3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread [The Pentagon is back!!]

Hulavuta

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#1
We had some delay but here it is! Keep all discussion of ORAS 3v3 Battle Spot singles to this thread.

What major differences have you noticed going from XY to ORAS? Any new Pokemon giving you major trouble? Any new Pokemon or moves helping you beat older staples like Kangaskhan and Aegislash? What do you think about the Pentagon rule?

Usage statistics are out now too on the Pokemon Global Link site, so feel free to discuss those as well.

As for me, I haven't been able to play much but Mega Slowbro has sort of stuck out to me and has given me a bit of trouble. It's yet another Pokemon where you have to work out whether or not it's mega, as both regular Slowbro and Mega Slowbro are pretty useful. When it's Mega Evolved, it has some pretty surprising power and an insane level of defense.
 

cant say

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#2
Mega Salamence's usage is much lower than I anticipated! When it was released we were talking about how it's going to be the new Kangaskhan etc etc, but it seems that there are plenty that counter / check it in the meta; Porygon2, Zapdos, Aegislash, Rhyperior(!)... I think birdspam has been well accounted for with Talonflame running around for the last year, and every team needs a check to Garchomp, so stopping M-Mence isn't anything new / hard it seems. The meta doesn't seem too different from XY, probably because we have the Tutors, Mirage Spots allow for catching good pentagon legendaries, and the ORAS megas aren't as strong as they were talked up to be. There also don't seem to be any transfer-only 'mons that are being particularly missed, I mean how many people actually used Seismic Toss Kangakhan, Sheer Cold Suicune or Eruption Heatran?

I for one really want to try M-Glalie but I'm having trouble working around its midling speed (base 100 isn't so good with Garchomp, the aforementioned Mega Salamence, Char-Y and all that running around). The appeal of that Refridgerate Explosion in 3v3 seems too good to pass up though...
 

Theorymon

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#3
So I got into this again recently at the end of last season. I got curbstomped pretty hard because of low quality teams and rustyness, but I did learn a lot at least!

Gonna have to agree with cant say's observation on Mega Salamence. Don't get me wrong, Mega Salamence is very deadly and its a pretty great mon (I myself like to use the Dragon Dance Facade set), but people often carry enough checks for the thing. It's actually fairly manageable!

I mentioned this in ther weird sets you use thread, but there is something sorta interesting about Mega Salamence: As it turns out, a full health Salamence can get clutch kills against Garchomp when it's not using Choice Band, as it has a good shot of surviving Life Orb Outrage with Intimidate + Mega Evolving. Because of this, I've been using a Naive Life Orb Garchomp with Draco Meteor. It's pretty much your average, every day LO Garchomp, but with Draco Meteor lol. Not only does it OHKO Mega Salamence, it also sometimes does over 50% to Rotom-W, and it avoids Rocky Helmet stuff, so its actually pretty cool!

By the way, Ive also tried out Greninja. Gunk Shot and Low Kick has made Greninja a lot more useful for me than it was in XY. Low Kick does a ton to Mega Kangaskhan, and Gunk Shot beats the crap out of Azumarill! That being said, it does still have a nasty habit of JUST missing out on KOs. Because of this, I plan on testing out Greninja on a sand team, and Greninja on a Stealth Rock team (or maybe even a Hail team if I feel crazy lol). Basicly, Greninja gets so close to KOing a lot of Pokemon that I wonder if just giving it a bit of extra support could make it SUPER deadly! Only thing is... Talonflame is gonna be a pain in the ass for Greninja unless I use the hardest to use support, Stealth Rock >_>
 
#4
Hey all. After a while, I'm returning to the battle spot competitive scenario. What's going on? Can someone show a brief competitive list of what's hot in the new metagame?

I'm thinking of using my old Weaknilluxe (Weak Armor Weakness Policy Vanilluxe) again just for the lulz.

Vanilluxe @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Weak Armor
Ev's some hp, max satk, some speed
Modest Nature
- Freeze Dry / Ice Beam
- Ice Shard
- Flash Cannon / Water Pulse / Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Fire (fighting/water)

Weird enough, but powerful sp attack leaves nothing to be desired. Breaks sashes with Ice Shard.
If you manage to get the weak armor buff, that's a nice bonus that often seal games.

bonus video code: FMJG-WWWW-WWW5-9ELM
 
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Hulavuta

Windy
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#5
By the way, Ive also tried out Greninja. Gunk Shot and Low Kick has made Greninja a lot more useful for me than it was in XY. Low Kick does a ton to Mega Kangaskhan, and Gunk Shot beats the crap out of Azumarill! That being said, it does still have a nasty habit of JUST missing out on KOs. Because of this, I plan on testing out Greninja on a sand team, and Greninja on a Stealth Rock team (or maybe even a Hail team if I feel crazy lol). Basicly, Greninja gets so close to KOing a lot of Pokemon that I wonder if just giving it a bit of extra support could make it SUPER deadly! Only thing is... Talonflame is gonna be a pain in the ass for Greninja unless I use the hardest to use support, Stealth Rock >_>
I was actually not very impressed with Greninja in XY but I totally forgot about his new moves. I might try him out again, and fortunately I have a Naive one too. Missing out on KOs was my biggest issue with him, I might try using Stealth Rock as well to use Skarmory again.
 
#6
Only because SR is the sub-topic right now. I've gotten some pretty solid use with Steelix as an SR layer. He absolutely walls all physical attackers and with Sturdy he is at the very least assured an SR setting. Gyro-ball is pretty solid (especially with 0 Spe IVs and a negative nature) against all but Aegislash. Explosion is a nice get out of dodge move and helps you bring back the momentum if someone is setting on you. I like the red-card on him for this fact actually, a lot of people see Steelix and think, "Oh? Stalling me ehh? I'll start setting up then for the sweep," Red-card nixes this serious threat. Last move is Curse to really get the most out of Gyro Ball, but Normal/Steel is seriously walled by a lot of the meta so EQ or something else works too.
 
#8
It baffles me how little I see Mega Slowbro in Battle Spot. Maybe I'm just not on at the right times or something, but I almost never find someone using one. A fully invested DEF & HP MegaBro, as is the set I'm running, is a nearly indestructible physical wall unless the opponent has prior boosts, and if MegaBro is running Amnesia (also like me), it's game over. Maybe it's because it loses regenerator.
 

Jibaku

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#9
http://markpoke.com/archives/5368.html

A little thread detailing the teams of a few 2.2k rating people. I can translate their EVs/nature if needed but rn I'm going to give a preview (these moves are not necessarily in their original order). Also my Japanese is terrible so all I can really translate are the Pokemon bits and not so much their description.

2215 Team
Latias @ Latiasite: Calm Mind/Substitute/Psyshock/Recover
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet: Power Whip/Gyro Ball/Leech Seed/Thunder Wave
Landorus-T @ Focus Sash: Earthquake/Rock Tomb/U-turn/Stealth Rock
Greninja @ Life Orb: Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot/Dark Pulse
Heatran @ Leftovers: Lava Plume/Toxic/Substitute/Protect
Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry: Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Hydro Pump/Will-o-Wisp

2210 Team
Greninja @ Focus Sash: Scald/Water Shuriken/Toxic Spikes/Toxic (Torrent)
Klefki @ Leftovers: Substitute/Protect/Swagger/Foul Play
Tyranitar @ Assault Vest: Stone Edge/Pursuit/Earthquake/Ice Beam
Venusaur @ Venusaurite: Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain/HP Fire/Leech Seed
Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf: Overheat/Volt Switch/HP Ice/Trick
Dusclops @ Eviolite: Night Shade/Pain Split/Will-O-Wisp/Skill Swap

2203 Team
Gengar @ Gengarite: Shadow Ball/Taunt/Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond
Suicune @ Rocky Helmet: Scald/Roar/Rest/Sleep Talk
Mamoswine @ Life Orb: Earthquake/Icicle Spear/Ice Shard/Knock Off
Charizard @ Charizardite X: Outrage/Flare Blitz/Flame Charge/Swords Dance
Sylveon @ Chesto Berry: Hyper Voice/Quick Attack/Calm Mind/Rest
Zapdos @ Leftovers: Discharge/Heat Wave/Thunder Wave/Roost

2202 Team
Mawile @ Mawilite: Play Rough/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Swords Dance
Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet: Psychic/Moonlight/Thunder Wave/Lunar Dance
Porygon2 @ Eviolite: Tri Attack/Shadow Ball/HP Ground/Trick Room
Aegislash @ Safety Goggles: Shadow Claw/Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak/Swords Dance
Rotom-W @ Choice Specs: Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Trick
Garchomp @ Choice Band: Outrage/Earthquake/Dual Chop/Sleep Talk

And thats all. Correct me if I missed a few translations
 
#10
http://markpoke.com/archives/5368.html

A little thread detailing the teams of a few 2.2k rating people. I can translate their EVs/nature if needed but rn I'm going to give a preview (these moves are not necessarily in their original order). Also my Japanese is terrible so all I can really translate are the Pokemon bits and not so much their description.

2215 Team
Latias @ Latiasite: Calm Mind/Substitute/Psyshock/Recover
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet: Power Whip/Gyro Ball/Leech Seed/Thunder Wave
Landorus-T @ Focus Sash: Earthquake/Rock Tomb/U-turn/Stealth Rock
Greninja @ Life Orb: Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot/Dark Pulse
Heatran @ Leftovers: Lava Plume/Toxic/Substitute/Protect
Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry: Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Hydro Pump/Will-o-Wisp

2210 Team
Greninja @ Focus Sash: Scald/Water Shuriken/Toxic Spikes/Toxic (Torrent)
Klefki @ Leftovers: Substitute/Protect/Swagger/Foul Play
Tyranitar @ Assault Vest: Stone Edge/Pursuit/Earthquake/Ice Beam
Venusaur @ Venusaurite: Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain/HP Fire/Leech Seed
Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf: Overheat/Volt Switch/HP Ice/Trick
Dusclops @ Eviolite: Night Shade/Pain Split/Will-O-Wisp/Skill Swap

2203 Team
Gengar @ Gengarite: Shadow Ball/Taunt/Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond
Suicune @ Rocky Helmet: Scald/Roar/Rest/Sleep Talk
Mamoswine @ Life Orb: Earthquake/Icicle Spear/Ice Shard/Knock Off
Charizard @ Charizardite X: Outrage/Flare Blitz/Flame Charge/Swords Dance
Sylveon @ Chesto Berry: Hyper Voice/Quick Attack/Calm Mind/Rest
Zapdos @ Leftovers: Discharge/Heat Wave/Thunder Wave/Roost

2202 Team
Mawile @ Mawilite: Play Rough/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Swords Dance
Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet: Psychic/Moonlight/Thunder Wave/Lunar Dance
Porygon2 @ Eviolite: Tri Attack/Shadow Ball/HP Ground/Trick Room
Aegislash @ Safety Goggles: Shadow Claw/Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak/Swords Dance
Rotom-W @ Choice Specs: Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Trick
Garchomp @ Choice Band: Outrage/Earthquake/Dual Chop/Sleep Talk

And thats all. Correct me if I missed a few translations
Clever. Japanese teams always have a little more unpredictability to them. They also seem to be the only people I find on Battle Spot nowadays, no matter what the time is.
 
#12
It baffles me how little I see Mega Slowbro in Battle Spot. Maybe I'm just not on at the right times or something, but I almost never find someone using one. A fully invested DEF & HP MegaBro, as is the set I'm running, is a nearly indestructible physical wall unless the opponent has prior boosts, and if MegaBro is running Amnesia (also like me), it's game over. Maybe it's because it loses regenerator.
That's because Mega Slowbro without Rest loses easily to toxic+taunt users, which I am starting to see a lot of use of.

On the other hand, why isn't RestTalk Mega Slowbro not used often? Is there a lot of phazers in the metagame, or is it b/c of the unaware users that I keep seeing online now? (Clefable, Quagsire, I've even seen Bibarel as well before).
 
#13
That's because Mega Slowbro without Rest loses easily to toxic+taunt users, which I am starting to see a lot of use of.

On the other hand, why isn't RestTalk Mega Slowbro not used often? Is there a lot of phazers in the metagame, or is it b/c of the unaware users that I keep seeing online now? (Clefable, Quagsire, I've even seen Bibarel as well before).
I think the reason we don't see too much of RestTalk is because Slowbro really wants to have 2 attacks (usually Scald/Psyshock). Not having either Calm Mind or Amnesia is suicide, as Special Attackers can easily take MegaBro down, but only having one of the attacks stated earlier means it's either resisted by Pokemon like Azumarill or Rotom Wash, or completely walled by dark types. It's 4 move syndrome. I doubt it's because of phazers, I have only seen a few, and I can't tell you the last time I saw an Unaware user.

On a side note, my Slowbro doesn't have to worry about toxic stall, because I have Heal Bell Chansey, almost forming a defensive core of sorts (Slowbro also covers Chansey's only weakness). It works surprisingly well, although it's usually Slowbro pulling the weight.
 

Jibaku

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#16
Ah I missed something

2208 Team:
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite: Double Edge/Earthquake/Ice Punch/Sucker Punch
Entei @ Choice Band: Sacred Fire/Stone Edge/Iron Head/Bulldoze
Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet: Discharge/HP Ice/Heat Wave/Roost
Gengar @ Focus Sash: Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Icy Wind/Destiny Bond
Azumarill @ Lum Berry: Waterfall/Play Rough/Superpower/Aqua Jet
Porygon2 @ Eviolite: Tri Attack/Shadow Ball/HP Ground/Thunder Wave
/
Also there's another page with 2100 rating teams
http://markpoke.com/archives/5404.html

2173 (2152 on the archive) Team:
Mawile @ Mawilite: Play Rough/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Swords Dance
Gyarados @ Lum Berry: Waterfall/Earthquake/Thunder Wave/Taunt
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers: Bullet Seed/Knock Off/Leech Seed/Protect
Rotom-H @ Sitrus Berry: Overheat/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Toxic
Garchomp @ Choice Band: Outrage/Dual Chop/Earthquake/Stone Edge
Gengar @ Gengarite: Hex/Sludge Bomb/Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond

2105 Team:
Blaziken @ Blazikenite: Flare Blitz/High Jump kick/Protect/Swords Dance
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf: Earthquake/Iron Head/Rock Slide/Horn Drill
Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry: Thunderbolt/Will-O-Wisp/Hydro Pump/Volt Switch
Whimsicott @ Leftovers: Moonblast/Substitute/Leech Seed/Encore
Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet: Psychic/Toxic/Thunder Wave/Moonlight
Gengar @ Gengarite: Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Destiny Bond/[Will-O-Wisp/Icy Wind/Substitute/Taunt/etc]

2105 Team (2): aka Smogon's worst nightmare
Umbreon @ Lax Incense: Foul Play/Moonlight/Double Team/Baton Pass
Klefki @ Leftovers: Substitute/Swagger/Thunder Wave/Foul Play
Espeon @ Brightpowder: Stored Power/Calm Mind/Morning Sun/Substitute
Charizard @ Charizardite Y: Flamethrower/Focus Blast/Solarbeam/HP Ice
Gengar @ Gengarite: Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Icy Wind/Focus Blast
Garchomp @ Focus Sash: Earthquake/Outrage/Stealth Rock/Rock Tomb

2100 Team:
Volcarona @ Lum Berry: Fire Blast/HP Ground/Giga Drain/Quiver Dance
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite: Fake Out/Double Edge/Ice Punch/Earthquake
Cresselia @ ROcky Helmet: Psychic/Ice Beam/Moonlight/Lunar Dance
Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf: Earthquake/Rock Tomb/Knock Off/U-turn (?)
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy: Shadow Ball/Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak/King's Shield
Suicune @ Chesto Berry: Scald/Roar/Calm Mind/Rest

2195 Team:
Chansey @ Eviolite: Seismic Toss/Minimize/Substitute/Softboiled
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet: Iron Head/Iron Defense/Stealth Rock/Roost
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry: Pursuit/Crunch/Earthquake/Roar
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb: Earthquake/Aerial Ace/Swords Dance/Protect
Slowbro @ Slowbronite Scald/Ice Beam/Iron Defense/Slack Off
Venusaur @ Venusaurite: Energy Ball/HP Fire/Leech Seed/Synthesis

2156 Team:
Gengar @ Gengarite: Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball/Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb: Substitute/Toxic/Earthquake/Guillotine
Klefki @ Leftovers: Foul Play/Thunder Wave/Substitute/Swagger
Slowbro @ Slowbronite: Scald/Ice Beam/Thunder Wave/Slack Off
Blissey @ Shed Shell: Seismic Toss/Ice Beam/Thunder Wave/Softboiled
Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry: Protect/Substitute/Leech Seed/Curse

2114 Team:
Gengar @ Gengarite: Sludge Bomb/Hex/Will-O-Wisp/Substitute
Klefki @ Leftovers: Foul Play/Thunder Wave/Magnet Rise/Swagger
Chesnaught @ Rocky Helmet: Hammer Arm/Wood Hammer/Leech Seed/Spiky Shield
Suicune @ Chesto Berry: Scald/Calm Mind/Roar/Rest
Thundurus @ Leftovers: Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Focus Blast/Thunder Wave
Excadrill @ Focus Sash: Earthquake/Iron Head/Rock Tomb/Toxic

Master (??):
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite: Double Edge/Fake Out/Earthquake/Ice Punch
Garchomp @ Choice Band: Outrage/Earthquake/Dual Chop/Fire Fang
Talonflame @ Rocky Helmet: Brave Bird/Will-O-Wisp/Roost/Taunt
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy: Shadow Ball/Flash Cannon/Shadow Sneak/King's Shield
Breloom @ Focus Sash: Bullet Seed/Rock Tomb/Mach Punch/Spore
Greninja @ Life Orb: Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/HP Fire/Surf
 
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ethan06

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is a Community Contributor Alumnus
#18
Apparently the Custap Berry has finally been released as a prize for the newest Global Link Attraction. I can see this leading to rise in Sturdy Pokémon like Gigalith, which can set rocks and then Explode, or at least get an extra attack in.
 

cant say

grumpy and stubborn
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#21
Apparently the Custap Berry has finally been released as a prize for the newest Global Link Attraction. I can see this leading to rise in Sturdy Pokémon like Gigalith, which can set rocks and then Explode, or at least get an extra attack in.
Plus generic Custap Wobb.
I came here to post both these things... I will definitely be using Wobbuffet now with this release. I'm already a big fan of the standard set but adding the Custap Destiny Bond seems pretty useful here. Custap Berry still loses to priority though so don't go trying to Destiny Bond a Talonflame or anything, but if you can account for common priority users then you can switch out and save the Berry for a clutch revenge kill
 
#22
Took me about seven games before getting a Custap Berry, but the prizes were a bit random (Got Petaya in both A and B, I believe). I got an A most of the time just in case though. And people seem to have gotten a Jaboca Berry in the other at D, so.
 
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CoolStoryBrobat

The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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#23
Weird trend, but apparently the 2000+ teams that Jibaku posted all tend to use some combination of Double-Edge / Earthquake / Ice Punch / filler on Mega Kangaskhan. Kinda interesting to me, to say the least, since I at least always thought the staple set was like... Fake Out or Power-Up Punch / Return or Double-Edge / Earthquake or Fire Punch / Sucker Punch at all times. Needless to say, you do get the perfect coverage with Earthquake + Ice Punch, and I can see the utility of both moves. I figured you'd be seeing some kind of mix of Flamethrower or Ice Beam like back in the old days
 
#24
Weird trend, but apparently the 2000+ teams that Jibaku posted all tend to use some combination of Double-Edge / Earthquake / Ice Punch / filler on Mega Kangaskhan. Kinda interesting to me, to say the least, since I at least always thought the staple set was like... Fake Out or Power-Up Punch / Return or Double-Edge / Earthquake or Fire Punch / Sucker Punch at all times. Needless to say, you do get the perfect coverage with Earthquake + Ice Punch, and I can see the utility of both moves. I figured you'd be seeing some kind of mix of Flamethrower or Ice Beam like back in the old days
A set I've been observing used by an upper ladder grinder this season runs the following:

Substitute
Power-Up Punch
Rock Slide
Unknown Fourth Move, possibly Sucker Punch

Simple enough. Sub on status attempts, PuP, and proceed to flinchhax to death.
 

Jibaku

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#25
I believe the main reason why people pick Rock Slide is to counter a common strategy against Kangaskhan - a bulky floating Pokemon with Rocky Helmet. Since Kangaskhan often lacks ways to hit them without resorting to somewhat redundant coverage, it'll be forced to make contact where it'll take heavy damage (esp w/ Double Edge recoil). With Rock Slide, however, Kangaskhan can now destroy Zapdos and Gyarados without risking its life, and can flinchax Cress to death (this is where Sub/PuP comes in) I guess.