1v1 - The Old Repository

Status
Not open for further replies.

ggopw

Banned deucer.
-Rank Entei? If so, where to rank? C at least maybe C+
-We all know Porygon2 needs a rise, it's far and above anything in D, but where should it go? C+
-Any D rank stuff that should rise/fall? Necrozma and p2 for sure(C+ for a start),i would suggest Quagsire to C- and thats about it nothing should drop in my oppinon
-Raise Zygarde-Complete? to A
-Raise Jumpluff? No
-Raise Mega Lucario? No
-Drop Pheromosa? Uhh thats a hard one possibly but only to C+
-Drop Blacephalon? Another hard one again only one step below
-Drop Relicanth? No i would even think about rising it

other stuff:

dont drop smeargle as it straight up beats teams with 3 slow mons which arent common but are a thing.
rise crustle and carracosta to B and drop buzzwole do C+.
drop zygarde dog as low as possible since i have never seen that thing even once on the ladder also i have no teams with it and as long as zygarde father is in the tier i dont see a reason to use the 10% version when the father is broken.
rise komm-o to C+ for a start as his z move set is really solid.
rise m camel and pyukumuku to C possibly even nihilego there.
i would consider dropping naganadel to B but since it's relatively new and good i would give it some time.

edit: type:null should for sure be rankerd i agree with dramps on that one

Also i have some other suggestions for currently unranked mons but i am to lazy to add them now might do that later tho.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pqs

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
ok time to respond to my own discussion points

-Rank Entei? i was the one who proposed to rank it in the first place, what do you think lol (c+ sounds good btw)
-Where to raise P2 to? It should go to b- honestly, it can beat a ton of mons and is surprisingly versatile and hard-hitting for the standards of most 1v1 walls
-Any D rank stuff to move? Raise necrozma and p2, unrank smeargle
-Raise Zygarde-C? Hell yeah, send that boy to a, a+ doesn't even sound that farfetch'd
-Raise Jumpluff? b+ is where this guy belongs, it's friccin good
-Raise Mega Lucario? sure, b- why not
-Drop Pheromosa? honestly, nah, is fine in b-
-Drop Blacephalon? surprisingly, im not sure. it's main flaw imo is that it's so pathetically frail and its movepool sucks, making it a lot less customizable than stuff like zard x, heatran and entei. Ghost STAB isn't all too helpful since it basically doesn't really hit anything of note, aegislash dies to fire stab (actually it just koes with shadow sneak lol) and gengar outspeeds and koes anything other than scarf, which can ko it with mind blown anyway. That said, i'm not fully certain if it's bad enough to drop to c-, it's not that awful, at least not yet. Keep it where it is right now and wait to see if things get better for it
-Drop Relicanth? Yes, this is basically a worse Carracosta. Sure, it has Yawn, but that's a very specific niche more in line with the stuff in c-

Finally, here's yet another UR nom

Type: Null: Unranked ---> D or C-
it has some cool assets over slowbro like a better defensive typing and more natural bulk with eviolite, knock off is rare in 1v1, iron defense + confide stall works pretty well with battle armor preventing crits, pretty cool mon, but competes a ton with slowbro, making it a kinda niche pick over it


-
 
  • Like
Reactions: pqs
I was gonna bring back previously mentioned noms but it was done recently so I'll add a few:

Pineco Unranked -> DNU
This is carry-over from previous discussion. Again, it's a Nosepass that can hit steel types with sand tomb.

I also wanna give this another shot:

Scizor-Mega D -> C- or C
With bulk stronger and more customizable than ZardX and a good attack tier, this is much better than what people give it credit for. It can beat sturdies and Metagross with counter, always wins vs. Mimikyu and is flexible enough to take on Lando, Snorlax, and Gyarados. If you need any other justification, check out the Scizor guide on page 9.

Slowbro A- -> B+
Loses to grass, taunt users, sleep users, and strong supereffective attackers. All of these are everywhere which is very problematic to Slowbro.

I agree on Porygon2, Camerupt, Gardevoir, Necrozma, Kommo-O, and a few others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pqs

Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I was gonna bring back previously mentioned noms but it was done recently so I'll add a few:

Pineco Unranked -> DNU
This is carry-over from previous discussion. Again, it's a Nosepass that can hit steel types with sand tomb.

I also wanna give this another shot:

Scizor-Mega D -> C- or C
With bulk stronger and more customizable than ZardX and a good attack tier, this is much better than what people give it credit for. It can beat sturdies and Metagross with counter, always wins vs. Mimikyu and is flexible enough to take on Lando, Snorlax, and Gyarados. If you need any other justification, check out the Scizor guide on page 9.

Slowbro A- -> B+
Loses to grass, taunt users, sleep users, and strong supereffective attackers. All of these are everywhere which is very problematic to Slowbro.

I agree on Porygon2, Camerupt, Gardevoir, Necrozma, Kommo-O, and a few others.
Sure, Pineco is absolutely unusable. Then again, so is [insert almost any LC here]. We don't put them on do not use because it's simply unnecessary. Pineco should just stay unranked. Mega Scizor would be fine at C-. Mega Slowbro should not drop. There is a single Grass type within the A range and it can not Mega Evolve to keep Oblivious to nullify Taunt. It's a solid check to the best three Pokemon in the meta, and just possesses outstanding physical bulk in general.
 
Nominating Aron D-> C-
Aron's rank doesn't reflect its utility in the current metagame. Looking at S and A ranks, Aron has a strong matchup against many metagame pokemon:
S rank:
Gyarados-Mega: Gyarados mega evolves and ohkos. Aron loses this matchup.
Kyurem-Black: Kyurem ohkos. Aron loses this matchup.
A rank:
A+:
Charizard-Mega-X: Unless Zard X runs wow, Aron wins this matchup.
Metagross-Mega: Unless Aron gets flinched, Aron wins this matchup.
Tapu Koko: Aron wins this matchup.
Tapu Lele: Aron wins this matchup.
A:
Aggron-Mega: Aggron can PP stall endeavor with rest. Aron loses this matchup.
Charizard-Mega-Y: Charizard needs an air slash flinch in order to beat Aron. Otherwise, Aron wins this matchup.
Dragonite: Aron wins this matchup.
Loppuny-Mega: Fake out breaks sturdy, so Aron loses this matchup.
Magearna: Aron wins this matchup.
Mawile-Mega: If Mawile attacks turn 1, it loses unless it gets hax. If Mawile SDs turn 1, it can either attack or SD again. If it attacks and Aron uses metal burst, aron wins. If the Aron user predicts the SD and attacks on that turn many consequitive times, it can also win. Going to call this one a 50-50 matchup.
Mimikyu: Mimikyu is immune to Endeavor, so Aron loses this matchup.
Pinsir-Mega: Aron wins this matchup.
A-:
Aegislash: Aron loses this matchup, since Aegislash is a ghost.
Landorus-T: Aron wins this matchup.
Magnezone: If 4 attacks, Aron wins this matchup. If it runs a status move like Mirror Coat, same scenario as Mawile. Going to call this as a win for Aron.
Porygon-Z: If Porygon-Z is Z-Conversion ghost or trick choice, it wins. Aron loses this matchup.
Snorlax: Snorlax wins if it runs yawn. Aron loses this matchup.
Slowbro-Mega: Can potentially win if it gets scald burn turn 1. Aron wins this matchup.
Venusaur-Mega: Uses leech seed. Aron loses this matchup.
Zygarde-Complete: Wins if it runs rest. Otherwise, Aron wins. Aron wins this matchup.
Tl;dr, Aron has a really solid win record against the top mons, losing to 9 out of the s and a rank pokemon and beating 12. Doesn't seem like a D rank mon to me.
 

pqs

Banned deucer.
Nominating Aron D-> C-
Aron's rank doesn't reflect its utility in the current metagame. Looking at S and A ranks, Aron has a strong matchup against many metagame pokemon:
S rank:
Gyarados-Mega: Gyarados mega evolves and ohkos. Aron loses this matchup.
Kyurem-Black: Kyurem ohkos. Aron loses this matchup.
A rank:
A+:
Charizard-Mega-X: Unless Zard X runs wow, Aron wins this matchup.
Metagross-Mega: Unless Aron gets flinched, Aron wins this matchup.
Tapu Koko: Aron wins this matchup.
Tapu Lele: Aron wins this matchup.
A:
Aggron-Mega: Aggron can PP stall endeavor with rest. Aron loses this matchup.
Charizard-Mega-Y: Charizard needs an air slash flinch in order to beat Aron. Otherwise, Aron wins this matchup.
Dragonite: Aron wins this matchup.
Loppuny-Mega: Fake out breaks sturdy, so Aron loses this matchup.
Magearna: Aron wins this matchup.
Mawile-Mega: If Mawile attacks turn 1, it loses unless it gets hax. If Mawile SDs turn 1, it can either attack or SD again. If it attacks and Aron uses metal burst, aron wins. If the Aron user predicts the SD and attacks on that turn many consequitive times, it can also win. Going to call this one a 50-50 matchup.
Mimikyu: Mimikyu is immune to Endeavor, so Aron loses this matchup.
Pinsir-Mega: Aron wins this matchup.
A-:
Aegislash: Aron loses this matchup, since Aegislash is a ghost.
Landorus-T: Aron wins this matchup.
Magnezone: If 4 attacks, Aron wins this matchup. If it runs a status move like Mirror Coat, same scenario as Mawile. Going to call this as a win for Aron.
Porygon-Z: If Porygon-Z is Z-Conversion ghost or trick choice, it wins. Aron loses this matchup.
Snorlax: Snorlax wins if it runs yawn. Aron loses this matchup.
Slowbro-Mega: Can potentially win if it gets scald burn turn 1. Aron wins this matchup.
Venusaur-Mega: Uses leech seed. Aron loses this matchup.
Zygarde-Complete: Wins if it runs rest. Otherwise, Aron wins. Aron wins this matchup.
Tl;dr, Aron has a really solid win record against the top mons, losing to 9 out of the s and a rank pokemon and beating 12. Doesn't seem like a D rank mon to me.
- zard x can also run sub
- koko runs taunt
- lele runs taunt rarely
- zard y can run willo, yet not as common as other moves
- metal burst aron does 100% to the opponent? can someone show in game evidence of this?
- pinsir runs sub
- landot runs sub
- pz can run trick!!1!
- slowbro runs rest commonly
- zygod runs sub

imo, aron should stay where it is, it is perfectly fine in d rank
 

dom

Banned deucer.
the d rank was literally made for aron.

- anyways i think both regular zygarde and zydog should be unranked. no reason to use them over zygod.
-camel aboma and pyuku should rise, better than the trash currently in c-, and they don't deserve to be c- pokemon, ESPECIALLY not camel.
- ninetales is too high. what's this thing do?
- keldeo should be higher. cool anti meta mon. Uselesscrab, back me up on this one.
- victini should be b-. c+ is a liiiiiitle bit low imo, banded v-create kicks ass.
- it saddens me to say this, but i think lando-i should drop. with zards randomly running flame charge now, its like main niche of nearly countering zard is gone.
- mega sciz is c- worthy
- deg should give ownership of the vr to mace.
- hot take: mimikyu is a+ and lele probs isn't
 
Last edited:

Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Aron for D (No Change): It's D rank by definition
Zygarde C- > Unranked: Probably an oversight by DEG when updating
- anyways i think both regular zygarde and zydog should be unranked. no reason to use them over zygod.
-camel aboma and pyuku should rise, better than the trash currently in c-, and they don't deserve to be c- pokemon, ESPECIALLY not camel.
Zydoge doesn't autolose to Kyurem. I'd be okay with D rank for it, but not unranked; it has a niche.
Absolutely agree with Mega Camerupt (C+) for a rise, and I'm neutral to the the other two.
- ninetales is too high. what's this thing do?
- keldeo should be higher. cool anti meta mon. Uselesscrab, back me up on this one.
- victini should be b-. c+ is a liiiiiitle bit low imo, banded v-create kicks ass.
Here's why Alolan Ninetales is good: (No Drop)
Ninetales-Alola @ Fairium Z
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Moonblast
- Charm
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Blizzard / Freeze Dry

It beats non-Scarf Kyub, Gyarados, sometimes Zard X, Dragonite, Mimikyu, Mega Pinsir, Lando-T, Zygarde-C, Mega Altaria, sometimes Blaziken, Donphan, Garchomp, Golem, Mega Heracross, Mega Sableye, Sawk, etc. You use Substitute to make your opponent take hail damage and then blow them up, pretty much. Z-Charm lets it beat Mega Gyarados and Mimikyu. It's honestly the best mon in C and I wouldn't be opposed to a rise for it.
Disagree with Keldeo and Victini, not much to say.
- it saddens me to say this, but i think lando-i should drop. with zards randomly running flame charge now, its like main niche of nearly countering zard is gone.
- mega sciz is c- worthy
Agree with Lando-I dropping, Flame Charge makes it really sad.
Disagree with Mega Scizor getting a rise (No Change). Everything learns Fire moves. You thought that you could beat my Kyub? my Magearna? my P-Z? my Magnezone? my Primarina? Specs HP Fire outta nowhere. You thought that you could beat my Gyarados? my Dragonite? my Mawile? my Malt? my Golem? my Garchomp? Miscellaneous Fire coverage 'gonna pick you up.
- deg should give ownership of the vr to mace.
- hot take: mimikyu is a+ and lele probs isn't
Yes, yes and yes.
 
Aron for D (No Change): It's D rank by definition
Zygarde C- > Unranked: Probably an oversight by DEG when updating

Zydoge doesn't autolose to Kyurem. I'd be okay with D rank for it, but not unranked; it has a niche.
Absolutely agree with Mega Camerupt (C+) for a rise, and I'm neutral to the the other two.

Here's why Alolan Ninetales is good: (No Drop)
Ninetales-Alola @ Fairium Z
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Moonblast
- Charm
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Blizzard / Freeze Dry

It beats non-Scarf Kyub, Gyarados, sometimes Zard X, Dragonite, Mimikyu, Mega Pinsir, Lando-T, Zygarde-C, Mega Altaria, sometimes Blaziken, Donphan, Garchomp, Golem, Mega Heracross, Mega Sableye, Sawk, etc. You use Substitute to make your opponent take hail damage and then blow them up, pretty much. Z-Charm lets it beat Mega Gyarados and Mimikyu. It's honestly the best mon in C and I wouldn't be opposed to a rise for it.
Disagree with Keldeo and Victini, not much to say.

Agree with Lando-I dropping, Flame Charge makes it really sad.
Disagree with Mega Scizor getting a rise (No Change). Everything learns Fire moves. You thought that you could beat my Kyub? my Magearna? my P-Z? my Magnezone? my Primarina? Specs HP Fire outta nowhere. You thought that you could beat my Gyarados? my Dragonite? my Mawile? my Malt? my Golem? my Garchomp? Miscellaneous Fire coverage 'gonna pick you up.

Yes, yes and yes.
I agree on most of these (especially Aron). It shouldn't be a surprise that I'm gonna defend Scizor.

Apple bug (Scizor-Mega) (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 200 HP / 156 Atk / 44 Def / 104 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Counter

This set tries to resist fire coverage as best as possible. Magearna, Magnezone, Primarina, and Dragonite are completely out of the question; they wall it anyways.

To kill this set with HP fire, a special attack of at least 462 is needed. Porygon-Z and Kyurem both can't do this without specs. When does Kyurem run specs? Even if it does there is much better spattacking dragons that can fill its role (Naganadel!). Porygon will opt for a scarf due to its average speed tier or even normalium z/nasty plot.

Golem actually LOSES to this set with fire punch, because the set tanks it out and kills it back with counter. Mawile can always win with fire fang, but loses without; same with Garchomp. This also applies to Gyarados, but with Taunt.

Convieniently enough, these and fire types are the only real threats. Comparatively to other C-'s, they only beat a certain group of the meta, but the set can take on the physical meta quite well. Another thing is the winning fire coverage can be uncommon or extraordinarily rare; I haven't seen specs hp fire kyurem in 3 months and it only appeared once low ladder. Using this thing feels just as risky/not risky as a C- mon and I could easily see it fit on that list.
 

Sroken

Banned deucer.
This will be a relatively short post but it's something I feel like saying. When I look at the S rank Pokemon, Kyurem black is on another level even compared to its S rank counter part mega Gyarados, and I think that either Gyarados mega should drop or Kyurem black should be moved to its own rank, S+. I don't know if this was ever done in 1v1 last gen with other Pokemon but similar things I have seen with VR's having an S+ rank or something similar, and I think Kyurem black is on another level in terms of how good it is compared to other Pokemon in the metagame (for reasons which I have seen mentioned so so much there's no point rephrasing but to paraphrase instead: immense versatility and being incredibly good at a wide range of things) so much so that comparing it to even mega Gyarados in my opinion is not a good thing to do, since it's just that good.

tldr; i reccomend a separate rank for Kyurem-Black, S+, or alternatively dropping Gyarados-Mega to A+
 
Last edited:

DEG

The night belongs to you
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
VR Updated
Code:
Mega Aggron A > B+
Mimikyu A > A+
Mega Altaria B+ > B
Mega Sceptile/Sceptile C- > D
Necrozma D > B
Zygarde-10% B- > D
Mega Pinsir A > A-
Jumpluff B > B+
Mega Swampert B > B-
Pheromosa B- > C+
Meloetta B+ > B
Mega Camerupt C- > C+
Mega Garchomp Unranked > C
Porygon2 D > C
Mega Gardevoir B > B+
Entei Unranked > C
Type: Null Unranked > D
Landorus-I C+ > C
Mega Scizor D > C-
 
I'd like to nominate moving Type Null to C and moving Porygon2 to C-
Reason:
Type Null mostly outclasses Porygon2 due to it's natural bulk, which is improved by Eviolite. They have the same typing with Type Null having an additional niche in Iron Defense. And while yes, Porygon2 may be more versatile in movepool and abilities, Type Null does better the only thing Porygon2 is viably capable of doing:stall.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Ayo! Nice update! Suffice to say, this new VR definitely does a better job of reflecting the metagame.

Now here's an idea for a discussion topic. I've noticed that in this update in particular, the C rank has become massive, and kinda over-crowded. Any chance we could raise/drop some stuff in there to make it less bloated?

imo, raise Entei and Porygon2, drop Stakataka
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Sorry for the double post, but I gotta respond to this.

I'd like to nominate moving Type Null to C and moving Porygon2 to C-
Reason:
Type Null mostly outclasses Porygon2 due to it's natural bulk, which is improved by Eviolite. They have the same typing with Type Null having an additional niche in Iron Defense. And while yes, Porygon2 may be more versatile in movepool and abilities, Type Null does better the only thing Porygon2 is viably capable of doing:stall.
This nomination is stupid because Type: Null and Porygon2, aside from being Normal types that rely on Eviolite for their bulk, are basically incomparable in terms of the roles they perform. Porygon2 is a tank that sponges up hits and retaliates with a very decent 105 Special Attack and other moves and support choices. Type: Null is a PP staller. The reason it is currently in D is because it faces immense competition from Mega Slowbro, who is a better choice in many ways. I could totally see it rising, but not higher than C- imo.
 

ggopw

Banned deucer.
Finally an update, now vrs look much cleaner and more importantly correct

About the c rank > I dont think something should rise/drop with the reasoning being "there are a lot of pokemon with the exact same rank."
However i do agree with yd on porygon2, that mons walls good amount of stuff and it doesnt have to be completely passive at all with its great movepool and abilities. I would also like to see kommo-o a tier above but kommo-o just straight up loses to faster dragons and fairy type pokemon and unfortunately these pokemon are so common in the higher ranks its insane but at least it can beat mega gyara and other than that it is really good against almost everything if we exclude mons with those typings.

now i would like to see a discussion around victini (it should get a raise imo) and terrakion mainly bc i never see that thing and its sitting at b-

the mon that should definitely drop is Heracross-Mega as other people have pointed that out and i agree on them so no need to repeat stuff.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Finally an update, now vrs look much cleaner and more importantly correct

About the c rank > I dont think something should rise/drop with the reasoning being "there are a lot of pokemon with the exact same rank."
However i do agree with yd on porygon2, that mons walls good amount of stuff and it doesnt have to be completely passive at all with its great movepool and abilities. I would also like to see kommo-o a tier above but kommo-o just straight up loses to faster dragons and fairy type pokemon and unfortunately these pokemon are so common in the higher ranks its insane but at least it can beat mega gyara and other than that it is really good against almost everything if we exclude mons with those typings.

now i would like to see a discussion around victini (it should get a raise imo) and terrakion mainly bc i never see that thing and its sitting at b-

the mon that should definitely drop is Heracross-Mega as other people have pointed that out and i agree on them so no need to repeat stuff.
Porygon2: B-, this mon is super good, don't sleep on it, i learned that the hard way, and unlike other defensive mons like slowbro, null and chansey, it can run a shitton of sets, making a great glue mon

Victini: B-, it's kinda like a Fire type PZ in that you just slap on a Choice Scarf and wreck shit with a ludicrous STAB, it can run some other sets too, like this one tr firium set i made which can beat aegislash and pz

Kommo-o: C+, definitely would be B worthy if it weren't for the omnipresence of fairies and better dragons as ggwp said, but it does well against everything else
 

Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Here's some of my thoughts:

Subdividing the S rank: Let's do it! Imo Kyub should be S+, Gyara should be S, and MMeta should be S-. I would also be okay with Mimikyu and/or Koko being S-.

Porygon2/Type: Null: I think Null is fine where it is because it's too easily shut down by Taunt. P2 deserves C+, though. The reason I don't want it to go any higher than that, though, it's because it doesn't really have any way of dealing with others stallmons like Slowbro and Venusaur.

Kommo-o: Not to much to say from me, but the Fairy and Dragon weaknesses makes me hesitant to rise it all. No change.

Victini: I think that Victini has gotten worse since USM. Blacephalon overshadows it with the niche of Fire nuke with an item, now. Maybe it was B- before, but not anymore in my book. Counterproposal: Blacephalon for C+.

Mega Heracross: Yeah, let's do it to B.

Terrakion: As long as Charizard and Kyub are in the tier, this should never drop. Both of those Pokemon have sets that have radically different checks and counters, and Terrakion takes the guessing games out of these otherwise adverse situations.

Stakataka and Entei: No opinion
 

ayedan

5 am in Toronto
Latios B- -----> C+

Latios is in B- oddly enough. The mon only has a 0.56616 usage rate in 1v1; currently #104 in usage. That number is pretty low for a mon that is ranked in the middle of the viability ranks and imo ranked higher than it should be. Latios has a niche as a faster scarf than kyu b and killing the behemoth but, thats all I can think of. When you're scarf, you don't hit hard enough. When you're a z-move user, you don't outspeed important mons LIKE kyu b, tapu lele, m-gengar, naganadel, and scarf chomp. If u are going to pick a powerful dragon to abuse, pick kyu-b, garchomp, or even naganadel. This is why I nominate Latios for C+.

(Sorry for double-post.)
 

Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Latios B- -----> C+

Latios is in B- oddly enough. The mon only has a 0.56616 usage rate in 1v1; currently #104 in usage. That number is pretty low for a mon that is ranked in the middle of the viability ranks and imo ranked higher than it should be. Latios has a niche as a faster scarf than kyu b and killing the behemoth but, thats all I can think of. When you're scarf, you don't hit hard enough. When you're a z-move user, you don't outspeed important mons LIKE kyu b, tapu lele, m-gengar, naganadel, and scarf chomp. If u are going to pick a powerful dragon to abuse, pick kyu-b, garchomp, or even naganadel. This is why I nominate Latios for C+.

(Sorry for double-post.)
Disagree. Z-Heal Block Latios is an excellent stallbreaker, and it's role can hardly be compared to that of Kyub or Garchomp's. Also, usage does not equal viability, and in contrast, low usage can actually make a Pokemon more viable because it is less prepared for. Also, as a side note, when people say stuff like "to make this not a one-liner" and "sorry for double post," it upsets me a little. Making a one-liner into a two-liner doesn't make your post better and apologizing for the double post is just eh. Anyways, back to Latios. It also has a really cool speed tier which lets it pick up lots of mons like the Charizards and Pinsir. As for Scarf sets, it's weak, sure, but I really don't see that as too much of a downside considering it doesn't get one-shotted by most mons it wouldn't outright lose to anyways. Latios also has a super cool defensive typing+Levitate which is nice for mons like Donphan and Blaziken.
 

pqs

Banned deucer.
Snorlax A- ---> A/A+

ok so ik im ranking this a lil too high but it deserves a raise, yawn abuses sleep which is good, 160 hp and 110 spdef is good too, and +6 attack is great.
Snorlax @ Normalium Z
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Yawn
- Protect
- Double-Edge
- Belly Drum

Genesect B+ ---> A-

genesect is a great mon with rlly good coverage able to sport moves as bug buzz, flash cannon, flamethrower, thunderbolt, ice beam, gear grind, iron head, x-scizor, it stands out vs the rest of the pokemon on b+.

gonna promo some mons i made now

Escavalier @ Steelium Z
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 32 Def / 96 SpD
Impish Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Iron Defense

we built this mon inbaleblaze's groupchat that lasted for 8 hours i'd like to put it somewhere in c/b it's actually p darn good
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 113-134 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
128 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 492-582 (125.8 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

win

0 Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 145-171 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Kyurem-Black: 368-434 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

win

+3 128 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 373-440 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

just iron defense + sd and win


252 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier in Electric Terrain: 333-393 (96.8 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

we have a __chance__

252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Escavalier in Electric Terrain: 321-378 (93.3 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

we have a __chance__


Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 96 SpA / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Reflect
- Foul Play
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

PLEASE RANK THIS MON


bye pqs


e: was looking at oras vr and p2 was a- rank at one point
 
Last edited:

Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
Snorlax A- ---> A/A+

ok so ik im ranking this a lil too high but it deserves a raise, yawn abuses sleep which is good, 160 hp and 110 spdef is good too, and +6 attack is great.
Snorlax @ Normalium Z
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Yawn
- Protect
- Double-Edge
- Belly Drum

Genesect B+ ---> A-

genesect is a great mon with rlly good coverage able to sport moves as bug buzz, flash cannon, flamethrower, thunderbolt, ice beam, gear grind, iron head, x-scizor, it stands out vs the rest of the pokemon on b+.

gonna promo some mons i made now

Escavalier @ Steelium Z
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 32 Def / 96 SpD
Impish Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Iron Defense

we built this mon in Baleblaze 's groupchat that lasted for 8 hours i'd like to put it somewhere in c/b it's actually p darn good
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 113-134 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
128 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 492-582 (125.8 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

win

0 Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 145-171 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Kyurem-Black: 368-434 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

win

+3 128 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 373-440 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

just iron defense + sd and win


252 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier in Electric Terrain: 333-393 (96.8 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

we have a __chance__

252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Escavalier in Electric Terrain: 321-378 (93.3 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

we have a __chance__


Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 96 SpA / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Reflect
- Foul Play
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

PLEASE RANK THIS MON


bye pqs


e: was looking at oras vr and p2 was a- rank at one point
A set or Pokémon can be one of the best things you've ever seen, and still not deserve to be ranked anywhere above D

Escavalier is an excellent example. Other than the fact that I've been unable to beat a reasonable portion of the metagame with it (I kinda had to for secret santa) it's also outclassed in every role it could possibly fit in.

Allow me to go over the things your set claims to beat.

Kyurem-Black: I won't argue with this because it clearly beats it and I don't want to spread dissatisfaction by saying things like "Jirachi does this better"

Gyarados: 76+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. +2 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 63-75 (18.3 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO
76+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. +2 252 HP / 32+ Def Escavalier: 52-63 (15.1 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO

After one iron defense, gyarados can get a 6HKO.

2/6 happen before the iron defense (because def isn't doubled yet)
2/6 happen while you're setting up swords dances
1/6 happens before you attack (more on that later)

You could state the last 1/6 is a roll. But you mega to make that guaranteed KO

That means a reasonably invested gyarados can just KO you.
Also in those 5 waterfalls, gyarados has a 66.3% chance to flinch at least one, as well as a 19.1% chance to crit.

even if you factor in that these plays might not be optimal for either side, it will always be an unreliable matchup, not even mentioning taunt gyarados yet

oh also, I said "more on that later"

+3 128 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Gyarados-Mega: 260-306 (65.9 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 128 Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Gyarados: 340-401 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

That doesn't KO. so you get the 6th hit guaranteed with Gyarados.


in conclusion
Out of the 3 things Escavalier is said to beat, it loses to Tapu Koko (you lose to substitute, reflect and taunt with 50/50s, and then lose to the roll), it also loses to Gyarados as I explained.

So all Escavalier is brought down to at this point, is a steel type that happens to beat an ice type with a z-move.

I was joking about doing this after the secret santa teambuilding, but I might as well say it now: Nominating Escavalier for do not use because it really brings nothing to your team that other Pokémon can't. Just use Genesect, Scizor or even Durant for the same result but better.
 

Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
A few nominations for some of my old school heat mons that I think are still pretty damn good:

Suicune for C-
Suicune @ Waterium Z
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 20 Def / 164 SpA / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Mirror Coat

What it beats: Mega Charizard (form-based 50/50), Curse Mimikyu, Dragonite, Magearna, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, Landorus-T, Porygon-Z, Zygarde, Mega Aggron, Blaziken, Donphan, Garchomp, Scarf Genesect, Golem, Greninja, Naganadel, Primarina, Tapu Fini
Why it's not higher: Suicune is actually pretty solid if you look at all of those mons it beats. The reason why I'm nominating it for as low as C-, though, is because it simply loses to Mega Gyarados, Non-Specs Kyurem-B, Tapu Koko, and most Tapu Lele.

Haxorus for D
Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail

Scarf and Groundium are some other possibilities

What it beats: Non-Scarf Kyurem-B, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Dragonite, Magnezone, Non-Scarf Porygon-Z, Snorlax, Mega Venusaur, Zygarde, Golem
Why it's not higher: Kyurem-B exists lol
Why it's not lower: Haxorus is 2 base Speed faster than Kyurem, allowing it to beat Mimikyu and Kyub. It also learns Superpower and Earthquake, which allow it to beat Snorlax and Tapu Koko, who would typically beat Choice Band Kyub.

Cloyster for D
Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 68 HP / 192 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Barrier

What it beats: Non-Taunt Mega Gyarados, some Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard X, Mimikyu, Dragonite, Landorus-T, Mega Pinsir, Zygarde, Donphan, Garchomp, Golem, Jumpluff
Why it's not higher: Cloyster loses to just about every Steel or Water type in existence minus Gyarados and Excadrill and also has base 45 Special Defense with base 50 HP.

Deoxys-S for C
Deoxys-Speed @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 176 HP / 120 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psychic
- Recover

Other possibilities include PP stall and Specs

What it beats: Most Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard X (prediction reliant), Tapu Koko, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Lopunny, Specs Magearna, non-SD Mega Mawile, Landorus-T, non-Metal Sound Magnezone, Mega Pinsir, Porygon-Z, Mega Venusaur, Blaziken, Donphan, Garchomp, Golem, Mega Heracross, Naganadel, Primarina, non-CM Tapu Fini
Why it's not lower: Why was this ever unranked? It's honest to god a really solid mon - just take a look at the above list...
Why it's not higher: That being said, many of the things it supposed to check have certain sets that can work around it like Kyurem-B using a Choice item or Magnezone running Metal Sound.
 
A few nominations for some of my old school heat mons that I think are still pretty damn good:

Suicune for C-
Suicune @ Waterium Z
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 20 Def / 164 SpA / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Mirror Coat

What it beats: Mega Charizard (form-based 50/50), Curse Mimikyu, Dragonite, Magearna, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, Landorus-T, Porygon-Z, Zygarde, Mega Aggron, Blaziken, Donphan, Garchomp, Scarf Genesect, Golem, Greninja, Naganadel, Primarina, Tapu Fini
Why it's not higher: Suicune is actually pretty solid if you look at all of those mons it beats. The reason why I'm nominating it for as low as C-, though, is because it simply loses to Mega Gyarados, Non-Specs Kyurem-B, Tapu Koko, and most Tapu Lele.

Haxorus for D
Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail

Scarf and Groundium are some other possibilities

What it beats: Non-Scarf Kyurem-B, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Dragonite, Magnezone, Non-Scarf Porygon-Z, Snorlax, Mega Venusaur, Zygarde, Golem
Why it's not higher: Kyurem-B exists lol
Why it's not lower: Haxorus is 2 base Speed faster than Kyurem, allowing it to beat Mimikyu and Kyub. It also learns Superpower and Earthquake, which allow it to beat Snorlax and Tapu Koko, who would typically beat Choice Band Kyub.

Cloyster for D
Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 68 HP / 192 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Barrier

What it beats: Non-Taunt Mega Gyarados, some Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard X, Mimikyu, Dragonite, Landorus-T, Mega Pinsir, Zygarde, Donphan, Garchomp, Golem, Jumpluff
Why it's not higher: Cloyster loses to just about every Steel or Water type in existence minus Gyarados and Excadrill and also has base 45 Special Defense with base 50 HP.

Deoxys-S for C
Deoxys-Speed @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 176 HP / 120 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psychic
- Recover

Other possibilities include PP stall and Specs

What it beats: Most Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard X (prediction reliant), Tapu Koko, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Lopunny, Specs Magearna, non-SD Mega Mawile, Landorus-T, non-Metal Sound Magnezone, Mega Pinsir, Porygon-Z, Mega Venusaur, Blaziken, Donphan, Garchomp, Golem, Mega Heracross, Naganadel, Primarina, non-CM Tapu Fini
Why it's not lower: Why was this ever unranked? It's honest to god a really solid mon - just take a look at the above list...
Why it's not higher: That being said, many of the things it supposed to check have certain sets that can work around it like Kyurem-B using a Choice item or Magnezone running Metal Sound.
Really nice list, im surprised that cloyster isnt even on the vr yet.

Also im starting to wonder if lando-t should drop a little, but since I'm in a rush this can wait a little
 
Last edited:

pqs

Banned deucer.
Really nice list, im surprised that cloyster isnt even on the vr yet.

Also im starting to wonder if lando-t should drop a little, but since I'm in a rush this can wait a little
Landorus-Therian is perfectly fine where it is in A- rank, able to beat many Pokemon such as Gyarados-Mega, Tapu Koko, and Mimikyu, as well as many others.


inb4 bUT gYARaDOs beATs LANdoT BECauSe WatER vS GRouND
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top