1. Our third apparel sale is live. New design + reprint of the athletic design. Support us and get a shirt!
  2. The moderators of this forum are cant say, Hulavuta, and DragonWhale.
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  4. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Singles 3v3 General Discussion

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by cant say, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,829
    Pheromosa.png ____ Celesteela.png
    Battle Spot Singles Discussion

    This thread is for anything related to BSS! What's good? What's bad? What crazy Pokemon / sets / strategies have you seen on the ladder? But most importantly; what are your first thoughts on the early stages of this metagame and how does it differ from ORAS BSS?

    ---

    For those that don't know, Battle Spot Singles (BSS) is the ranked singles mode played on your 3DS games. The rules are that you bring 6 Pokemon but choose 3 at team preview, mascot and mythical legendaries are banned, and item clause is used.

    ---

    This is now playable on Pokemon Showdown!
  2. I dont care

    I dont care

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    I loved play BSS, but it's not so popular, so I was annoyed after long time playing myself.
    I hope with this gen it will take a good way and more people will start to play it. More we are, more is the fun.

    Now, I have a question. Are ultra beasts usable?
    And must I use pokémon from alola Pokédex or just pokémon Alola born?
    Anyway I think now BSS will going in a fast way.
    Beat harder, then win.
    I mean, with this Z-move and mega evolution we have to use the most big threat to take the victory in the fastest way.

    Or am I wrong?
  3. DragonWhale

    DragonWhale It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,215
    UBs are allowed.

    The pokemon must be at least kalos born, but since we don't have pokebank yet it's basically whatever you can get in sun and moon minus the 600+ bst legendaries.
    I dont care likes this.
  4. I dont care

    I dont care

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    Well, I think tapu wil have a good use here.
    But I wanna use UB04 Lighting, with tail glow seems cool.
  5. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,829
    Did you not know about our Gen 6 Battle Spot forum? We have a whole community playing that you could have been involved with this whole time.

    ---

    Back to being on topic though, I really want to try Nihilego! Faster than Garchomp with a really nice special attack stat (high enough to OHKO Chomp with HP Ice too) backed by good special bulk. An actually viable user of Power Gem is pretty hype as well.
    Mattapod and I dont care like this.
  6. mhykah

    mhykah

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    167
    I'm excited to see how Rain turns out in SuMo! With Pelipper and the Tapus it definitely feels a lot more viable than in ORAS. Here are some cores I have in mind for post-bank although it's still very WIP:

    Pelipper @ Damp Rock
    Ability: Drizzle
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Hurricane
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Stealth Rock

    Ferrothorn covers Pelipper’s Electric and Rock weaknesses while Pelipper covers Ferrothorn’s Fighting and Fire weaknesses

    The two Tapus that I have my mind on the most is Tapu Koko for perfect Thunder accuracy and Tapu Lele to block priority to ensure that Swift Swimmers don't get hit. Pelipper/Tapu Koko/Pheromosa also make a nice VoltTurn core:

    Tapu Koko @ Life Orb (?)
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch

    Pheromosa @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naughty Nature
    - High Jump Kick
    - Ice Beam
    - U-turn
    - Lunge

    Before pokebank though, there are quite a few losses: no Ferrothorn and no great Swift Swimmers (Poliwrath maybe?) Either way the new generation is definitely looking up for Rain!
    surgical_tubing and cant say like this.
  7. NOVED

    NOVED
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,274
    Aegislash feels really good in this meta. Of course we all know it was great in Gen 6 but I feel its just gotten better in SM, it can check a lot of the new threats like Pheromosa and Tapu Bulu.

    I've seen a lot of people run the classic WP set and that seems to be working just as well as ever. I've been running Ghostium Z and being able to get off a nuke with aegi has been pretty damn fun.
  8. I dont care

    I dont care

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    Pheromosa seems a big threat.
    What do you think about Silvally, can he have a niche?
  9. Solerme

    Solerme Howling without the moon
    is an official Team Rater

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    312
    I totally agree with Noved on Aegislash, i'm using it with the old Aegi/Mence core just to gain some meta experience, and it's working pretty well. And even if it's a bit early, I would also say that that Mence core still works fine, but yeah it's just the beginning and people are just throwing out random gen7 stuff, so you never know...

    I'm also pretty impressed by Tapu lele, spreading out some crazy damage even without using items that boosts the fire power. I wonder how much does Psychic Terrain increase the damage
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  10. Theorymon

    Theorymon Time to Jam to the Mania!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,723
    So just from battling on Pokemon Showdown today, I think there is a dark horse we have been forgetting about... a threat that just sorta came out of the shadows, and if this trend keeps up, may end up being a big part of the metagame!

    [​IMG]

    Mimikyu @ Life Orb / Ghostium Z
    Ability: Disguise
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly / Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Play Rough
    - Shadow Claw
    - Shadow Sneak

    Yeah seriously, Mimikyu has been my mvp all day, and I've been seeing other people using it very well too. Disguise is one HELL of an ability, basically giving you a free focus sash while being able to carry another item. This ended up being way bigger than I thought, since with a Life Orb, Mimikyu actually hits fairly hard, making it a pretty good revenge killer in a pinch. I've also seen some people use Ghostium Z to hit Celesteela as hard as possible, though I personally prefer Life Orb for the stronger Play Rough.

    It isn't perfect of course: Mimikyu still isn't quite that strong so it has a hard time taking on a bunch of full health stuff once disguise is busted, and it isn't as fast as I'd like it. Still though, its pretty common right now, and I can see why!

    On another note, I can concur that Aegislash is even more common than usual. In fact, its making Pheromosa not quite as scary as I hoped, since so many teams pack an Aegislash that I just end up benching it.
  11. 6tennis

    6tennis

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    378
    Mega Blaziken is shaping up to be strong again. With Thundurus slowly losing ground to Tapu Koko and Talonflame getting nerfed, a mixed sweeper set could be very strong in the current metagame. Thoughts?
  12. cannibal

    cannibal

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    405
    I haven't finished the game yet, so haven't gotten around to trying out Battlespot. From what I've noticed, There seems to be a lot of slow Pokémon in Alola, so Trick Room might be fun to try out.

    Weird question, but does is show which moves are super effective in online battles like it does in-game? Even though I've always struggled with type charts, I've been kind of hoping they don't show it so that I make an effort to actually memorize it.
  13. I dont care

    I dont care

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    Yeah guys, talonflame?
    Is he bad now?
    Brave Bird can't be used now.
    Acrobatics is a good choice but he lacks power cuz he can't have Choice band.

    Priority Flying Z-move doesn't sound bad though.
    But i'm happy now mega blaziken have a niche, and with the mega buff I suppose more megas can have a good role now. Any idea?
    What about Kangaskhan nerf? Parental bond now hits 25% with the second hit, and in this gen he misses power-up punch.
  14. Solerme

    Solerme Howling without the moon
    is an official Team Rater

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    312
    I still think that tflame is going to be viable. Even with the nerf it still has a pretty good speed and it can be used, imo, either with a bulky SpD spread, as the gen 6 one with taunt/wow/roost/filler attack, but being more careful to the speed tiers, or as an all outattacker with maybe Flying gem+ acrobatics? Or the z move, or even with brave bird + choice band also with the nerf of gale wings.
    Flying-type attacks are going to be pretty good in this meta, and being flying+fire is even better. Probably one of the best offensive combination in new gen, imo.

    About mKang, i'm not quite sure if it might work in gen7. I mean, it's still strong and if it still was in the gen6 meta i would've seen it working even with the nerf, but with the nerf plus all the new threats, such as Pheromosa (countering alone the Kanga/Chomp core), it will have a really hard time to win the competition for a mega slot.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  15. GateCreeper

    GateCreeper

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    Messages:
    202
    Trick Room isn't that great from what I've played with from it in Battle Spot Singles, and I feel it'd be the same in Doubles as well. No Cress or Megas like Heracross or Mawile to abuse TR really hurts the usefulness of it. Aegislash is a problem for Trick Room teams as a whole too, and it seems to be very common at the moment. However, when Trick Room is successfully set up, beasts like this can take advantage of it:

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Rock Head / Lightning Rod
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Brick Break
    - Swords Dance / Bonemerang / Stone Edge

    Almost nothing likes switching into this thing if you play it correctly in TR. It scores a 2HKO or OHKO on practically every mon in the current metagame (don't quote me on this). It has its uses as a wallbreaker outside of TR as well. Definitely way better than I expected. I can see it getting better once pokebank comes out. It'll have better teammates around like Cress to set up Trick Room and Lunar Dance when needed.

    If only this thing had access to Low Kick...
    cannibal likes this.
  16. Etienne

    Etienne

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    I'm not one hundred percent set on this three versus three thing, I understand that it's to shorted battles, so I get that, but it feels unreal. Overall i'm a singles player, it's pretty well made, but it feels as if UB's should be banned in it since Pheromosa is just floating around destroying dreams, hopefully they're banned sooner then later. Otherwise, it's pretty stable, i'm going to stay with it, I feel as if it's a lot better then doubles, special, and championship (or whatever it's called.) I have a little toxapex set here, so if you want to try it, here (the moveset is pretty overused though, so not very original.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Toxapex @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Recover
    - Haze
    - Scald

    it's very good for walling and generally stalling, which I enjoy, so i'm pretty happy with it, but it could use some work. I hope they improve on it, but i'm perfectly fine with it as-is. Just needs a little more balancing.

    tl;dr - I'm a fan, okay, I just feel as if it needs more stabilization.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    cant say likes this.
  17. Theorymon

    Theorymon Time to Jam to the Mania!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,723
    Something important to note: unlike OU, we do not control the banlist for Battle Spot metagames. The banlist is up to Gamefreak and Nintendo, and if the past has shown us anything, its that these banlists are ironclad and unmoving. Even stuff that was complained about like Mega Kangaskhan stuck around for the whole generation!

    Regardless, I actually have to disagree that the UB's are that broken from the 87 Pokemon Showdown Battle Spot battles I've done as of this post. Pheromosa can get scary, but being hard countered by Aegislash is real bummer for it, and it doesn't deal too well with Mega Gengar without a Hidden Power either. Hidden Power variants usually lose out on the coverage to beat Fairy types as well. Don't get me wrong, Pheromosa is no joke: I just don't think its its unbeatable.

    Funnily enough, I think the best Ultra Beast right now might actually be Celesteela! Here is the most common set you'll see.

    [​IMG]

    Celesteela @ Leftovers
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Relaxed / Impish Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect / Substitute
    - Heavy Slam
    - Flamethrower / Earthquake / Substitute

    This thing is like Ferrothorn's sista from another motha! While it doesn't have Iron Barbs, it makes up for that with a unique typing that allows it to check threats such as Garchomp and Pheromosa better than Ferrothorn would if it was allowed right now. Beast Boost is more useful than you think too: If you manage to get a KO with Heavy Slam, Celesteela becomes damn near impossible to KO from the physical side with unboosted attacks! Flamethrower makes Celesteela a very usable Kartana check as well, but Earthquake is awesome for catching Magnezones on the switch, since a lot of them have started running Magnet Pull as reaction to Celesteela.

    A very common teammate I've been seeing with it Alolan Marowak. After testing it myself, I can see why: Alolan Marowak is an excellent check to most Electric-types thanks to Lightning Rod! It also has a ton of power with Thick Club, so it heavily punishes them too. You would think it'd make a great Celesteela check too, but Subseed Celesteela can actually win believe it or not, since Marowak is so slow. I guess this is why I saw some running Flame Charge: to avoid getting Subseeded to death, since I don't think you will be sweeping with that low base Speed!

    I think its important to note that Alolan Marowak feels like an "early game" sort of thing. I imagine that once Pokebank comes out, it will fall into obscurity (I could be wrong though!), since Ghost Fire isn't really that great of a defensive typing, and getting outsped by Aegislash is a huge bummer. It might have a niche on Trick Room teams postbank. For now though, Alolan Marowak is surprisingly effective, so if your're of that thing, you probably should start using it asap, because these may be the best two months for it ever!

    Back to Celesteela: while defensive is by far the most common, it might be a bit more versatile than that. I've seen a few offensive Celesteela that use Flame Charge or Autotomize (while Autotomize lowers its insane weight, it actually still hits most offensive Pokemon for 120 BP believe it or not lol). The idea is that they are late game sweepers with Heavy Slam, and no one sees it coming since its usually defensive. This lets you pull stunts like turning that weakened Tapu Koko into Beast Boost food for your sweep!

    Overall, I think so far, Celesteela might be the star of the metagame, which is really not what I expected! Of course, this could change: the metagame is only a few days old, and for all we know, maybe postbank will affect it harder than expected (I predict that it will still be very good, just a bit harder to use because of the large amount of Fire-types hiding behind post bank and competition with Ferrothorn). Regardless, if you want to make teams now, I'd say that you can't afford not to take Celesteela into account when teambuilding right now!
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    jroxas, Demantoid, cannibal and 2 others like this.
  18. I dont care

    I dont care

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    Ya, but when i was here the BS forum had just 6 people and others that were here just for a post and then gone.

    Uhm, Celesteela looks really interesting.
    What about UB01 indeed?
  19. MagikaripIsOP

    MagikaripIsOP

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    279
    Use black sludge
  20. Theorymon

    Theorymon Time to Jam to the Mania!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,723
    So maybe its just me, but I've been seeing a pretty high amount of Porygon2 lately, probably because Aegislash messes up so many important Pokemon. Because of this, I've noticed in battles that Sub Toxic Aegislash is better than ever, since quite a few teams have trouble with Aegislash as soon as Porygon2 goes down! It also helps that a lot of Celesteela are using a relaxed nature atm for Flamethrower, so with Modest, Aegislash can put a Substitute up before it gets Leech Seeded!

    Makes me wonder if we are gonna start seeing speedcreep wars between Aegislash and Celesteela tbh...

    Oh yeah: I also got owned by a Z-Hypnosis Xurkitree too. For those of you who don't know, Z-Hypnosis is like regular Hypnosis except it also gives you a speed boost, which can be pretty deadly, especially if Hypnosis hits!
    MagikaripIsOP and I dont care like this.
  21. I dont care

    I dont care

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    So, is possible have a top 10 of bss pokemon used right now?

    Pheromosa, Aegislash, Celesteela, Porygon2 seems increased, what else? I saw some Tapu, but in these day I can't play much, is hard, for me, make a list.
  22. NOVED

    NOVED
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,274
    It's still too early to tell what the 'top 10' pokemon really are. Whats being used a lot now may end up seeing a lot less usage later on. We only have a rough idea atm of whats good and whats not. And atm theres also no usage stats up, so even statistically speaking we cant say whats seeing the most play. And even usage stats at the beginning of the gen are sure to be kinda wonky. I think once usage stats go up people will start preparing more for whats popular and we'll start to see more of a meta forming then.

    But for right now i wouldnt worry about any kind of top 10/usage stats/viability ranks or whatever.
    Theorymon and Psynergy like this.
  23. Bench Warmer

    Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    39
    Anyone had success with bulky Arcanine? Good Fire types are in very short supply, and with all the Steels, Fairies, and Bugs running amok, they are needed more than ever. I'm focusing my efforts on in-game and not playing much, but would love opinions:

    [​IMG]
    Arcanine @ Leftovers
    Intimidate
    Calm
    252 HP/44 Def/200 SpD/12 Speed

    Flamethrower / Burn Up
    Snarl
    Will-O-Wisp
    Morning Sun

    Intended to be a select check and defensive pivot that makes life difficult for Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, Pheromosa, etc. This is designed to force switches against many of the common threats, either by threatening to kill something or cripple it with WoW/Snarl which P2 can't do as well since it's mainly designed to sit there, tank, and hope to stall things to death. It all depends on which Fire move you choose to run. The reason I went with +SpD and max SpD is to make life easier against Aegi and special Tapus. You don't really need significant Def investment against Pheromosa because you only need 44 Def EVs in order to be able to switch into non-LO HJK:

    Some more calcs to justify SpD investment over Def:

    If necessary, this is able to stall non-LO Koko and holds the possibility of outplaying Aegi. Calc assumes that the enemy activated Weakness Policy off a weak Snarl, if not:
    Basically, lots of opportunities to win vs Aegi.

    It can outrun and cripple Celesteela:
    Despite the burn damage nerf, burn damage at least nullifies Leftovers so treat this calc as taking only Leech Seed healing into account. You will also always break Celesteela subs no matter what, so it can't really outstall you.

    Burn Up helps most against Aegi and Koko (2HKO on shield and low HP investment Koko), but the problem with Burn Up is that you sacrifice your Fire typing for it. It's powerful but situational on a bulky mon so it really depends on what you hate more. I didn't take ES because it only helps against Sash Pheromosa, otherwise you need Adamant and CB/LO to OHKO it with ES.

    Weaknesses include rain teams and LO mons but I'm sure the latter can be overcome with a spread that I didn't concoct in 10 minutes. 12 Speed is simply to speed creep bulky Silvally and enemy Arcanine.
    jroxas and Nelson Tangela like this.
  24. 6tennis

    6tennis

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    378
    tmon was right mimikyu is too powerful
    4lexander3 and ethan06 like this.
  25. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    3,829
    NOVED did some laddering to see what's good and recorded it for us, go have a watch: Pheromosa looks stronk

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)