3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread [The Pentagon is back!!]

[Meultima]

That's exactly it, yeah - It's a pretty nasty surprise for a lot of its checks. It doesn't quite 2hKO Cresselia though, even at +2, so it still sort of relies on the flinch or a critical hit to get the job done if Cress is packing Moonlight. (And you still need to use Power-Up Punch for the boost, so if they have Rocky Helmet you're still going to take some damage before it gets going).

On the flipside, pretty much the only option on standard bulky Cresselia that can even hope to break your subs is Psychic.

 

[Vizer]

http://markpoke.com/archives/5368.html

A little thread detailing the teams of a few 2.2k rating people. I can translate their EVs/nature if needed but rn I'm going to give a preview (these moves are not necessarily in their original order). Also my Japanese is terrible so all I can really translate are the Pokemon bits and not so much their description.

2215 Team
Latias @ Latiasite: Calm Mind/Substitute/Psyshock/Recover
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet: Power Whip/Gyro Ball/Leech Seed/Thunder Wave
Landorus-T @ Focus Sash: Earthquake/Rock Tomb/U-turn/Stealth Rock
Greninja @ Life Orb: Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot/Dark Pulse
Heatran @ Leftovers: Lava Plume/Toxic/Substitute/Protect
Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry: Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Hydro Pump/Will-o-Wisp

2210 Team
Greninja @ Focus Sash: Scald/Water Shuriken/Toxic Spikes/Toxic (Torrent)
Klefki @ Leftovers: Substitute/Protect/Swagger/Foul Play
Tyranitar @ Assault Vest: Stone Edge/Pursuit/Earthquake/Ice Beam
Venusaur @ Venusaurite: Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain/HP Fire/Leech Seed
Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf: Overheat/Volt Switch/HP Ice/Trick
Dusclops @ Eviolite: Night Shade/Pain Split/Will-O-Wisp/Skill Swap

2203 Team
Gengar @ Gengarite: Shadow Ball/Taunt/Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond
Suicune @ Rocky Helmet: Scald/Roar/Rest/Sleep Talk
Mamoswine @ Life Orb: Earthquake/Icicle Spear/Ice Shard/Knock Off
Charizard @ Charizardite X: Outrage/Flare Blitz/Flame Charge/Swords Dance
Sylveon @ Chesto Berry: Hyper Voice/Quick Attack/Calm Mind/Rest
Zapdos @ Leftovers: Discharge/Heat Wave/Thunder Wave/Roost

2202 Team
Mawile @ Mawilite: Play Rough/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Swords Dance
Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet: Psychic/Moonlight/Thunder Wave/Lunar Dance
Porygon2 @ Eviolite: Tri Attack/Shadow Ball/HP Ground/Trick Room
Aegislash @ Safety Goggles: Shadow Claw/Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak/Swords Dance
Rotom-W @ Choice Specs: Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Trick
Garchomp @ Choice Band: Outrage/Earthquake/Dual Chop/Sleep Talk

And thats all. Correct me if I missed a few translations

Thanks for these! Some of these teams are really strange, like the first one. I don't see people using the Latis, let alone as their sole mega. A mono Psychic attacking Latias no less, like the gen 5 SubCM Dragon Pulse set. There are a couple of scary Dark types I'd be concerned about with that set... I wonder if, at the top of the ladder, the metagame is different and people are playing teams designed to beat each other.

A set I've been observing used by an upper ladder grinder this season runs the following:

Substitute
Power-Up Punch
Rock Slide
Unknown Fourth Move, possibly Sucker Punch

Simple enough. Sub on status attempts, PuP, and proceed to flinchhax to death.

Where did you watch the player using that set? I wanna check out how the upper ratings compare to the upper-mid.

 

[Meultima]

Thanks for these! Some of these teams are really strange, like the first one. I don't see people using the Latis, let alone as their sole mega. A mono Psychic attacking Latias no less, like the gen 5 SubCM Dragon Pulse set. There are a couple of scary Dark types I'd be concerned about with that set... I wonder if, at the top of the ladder, the metagame is different and people are playing teams designed to beat each other.


Where did you watch the player using that set? I wanna check out how the upper ratings compare to the upper-mid.

http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/user/W-520-0061-Z/battle/

Dropped quite a bit from the last time, but still in the 2000s. You can browse the rest of the players, but most of the time they keep their history private. Understandable, but unfortunate.
(To check other players you can go to the official ladder website here. Clicking on their name brings up a link to their profile.)

Incidentally, that player also uses a CM Mega Latias, although it has Psyshock and Draco Meteor.

 

[Vizer]

http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/user/W-520-0061-Z/battle/

Dropped quite a bit from the last time, but still in the 2000s. You can browse the rest of the players, but most of the time they keep their history private. Understandable, but unfortunate.
(To check other players you can go to the official ladder website here. Clicking on their name brings up a link to their profile.)

Incidentally, that player also uses a CM Mega Latias, although it has Psyshock and Draco Meteor.

Thanks! I didn't know there was so much information on that site, if the players make it public.

 

[Theorymon]

Mega Kangaskhan in general has been sorta diversifying. In the past, I only saw Fake Out varients and Power Up Punch varients, now I see stuff like Rock Slide (which is annoying as hell), Ice Punch, I seem to see more mixed than I do in XY, and last season, I actually saw a Toxic Mega Kangaskhan, which screwed up my Cresselia lol.

Also, I find it interesting how Mega Salamence usage has been continuing to drop. People are preparing for it really hard I guess. Stuff like Porygon2 and Cresselia being staples makes Mega Salamence a lot more mangable than you'd think! I still love that thing though. I in particular like Facade Dragon Dance, since Salamence has a big "WoW me!" target on its back, and sometimes, I've actually swept people by switching Salamence into a burn!

In fact, I sorta want to try Facade on some other stuff this season. First on my list is Mega Mawile. People love WoWing that thing with mons like Rotom-W, and turns out, Facade does like 90%ish to it after a burn! I also sorta want to try out Facade Mega Lopunny, though admitly, Mega Lopunny has a serious case of 4 moveslot syndrome...

EDIT: Oh yeah about the really weird stuff like mono CM Mega Latias: when I feel like its easier to get away with that kind of stuff in 3v3 because you have to bench half your team anways, so its possible to run these clutch Pokemon that, while weak to huge threats, can be benched until you come across a kind of team you're targeting.

 

[Guilan]

Thanks for these! Some of these teams are really strange, like the first one. I don't see people using the Latis, let alone as their sole mega. A mono Psychic attacking Latias no less, like the gen 5 SubCM Dragon Pulse set. There are a couple of scary Dark types I'd be concerned about with that set... I wonder if, at the top of the ladder, the metagame is different and people are playing teams designed to beat each other.

A valid point, I think. They left all the Talonflame jank to people with low ratings.

 

[HydreigonIsOP]

Ive been noticing a lot of Mixed Blaziken's with Superpower, Overheat, HP Ice and Protect. Id have to assume its to better deal with Aegislash and Garchomp/Mence/Landorus. I might try it out myself, buts its still complete Talon, Azu and Chandy fodder. Especially Chandy since it can only hit you with a 30 BP move if you chose to run Flash Fire lol.

About that new Pentagon rule, it hasn't bugged me 1 bit, since i never had access to BW2 in the first place. Nice to see all those tutors tho. Finnaly i can get Knock Off Weavile!

 

[cant say]

Ive been noticing a lot of Mixed Blaziken's with Superpower, Overheat, HP Ice and Protect. Id have to assume its to better deal with Aegislash and Garchomp/Mence/Landorus. I might try it out myself, buts its still complete Talon, Azu and Chandy fodder. Especially Chandy since it can only hit you with a 30 BP move if you chose to run Flash Fire lol.

About that new Pentagon rule, it hasn't bugged me 1 bit, since i never had access to BW2 in the first place. Nice to see all those tutors tho. Finnaly i can get Knock Off Weavile!

Mixed Blaze is my favourite set for him, I prefer Low Kick to Superpower on him though. You're right that it sucks against those threats but that's what teammates are for. The biggest problem I think is Azumarill as you're inviting it to Belly Drum on you but Rotom-W stops all 3 of those things pretty handily aside from a Natural Gift from TFlame or Energy Ball from Chandy, so if you want to give mixed Blaze a shot I would recommend pairing him with that (I like the modest Trick-Scarf/Specs set personally)

 

[Meultima]

With the latest update for Singles on the PGL: That's Salamence out of the Top 12, folks! In the meanwhile, Landorus-T is poised to move in and take over its slot.

 

[freekhoorn]

With the latest update for Singles on the PGL: That's Salamence out of the Top 12, folks! In the meanwhile, Landorus-T is poised to move in and take over its slot.

Yeah and ferrothorn arrived! There are so many defensive pokemon in the top 12! That surely is a new thing with oras. Porygon, ferrothorn, aegislash (not all ar defensive of course), rotom-w, cresselia.

 

[Meultima]

Yeah and ferrothorn arrived! There are so many defensive pokemon in the top 12! That surely is a new thing with oras. Porygon, ferrothorn, aegislash (not all ar defensive of course), rotom-w, cresselia.

Most you named have been up there since the beginning of the season though...
Aegislash, Cresselia, Rotom-W in particular have been top 12 mainstays since the beginning. Although Porygon2 was only up there since last season, likely as a reaction to Salamence's ubiquity. And Ferrothorn did already show up at the beginning of this season. So yeah, defensive cores have always been popular in Battlespot, and the new Megas only served to reinforce their usefulness!

Edit: A 2000+ rating Japanese game player suddenly appeared on the USA Singles ladder... They're taking over! (((( ;°Д°))))

 

[rhythmic]

Hey guys. I'm about to start playing ranked 3v3 singles religiously on cart for the first time and I have a few questions regarding ZardX. What's the optimal spread and nature for a DDer in this meta? And since its 3v3, is roost still a better option over coverage moves like equake/thunder punch?

 

[Meultima]

It depends, really! Regular DD/Swords Dance + 3 Attacks Zard X is still pretty decent, but I've actually seen a bulky WoW/Flame Charge/Roost set that aims to whittle down a lot of its usual checks.

Still, let's see what the PGL statistics tell us:

Singles top 10 moveslots for Charizard:

1Solar Beam51.8%
2Flamethrower40.3%
3Outrage38.3%
4Overheat37.6%
5Focus Blast32.9%
6Flame Charge32.9%
7Flare Blitz29.8%
8Swords Dance23.4%
9Dragon Dance19.2%
10Thunder Punch16.5%
Other moves77.4%

Okay, so we can assume that Outrage, Flare Blitz, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and Thunder Punch are for CharX. While a mixed CharX -could- use some of those other moves, i.e. Overheat, it would be safe to assume that those are the best bets for a Charizard X, so you won't go wrong with choosing from those five.

 

[freekhoorn]

I would go for roost dragon dance flare blitz outrage, cause mega charizard x is bulky enough and has a pretty good defensive typing going for it. If you dont like getting locked into outrage for fairys you could go for dragon claw but i prefer the raw power of outrage. As for ev spread i do not know the best one actually, but max attack and then some investment in bulk would go rather well i suppose! Bulky offense is one of the best styles at the moment in my opinion.

 

[DragonWhale]

Moved the speed tier list here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-spot-speed-tiers.3530544/ because it wasn't limited to the singles metagame.

 

[Meultima]

So Nuggetbridge has implemented a VGC-based calculator here. It's handy for Battle Spot use since it auto-configures to Level 50.

Of course, it also auto-configures spread damage for Doubles, although clicking the 'Singles' button is easier than constantly changing the levels, at least.

 

[Guilan]

Unfortunately the calculator doesn't show us mega-stats.

 

[cant say]

Unfortunately the calculator doesn't show us mega-stats.

Yes it does, use the 'Forme' dropdown between 'Type' and 'Level'

 

[freekhoorn]

Im seeing a certain combo of hippowdon and mega lucario that a lot of japanese players use. Hippowdon has yawn and stealth rock and forces switches often and mega lucario cleans the rest with his special nasty plot set if you dont watch out so be sure to recognize it if you see that combo on a japanese player.

 

[Hulavuta]

Haven't played in a while so I hit the ladder for a few games today. I've been trying to use some new Pokemon, some worked, some didn't. I have bred so many new Pokemon and haven't played in a while so I'm trying to use them all, but they don't really go together too well; I should probably just create a bunch of teams around each one. First thing I've been really trying to use is Hippowdon, 'cause I've been really into Hippowdon recently.@freekhoorn, your post gave me a pretty good idea actually. I don't really use Lucario (don't have one yet) but I've been thinking of some other Pokemon who can go well with it. Any ideas?

 

[freekhoorn]

Haven't played in a while so I hit the ladder for a few games today. I've been trying to use some new Pokemon, some worked, some didn't. I have bred so many new Pokemon and haven't played in a while so I'm trying to use them all, but they don't really go together too well; I should probably just create a bunch of teams around each one. First thing I've been really trying to use is Hippowdon, 'cause I've been really into Hippowdon recently.@freekhoorn, your post gave me a pretty good idea actually. I don't really use Lucario (don't have one yet) but I've been thinking of some other Pokemon who can go well with it. Any ideas?

Well it depends on wich moves you run on your hippowdon. My hippowdon is just a simple physical wall with eq rock slide slack off and fire fang for scizor and ferrothorn. If you run yawn and stealth rock you will force switches more of course. I think any physical fragile setup pokemon could benefit from hippowdon so swords dance talonflame, or blaziken maybe? Or maybe gengar. Or something like spore breloom. Hippowdon will take care of rock pokemon for talonflame. Or mega mawile! Hippowdon will take care of fire types for mega mawile and mega mawile wont get hurt by sandstorm that hippowdon brings with it. I think mega mawile will be good.

 

[PPB]

Okay, so we can assume that Outrage, Flare Blitz, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and Thunder Punch are for CharX. While a mixed CharX -could- use some of those other moves, i.e. Overheat, it would be safe to assume that those are the best bets for a Charizard X, so you won't go wrong with choosing from those five.

Flame Charge is probably an X-Zard thing too; it seems to complement SD.

 

[Meultima]

Flame Charge is probably an X-Zard thing too; it seems to complement SD.

Ah yeah, nice catch. I missed that for some reason.

 

[DragonWhale]

ZardX just surpassed ZardY in usage too. According to Japanese discussion boards >2000 is filled with ZardX users right now.

Here's hoping more Azus show up to stop this. My team is kinda weak to ZardX :P

 

[freekhoorn]

ZardX just surpassed ZardY in usage too. According to Japanese discussion boards >2000 is filled with ZardX users right now.

Here's hoping more Azus show up to stop this. My team is kinda weak to ZardX :P

Are you that high on the ladder ?