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2013 Smogon Fantasy Hockey

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by Carl, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    The other thread was old and had a lot of BS in it. Here's this year's participants:

    Members:
    Jackal - Bandwagon Blackhawks (Figurehead Commish)
    Aldaron - Aldaron
    BlueCookies - Baby Got Backstrom
    Justin8649 - Did Jussi That
    wer - BUFFALO WINGERS
    Captain Kishimoto - The Fail For Nail
    Psycho - Psycho's SUCKers
    Synre - The Zanarkand Abes (Real Commish)
    gr33n - Sean Waivery
    Vincent - Équipe Québec
    pookar - Gouki's Gays
    Carl - The Red Wingulls

    Welcome to new owners pookar and BlueCookies. Same rules as last year for scoring, roster format and roster moves. The importance of divisions has been removed and they're now just cosmetic. We kept 6 players of our choosing, any position, from last season to carry over into this season.

    Talking points now that this year's auction draft is behind us (and to make this a legit thread):

    1) Is 6 keepers too much or too little? Should we increase, decrease or stay the same going forward for next season?
    2) Will we have a free for all next year on keepers again or are we limiting positions to 1 per with a wild card (or however many keepers we're doing)?
    3) What are the thoughts for next year's draft format? Was there too little disparity between top finishers and bottom six for auction? Do we want a formal snake draft instead?

    Yes, I realize this season hasn't officially started and we have time for next year but people's roster moves now may depend on some of these details so better to get everyone on the same page and sort it sooner rather than later.


    My opinion on the above: I think 6 is fine and I think we should enforce position restrictions. I was fine with auction this year and actually didn't use about 1/3 of my funds so I think we can increase the disadvantage given to top finishers if we go auction in the future.
  2. CaptainKishimoto

    CaptainKishimoto

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    Couldn't you just have edited the OP? I liked our old thread =[

    As it stands right now, we will have 6 keepers with position limitations (at least that's what was decided last season, don't know if things have changed). I'm perfectly fine with how everything is at the moment, the only thing is that I feel that the consolation people probably needed more funds than I thought (like maybe a 20-25 difference from consolation to 1st this time).
  3. Justin8649

    Justin8649
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    -Up to 8 keepers total
    -You get x dollars for every position available. If you only keep 7 players, you end up with more money than somebody that keeps 8.

    Also, I find it laughable that you think consolation people need MORE money. Carl and I both had less money and ended up with waaaay too much money at the end of the draft. I had $50 too much and he had $70 too much.
  4. Aldaron

    Aldaron All da lil birdies chirpin
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    I also ended up left with 19 dollars...and didn't wer end up having like 50+ left over?

    Seems like there was no shortage to me...pookar's weirdo picks notwithstanding.
  5. SkylarGreen

    SkylarGreen formerly gr33n

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    1) Is 6 keepers too much or too little? Should we increase, decrease or stay the same going forward for next season? - I would like to increase this to 8


    2) Will we have a free for all next year on keepers again or are we limiting positions to 1 per with a wild card (or however many keepers we're doing)?
    either 5 pos + 3 wildcards or no positional requirement would be fine


    3) What are the thoughts for next year's draft format? Was there too little disparity between top finishers and bottom six for auction? Do we want a formal snake draft instead? If we snake, we could also trade draft picks, which might be a fun idea. However I'm not sure if commish can do this in the yahoo draft settings. Auction is fine aswell.

  6. BlueCookies

    BlueCookies April Fools 2009 Participant
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    1) Is 6 keepers too much or too little? Should we increase, decrease or stay the same going forward for next season?

    Even though this would be really bad for my team, I think that 8 keepers is better.

    2) Will we have a free for all next year on keepers again or are we limiting positions to 1 per with a wild card (or however many keepers we're doing)?

    If it's 8 keepers I think one keeper for each position and 3 wildcards is good. If it's 6 keepers I would rather have them all be wildcards.

    3) What are the thoughts for next year's draft format? Was there too little disparity between top finishers and bottom six for auction? Do we want a formal snake draft instead?

    honestly no preference, either is fine for me.
  7. Chill Murray

    Chill Murray get well soon jacoby..

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    1. I'd rather stay with 6 keepers.

    2. I'd prefer for there to be positional requirements (1 for each position and then X wildcards).

    3. I think now that the league is somewhat settled a snake draft would be in our best interest. One of the advantages of this format would be the possibility of trading for draft picks, which iirc Yahoo now allows in keeper leagues.

    Also, as far as draft money went, I feel as though the disparity probably should have been a little bigger between the positions. It seemed as though the people who finished higher last year were able to make the moves they wanted to regardless of how much money they started out with. I think lowering the amount of money everyone had to begin would have been a good idea anyway. I had $42 left for my last draft pick, for example, and a lot of people had money to spare by the end of the draft as well.

    Also also, new division names please.
  8. Vineon

    Vineon Fleurdelysé
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    I don't get it. That would change absolutely nothing.

    As for snake drafts and especially trading draft picks, I'm much against that idea. I don't enjoy the thought of trading players for some you get in an ulterior season. It allows bottom teams to trade without it being a gamble, which imo defeats the purpose of having trades in fantasy.
  9. pookar

    pookar Banned deucer.

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    Aldragon i finished the draft with 55 dollars pocketed. One of my reasons (excuses, if you may) is that i wasnt sure how expensive the good players would really go and i didnt want to be left with 10 dollars for 3-4 guys . Obviously i overpaid for subban and still had 55 left so im kicking myself because i couldve had any other player in the entire draft if i wanted to, but thats hindsight.
  10. Synre

    Synre
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    I'm relatively indifferent on number of keepers, but I'd like to see positional requirements added regardless of us doing 6 or 8(assuming we mostly stick to that since they seem to be the most feasible/popular options). I worry about about position scarcity when people get too many wild cards; I think ideally we'd do 8 keepers+1 at each position+no more than 2 at any position.

    As far as the auction thing we could probably stretch out the difference in starting budgets a little bit more, but I didn't think the gap was super relevant because many of us consolation folk were proving why we were consolation folk and not bullying the money advantage correctly rather than because the advantage was too small. The top teams from last year made so many bids that should have been contested to at least inflate price and it just wasn't happening... sure felt like it wasn't that easy for me last year coming off a win. I thought the settings this season were fine and people like Carl and Justin and Vineon just executed better than people who finished on the other end of the bracket.








    Also in other news I would definitely suggest the Yahoo! money leagues to those of you who are in states(and possibly provinces? forget if Canada can play) were gambling is allowed(thanks Native Americans who steal our money at casinos) next year, I know I've talked to most of you about it a bit, but the level of competition really isn't as high as I'd expect for a league where people have money on the line. It's a little better than publics but it's much closer to a standard public league than a winner's league, which is more where I was expecting it to be... lot of unknowledgeable people with a lot of expendable income, I guess. Stewart and Cammalleri have both been dropped in my league to give an example, I waived the former and am figuring out how I can claim the latter. I'm in a really bizarre situation right now where I'm just ending up with too much winger talent and am going to need to try to trade them for C/D/G. I think I'm gonna try and target a better C/LW (which is really just Sharp, Zetterberg, or Marleau) which should give me some idea of what the trading scene is like in these leagues to report at least, and then I really am just gonna have to work on D and G. Current roster fwiw though I posted it in the other thread post draft:

    LW, RW: Nash
    C, RW: Skinner
    C, LW: Prospal
    C: Crosby(IR) MKoivu
    LW: Ovechkin Elias JVR
    RW: Selanne Stewart Alfredsson
    D: Burns Pronger Suter Carlson
    G Niemi Ward

    Not sure if I can feasible snag one of those C/LWs without coughing up Nash, Skinner, Crosby, or Ovechkin, but that'll probably be the longer term goal. Can't imagine forwards improving much from there which is weird to be saying the first week of October, lot of time to tinker with the defense and goalies.
  11. SkylarGreen

    SkylarGreen formerly gr33n

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    Yeah inflated where I could, but was kinda tired and couldnt think properly (how the hell did I pay so much for Mason lol ).

    Don't think I did that horrible, I just have to hope Andy continues how he left off last year at Ottawa and that Mason's 3rd sophomore season will finally end the slump.
  12. Aldaron

    Aldaron All da lil birdies chirpin
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    I'd be fine with making it UP to 8 keepers with no more than 2 at any one position, dual eligibility players aside (you "declare" which position you want that dual eligible player to take, and the other eligible position isn't counted against your 2 max for that position).
  13. Vineon

    Vineon Fleurdelysé
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    1 hit for 9 guys playing today, gr33n. Looks to be one stat you'll have to consider investing in.

    In fact, all stats considered, only Kessel showed up. I really wish that first week ended tomorrow..
  14. CaptainKishimoto

    CaptainKishimoto

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    For research purposes, I think for now we should list 8 keepers (with no pos. having more than 2 players) so we can better understand who will still be available. I think that is the biggest issue in terms of increasing the amount of keepers, so ya.
  15. SkylarGreen

    SkylarGreen formerly gr33n

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    It's basicly the stat I indeed didn't invest in. Hoping my scoring would be enough to hold through.

    But however, since I like your french team, I will make sure my team keeps sucking this hard so you might walk away with the 9-0 ;)
  16. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    just curious, who vetoed the trade?
  17. Vineon

    Vineon Fleurdelysé
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    I've always found veto'ing trades to be completely gay.

    I'd only do it if someone was purposely trying to ruin his own team. Like perhaps if Paul would!
  18. Synre

    Synre
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    I'm just going to remove the league veto after this season, if people think it's collusion they can come to me and otherwise it shouldn't be used. And frankly, I'm connected well enough to be pretty sure when it is and isn't.

    It wasn't this time, and the people who vetoed are idiots. Yahoo! gives people the ability to veto by default so leagues can self police to promote fairness, not so people can veto trades they don't happen to like. This was a pretty reasonable trade where one side, who wanted to contend now, won the short term and the otherr, who can't contend now, and who's owner was nice enough to handle a team that couldn't, wins long-term. Not really sure what fantastic logic was used to veto this one but this is pretty bad.




    I'm strongly considering just taking veto power away immediately. I hate to powertrip but this is not what the veto button is there for.
  19. BlueCookies

    BlueCookies April Fools 2009 Participant
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    Since the trade was vetoed, I'll give my logic behind the trade and hopefully those of you who vetoed it can explain your reasoning behind the veto.

    The team I aquired was basically the 6 keepers + only waiver wire additions. After looking at my roster and comparing it to others, I saw my team really had no shot at winning or even making it to the playoffs. I knew to have a shot at winning in the future, I needed to go through a quick rebuild. Thats how this trade came about.

    First off the goalie swap. Neither Backstrom nor Anderson are goalies I would want on my team. Obviously Anderson is awful and on an awful team, while Backstrom has the history of some very solid seasons. He is also off to a pretty decent start, so I'm clearly losing in the goalie swap, but since neither goalie is really that good, I don't mind this at all.

    Thornton imo is a pretty overrated fantasy player. He only contributes to 2 cats (assists and PPP), while contributing absolutely nothing to shots and +/-, and barely contributing to goals and hits. Duchene of course is no sure thing, but the Ave's really look like they're on the right track after aquiring Johnson last year and Varlamov and Landeskog this offseason. Duchene is still a young kid and I definitely feel like he's got a good shot at 30 g 80 pt seasons in the future. They are already somewhat close to each other in value in 1 year leagues, and I think maybe as soon as next year, Duchene will be the better fantasy player.

    Now for trading Kovy. As a devils fan it was really tough to let him go, as he's an elite player on my favorite team, but since I am in a slight rebuild and had a chance to get back Hall I had to take it. I think he has a good chance of becoming as good a fantasy player as Kovalchuk, if not better pretty quickly.

    I also got Stewart, who is by no means just a throw in. He contributes a lot to every cat, and St. Louis looks to be trending upwards which should help too. Since I saw we are moving to 8 keepers and I only had 6 decent ones(a few of which really shouldn't be keepers on a good team) getting Stewart helped convince me to make the trade.

    Obviously gr33n gets the much better deal for this year, but since this is a keeper league I feel the value is much much closer. The trade could even end up in my favor by the next 2 years depending on how Hall/Duchene continue to progress. Of course I am giving up a lot of proven talent for 2 "unknowns", but I am confident in both of them becoming very good fantasy players. With the makeup of my team right now, this is a risk I think is worth taking.
  20. pookar

    pookar Banned deucer.

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    im going to absently "take responsibility" for 1 veto vote, but i am still unsure whether i actually pressed the veto button or just pondered it for a while. Still, unless the veto settings are different, 7 (6 maybe?) people needed to veto it, obv BC/carl/synre didnt so that leaves 2 other guys who didnt lol
  21. SkylarGreen

    SkylarGreen formerly gr33n

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    @pookar: The settings seemed to be that only 4 people needed to vote, we had Synre check this while on irc. And the only options he has is to either use vote (4 only needed) or commissioner.

    @this trade:

    BC inquired with me for Duchene in the start of the negotiating process. As you all know I love the Avalanche and I was in the same situation as he was with Kovalchuk, hard to let one of your favourite players go.

    My basic aim was for improving my goaltending, now is Backstrom only a slight improvement, but to get him I would have had to let Duchene go.

    But I didn't want to move him unless I got Kovalchuk back aswell and like this we got the ball rolling. I do agree with the logic that I might win this term on short deal, which is something my team seemed to need after finishing 9th or 10th last year (my worst smogon fantasy year).

    I really love Duchene and Hall and it was hard for me to let them go. I think I remember Vineon's initial reaction in #smogon to be "wow, gr33n is letting Hall and Duchene go".

    Thornton was basicly needed for me to accept this trade, to get atleast one keeper back aswell, since the three of Duchene/Hall/Stewart were and would have been keepers for me next year.

    Otherwise only Kovalchuk would be the "sure thing" as keeper, so Thornton had to join him, despite only being usefull in a few categories. I never had him in any league so curious to see how that will work out.

    We will be continuing this trade most likely, so we agreed on irc to both give our motivations into doing this trade and hoping people won't veto it when they have more of a background story into why we are doing this trade.

    And as we speak I still have doubts about letting Hall and Duchene go ;)
  22. Chill Murray

    Chill Murray get well soon jacoby..

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    I'd vetoed this trade, but only because I looked at it as a short-term deal (in which case BC's already crippled team was getting robbed). It makes more sense now that the rationale has been posted, and if the trade was proposed again I would let it happen.
  23. Vineon

    Vineon Fleurdelysé
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    Wasn't me. The only person I commented this trade to was BC. I also thought you were clearly on the winning side of this trade.

    That said, that wouldn't make me veto. I've never used that function, never felt like it was even right to use and I entirely back the idea of removing it.
  24. CaptainKishimoto

    CaptainKishimoto

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    I also vetoed the trade. I thought most of the trade was unfair, but I thought adding in the goalies was a bit overkill. I had a small discussion (or talk, it was basically like 5 lines of dialogue) with pookar and bluecookies about that. BC mentioned he didn't care for which goalie he was getting since he thought they both sucked, but I thought he could get better value in a deal that he was already giving up the better players. Obviously with what gr33n said, he wouldn't really do this deal without improving his goaltending so I guess it's one of those times where you have to bite the bullet (even if Backstrom is your best goalie, no matter how sad that sounds). The one thing I did miss though is that I didn't realize gr33n was trading 3 of his keepers in that trade. I probably shouldn't have vetoed if I knew that, and it doesn't help that I have to veto all this stupid shit going on in my other league.

    Edit: Also lol @ gr33n, trying to pump Kessel's tires to the guy who owned him last year.
  25. SkylarGreen

    SkylarGreen formerly gr33n

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    The guy is on fire Cashew, you know you want too!

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