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Big 2official2mafia - POSTGAME
- Thread starter vonFiedler
- Start date
I've said this in discord and we've talked a lot about it but I'll say it here.
I think magma veil was a cool mechanic that created an interesting problem to solve, and I think if we got a little less lucky or played a little worse, the dominoes start falling and we never have a chance of staying undercover or winning once we get outed.
The Aquas are designed to be a foil, capable of neutralizing and redirecting us whenever they want to with 4 hooks and 2 redirects. If too many of us get even inspected, let alone lynched or killed, the number of kills/kill flavor cannot possibly add up, and if wolves die and kills don't go away, that should also be an indicator.
Villages should 100% be lynching wolves because their slow kills and lynches perform better for them when fewer people are dying overall. Mafia was advantaged leaving them up, especially with the good roles to keep them under their thumb that would save them in a pinch anyway. This negligence on the village's part was a large part of why we were allowed to have a chance.
The other big thing I can't undersell is how much influence and information Agape and Josh were able to create together with their dynamic (in addition to our fair share of luck). By attacking the villages from the inside, and through an alt made to represent me, Josh was able to be a friendly voice influencing decisions while Agape was a more adversarial one. He negotiated so many lynches and kills that Josh was able to vet from a more trustworthy place that villages got complacent about all the right things. And with me acting as Aqua contact, I was able to transition a good environment into a better one for us overall. We fought tooth and nail to keep every single one of us alive, protect us from even another inspection, and slowly fine tune the number of aqua deaths to keep me safe, because literally anything else may have been too much and no one could help us if we were discovered before every faction was down to < 3 members+Aquas dead. We are a very natural common enemy and frankly easy to find through PoE once we were known.
So even if you think magma veil is busted, the rest of my team put in a lot of work to get here and so did I. The only thing I don't defend is the really weak electros design and the open ended lie generator
I think magma veil was a cool mechanic that created an interesting problem to solve, and I think if we got a little less lucky or played a little worse, the dominoes start falling and we never have a chance of staying undercover or winning once we get outed.
The Aquas are designed to be a foil, capable of neutralizing and redirecting us whenever they want to with 4 hooks and 2 redirects. If too many of us get even inspected, let alone lynched or killed, the number of kills/kill flavor cannot possibly add up, and if wolves die and kills don't go away, that should also be an indicator.
Villages should 100% be lynching wolves because their slow kills and lynches perform better for them when fewer people are dying overall. Mafia was advantaged leaving them up, especially with the good roles to keep them under their thumb that would save them in a pinch anyway. This negligence on the village's part was a large part of why we were allowed to have a chance.
The other big thing I can't undersell is how much influence and information Agape and Josh were able to create together with their dynamic (in addition to our fair share of luck). By attacking the villages from the inside, and through an alt made to represent me, Josh was able to be a friendly voice influencing decisions while Agape was a more adversarial one. He negotiated so many lynches and kills that Josh was able to vet from a more trustworthy place that villages got complacent about all the right things. And with me acting as Aqua contact, I was able to transition a good environment into a better one for us overall. We fought tooth and nail to keep every single one of us alive, protect us from even another inspection, and slowly fine tune the number of aqua deaths to keep me safe, because literally anything else may have been too much and no one could help us if we were discovered before every faction was down to < 3 members+Aquas dead. We are a very natural common enemy and frankly easy to find through PoE once we were known.
So even if you think magma veil is busted, the rest of my team put in a lot of work to get here and so did I. The only thing I don't defend is the really weak electros design and the open ended lie generator
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Magmas were a bad faction because they were a binary and swingy. Many of their roles (veil included) were based on people not knowing they existed and were nearly worthless if people knew about them (mole role, fake results, saboteur). This also means that while the magmas think they were fair because IF they were found out, then things could easily come tumbling down, they have the knowledge that their faction exists, while no one else does and thus won't be looking for them.
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Lmao seriously Arceus is the classic Mole role in my games idk how they don't instantly suss u out
Noob team
yeah this was fun, can everyone please stop being mad at me because I misplayed? (edit: I feel like this no matter what people do, so like yeah lol, I'm making a bigger deal of this than I should be) ok, maybe I gave Agape a little too much info,,, but I didn't give josh sheet, and how was I supposed to know? I thought I knew Spock's role PM from day 1, so I figured I could always kill him when I needed to, which is why I gave him info. That being said, I didn't know there was a hidden faction and all that shit and in hindsight I shouldn't have given him all that info, but what the fuck. it's just a game. Also I think most village leaders would have fucked up because LightWolf also believed that either Josh or Pidge was SANDS, neither of us considered that TIK was SANDS. We assumed this because we knew from Seito's role PM there were 10 total sands.
Contrary to popular belief, I did not give Josh sheet, I had Alfa610 and Seito Hakari sheeted but look, we all died in the same night. >.> no one had sheet after that. Speaking of sheet... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sBKW9npRHc6m2jTO3enX2n87uTsXnBFmIbTGAROkS18/edit?usp=sharing
As a result of this, I highly discourage hosts to put false inspect roles in further games. They fucked me up so bad even when I thought there could be a false inspect role (I can give you sands chat logs, when I alliance checked josh to see who was sands, josh or pidge, I was very apprehensive when I got the results).
And also, this was my first game as a faction leader, and look how that went! Hey, maybe a fucked up a little, but this was good experience for me,,, expect more leading in OC from me in the future. And I won't trust as many people.
So maybe I misplayed, but it was fairly difficult to win that even if I gave no information away to neutrals that I thought were working for me.
Peace. Nice job vonFiedler and Yeti :)
edit: pidge apparently did a good job moling stars but he didn't convince me at all so :ok_hand:?
Contrary to popular belief, I did not give Josh sheet, I had Alfa610 and Seito Hakari sheeted but look, we all died in the same night. >.> no one had sheet after that. Speaking of sheet... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sBKW9npRHc6m2jTO3enX2n87uTsXnBFmIbTGAROkS18/edit?usp=sharing
As a result of this, I highly discourage hosts to put false inspect roles in further games. They fucked me up so bad even when I thought there could be a false inspect role (I can give you sands chat logs, when I alliance checked josh to see who was sands, josh or pidge, I was very apprehensive when I got the results).
And also, this was my first game as a faction leader, and look how that went! Hey, maybe a fucked up a little, but this was good experience for me,,, expect more leading in OC from me in the future. And I won't trust as many people.
So maybe I misplayed, but it was fairly difficult to win that even if I gave no information away to neutrals that I thought were working for me.
Peace. Nice job vonFiedler and Yeti :)
edit: pidge apparently did a good job moling stars but he didn't convince me at all so :ok_hand:?
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tl;dr fuck info faker fuck magma veil fuck desperation
also magmas u suck but at least von said you couldn't anyway (fuck desperation again)
repeat fuck magma veil and fuck info faker here millions of times
more to come when i'm more awake
edit: also pidge i thought you were stars lol
also magmas u suck but at least von said you couldn't anyway (fuck desperation again)
repeat fuck magma veil and fuck info faker here millions of times
more to come when i'm more awake
edit: also pidge i thought you were stars lol
i did on discord but:
with pity wins allowed, you get to a position where one faction decides whether another faction wins or not
with them disallowed, it adds an imo dumb strategic layer to the game
and on top of that early alliances mean that you aren't necessarily rewarded for making the best plays before you know desperation exists
It also wasn't a good enough way for electros to win
"magmas flip as wolves and inspect as wolves until too little of them are alive for it to matter"
Before the third of us died, we'd inspect/flip as wolves with a kill on top of whatever our role was, on the third death the info would be retroactively fixed
far too lazy to reply to the rest, but we knew and I protected you because I assumed you weren't doing anything to harm us. This was a good play on our part (imo) because you were actually attempting to win with us at that point and killing you wouldve just gotten us bopped sooner.
Well that was a pretty hopeless cause in all scenarios regardless ;/ Thanks for the input guys.
Thanks for hosting the game vonFiedler and WolfYeti, I won't comment on design because people are too salty and me too happy about win to have meaningful discussion.
shoutouts to josh and blazade who put huge effort into this game and were under a lot of stress
also ty for acidphoenix for being a reliable ally
now I can finally play pokemon instead of mafia (nah I'll just end up playing Overwatch)
shoutouts to josh and blazade who put huge effort into this game and were under a lot of stress
also ty for acidphoenix for being a reliable ally
now I can finally play pokemon instead of mafia (nah I'll just end up playing Overwatch)
Flops:
not going rogue and shooting the hell out of the wolves with my role blanker. Lmao, last time you'll see me cooperate with shit if there's a known mole in charge. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on mafia with any chance of going rogue anyways since every other ability simply wasn't good enough for aquas to do it.
Bad leadership reviving a wolf TWICE both on twin and on acid's end
Listening to the wolves with the lynch almost every cycle. Village is good if they knowingly buddy up with the guy that wants them all dead and give him control of the lynch
Mafia not going for sab. I still maintain it was a stupid as fuck play especially since we knew since twin died that it was blazade which was cycle 4/5 I think? Clearly blazade wanted to protect us am I rite?
Letting a not Uncle Sam pull an Uncle Sam style of leading which ultimately led to mafia's downfall.
Pros: idk.
I still maintain the notion that pretty much everyone played badly bar josh/drawsome/blazade.
Electros: arguably played the best but they were so fucked from the get go with no chance of winning it doesn't matter how they played.
Muds: thinking I'm not getting assfucked rn means I won't get fucked in the ass later allowed magmas to stomp even harder than they actually did. They still got fucked in the ass by the end of it.
Sands: I honestly can't tell if they did anything all game because they did nothing of importance really. Blazade plz help since I think you mentioned they did something this game but I forgot.
Stars: idk really. That one cycle where stars lost 4 in one cycle sealed it for then since they lost so many members at once you couldn't tell how many players they actually had and they ended up having an equal amount of moled as they did living players lmao. Rip US though, it's funny because it wasn't even aquas that completely killed stars that cycle but w/e
Aquas: too many things to count. I'll make a seperate post saying what I thought we did wrong when I get home.
Magmas: didn't play badly seeing as how they stomped village. Ggwp
Magmas were busted as all hell. Magma veil + lie detector was fucking broken beyond belief, throw on having a mafia mole and walrein dying cycle 1 means they'd have to have thrown to lost anyways so idk wha to really say.
In terms of odds of winning based off roles: magmas >>>>>>>>>>>> aquas >>>>>> stars >>>> everyone else had no chance really but electros were especially fucked lol.
not going rogue and shooting the hell out of the wolves with my role blanker. Lmao, last time you'll see me cooperate with shit if there's a known mole in charge. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on mafia with any chance of going rogue anyways since every other ability simply wasn't good enough for aquas to do it.
Bad leadership reviving a wolf TWICE both on twin and on acid's end
Listening to the wolves with the lynch almost every cycle. Village is good if they knowingly buddy up with the guy that wants them all dead and give him control of the lynch
Mafia not going for sab. I still maintain it was a stupid as fuck play especially since we knew since twin died that it was blazade which was cycle 4/5 I think? Clearly blazade wanted to protect us am I rite?
Letting a not Uncle Sam pull an Uncle Sam style of leading which ultimately led to mafia's downfall.
Pros: idk.
I still maintain the notion that pretty much everyone played badly bar josh/drawsome/blazade.
Electros: arguably played the best but they were so fucked from the get go with no chance of winning it doesn't matter how they played.
Muds: thinking I'm not getting assfucked rn means I won't get fucked in the ass later allowed magmas to stomp even harder than they actually did. They still got fucked in the ass by the end of it.
Sands: I honestly can't tell if they did anything all game because they did nothing of importance really. Blazade plz help since I think you mentioned they did something this game but I forgot.
Stars: idk really. That one cycle where stars lost 4 in one cycle sealed it for then since they lost so many members at once you couldn't tell how many players they actually had and they ended up having an equal amount of moled as they did living players lmao. Rip US though, it's funny because it wasn't even aquas that completely killed stars that cycle but w/e
Aquas: too many things to count. I'll make a seperate post saying what I thought we did wrong when I get home.
Magmas: didn't play badly seeing as how they stomped village. Ggwp
Magmas were busted as all hell. Magma veil + lie detector was fucking broken beyond belief, throw on having a mafia mole and walrein dying cycle 1 means they'd have to have thrown to lost anyways so idk wha to really say.
In terms of odds of winning based off roles: magmas >>>>>>>>>>>> aquas >>>>>> stars >>>> everyone else had no chance really but electros were especially fucked lol.
for what its worth blazade genuinely did want to go for an aqua win and claim to you sometime around c7, i said i didnt want to put all my eggs in one basket and commit to going with aquas because i felt confident in the control i had on sands and stars (and turned out i was right because i didnt even need to claim anything to get stars to flip on chekov LOL). blazade got outvoted and in the end it didnt matter.
i still wish i thought of creating a fake rufflets faction
i still wish i thought of creating a fake rufflets faction
I also said this in Discord but if I was around for the beginning of the game I would have pushed for the lie generator to be used to fake convert people to another secret faction and get them all to betray everyone which would have totally ruined the game so you can thank my new job for that.i still wish i thought of creating a fake rufflets faction
ok I will comment on the game
I pushed for an allywin with phoenix but was outvoted :7
please don't flame vonfiedler, when he and yeti managed to create a game that was interesting and made people get involved (proof: such passionate postgame on discord), this goes a long way towards reviving smogon mafia
my 2 cents on the game are: yes magmas were the strongest faction (disinformation OP) but also were a skillcap faction because the disinformation needed to be actively abused via moling and social control
our veil and thus wolf gave us leeway to do mistakes, which was the OP aspect I think (we weren't punished for numerous info-spreading mistakes like we should have)
but then again other factions made bad plays as well, tactically as well as socially: there were no solid alliances, and the wolves (MAGMAS) were able to abuse the disorganized state of the others, playing the factions against each other without anyone (except aquas, props to them for that) noticing that they were being fed disinformation
tl;dr don't believe populists when they tell you lies on TV
I pushed for an allywin with phoenix but was outvoted :7
please don't flame vonfiedler, when he and yeti managed to create a game that was interesting and made people get involved (proof: such passionate postgame on discord), this goes a long way towards reviving smogon mafia
my 2 cents on the game are: yes magmas were the strongest faction (disinformation OP) but also were a skillcap faction because the disinformation needed to be actively abused via moling and social control
our veil and thus wolf gave us leeway to do mistakes, which was the OP aspect I think (we weren't punished for numerous info-spreading mistakes like we should have)
but then again other factions made bad plays as well, tactically as well as socially: there were no solid alliances, and the wolves (MAGMAS) were able to abuse the disorganized state of the others, playing the factions against each other without anyone (except aquas, props to them for that) noticing that they were being fed disinformation
tl;dr don't believe populists when they tell you lies on TV
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Yeah stars play was laughably shit all around lol. Letting 4 members die all at once, NOT NOTICING I WAS AQUANAUT EVEN AFTER RSSP DEATH!!!!, stars just never had time to take spotlight really since by the time I successfully moled, anyone relevant was already dead lmaofor what its worth blazade genuinely did want to go for an aqua win and claim to you sometime around c7, i said i didnt want to put all my eggs in one basket and commit to going with aquas because i felt confident in the control i had on sands and stars (and turned out i was right because i didnt even need to claim anything to get stars to flip on chekov LOL). blazade got outvoted and in the end it didnt matter.
i still wish i thought of creating a fake rufflets faction
Dissappointed to have died so early, not much or a experience into OC ganeplay