350 Cup

Important stuff

Abra, Cranidos, and Gastly are all banned.

Also, I've started a council with unfixable and kexmex (I don't know his smogon name). Decisions will be based on a simple majority in the council. If you want to join the council, just be a good presence in the thread, and knowledgable, and I will try to approach you.
Whoa whoa, i get an abra and cranidos ban, but why Gastly? In all honesty, its somewhat easy to wall, and it can't take any hits. It doesn't hit hard enough without life orb, and dies to a poke; while it often doesn't have the power to clean ohko stuff. IMO Gastly is a good cleaner, but not all that much better than greninja in OU, because it just can't OHKO a lot of mons.
This.

I get the feeling it's being banned alongside Abra due to their similarities (almost all references to Gastly for the last 2 pages have had Abra attached to them...), but there really are core differences that set them apart.

Abra was a very potent Pokemon that could sweep even prepared stall teams thanks to Psyshock off base 210 special attack which killed specially defensive walls, and was equally strong against HO thanks to its ability to evade any OHKO thanks to its focus sash and pretty much get a guaranteed kill thanks to it if the HO team wasn't using Stunky. Calm Mind sets were also another possibility that could rip through anything bar Drowzee.

Gastly, on the other hand, I haven't seen any pro-ban rallying on from the community and was just banned straight up.

I mean, it almost has the same special attack stat, but there are many differences which make one ban worthy but not the other. First of all, it doesn't have Psyshock. Huge difference. This essentially makes Gastly a joke for stall teams really. At worst it can taunt, but as long as you have an attack that it isn't immune to you can probably 3HKO it in return. While this is different for HO teams, there are still many relevant checks that can switch in and take a hit to force it out. It can't pull off sash like Abra which means it's prone to being pressured with an OHKO (read: relatively often). and compared to Abra the lower speed is far easier to deal with.

There have been valid complaints for the Abra and Cranidos bans - but the community hasn't even really even talked about Gastly. Why ban it? You didn't even post any justification.

Give it a suspect test where all arguments talking about it won't be through Abra, at least.

EDIT: On an additional note, I don't even think Gastly warrants use over Mega Gengar due to Shadow Tag's ridiculous utility. If anything deserves to be checked out it's that.
 
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This.

I get the feeling it's being banned alongside Abra due to their similarities (all references to Gastly for the last 2 pages have had Abra attached to them...), but there really are core differences that set them apart.

Abra was a very potent Pokemon that could sweep even prepared stall teams thanks to Psyshock off base 210 special attack which killed specially defensive walls, and was equally strong against HO thanks to its ability to evade any OHKO thanks to its focus sash and pretty much get a guaranteed kill thanks to it if the HO team wasn't using Stunky. Calm Mind sets were also another possibility that could rip through anything bar Drowzee.

Gastly, on the other hand, I haven't seen any pro-ban rallying on and was just banned straight up.

I mean, it almost has the same special attack stat, but there are many differences which make one ban worthy but not the other. First of all, it doesn't have Psyshock. Huge difference. This essentially makes Gastly a joke for stall teams really. At worst it can taunt, but as long as you have an attack that it isn't immune to you can probably 3HKO it in return. While this is different for HO teams, there are still many relevant checks that can switch in and take a hit to force it out. It can't pull off sash like Abra which means it's prone to being pressured with an OHKO (read: relatively often). and compared to Abra the lower speed if far easier to deal with.

There have been valid complaints for the Abra and Cranidos bans - but the community hasn't even really even talked about Gastly. Why ban it? You didn't even post any justification.

Give it a suspect test where all arguments talking about it won't be through Abra, at least.

EDIT: On an additional note, I don't even think Gastly warrants use over Mega Gengar due to Shadow Tag's ridiculous utility. If anything deserves to be checked out it's that.
Yeah, I asked previously for an explanation about the bans, but didn't really get a solid answer about Gastly. I know this is TBK and the council's decision, but imo we've gone too fast with this.
 
Aw man, just when I started playing my best Pokémon gets banned :(

Also, like someone said before me, could anyone tell me a good replacement for Cranidos? I put M-Kangaskhan as a temporary replacement.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
EDIT: On an additional note, I don't even think Gastly warrants use over Mega Gengar due to Shadow Tag's ridiculous utility. If anything deserves to be checked out it's that.
Gastly tends to be a cleaner because of its power and speed, or a stallbreaker due to taunt. Its piss poor bulk doesn't let it break stall, weak scalds will ohko. (unless slowpoke which runs zen headbutt anyways). tbh its really not THAT good, I feel like it got caught in with abra and cranidos when there was no reason to. Should we ban shroomish too?
 
I've just started, but I've really been having fun with this set:

Vibrava @ Choice Band
Base Stats: 100/140/100/100/100/140
Nature: Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP (4 SpA if using Fire Blast)
Moveset:
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Steel Wing / Fire Blast (change nature to Naive)
- U-turn

A basic Choice Band set, but on what I believe is the fastest Dragon in the 350 metagame, boasting almost unresisted STABs and an enormous Attack stat, as well as U-turn for scouting and momentum. No standard Uber except Lugia and defensive Arceus can tank its STABs, very few pokemon resist them, and even fewer are actually at all common in 350.
Rock Slide or Steel Wing hits Togekiss, with Rock Slide putting the hurt on Ho-oh and Lugia along with a flinch chance, and also provides perfect coverage with itd STABs, while Steel Wing rips up Xerneas. Fire Blast knock Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn for a loop off its newly boosted special attack., especially if Groudon gives it Sun support. I use Rock Slide, but whatever floats yer boat.
 
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I would also like to point out that most of the pro-ban/anti-ban discussion has centered exclusively, when it comes to checks/counters, on Pokemon that get the 350 Cup boost -I almost never see anyone talk about the possibility of using a straight-up Uber to deal with this stuff. Ghastly has no real answer to Mega Kangaskhan if it's not carrying Will O Wisp, for instance, Aegislash can easily deal with it, Yveltal can handily Sucker Punch it if it wants to straight attack, etc. And now there's Primal Groudon, Mega Rayquaza, and other silliness to try out.

The fact that most 350 Cup teams are 100% LC Pokemon doesn't mean the Ubers are unviable in comparison, it just means people get excited about the 350 Cup boost and ignore everything that doesn't benefit.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I am much of an offender in this, and like i have said before, gastly has plenty of common checks and counters that make it very manageable, and it got thrown in to the convo with abra and cranidos for no particular reason.

On a different note, Mega Rayquaza is absolutely insane atm.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Mega Ray is still a beast, and RP groudon is sexy as hell.

Mega Ray can rape the entire tier, beating fast and slow threats alike due to its massive coverage and power.

RP Groudon-P rips apart offensive teams with its insane speed, power, and coverage.

Groudon-P is A or A+
Mega Ray is A+ or S
...
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Mega ray actually was banned from Ubers, that's the thing
oh wow, just saw that. damnit now I have to try in ubers. w/e. Mega ray probably had some sort of decent counter here, but looks like we don't have to find out (and its probably for the better)
 
Ok, Gastly really needs to be suspected before being straight-up banned, especially since there was zero outcry for it to be banned in the first place. In the meantime, I'm using Drifloon as my speedy ghostie, though it's less offensively powerful and much bulkier - 190/68/88 defenses and access to will-o-wisp and pain split makes it incredibly hard to wear down.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Mega Rayray is banned in Ubers (now exists in Anything Goes or AG). I'd assume that means that it would be banned here, since this is essentially an Uber OM, but idk what TBK wants to do.
 
Mega Rayquaza ban confirmed.

Speaking of which, I think it's bull hockey to have gastly banned but honedge free to roam. Gastly wasn't particular centralizing, was just a good answer to a lot of other common threats. They both wall staravia, rufflet, mega-kanga, and a load of other common attackers, and honedge iron heading through fairy-walls just like gastly sludge bombed them.... I don't know... seems unfair to ban one and not the other. I'd say keep them both, but that's just me.
 
Mega Rayquaza ban confirmed.

Speaking of which, I think it's bull hockey to have gastly banned but honedge free to roam. Gastly wasn't particular centralizing, was just a good answer to a lot of other common threats. They both wall staravia, rufflet, mega-kanga, and a load of other common attackers, and honedge iron heading through fairy-walls just like gastly sludge bombed them.... I don't know... seems unfair to ban one and not the other. I'd say keep them both, but that's just me.
How does Gastly even wall Staravia, Rufflet or Mega-Kanga? He can't switch in on a bravebird from either Staravia or rufflet and Mega-Kanga just wrecks it witch sucker punch if Gastly isn't carrying WoW. Gastly is not a wall, it's a wallbreaker. You can't compare Gastly witch Honedge, when you just look at the stats, you can see that.
 

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