3v3 General Discussion

NOVED

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Okay guys, so if you've talked to me lately you'll know that I think that Azumarill is just bad now. But what do you think of maybe Sap Sipper Azumarill becoming the new standard? I haven't seen it at all yet, but theorymoning it seems like it might be able to fill a new niche.

With Sap Sipper, it pretty handily walls Tapu Bulu and Ferrothorn, as well as Breloom and Serperior. Most importantly, unlike traditional checks like Steel-types and other Grass-types, it resists their common coverage moves like Fighting and Fire.

It gets Perish Song and Scald which are great of course. It can even be a decent check to Charizard-Y (though I think in the sun it will still die to repeated Flamethrowers over time).
I think you're undervaluing Huge Power. Azu is still pretty sweet, even with sets that dont run belly drum. Huge power play roughs are scary and azu has a nice typing that threatens some things like volc, blaziken and char x. Without huge power azu is pretty meh. Theres better options to deal with those grass mons imo like mega venu, amoonguss and fire types, because they can also do nice things vs other stuff in the meta. Sap sipper set is just bad vs anything it doesnt outright counter. It can surprise some opps but surely wont be the standard set imo.
 

Hulavuta

rip kurt cocain
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I think you're undervaluing Huge Power. Azu is still pretty sweet, even with sets that dont run belly drum. Huge power play roughs are scary and azu has a nice typing that threatens some things like volc, blaziken and char x. Without huge power azu is pretty meh. Theres better options to deal with those grass mons imo like mega venu, amoonguss and fire types, because they can also do nice things vs other stuff in the meta. Sap sipper set is just bad vs anything it doesnt outright counter. It can surprise some opps but surely wont be the standard set imo.
Yeah that was a bit of hyperbole on my part, haha.

I agree with you on it being bad against most other things. But I think a niche set could prove effective on teams that want to check Grass-types in this way. I think the biggest problem is it is a bit too passive, Scald will not kill anything and Perish Song is not as effective without trapping.
 

NOVED

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Yeah that was a bit of hyperbole on my part, haha.

I agree with you on it being bad against most other things. But I think a niche set could prove effective on teams that want to check Grass-types in this way. I think the biggest problem is it is a bit too passive, Scald will not kill anything and Perish Song is not as effective without trapping.
Yeah its just nowhere near as consistent or splashable as Huge Power. On teams that desperating need to check certain grasses and fires i guess its ok. In BSSC maybe as a counter pick it could be somewhat reliable.
 
I can see it becoming a bit of a 50/50. Maybe more like a 70/30. Last gen it would be a massive surprise. Its definitely less so now.

But yes you made it clear that you think its tanked.
 

Theorymon

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I have been considering sap sipper Azumarill myself every since I saw a Japanese team use it to mess up my Ferrothorn a while ago.

TBH tho I actually still appreciate regular Azumarill on TR teams, if only because its slow and got a lot of power. The main set I dislike is the Belly Drummer now, I feel like Tapu Lele makes that too much of a liability. I just slap a Life Orb / Choice Band on it and call it a day now.
 

Hulavuta

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I have been considering sap sipper Azumarill myself every since I saw a Japanese team use it to mess up my Ferrothorn a while ago.

TBH tho I actually still appreciate regular Azumarill on TR teams, if only because its slow and got a lot of power. The main set I dislike is the Belly Drummer now, I feel like Tapu Lele makes that too much of a liability. I just slap a Life Orb / Choice Band on it and call it a day now.
Yeah, I really dislike Belly Drum now. There is pretty much nothing in the top 30 or so that it can set up on, and even then there are quite a few Pokemon that can revenge kill it, like Mimikyu and Tapu Lele as you mentioned. It also can't OHKO things like Mega Metagross with Aqua Jet. It's just far too much maintenance to get it in a sweeping position, especially as you have to conserve at least 51% HP in order to use Belly Drum, so that greatly limits your switch-ins. There are plenty of better sweepers that can fit the "1 turn set up" mold.

I definitely feel Choice Band is the way to go, so you can just come in and attack straight off. Also always helpful revenge kill things like Volcarona and Nihilego.
 
What do you think about M-Sharpedo ? I've been... kicked... by it in random battles. Btw what is the fastest way to check Protect + Speed Boost stuff ? Thx in advance.
 
Last edited:
http://nouthuca.com/topic/?code=g7s3single

Top rated teams for season 3 is now out! Was not expecting Gengar to be on most of the teams there of any pokemon. The increase in Primarina is pretty cool too. It also looks like the decline of Tapu Lele is starting to show? Not on many teams compared to last season.
How do you figure out the movesets? Google translate is doing a very poor job for me.
 
How do you figure out the movesets? Google translate is doing a very poor job for me.
I usually just put the Japanese word for said move in the search bar in google images. Most of the time it'll show pictures of the move itself or at least give some major hints as to what it might be (i.e. People taking cover under a table = Earthquake).
 

cant say

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How do you figure out the movesets? Google translate is doing a very poor job for me.
I usually just put the Japanese word for said move in the search bar in google images. Most of the time it'll show pictures of the move itself or at least give some major hints as to what it might be (i.e. People taking cover under a table = Earthquake).
I used to do this, but now I enter the Japanese word with 'Bulbapedia' into Google. They've got Japanese translations of everything so whatever the first result is usually works! Only time you get stuck is when they use their own slang in their blog, then you've gotta do the images thing or ask someone on PS/Discord lol
 

cant say

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Excuse me for double posting but I'm back with something cool. The Nouthuca blog posts the most common Pokemon that appear in the teams they post (2000+ ranking teams) so I compared it with the top 20 most used according to the official PGL stats (1600+ ranked battles).
  • BSS usage stats | Nouthuca stats | Movement
  1. Mimikyu | Gengar
    | +15
  2. Charizard | Landorus-T
    | +5
  3. Tapu Koko | Salamence
    | +2
  4. Tapu Lele | Tapu Koko
    | -1
  5. Salamence | Mimikyu
    | -4
  6. Garchomp | Celesteela
    | +13
  7. Landorus-T | Hippowdon
    | +10
  8. Aegislash | Charizard
    | -6
  9. Gyarados | Porygon2
    | +5
  10. Blaziken | Garchomp
    | -4
  11. Mamoswine | Kangaskhan
    | +17
  12. Ferrothorn | Volcarona
    | +10
  13. Tapu Fini | Aegislash
    | -5
  14. Porygon2 | Tapu Lele
    | -11
  15. Greninja | Metagross
    | +3
  16. Gengar | Primarina
    | +14
  17. Hippowdon | Gyarados
    | -8
  18. Metagross | Blaziken
    | -8
  19. Celesteela | Gliscor
    | +33
  20. Breloom | Tapu Fini
    | -7
Pokemon not in Nouthuca's top 20:


The big movers:
  • Mega Gengar being the top mon surprises me, I don't see it much on the ladder and haven't seen it in many BSSC teams either. Shadow Tag is an amazing ability, combine that with its crazy speed and you have something capable of revenge killing basically the whole meta. Trapping and eliminating threats for something to then sweep is huge too. I feel like we'll see more in BSSC4 for sure
  • Lando-T second makes sense to me, it's something I've been using a lot and is a sick catch-all defensive check with sweet mixed bulk. It's super versatile and can fill so many roles in a team (more often than not it's doing several at once). Rock Tomb is one of the best moves in the game (kinda like this gen's t wave in a way) and Lando is one of the best users too.
  • The meta may overall feel more specially-inclined, but the top end must be teeming with physical attackers because both Cele and Hippo get way more usage. Hippo + Mence/Kang is also really good and both those megas got usage boosts which would attribute to Hippo's usage. I always felt Cele was a bit underused in the general stats, but seeing more top players use it kinda reassures me that it's good and that I should bring it back into some of my squads.
  • Kang definitely got nerfed this gen but it seems as though top players are still pummeling through teams with it. Power-Up Punch giving +2 is still insane and with the coverage options Kang has (fire/ice punch / eq etc) and sucker punch, it sorta doesn't surprise me people are coming back to it.
  • Volcarona is so sick. I never really caught onto it during ORAS until the last couple seasons when its usage was peaking and I figured why not, and ever since I've been loving it. Its sheer power and unpredictability with the amount of Z moves it can run makes it so hard to check, and can fit on so many different teams.
  • Tapu Lele dropping down so much is honestly a shock, its one of the few mons I was easily convinced was S tier. It is a bit predictable so checking it isn't super hard anymore. It's also already dropped from 4th-6th from season 3-4 (yeah I know the season has only been going for a week but whatever) so maybe it really is on the decline.
  • NOVED has been hyping up Primarina for a while now and I guess he was right, top players seem to be using it really well (it's even on the number 1 team). This also explains Tapu Fini's drop off, which I was surprised about at first since I think it's super good and Misty Terrain is sick.
  • Gyara and Blaziken dropping down is another surprise, moreso Blaziken since I get bopped by it all the time lol. I thought Gyara dropping was pretty weird because of how well the mega set deals with Mimikyu, but top players are obviously resorting to defensive answers like Lando/Cele/Hippo by the looks of things.
  • GLISCOR! Where the fuck did this come from?? I don't even know what to think, I can't say I've even seen many of them, especially outside of stall teams, to make much of a comment. Stall teams are quite common at the top of the ladder though, and maybe Gliscor is more important to the strict framework those teams follow in teambuilding than things like, say, Chansey (Blissey) or Skarmory (Celesteela) are? idk. is there something Gliscor does that I'm blanking on because I really don't see the appeal in it.
What else do you guys see as noteworthy from these stats? Is something higher/lower than you expected?
 

Jhon

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Gliscor is just really good against things that are pretty good against stall.
Both SD and Sub-Toxic Aegi hate it, Gliscor is to some degree the only true Aegi counter. It blocks sleep, something that can be a huge pain otherwise. Common Volt-turn stuff can start to stumble against it too, think Koko+LandoT. Combine all that with heavy passive recovery, solid general typing and the ability to Sub-Protect easily, allowing both Toxic and PP stall.
Truly great mon on stall.
 
It doesn't surprise me to see Kang so high up in those high-rated teams. I haven't used her at all since s1, but she has an amazing movepool, combined with good stats and surprising bulk for an attacker. Parental Bond PuP still giving +2 is ridiculous, combined with her coverage options gives her the ability to deal with a large portion of the meta, and can be customized to fit your team's needs.
 

NOVED

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Maybe it's because I'm not that highly rated on the battle spot but I see so many blazikens. I suppose top tier teams don't use blaziken as much...?
Mega Blaziken was just recently released so I think a lot of people want to try it out right now. In some time it's usage will probably go down a bit more, thought dont expect it to go down too much as Blaziken is definitely a top tier mon.
 

Psynergy

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While they aren't exactly equals, Mega Salamence isn't very far ahead of stuff like Blaziken since the Ice and Fairy weaknesses are very exploitable in the 3v3 metagame. Blaziken's unpredictability and ability to effectively abuse Baton Pass makes it an incredibly dangerous threat especially now that its Mega is released, giving it a consistent middle-ground for its physical sets. I'd expect it to stay around the Top 10 like it has been though what you're seeing now is definitely a spike as a result of new toy syndrome.
 
Agreed with what Psynergy said. While I do believe Mega-mence is the better overall mon than (Mega) Blaziken, I don't particularly see the difference all that big. The difference in effectiveness is definitely there IMHO but it's not a world changer. I'd still much rather give the mega slot to something other than blaziken most of the times but the ability to outrun certain threats can come in handy...and it just makes blaziken that much more flexible. I don't think the differences between the top-tier pokemons are all that big to be honest (you may disagree with me here but that's what I truly believe).