-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
2013 Smogon Fantasy Hockey
- Thread starter Carl
- Start date
So any finalization on the keeper details?
Specifically:
1.) number of keepers
2.) position minimums
3.) position maximums
4.) if positions are going to be used at the end of this year or the beginning of next year
5.) if we have to keep the number or if we can keep up to that number,
6.) auction amount
7.) if we will have prorated auction amounts
8.) how much money to add to people not keeping the max number
I personally support:
1.) 8 keepers maximum
2.) 1 minimum in each position (so you have to have 1 C / 1 RW / 1 LW / 1 D / 1 G before doubling up in a position)
3.) no maximum for each position (so you can have 4 C / 1 RW / 1 LW / 1 D / 1 G); I can see some subjective concerns for having the ability to hold 4 of one position (though with how easily yahoo is handing out dual eligibility this is less of an issue), so I can compromise to a maximum of 3 at 1 position. I definitely don't support enforced restrictions of 2 at every position because it limits strategies like loading up on wingers or goalies or defensemen, which are all legitimate strategies in keeper leagues and diversity in strategy should be encouraged.
4.) use positions at the end of this year when determining keepers
5.) you can keep any number up to 8, with 8 as the maximum and no minimum
6.) $100 to start instead of $200 because you're picking for half the team (would prefer lesser forced inflation)
7.) prorated auction amounts (perhaps with a bit higher percentage difference between the top teams than we had this year)
8.) adding $10 for each keeper slot not utilized for a bidder (arbitrary number, couldn't use 8 as a divisor because atm 8 is just my personal preference)
Specifically:
1.) number of keepers
2.) position minimums
3.) position maximums
4.) if positions are going to be used at the end of this year or the beginning of next year
5.) if we have to keep the number or if we can keep up to that number,
6.) auction amount
7.) if we will have prorated auction amounts
8.) how much money to add to people not keeping the max number
I personally support:
1.) 8 keepers maximum
2.) 1 minimum in each position (so you have to have 1 C / 1 RW / 1 LW / 1 D / 1 G before doubling up in a position)
3.) no maximum for each position (so you can have 4 C / 1 RW / 1 LW / 1 D / 1 G); I can see some subjective concerns for having the ability to hold 4 of one position (though with how easily yahoo is handing out dual eligibility this is less of an issue), so I can compromise to a maximum of 3 at 1 position. I definitely don't support enforced restrictions of 2 at every position because it limits strategies like loading up on wingers or goalies or defensemen, which are all legitimate strategies in keeper leagues and diversity in strategy should be encouraged.
4.) use positions at the end of this year when determining keepers
5.) you can keep any number up to 8, with 8 as the maximum and no minimum
6.) $100 to start instead of $200 because you're picking for half the team (would prefer lesser forced inflation)
7.) prorated auction amounts (perhaps with a bit higher percentage difference between the top teams than we had this year)
8.) adding $10 for each keeper slot not utilized for a bidder (arbitrary number, couldn't use 8 as a divisor because atm 8 is just my personal preference)
I've kind of been lazy about posting about it but we've talked about most of this on IRC and probably have a majority on most of the issues, but still something we should vote on, so to go through what you've mentioned:
Stuff that's pretty well decided
- 8 keepers
- 0-2 Keepers at each position (there's nothing legitimate about a league where there's a real threat of teams not having enough starting goalies to consistently make minimums or put up competitive numbers from G/LW/RW. There aren't enough viable choices at those positions for the league to be healthy if a handful of owners stockpile the competent options too much. Not going to budge on that part. I don't think we've ever actually specified if the floor should be 0 or 1 so we should talk about that, but personally I don't really have an issue with people not keeping a Defenseman or whatever. I almost wonder if keeping 2 goalies should be required because it's going to be almost impossible to compete otherwise)
- Previous year's positions used when determining position for keepers. Multiposition players can count as either position.
- Offseason trades are allowed, but I'm going to veto anything that doesn't involve both sides taking a keeper, obviously.
Stuff that we really need to iron out
- Basically everything related to auctions except for that we'll keep doing auctions
- I think mostly everyone agrees that we want tiered starting budgets based on performance the previous year like we did last year.
- The issue with the previous line is obviously what numbers to use, which I don't have/haven't been suggested an amazing alternative for. I think that while last year's auction shows we should probably increase the percentage of total budget lower teams have over higher ones, the problems with the auction last year were less systemic and more several owners not using their money well and several owners using their money ingeniously.
- We haven't talked about the numbers themselves much and I'm personally indifferent to things like changing the starting value because it's all arbitrary -- people fall in the trap of thinking the imaginary money means something in itself but all that's really relevant is the percentage of budget being spent and the quality of players relative to the rest of the available pool. We don't use past salary for anything so the prices previous players caught shouldn't even be on people's minds(but I don't disagree with the implication it's part of what was problematic with the auction last year). At least lowering the starting budget would cut down on the +1 bid wars.
- We haven't talked about whether or not people are forced to keep 8 or not but I don't think not keeping the max should be an option because there's really no conceivable situation where that will actually make someone's team better. The draft pool is way too thin missing 96 players for 10 dollars(or whatever value) to be more useful than locking a player down. Keeping less than the maximum allowed is just going to lead to imbalance.
Stuff that's pretty well decided
- 8 keepers
- 0-2 Keepers at each position (there's nothing legitimate about a league where there's a real threat of teams not having enough starting goalies to consistently make minimums or put up competitive numbers from G/LW/RW. There aren't enough viable choices at those positions for the league to be healthy if a handful of owners stockpile the competent options too much. Not going to budge on that part. I don't think we've ever actually specified if the floor should be 0 or 1 so we should talk about that, but personally I don't really have an issue with people not keeping a Defenseman or whatever. I almost wonder if keeping 2 goalies should be required because it's going to be almost impossible to compete otherwise)
- Previous year's positions used when determining position for keepers. Multiposition players can count as either position.
- Offseason trades are allowed, but I'm going to veto anything that doesn't involve both sides taking a keeper, obviously.
Stuff that we really need to iron out
- Basically everything related to auctions except for that we'll keep doing auctions
- I think mostly everyone agrees that we want tiered starting budgets based on performance the previous year like we did last year.
- The issue with the previous line is obviously what numbers to use, which I don't have/haven't been suggested an amazing alternative for. I think that while last year's auction shows we should probably increase the percentage of total budget lower teams have over higher ones, the problems with the auction last year were less systemic and more several owners not using their money well and several owners using their money ingeniously.
- We haven't talked about the numbers themselves much and I'm personally indifferent to things like changing the starting value because it's all arbitrary -- people fall in the trap of thinking the imaginary money means something in itself but all that's really relevant is the percentage of budget being spent and the quality of players relative to the rest of the available pool. We don't use past salary for anything so the prices previous players caught shouldn't even be on people's minds(but I don't disagree with the implication it's part of what was problematic with the auction last year). At least lowering the starting budget would cut down on the +1 bid wars.
- We haven't talked about whether or not people are forced to keep 8 or not but I don't think not keeping the max should be an option because there's really no conceivable situation where that will actually make someone's team better. The draft pool is way too thin missing 96 players for 10 dollars(or whatever value) to be more useful than locking a player down. Keeping less than the maximum allowed is just going to lead to imbalance.
1) I think there should be a minimum of 1 keeper per position and a maximum of 2 keepers per position. There are 5 total positions, so that allows everybody to keep 1 more player for 3 different positions. I'm definitely gonna have to vote against allowing more than 2 keepers per position.
2) The base money amount does not matter at all to me. It obviously has no effect on the outcome of the draft. Obviously we need to start with more than $5-10 per person, but anything from $100-200 doesn't make a difference to me.
3) I think the tiers that we used for giving out money last year worked fine
4) If somebody doesn't want to keep 8 players, that is fine with me. Give them an extra 1/8th of the base salary. Maybe somebody really only has 7 legitimate keepers and would prefer the extra money to spend on a top 1-3 NHL draft pick.
Example: Suppose in the offseason somebody offers 2 of their keepers for a really really good keeper. Then they end up short a keeper, so they only keep 7 and use the extra money to help them win the bid for a potential future star.
2) The base money amount does not matter at all to me. It obviously has no effect on the outcome of the draft. Obviously we need to start with more than $5-10 per person, but anything from $100-200 doesn't make a difference to me.
3) I think the tiers that we used for giving out money last year worked fine
4) If somebody doesn't want to keep 8 players, that is fine with me. Give them an extra 1/8th of the base salary. Maybe somebody really only has 7 legitimate keepers and would prefer the extra money to spend on a top 1-3 NHL draft pick.
Example: Suppose in the offseason somebody offers 2 of their keepers for a really really good keeper. Then they end up short a keeper, so they only keep 7 and use the extra money to help them win the bid for a potential future star.
OrbitingDeath
formerly SkylarGreen
1.) number of keepers 8 is what is decided in general, the more the merrier though
2.) position minimums I like Justin's idea of 1 per position and 3 wildcards
3.) position maximums 2 max a position, multipositional players can be wildcarded to postion of choice
4.) if positions are going to be used at the end of this year or the beginning of next year not sure what you mean, but keepers should be selected on the positions they have in yahoo this year
5.) if we have to keep the number or if we can keep up to that number, keep the number
6.) auction amount 200 but it doesnt really matter
7.) if we will have prorated auction amounts maximum of 10 % difference from #1 to #12
8.) how much money to add to people not keeping the max number prefer keeping the max, everyone should be able to have 8 keeper worthy players.
2.) position minimums I like Justin's idea of 1 per position and 3 wildcards
3.) position maximums 2 max a position, multipositional players can be wildcarded to postion of choice
4.) if positions are going to be used at the end of this year or the beginning of next year not sure what you mean, but keepers should be selected on the positions they have in yahoo this year
5.) if we have to keep the number or if we can keep up to that number, keep the number
6.) auction amount 200 but it doesnt really matter
7.) if we will have prorated auction amounts maximum of 10 % difference from #1 to #12
8.) how much money to add to people not keeping the max number prefer keeping the max, everyone should be able to have 8 keeper worthy players.
It's not exactly fair to impose a maximum on keepers in the middle of the year when it wasn't made clear in the beginning and I've made a strategy to stock up on a certain position.
And it's not even about you "not budging" synre, it's just not fair to both increase the number of keepers and then declare a maximum when it wasn't clearly stated in the beginning of the year. I can see imposing maximums next year but it's completely unfair this year.
And it's not even about you "not budging" synre, it's just not fair to both increase the number of keepers and then declare a maximum when it wasn't clearly stated in the beginning of the year. I can see imposing maximums next year but it's completely unfair this year.
I'd wager that you are the only person unaware of the maximum on keepers. The only reason you are putting up the argument is so you can keep Thomas, Niemi and Rask anyway. Don't act like you are all of a sudden surprised by it. I will waste the next 30 minutes of my life bringing up several posts where we discussed having a maximum of 2 per position.
That was easy.
Just for fun, here is what other people said on the subject:
I don't really get how that is annihilated. You change positions based on time.
That was stated earlier in the year when it was the beginning, and nothing was firmly declared. Now we are nearly a third of the way through the year and it would be silly to impose limiting restrictions.
Get it? Earlier, fine to impose. 1/3 of the way through, not fine.
That was stated earlier in the year when it was the beginning, and nothing was firmly declared. Now we are nearly a third of the way through the year and it would be silly to impose limiting restrictions.
Get it? Earlier, fine to impose. 1/3 of the way through, not fine.
Chill Murray
get well soon jacoby..
To be fair to aldaron, this league does have a history of making policy decisions more than halfway through the season. I'm just glad that it's happening relatively early this year.
Also, I am throwing all of my support behind 8 keepers, positional requirements, and no more than 2 at the same position.
Also, I am throwing all of my support behind 8 keepers, positional requirements, and no more than 2 at the same position.
(preemptive "I swear I was just saying I wanted to trade him but then I started typing and didn't stop")
Putting Nikolai Khabibulin on the trading block.
I haven't looked too deeply into which specific players are where, so I'm not that aware of specific team needs...but I'm sure any team in this league could use a goaltender who can reasonably project to .5 W / .925 SV% / 2.40 GAA stats for the rest of this year and possibly next year.
Putting Nikolai Khabibulin on the trading block.
Note, I'm perfectly aware that the sentiment that "Khabibulin won't keep this up" was rampant in the beginning of the season, and I certainly acknowledge it is a valid (and true) feeling. Khabibulin (or anyone) wasn't going to keep up his ridiculous pace from the beginning of the season.
However, it's now approaching the 40% mark of the season, and Khabibulin is still sitting pretty at .933 SV% and 1.95 GAA. After his ridiculous 9 game beginning, he had a stretch of 3 duds, and in the 7 games since those duds, he has had 5 games with a SV% above .930.
So what do I realistically expect from him? Well let's look at his season's breakdown. First 9 game ridiculous pace was something like .964 SV% and 1.00 GAA, then he had 3 duds at .845 SV% and 4.71 GAA, and then 7 games at .928 SV% and 2.29 GAA. While there is no reason to believe that the past 7 games are not indicative of his projected future totals, I can compromise on his value and see him to be something in the range of .925 SV% and 2.40 GAA, with winning about half his games the rest of the way.
He also has a big contract signed through next year on a rapidly developing Edmonton team, and you have to imagine they're only going to get better after Hall comes back from injury (and mentally tougher).
It is fair to assume that Khabibulin will be starting about 2/3 of the Oiler's games for the rest of this year and next year and will post ratios of about .925 and 2.40 while winning 50% of his games.
Next year is obviously sketchy in terms of keeper value considering Khabibulin has off and on years and the Oilers are obviously young, so I won't try to push any "keeper value for next year" stuff adamantly.
However, it's now approaching the 40% mark of the season, and Khabibulin is still sitting pretty at .933 SV% and 1.95 GAA. After his ridiculous 9 game beginning, he had a stretch of 3 duds, and in the 7 games since those duds, he has had 5 games with a SV% above .930.
So what do I realistically expect from him? Well let's look at his season's breakdown. First 9 game ridiculous pace was something like .964 SV% and 1.00 GAA, then he had 3 duds at .845 SV% and 4.71 GAA, and then 7 games at .928 SV% and 2.29 GAA. While there is no reason to believe that the past 7 games are not indicative of his projected future totals, I can compromise on his value and see him to be something in the range of .925 SV% and 2.40 GAA, with winning about half his games the rest of the way.
He also has a big contract signed through next year on a rapidly developing Edmonton team, and you have to imagine they're only going to get better after Hall comes back from injury (and mentally tougher).
It is fair to assume that Khabibulin will be starting about 2/3 of the Oiler's games for the rest of this year and next year and will post ratios of about .925 and 2.40 while winning 50% of his games.
Next year is obviously sketchy in terms of keeper value considering Khabibulin has off and on years and the Oilers are obviously young, so I won't try to push any "keeper value for next year" stuff adamantly.
Looking for a #2 RW that helps me in SOG and Hits or a package of 2 #2 / #3 defensemen that are upgrades over Ian White / fodder (so hopefully good +/- and decent SOG and Hits).
This is a "this year" trade for me, so I'm not necessarily looking for any keeper value. Basically go to the players page, select all players / RW / season (avg) and sort by current rank. I'm looking at anyone at the bottom of the first 25 or the top of the next 25 for RW if they have some keeper value (Clowe / Callahan / Backes types) and looking at Jagr / Selanne for the no keeper value players.
I know it's harder to piece together 2 defenseman, so I could see RW + D or something as well. Basically just looking for solid upgrades that are not available on the waiver.
Note I based my projected trade values on the Enroth for Filppula trade. Similar situations in unsure keeper value (Miller is the #1 in Buffalo, Khabibulin is old), similar quality performances so far this year from the goalies (though I do believe Khabibulin is a better fantasy option than Enroth for the next 2 years), and similar ranking positions for the returning skater.
This is a "this year" trade for me, so I'm not necessarily looking for any keeper value. Basically go to the players page, select all players / RW / season (avg) and sort by current rank. I'm looking at anyone at the bottom of the first 25 or the top of the next 25 for RW if they have some keeper value (Clowe / Callahan / Backes types) and looking at Jagr / Selanne for the no keeper value players.
I know it's harder to piece together 2 defenseman, so I could see RW + D or something as well. Basically just looking for solid upgrades that are not available on the waiver.
Note I based my projected trade values on the Enroth for Filppula trade. Similar situations in unsure keeper value (Miller is the #1 in Buffalo, Khabibulin is old), similar quality performances so far this year from the goalies (though I do believe Khabibulin is a better fantasy option than Enroth for the next 2 years), and similar ranking positions for the returning skater.
I haven't looked too deeply into which specific players are where, so I'm not that aware of specific team needs...but I'm sure any team in this league could use a goaltender who can reasonably project to .5 W / .925 SV% / 2.40 GAA stats for the rest of this year and possibly next year.
I need to balance out my team a bit due to some of my pending trades. I am looking to move a Center or Left Wing in exchange for a Right Wing.
Staal, H. Sedin and Marleau are all available for 1vs1 trades.
If you want other players like D. Sedin or Skinner, then we will have to come up with a multiplayer deal.
Skinner and Cole are absolutely NOT available unless I am getting 2 RWs in return (obviously some sort of package deal). The point of this trade is for me to have 3 forwards on my roster with RW eligibility.
EDIT: Look at the Blues' goaltending depth chart: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/stl/depthchart
Staal, H. Sedin and Marleau are all available for 1vs1 trades.
If you want other players like D. Sedin or Skinner, then we will have to come up with a multiplayer deal.
Skinner and Cole are absolutely NOT available unless I am getting 2 RWs in return (obviously some sort of package deal). The point of this trade is for me to have 3 forwards on my roster with RW eligibility.
EDIT: Look at the Blues' goaltending depth chart: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/stl/depthchart
Alright, let’s sidetrack for a moment in this thread. I’m looking for some advice and I feel that our league is pretty competitive to the point that I’ll get some worthwhile opinions.
Sidney Crosby is out indefinitely again after taking that smack to the head from David Krejci last week. I’m currently in 3rd place in my standard Yahoo money league, 12 points up on 4th place and 1 point back of 2nd, and Crosby is on my roster. I can wait it out like I have been most the season (I used a 3rd round pick on Crosby at the draft) or I can try to move him for some sort of value. I’m leaning toward the latter so I can try to lock down a first round bye for playoffs. What would you do, members of the Smogon league? If you’re thinking trade like I am, what do you think the return is in a 1 for 1 center swap? I already tried offering Crosby for Stamkos to the guy in 9th place who is statistically dead last in assists (I’m dead last in goals, actually, so this would help me regardless) but he balked, claiming it was too risky, and countered with Mikko Koivu. Not the return I’m looking for, to say the least.
Thoughts?
Sidney Crosby is out indefinitely again after taking that smack to the head from David Krejci last week. I’m currently in 3rd place in my standard Yahoo money league, 12 points up on 4th place and 1 point back of 2nd, and Crosby is on my roster. I can wait it out like I have been most the season (I used a 3rd round pick on Crosby at the draft) or I can try to move him for some sort of value. I’m leaning toward the latter so I can try to lock down a first round bye for playoffs. What would you do, members of the Smogon league? If you’re thinking trade like I am, what do you think the return is in a 1 for 1 center swap? I already tried offering Crosby for Stamkos to the guy in 9th place who is statistically dead last in assists (I’m dead last in goals, actually, so this would help me regardless) but he balked, claiming it was too risky, and countered with Mikko Koivu. Not the return I’m looking for, to say the least.
Thoughts?
I'm personally planning on waiting it out in the same situation and hoping I can get a better return once he's healthier, going under the assumption he will actually get healthier. I think he's too risky to hold on to long term but if he isn't out for the year (which I don't think there's much reason to expect at this point) he'll have way greater trade value later if you can afford to hold it out. First round byes are huge but I think having as good of a roster as possible for the playoffs is more important, especially since making a deal for lesser value doesn't clinch a bye in any more guarantee than holding him does so I'm going to hold, personally. If you can get acceptable value now go for it by all means but I think it's worth waiting if you can't.
So looking at the transactions, it looks like Paul is adding players to his (or rather BC's) team. Honestly I didn't notice until now that he's been doing this (since he's done it before a few times), am I to believe that those moves are made with mutual consent? I'm just wondering since the latest move seemed kind of weird to me (i.e. Varlmov being dropped 5 days after being picked up and replaced with the same player that was dropped for him).
I don't think Paul is doing anything. Varlamov was added because Anderson sucks. Then BC realized that Varlamov also sucks and hasn't even been starting the past few games, so he is adding Anderson in order to get 3 starts.
But when you look at the transactions, 2 different people made the move. That's why I thought it was weird.
Maybe it just shows up that Paul makes the move since they are waiver claims.
lol a week late but yeah they were all me. I picked up varlamov because I was going to stream him on the last day of the week since both dailyfaceoff and yahoo said he was definitely starting, but of course he didn't end up starting. I dropped him and got back anderson since he at least starts almost every game. Then mike smith went on IR so I needed another goalie and picked up varlamov again since he had a really good last few starts.
I too would like to trade. I am willing to trade 2 keepers for 1 keeper in order to upgrade at RW or G. Niemi is the only player that I won't part with.
It would greatly improve your chances if you stop putting Vanek in the deals =D