkrai.

S/o UOP for being a G.

Edit: I guess I should provide a reasoning for my choices. User: Rosalyn/Glyx has brought to my attention that the community might ban Gyarados-Mega if said suspect goes down, hence why I am not voting for it. Zygarde-Complete and Darkrai because I like memes, case closed. Jirachi is mediocre, I have turned off my computer furiously a couple times I must admit, but it's not enough for me to vote for a whole suspect on it.

partys over:>not shouting me out
SHOUTOUT TO MY BEST FRIEND IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE, MR. PARTYS OVER!!!! ex dee
 
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Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Alright, this'll be my "Why Jirachi Doesn't Belong in the 1v1 Metagame Post" because despite my best efforts on PS! and discord, some people still don't believe me.

Honestly, there really isn't much to Jirachi. It's got 100 stats across the board, which is good although not extraordinary. It's good a good defensive typing with Steel/Psychic which is weak to Dark, Fire, Ghost, and Ground-types. Offensively, Steel/Psychic STAB hits the vast majority of the metagame for neutral damage bar Mega Slowbro, Mega Gyarados, Aegislash, and Mega Metagross. Just looking at it like that it doesn't look like a problem, in fact it looks entirely underwhelming. However, all that frankly doesn't matter. The only thing that matters to Jirachi is Serene Grace + 2 STAB Flinch options.

With a base 100 speed paired with a Choice Scarf, it out speeds the entire unboosted metagame. Most opposing Choice Scarf users have less than 100 speed leaving very few situations where Jirachi doesn't go first. Then it simply clicks Iron Head or Heart Stamp and puts the entire game up to chance. 60% the first hit. 60% the second hit. 60% the third hit. The likelihood of beating 1 pokemon depends directly on the number of flinches that happen. This puts the entire game in an RNG-dependent situation. No skill is relevant. Just raw luck.

In response to "Other things are RNG-dependent": Yes, things like crits, rolls, and misses are RNG-dependent. However, Jirachi is the only pokemon that solely relies on pure RNG. If you miss, get crit, get a low roll, yes that's bad luck, but the whole strategy isn't based on that. If you're using Hydro Cannon from Mega Blastoise, your opponent's counterplay isn't miss. It's use an electric type pokemon, substitute, etc. Jirachi's counterplay is "survive long enough hoping they don't get a flinch a couple of times".

In response to "Jirachi has counterplay": Yes, you can use inner focus. Although, lol. Be faster. Again, very, very few pokemon are faster, and they tend not to have large bulk meaning you can't guarentee they'll win. Yes you can use Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak. That's pretty much it. Non-RNG counterplay is so minimal and rare, it's practically irrelevant. Mega Mawile is pretty much the only hard counter.
You can't even use sucker punch in most situations...
Non-stab Sucker Punch need Adamant base 130 to 2HKO
Also against common meta pokémon the average all-flinch-before-death is 20%
Imagine if you could just give all your opponents 80% accuracy (hustle :o), that wouldn't be okay! so why is it okay when someone literally wins 1 out of 5 matches based on nothing.
 
You can't even use sucker punch in most situations...
Non-stab Sucker Punch need Adamant base 130 to 2HKO
Also against common meta pokémon the average all-flinch-before-death is 20%
Imagine if you could just give all your opponents 80% accuracy (hustle :o), that wouldn't be okay! so why is it okay when someone literally wins 1 out of 5 matches based on nothing.
hes also neglecting to mention that it 2hkos kyurem... that just makes it that much worse. Also, it does quite well against rock types and fighting types, such as Sawk.
 
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Whatup whatup my homies, it's neXi here, and after dubious luck and some grinding I was able to get my pres.



My first vote goes to Mega Gyarados, because it's really powerful. Don't know if it's banworthy, but it's certainly worth testing.

Second vote goes to Darkrai because that dude is baller now that dark void isn't a thing.
 


Yeah this is my first ever post not only on the 1v1 forums, but Smogon as a whole haha. Finally got my reqs after losing to a Fire Blast Slaking which I'm sure DEG really enjoyed spectating >.>. Anyways, my votes go to Banning Jirachi and Unbanning Darkrai! You can expect to see a couple more posts from me on heat teams and such in the future. Peace~
 
Pre-suspect is over and nothing is getting suspected.

Mega-Gyarados: 58%
Darkrai: 53%
Jirachi: 47%
Power Construct: 37%

As of both last vote, they didn't count since they were past the deadline though and that was partly my fault but they didn't matter anyways, if I counted them nothing would of have changed.
 
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RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
I had couple people that I know who said there was a mistake in vote count. Below is the screenshot of the statistics that took me 5 attempts to make it accurate.
upload_2017-4-8_23-18-24.png


...

Also I have general comment about that metagame so this won't be a shitpost.

Let's talk more about Kyurem-B, and I agree that all 4 of the 'mons are worthy being discussed. But since UnleashOurPassion made points about Kyu-B, lets pay some attention to it. It is so much more threatening with Z-crystals and fat bulk investment.
 
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For suspect of next month I subject we just do....

Ban Mega Gyaradose : Mega Gyaradose is one of the best pokemon in 1v1. You can just throw it on a team and you will do fine. Mega Gyaradose has mold breaker and pretty good overall raw stats. In non-mega form it has itemidate which increases its viablity even more.

Ban Kyurem-Black : Kyurem-Black is one of the most used pokemon. It has good stats and trevolt (mold breaker). It can be built so many different ways it is hard to deal with. From bulky to scarf killer to z-move. Kyurem-Black most of the time counter is itself.

Unban Darkrai : Darkrai is a strong pokemon. It has high Special attack with high speed. It's problem is that Darkrai can't live a hit or 2. With dark void losing accuracy, Darkrai won't run is all the time. Darkrai was banned when dark void was a problem, now with z moves Darkrai will become a strong pick like both Charizards quickly.

and I guess you could do Jirachi to, but we aren't likely to get a suspect. So just take everything that was 50+ and add Kyurem-Black.
 
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pizzq

Banned deucer.
just because gyarados is one of the best pokemon doesnt mean we ban it

same thing goes for kyurem

i think next month we should focus on banning the uncompetitive jirachi and possibly unbanning darkrai and zygardec
 
just because gyarados is one of the best pokemon doesnt mean we ban it

same thing goes for kyurem

i think next month we should focus on banning the uncompetitive jirachi and possibly unbanning darkrai and zygardec
jirachi didnt get over 50% hence most people dont want it banned

i you cant beat jirachi then i dont know what to tell ya
 

pizzq

Banned deucer.
i don't think you get it but,

shaming people for losing to jirachi is not an argument to keep it

sorry i'm not lucky 100% of my games?

jirachi is uncompetitive.

the difference between jirachi and moves like flash and items like bright powder, is that jirachi is a strategy that relies on luck. and is actually fucking viable.
 
i don't think you get it but,

shaming people for losing to jirachi is not an argument to keep it

sorry i'm not lucky 100% of my games?

jirachi is uncompetitive.

the difference between jirachi and moves like flash and items like bright powder, is that jirachi is a strategy that relies on luck. and is actually fucking viable.

I lost in the first round of the 1v1 tournament because I got haxed by Jirachi.

Unless you only run 100% accurate moves and your opponent only uses 100% accurate moves and your opponent and you never speed tie and none of your moves have secondary effects and you're in reality just playing rock paper scissors and not Pokemon, you won't ever get haxed. Otherwise, you're going to get haxed.
I think people have confused Jirachi haxing them for being more unlucky than other things haxing them. Any pokemon Scarf Porygon-Z has to hit Hyper Beam against to beat has a 10% chance of haxing you. Jirachi has a little better chance than that to flinch someone four times in a row (10% vs 12.96%).

A crit has a 6.25% chance of happening. A Jirachi has a 4.6656% chance of flinching you 6 times in a row. It's not exactly out of the ordinary to lose to a crit. Why is it so terrible that Jirachi somehow got lucky and got 6 flinches in a row?

There is a .977% chance of missing 5 Sleep Powders in a row. There's a 1.01% chance that Jirachi flinches you 9 (nine!) times in a row. I've seen both happen. The chance of getting burned by Fire Punch and then missing Play Rough is 1%. That happened as I was writing this. Why is Jirachi getting banned and not Sleep Powder? What if I wanted to check Venusaur, Kyurem-Black, and Tapu Koko? Jirachi would be a good option. Why take that away because Jirachi haxing you is so much worse than some other Pokemon haxing you? Maybe if you think Jirachi winning with the 60% chance of flinching from one Serene Grace Iron Head is dumb, maybe then we should ban it.

I think we should allow Jirachi a single flinch from Iron Head. It needs it to beat almost anything. If we allow it a single flinch, then how is it any more broken or hax-filled than any other mon? Or anything in 1v1? You're going to lose to hax in 1v1 - in pokemon, for that matter. Jirachi isn't worse than any other pokemon in terms of hax.

Jirachi doesn't even need hax to beat some pokemon. It's not like you need to burn Ferrothorn or Genesect with Fire Punch or freeze Landorus with Ice Punch.

Shouldn't we at least ban accuracy-reducing moves before Jirachi? Those are only for haxing. Jirachi is a fine mon that I would hate to see be banned.
 
the difference between jirachi and moves like flash and items like bright powder, is that jirachi is a strategy that relies on luck. and is actually fucking viable.
Sorry but can you explain to me why accuracy lowering moves and bright powder don't rely on luck?

As for Jirachi I think we should look at how many flinches it takes to beat common pokemon it wouldn't normally beat. If it can beat most of them in 1 or 2 then I think it should get banned. But if its like 5+ for most of the pokemon then it shouldnt because its not any different from moves with 90% acc or less at that point.
 

Elo Bandit

youtube.com/ EloBandit
is a Community Contributor
As for Jirachi I think we should look at how many flinches it takes to beat common pokemon it wouldn't normally beat. If it can beat most of them in 1 or 2 then I think it should get banned. But if its like 5+ for most of the pokemon then it shouldnt because its not any different from moves with 90% acc or less at that point.
Agreed. Let's actually run some calcs.

SET:

Haxxor (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Heart Stamp
- Fire Punch
- Trick

Jolly over Adamant to outpace other Jirachi and scarfed Porygon-Z which is otherwise a 2hko with Shadow Ball. Also I don't want to run every calc twice for a very similar result.

PROBABILITIES:

1 flinch: 60%
2 flinches: 36%
3: 21.6% (about Stone Edge miss chance)
4: 12.96% (a bit more likely than Hyper Beam miss)
5: 7.78% (close to standard Crit chance)
6: 4.67% (close to Sacred Fire or Air Slash miss chance)
7: 2.8% (too low to care)
8: 1.7% (a bit more likely than Hyper Beam missing twice)
9+: 1.2% or less (you're just the luckiest Jirachi player ever, or playing against them)

CALCULATIONS:
(BCS = Best Case Scenario for Jirachi)
Just running down the current Viability Rankings

Gyarados: Need 6-8 flinches (BCS 4.67% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 51-60 (15.4 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 100 Def Gyarados-Mega: 46-55 (11.7 - 13.9%) -- possible 8HKO

Charizard X: Need 3-5 flinches (BCS 21.6% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Heart Stamp vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 76-90 (25.5 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Heart Stamp vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 60-72 (16.7 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

Charizard Y: Need 2-3 flinches (BCS 36% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Heart Stamp vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 102-120 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Heart Stamp vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 100-118 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Kyurem-B: Need 1-2 flinches (though unless it's Groundium or Specs Earth Power you tank a hit regardless, making this calc pretty useless) BCS 60% win
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 218-260 (55.7 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 174-206 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Porygon-Z: Need 1-2 flinches (BCS 60% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Porygon-Z: 145-172 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 240 Def Porygon-Z: 109-130 (35 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Crustle: Need 1 flinch (BCS 60% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 112 HP / 40 Def Crustle: 174-206 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Magearna: Need 2 flinches (Specs HP Fire is a 2hko) BCS 36% win
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Magearna: 96-114 (26.4 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Pinsir: Need 2-3 flinches (BCS 36% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsir-Mega: 93-111 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Pinsir-Mega: 90-106 (27 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Slowbro: Need 13-15 flinches (<1% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 26-31 (6.6 - 7.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Tapu Koko: Need 1-2 flinches (BCS 60% win, more likely 36% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 126-148 (44.8 - 52.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO

Tapu Lele: Need 0 flinches (BCS 100% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 216-256 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Deoxys-Defense: Need 4-5 flinches (BCS 12.96% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 52+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 64-76 (21.1 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 57-67 (18.8 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO

Donphan: Need 3 flinches (BCS 21.6% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Donphan: 93-111 (24.2 - 28.9%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO

Dragonite: Need 3-4 flinches (BCS 21.6% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 57-67 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 114-135 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 57-67 (14.8 - 17.4%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dragonite: 114-135 (29.6 - 35%) -- 14.1% chance to 3HKO

Greninja: Need 2-3 flinches (BCS 36% win, more likely 21.6% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 84-99 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 11.1% chance to 3HKO

Magnezone: Need 4-6 flinches (BCS 12.96% win, more likely 7.78% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Heart Stamp vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 48-57 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 24-28 (6.9 - 8.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Meloetta: Need 1 flinch (Focus Miss is 2hko) BCS 60%
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 135-160 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mimikyu: Need 1 flinch to get through Disguise (60%) and 1 to get through max HP Mimikyu (36%) BCS 60% win
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 264-312 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Venusaur: Need 2-3 flinches, but you win regardless unless it's got Sleep Powder and HP Fire (an unpopular combo that relies on Venu's luck).
Not gonna give BCS because Jirachi should always win this.
252 Atk Jirachi Heart Stamp vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 102-122 (28 - 33.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO

Chansey: Need 4 flinches (12.96% win)
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 144-171 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Not calc'd: Mawile (Sucker Punch), Aegislash (King's Shield + NENightmare + Shadow Sneak)

Might add on more later, but I think this is enough to illustrate the point I'm trying to make with these numbers. I probably made some mistakes but the overall message should be pretty clear.


CONCLUSION:

Jirachi has a lot of matchups that are decided by 36% or 21.6% odds. This is more uncertainty than most pokemon in the tier (it's a little like relying on Focus Blast / making your opponent rely on Focus Miss), making Jirachi a bit of a wildcard that can get lucky more often than most other pokemon. It has a wider margin of error than anything else in the tier, but it does have very defined wins and losses that are very close to 100% either way (Loss vs Slowbro, Maw, Gyara, DeoD, Zone. Win vs PoryZ, Venu, Kyu, etc.) I think a lot of frustration for Jirachi comes from the pokemon that only need to be flinched once (i.e. Crustle) who feel like a 40% chance of victory is impossible to play around.

I'm going to hold off for now on making a judgement on whether or not it's banworthy. I'm only seeking to illustrate why people think it should be banned (lots of uncertain matchups) and why others think it should be kept (defined wins, checks, and counters to pick or avoid in team preview). Hopefully this helps people form their arguments more clearly.
 
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lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
I lost in the first round of the 1v1 tournament because I got haxed by Jirachi.

Unless you only run 100% accurate moves and your opponent only uses 100% accurate moves and your opponent and you never speed tie and none of your moves have secondary effects and you're in reality just playing rock paper scissors and not Pokemon, you won't ever get haxed. Otherwise, you're going to get haxed.
I think people have confused Jirachi haxing them for being more unlucky than other things haxing them. Any pokemon Scarf Porygon-Z has to hit Hyper Beam against to beat has a 10% chance of haxing you. Jirachi has a little better chance than that to flinch someone four times in a row (10% vs 12.96%).

A crit has a 6.25% chance of happening. A Jirachi has a 4.6656% chance of flinching you 6 times in a row. It's not exactly out of the ordinary to lose to a crit. Why is it so terrible that Jirachi somehow got lucky and got 6 flinches in a row?

There is a .977% chance of missing 5 Sleep Powders in a row. There's a 1.01% chance that Jirachi flinches you 9 (nine!) times in a row. I've seen both happen. The chance of getting burned by Fire Punch and then missing Play Rough is 1%. That happened as I was writing this. Why is Jirachi getting banned and not Sleep Powder? What if I wanted to check Venusaur, Kyurem-Black, and Tapu Koko? Jirachi would be a good option. Why take that away because Jirachi haxing you is so much worse than some other Pokemon haxing you? Maybe if you think Jirachi winning with the 60% chance of flinching from one Serene Grace Iron Head is dumb, maybe then we should ban it.

I think we should allow Jirachi a single flinch from Iron Head. It needs it to beat almost anything. If we allow it a single flinch, then how is it any more broken or hax-filled than any other mon? Or anything in 1v1? You're going to lose to hax in 1v1 - in pokemon, for that matter. Jirachi isn't worse than any other pokemon in terms of hax.

Jirachi doesn't even need hax to beat some pokemon. It's not like you need to burn Ferrothorn or Genesect with Fire Punch or freeze Landorus with Ice Punch.

Shouldn't we at least ban accuracy-reducing moves before Jirachi? Those are only for haxing. Jirachi is a fine mon that I would hate to see be banned.
In my opinion there is a significant difference from "normal hax" and Jirachi. My point is best illustrated I believe from OU's tiering policy.
IV.) Probability management is a part of the game.
A.) This means we have to accept that moves have secondary effects, that moves can miss, that moves can critical hit, and that managing all these potential probability points is a part of skill.
B.) This does NOT mean that we will accept every probability factor introduced to the game. Evasion, OHKO, and Moody all affected the outcome "too much" and we removed them.
C.) "Too much" is if a particular factor has the more skilled player at a disadvantage a considerable amount of the time against a less skilled player, regardless of what he does. In relation to the latter part, "too much" also refers to factors that nearly completely take a game out of the player's hands and turn the PRIMARY point of the game to wait for the RNG.
1.) OHKO moves are an example of the "too much" portion. With a 30% success rate, the other player will be put in an immediate disadvantage by the OHKO move user a considerable amount of the time no matter what he does.
2.) Moody and SwagPlay are examples of the "taking the game out of a player's hands". Both turn the PRIMARY point of the game waiting to see what the RNG spits out.
Jirachi is different from standard probability management. It completely takes the game out of the players hands. The whole game relies on what the RNG decides. This is not skillful play. This is not competitive.
 
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